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Help: Advice needed. Brian Gavin Diamonds holding onto Refund

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
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I don’t think anyone should be discouraged from posting about their positive or negative customer experiences pertaining to diamond vendors (and no one should ‘jump’ those who do); it does help others understand the level of service associated with a particular vendor when considering where to spend their money.

I also don’t think someone should post about their experience and blur the very-relative facts about not following the vendor’s procedures/process while complaining the vendor isn’t potentially acting ethically.

Lack of transparency - whether from the vendor or the buyer - doesn’t help anyone.
 

whitewave

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I don’t think anyone should be discouraged from posting about their positive or negative customer experiences pertaining to diamond vendors (and no one should ‘jump’ those who do); it does help others understand the level of service associated with a particular vendor when considering where to spend their money.

I also don’t think someone should post about their experience and blur the very-relative facts about not following the vendor’s procedures/process while complaining the vendor isn’t potentially acting ethically.

Lack of transparency - whether from the vendor or the buyer - doesn’t help anyone.

Completely this^^^^^ second paragraph spot on.
 

yssie

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Threads like this follow a pattern. They have for as long as I’ve been on PS:
1. OP posts something controversial about a beloved vendor
2. Sympathetic posts roll in and OP is made to feel better that his position is justified
3. Differing opinions start to emerge and debate between posters (other than OP) begins
4. Someone decides to toss decency to the wind (@AdaBeta27, please feel free to keep your thoroughly distasteful opinions on how much money “shouldn’t be too much for someone” to yourself in future)
5. Discussion over dissenting opinions continues until either OP either locks the thread or leaves PS, or community interest wanes.

The “discussion” portion is helpful to new consumers but IMO mostly just stressful for the OP. @Katty01Kat I think you might benefit from a short break from PS - you aren’t going to get more from this thread. Certainly not until there is activity on your side.

FWIW I think @whitewave makes a very good point re. pausing on any action until the original seller provides explicit instructions. And BIG ditto to @the_mother_thing’s comment about getting T&C in writing prior to sale.
 
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gm89uk

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Here is a helpful tip: when dealing with expensive items such as a 2.35 H vs diamond, NEVER do anything to it without receiving return instructions from the vendor.

I certainly agree with this, and yes the thread was posted very soon in the process.

The bottom line is, BGD dished out drama and they got drama back.

If you're going to use accusatory language with your customer based on no facts, it's going to invoke an inflammatory reaction. BGDs response regarding the stone would make anyone worry and seek further advice.

If BGD said 'as the stone was unmounted by another vendor, it is our standard procedure to resend the stone to AGS, this may extend the time frame for receiving the refund based on their confirmation the stone is in its original condition',
without all the drama about trying to withhold an addition $180 and claiming the stone is marked up, sure the OP may be irritated by the delay but I doubt the same redflag alarm bells will be ringing as they have been.

Given the attitude of responses I also certainly understand the time frame of posting for help.
 

srke

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One of the things I look for when buying online is the refund /return policy and the ease of such a process. Especially for such a high value purchase, I would feel far more relaxed about buying something online, (sight unseen apart from photos that never fully communicate the reality of what your eyes will perceive) , if I know I can change my mind should it not work out when I have it in hand.

Of course different vendors might have different ideas about whether they want to acquire customers that will buy and then return items. Obviously it hurts their bottom line if they end up doing a lot of work for nothing.
On the other hand, especially if you want to promote your online business, you might need to be willing to eat some of those costs if it will win over people that want the peace of mind of knowing there won't be *drama* if anything happens or if they change their mind.

I can understand why any vendor might feel a bit terse if they lose a sale and then have to go to all the work of checking the item, restocking, processing a refund, etc.. Especially if they made some decisions on pricing of the setting that they didn't fully discuss, thinking they were getting a diamond sale to offset that cost, and then regretting those calls come time for the return.

But as a buyer, I can see how I would also feel really, really worried and be really annoyed if I got a response I didn't expect when requesting what the vendors website seem to suggest would be a simple return process , with the vendor going as far as actively questioning the condition of the item I
returned. Saying that it was filthy really seemed unnecessary ( seriously what's wrong with a standard non accusatory spiel like "our normal procedure is to recert any stone that has left our custody/did not get unmounted by us/insert reason here, and we'll process a refund as soon as AGS can confirm no damage, we will try to expedite with AGS, usual eta approx a week" )... And with what the vendor implied with that statement, i think it would make anyone worry about the status of their refund and start to think about their options should the vendor become recalcitrant.

Ultimately as a customer, as much as I can sympathise with the vendor's POV, when choosing where to buy from I would take heavily into consideration the ease with which I am able to get refunds or have problems addressed. And online vendors who want to court customers probably should also take that into account when formulating their approach to customer service.
 

AdaBeta27

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...
4. Someone decides to toss decency to the wind (@AdaBeta27, please feel free to keep your thoroughly distasteful opinions on how much money “shouldn’t be too much for someone” to yourself in future)
Oh, come now. Many people have "tossed decency to the wind" on Pricescope. Some, QUITE frequently and yet they are still around. And usually, nobody bucks them, particularly not the long-suffering PS vendors who get dragged through the social media muck over something relatively trivial. But you and I have been on opposite sides of issues before, and I am completely comfortable with that. For every little Pricescoper who lurks here and occasionally speaks up, there are dozens more who got their diamond and got out because there is no room for them in here.
 

Johnbt

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"and got out because there is no room for them in here."

There's plenty of room. Endless room in fact, unless the server chokes. But it's a discussion forum on the internet and forums are not for the fainthearted. It takes a certain amount of gumption to make a post on a public forum and wait for the world to react. Or overreact.

I've been on forums since modems were measured in hundreds of bps. This one is almost too polite and that's refreshing.

The vendors love it all. It's free advertising. :wavey:
We might be talking bad about them, but we are talking about them. :$$):
 

mwilliamanderson

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"and got out because there is no room for them in here."

There's plenty of room. Endless room in fact, unless the server chokes. But it's a discussion forum on the internet and forums are not for the fainthearted. It takes a certain amount of gumption to make a post on a public forum and wait for the world to react. Or overreact.

I've been on forums since modems were measured in hundreds of bps. This one is almost too polite and that's refreshing.

The vendors love it all. It's free advertising. :wavey:
We might be talking bad about them, but we are talking about them. :$$):

This is brilliant!
 

sledge

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Hoping you find quick and diplomatic resolve soon @Katty01Kat. As you forge ahead, I would encourage you to keep the following things in mind:

1. You have resolved the $250 issue. Win. :cool2:

2. Although you seek a specific date when AGS will re-verify the stone, is that a reasonable ask? BGD only has power to influence, not control AGS and their employees. At this point, BGD has committed to use their influence to help expedite the matter on your behalf. Win. :cool2:

3. If you haven't already, then contact @Wink and let him know what is going on. He will likely work with you to keep the stone on hold until your funds are freed and you can move forward with that transaction. Knowing that is in-place may relieve some of the pressure/stress you are feeling. Also, it gives him a chance to brace for impact should something negative come of the deal. Picking a quality vendor and doing the right thing always feels good. Win. :cool2:

4. In the future, try to avoid dragging a 3rd party into the mix of a return if possible. As you are learning, things can get messy. Lessons learned help strengthen our futures. Win. :cool2:

5. Be diligent, but also be mindful of time and the difference between business and calendar days. Understandably, you are anxious to resolve this matter as it's a large sum of money and prevents you from moving on. But in the big picture, you are still tracking within a reasonable time period. Win. :cool2:

6. Try to envision what another week or so ahead will look like -- this will be behind you, a refund will be issued and HPD will be in the process of getting things going on your new stone. Win. :cool2:
 

distracts

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If it's such a trial, I would assume they are free to disassociate themselves from PS.

I would actually post on PS much more if there were no "preferred vendors."

There are sponsors, and then there are vendors PSers like. These are often two pretty different things. People are allowed to have their preferences. BGD is a “preferred vendor” in the sense that that have history on this forum, produce super-ideal cuts, and many people like them. They aren’t a sponsor of the site though. You can’t exactly STOP people from preferring certain vendors and recommending them.
 

yssie

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Eschewing trade support is the last thing the PS community should be doing.

All the consumer discussion in the world can’t provide the insight, education, and history that our tradepeople have generously shared with the public via these fora for two decades.
 

the_mother_thing

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Eschewing trade support is the last thing the PS community should be doing.

All the consumer discussion in the world can’t provide the insight, education, and history that our tradepeople have generously shared with the public via these fora for two decades.

AMEN! :clap::clap: I have learned SOOOO much from the trade members who post on PS. Granted, some of it goes well above my head, but they’re always happy to clarify questions and share insight freely that most of us otherwise wouldn’t have access to know/learn. For instance, David (DBL) took the time to get clarification re: GIA reports issued before a diamond inscription is applied. That tidbit alone might have saved a consumer/s from potentially buying something that might have been misrepresented. If someone doesn’t like reading trade members post, ignore them. But PS would NOT be the same nor offer the same experience and value to consumers without them, IMO.
 

vintageloves

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I guess I have a very different viewpoint. I'm super uncomfortable with the way this board basically seems to exist to funnel business to its tradespeople. I almost had my engagement stone needlessly "recut" because of this kind of pressure funnel. I've had enough bad experience and shoddy results from the "preferred vendors" here that I have a hard time believing the recommendations are organic.

If other people are happy with this system, I'm happy for them. But I think a consumer-only board would be preferable. I want real opinions from real people (and, no, I don't believe what I see here is real). I'm well aware I can leave if I don't like it (which I mostly have).
 

lovedogs

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I guess I have a very different viewpoint. I'm super uncomfortable with the way this board basically seems to exist to funnel business to its tradespeople. I almost had my engagement stone needlessly "recut" because of this kind of pressure funnel. I've had enough bad experience and shoddy results from the "preferred vendors" here that I have a hard time believing the recommendations are organic.

If other people are happy with this system, I'm happy for them. But I think a consumer-only board would be preferable. I want real opinions from real people (and, no, I don't believe what I see here is real). I'm well aware I can leave if I don't like it (which I mostly have).

I'm honestly confused here. How do you think that we aren't real people? Do you think we all secretly work for the vendors on these boards? I assure you that I don't, and that I have always spoken honestly about my dealings with all vendors.

There are other people here who haven't had the best experiences with some of the often recommended vendors (IDJ, BGD, VC, and even WF). Bad experiences happen, and it's how a business handles them that I think speaks volumes. It doesn't mean that the bad experiences are somehow invalid (any more than it means that positive experiences are invalid). Sometimes companies drop the ball. But that doesn't imply that the rest of us are lying or "Fake".
 

diamondseeker2006

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I value consumer reviews, personally. I believe someone who has bought from a vendor and likes the product. (Just as I determine whether I can work with a vendor who has had negative reviews or not.) I read reviews on Amazon and check reviews elsewhere, as well. It's much safer buying anything online when you can get recommendations from people who actually have bought and seen or used a product. And I take into consideration that almost every vendor will have a dissatisfied customer once in awhile.

@vintageloves I am not sure why you think we aren't "real people" here. I've been around a long time and have been to multiple PS get-togethers and have seen real PS members/consumers who have bought the actual items they post on here. There are plenty of long term members here who consider diamonds and jewelry a hobby. Some of us are repeat customers and fans of certain vendors, true. However, anyone is free to recommend stones to someone asking for help. I am not sure how the forum would function if consumers couldn't recommend vendors they have found reliable and who have fine quality products. The vendors are strictly not allowed to promote their own products. I think this forum is about as well balanced as it possibly could be.

@lovedogs posted while I was writing slowly! So mine is pretty similar!
 

chamois

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I guess I have a very different viewpoint. I'm super uncomfortable with the way this board basically seems to exist to funnel business to its tradespeople. I almost had my engagement stone needlessly "recut" because of this kind of pressure funnel. I've had enough bad experience and shoddy results from the "preferred vendors" here that I have a hard time believing the recommendations are organic.



If other people are happy with this system, I'm happy for them. But I think a consumer-only board would be preferable. I want real opinions from real people (and, no, I don't believe what I see here is real). I'm well aware I can leave if I don't like it (which I mostly have).

Customer reviews are super important to my husband and I, we research the heck out of anything we are looking to spend our hard earned money on, that is why I joined PS over ten years ago when we were in the market for a diamond. We also want the customer service to be excellent in every possible way too. I am a real person.
 

LLJsmom

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It’s been a while since I’ve read a thread about real issues. All of this is good info.
@Katty01Kat I am very confident you will get your full refund relatively soon. I am very excited for your CBI. I am sure it will be stunning. :dance:
What @gm89uk said about “dishing out drama and getting it back” is the TRUTH!! cracked me up!!! I hope it was one of their more junior sale a people that talked to you about your stone being “dirty”. How both ridiculous and hilarious and insulting that is. Dust can make a stone dirty. Like you should buy that excuse? As @yssie said, uhhhhh....someone give me the ultrasonic. Damn. Give that precious rock a whole MINUTE in there. Heck. Go crazy and add some Mr. Clean to that bad boy. Yes sending to AGS is completely reasonable but being petty and unprofessional about it is completely disappointing, especially from BGD. But in the end you’ll get your money.

I hope BGD does some serious in-house retraining here. Don’t want this one bad rep cause all this unnecessary drama and bad press for their company.
 

yssie

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I guess I have a very different viewpoint. I'm super uncomfortable with the way this board basically seems to exist to funnel business to its tradespeople. I almost had my engagement stone needlessly "recut" because of this kind of pressure funnel. I've had enough bad experience and shoddy results from the "preferred vendors" here that I have a hard time believing the recommendations are organic.

If other people are happy with this system, I'm happy for them. But I think a consumer-only board would be preferable. I want real opinions from real people (and, no, I don't believe what I see here is real). I'm well aware I can leave if I don't like it (which I mostly have).

PS is a microcosm. We have trends, we have majority quora, we have community zeitgeist. That context is the result of two decades of consumer and trade interactions - I don’t know how many people have passed through PS, in consumer or trade capacity, but I’d assume tens of thousands, at least.

We have consumers who’ve become tradepeople thanks to this board. Those people change their PS badges and announce their trade status publicly. We have consumers who’ve developed personal and professional relationships with tradepeople thanks to this board - I consider myself lucky to call people like John, Vera, David, Grace, Wink, Caysie friends.

I think it’s natural that vendors with significant presence here on PS tend to get more referrals from PS consumers: They’ve got face more time with PS consumers and they’ve earned their reputations by working with PS consumers. From the vendor perspective - paying PS a boatload of money to advertise doesn’t guarantee referrals, and not paying PS anything doesn’t result in PS disfavour. And consumers that are found to be trade on the sly are given the (prompt) boot. If this board was consumer-only I think most RT regulars would leave because honestly it’d just be the blind leading the blind.

All that said, if you’re uncomfortable then others probably are too and just aren’t saying it.

I looked through your threads, and I do remember a few of them. From your thread history it seems like you’ve had a slew of mediocre experiences... and we know that mediocre plus mediocre plus mediocre X times over equals “overall negative impression”. I didn’t see references to shoddy results, but of course we don’t all post about absolutely everything we do! The one thing I will say is that as a newcomer it’s easy to get caught up in the PS latest and greatest - I fell into that trap at first too. Your pearls post in particular struck me as exactly what I myself experienced - I saw threads here on Tahitians, I bought Tahitians (from the same vendor as you), I was thoroughly unimpressed. Now, a few years later, I know a lot more about pearls and I know a lot more about what I want to see in my pearls, and the Tahitians I just bought (from the same vendor, again) make me happy every time I see them :)) but getting to this point took time and trust.

One of PS’ goals is certainly to inspire trust. A lot of us have been around for a long time, so we know the people behind the screen names, and we’re protective of this forum and what it represents. What do you think could be changed - without removing trade presence - to make you comfortable without demanding that you spend that sort of time here?
One thought - @psadmin Is the Testinonials forum consumer-only?
 

the_mother_thing

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... I think a consumer-only board would be preferable. I want real opinions from real people (and, no, I don't believe what I see here is real).

:confused: If you don’t think those of us (non-trade members) who post on PS are ‘real’ in what we share about our own experiences, what would be left for you to read on PS if you don’t believe what ‘we’ post, and trade members were to leave?

Reviews are very important to me when making online purchases, as others noted above feel the same. But many (other) places’ reviews are simply 1-5 stars with little if any commentary. Those are the ‘reviews’ I trust the least because a lot of businesses offer incentives to buyers to go on Google, Yelp & such to give a rating/review, so people just go tap a button to get their ‘incentive’, and they’re gone. Reviews & experiences like those shared on PS - with details, background, commentary, etc. - are beyond helpful because not only do you learn more about the item being discussed, but you understand the situation - good or bad - that truly defines the ‘recommendation’ or ‘warning’ about doing business with that company.

Just a heads up that I’ll be soon writing a thread/review sharing my recent upgrade experience, which was not just a ‘routine trade-up’. You may find that it’s ‘not believable’ given how far ‘above & beyond’ WF went for me as a customer, but I assure you - some of the vendors people post about on here really & truly do live up to and exceed the reputations they have and for which they are regularly recommended; and it’s experiences like mine that solidify why some customers have such loyal relationships to those vendors and do freely and frequently recommend them.
 

Laila619

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@Katty01Kat , don't worry too much! I'm confident you will get your refund soon.

Can I ask, if I may, why you had HPD unmount the stone instead of just sending the entire ring back to BGD for them to unmount? Just curious, not judging. Was it to save additional shipping costs or something?
 

psadmin

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One thought - @psadmin Is the Testinonials forum consumer-only?

Hi Yssie,

That is the intent of the Testimonial forum. If anyone sees anything questionable please click on the "Report Concern" link in the post to let us know.
 

TODiamonds

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I guess I have a very different viewpoint. I'm super uncomfortable with the way this board basically seems to exist to funnel business to its tradespeople. I almost had my engagement stone needlessly "recut" because of this kind of pressure funnel. I've had enough bad experience and shoddy results from the "preferred vendors" here that I have a hard time believing the recommendations are organic.

If other people are happy with this system, I'm happy for them. But I think a consumer-only board would be preferable. I want real opinions from real people (and, no, I don't believe what I see here is real). I'm well aware I can leave if I don't like it (which I mostly have).

You're not the only one who feels this way. PS is what it is - fantastic resource for knowledge and expertise (probably the best online) - but don't come looking for practical, unbiased views that would apply to the average everyday consumer. I don't believe anybody here is purposely manipulative or incentivized to direct business... they've just been around so long that they don't realize they are living in a bubble, have developed allegiances and loyalty to certain vendors, or otherwise have lost touch with reality. And of course that doesn't go for everyone on PS, there are still plenty of grounded, candid folks who give practical advice.
 
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cmd2014

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I think the challenge here sometimes is that people do start to develop relationships with certain vendors and consider them friends...and can become very defensive when someone else doesn't have the same experience with those vendors.

I also know that there are some people who are considered VIP's by some vendors. This is for a good reason. These are the people who are repeat customers, who have formed personal relationships with the vendors, who have made many in-person visits to the stores, and the like - and I suspect that they get a level of service that reflects this. The challenge is that the rest of us non-VIP one-time buyers hear about these experiences and come to expect the same treatment based on the information provided here, and this is just not realistic. I know that was my personal experience. And then I realized that it wasn't reasonable for me to expect VIP service like what was being described by certain regular customers on some of the sub-forums I frequented, because I'm not a VIP. Let's face it, buying one relatively modest item is not the same as buying big ticket items on a regular basis like some here are blessed to be able to do, and you're not going to be treated the same. That's not to say you'll be treated poorly, but it won't be as solicitous as it would be for a regular customer. That's ok, but I do think it factors into people's differing thoughts about purchase experiences sometimes.
 

missy

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I think the challenge here sometimes is that people do start to develop relationships with certain vendors and consider them friends...and can become very defensive when someone else doesn't have the same experience with those vendors.

I also know that there are some people who are considered VIP's by some vendors. This is for a good reason. These are the people who are repeat customers, who have formed personal relationships with the vendors, who have made many in-person visits to the stores, and the like - and I suspect that they get a level of service that reflects this. The challenge is that the rest of us non-VIP one-time buyers hear about these experiences and come to expect the same treatment based on the information provided here, and this is just not realistic. I know that was my personal experience. And then I realized that it wasn't reasonable for me to expect VIP service like what was being described by certain regular customers on some of the sub-forums I frequented, because I'm not a VIP. Let's face it, buying one relatively modest item is not the same as buying big ticket items on a regular basis like some here are blessed to be able to do, and you're not going to be treated the same. That's not to say you'll be treated poorly, but it won't be as solicitous as it would be for a regular customer. That's ok, but I do think it factors into people's differing thoughts about purchase experiences sometimes.

Absolutely true. However in an ideal world all vendors would treat all customers equally wonderful. Makes good business sense. But of course in the real world this is more the exception to the rule. Which is why one should take all recommendations with a grain of salt and use their head when deciding from whom to make a purchase. The responsibility is on the individual making the purchase and not the person making the recommendation.
 

cmd2014

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Absolutely true. However in an ideal world all vendors would treat all customers equally wonderful. Makes good business sense. But of course in the real world this is more the exception to the rule. Which is why one should take all recommendations with a grain of salt and use their head when deciding from whom to make a purchase. The responsibility is that of the individual making the purchase and not the person making the recommendation.

I think the vendors do try. But I think of it like the Starbucks by my office. I have gone in every single day M - F for 9 years. They know my name. They know my order. They start my order when I walk in, because I get the same thing every time, and it's ready for me by the time I get to the counter. They have inside jokes with me. So while they are polite and friendly and helpful to everyone, there's that little special extra that I get from being known as a repeat customer. This is just natural and happens everywhere. Here too. I think it's good for people to consider this, and not expect a vendor to do things for them like they might do for a very good repeat customer. Like ship very expensive, unpaid for items on spec for people to look at and decide what they like best, like one of the pearl vendors does for one of their very best customers - which would be INSANE to do with some random person off the internet that you did not know.
 

missy

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I think the vendors do try. But I think of it like the Starbucks by my office. I have gone in every single day M - F for 9 years. They know my name. They know my order. They start my order when I walk in, because I get the same thing every time, and it's ready for me by the time I get to the counter. They have inside jokes with me. So while they are polite and friendly and helpful to everyone, there's that little special extra that I get from being known as a repeat customer. This is just natural and happens everywhere. Here too. I think it's good for people to consider this, and not expect a vendor to do things for them like they might do for a very good repeat customer. Like ship very expensive, unpaid for items on spec for people to look at and decide what they like best, like one of the pearl vendors does for one of their very best customers - which would be INSANE to do with some random person off the internet that you did not know.

Yes, you are right @cmd2014, just like with everything in life. It is all about relationships and connections and we cannot force those. Loyalty is earned. Respect is earned. However I could do without the niceties and just want fair and equal treatment but it is too much to expect of most vendors. Some do try and succeed so I know it can be done but some play obvious favorites. And while your analogy rings true and yes Starbucks is expensive lol when we are discussing diamonds it is on a whole other level. It is good to be wary and smart.
 

Rose-gold-or-bust

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I am most likely to become a repeat customer if I’m treated well from the first interaction, regardless of how much I plan on spending. In fact, I regularly buy a small purchase first and see how it is handled before considering using a vendor for something larger or more expensive. If the small transaction shows good customer service, I’m much more likely to return
 

distracts

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I guess I have a very different viewpoint. I'm super uncomfortable with the way this board basically seems to exist to funnel business to its tradespeople. I almost had my engagement stone needlessly "recut" because of this kind of pressure funnel. I've had enough bad experience and shoddy results from the "preferred vendors" here that I have a hard time believing the recommendations are organic.

If other people are happy with this system, I'm happy for them. But I think a consumer-only board would be preferable. I want real opinions from real people (and, no, I don't believe what I see here is real). I'm well aware I can leave if I don't like it (which I mostly have).

I don’t know how often you visit the boards, but over time you can definitely see preferred vendors change. I took a several year PS break and in that time David Klass went from controversial figure to PS darling, and I’ve seen the falls of several one-time favorites. I’m not sure why all this would have been manufactured, or to what end. I’m not sure PS is even a big/influential enough venue for it to matter who is loved here or not - certainly the jewelers who are no longer recommended or weren’t ever recommended on here don’t seem to be suffering.

The board exists for people to give advice and recommendations. It does have a bit of an echo-chamber effect where no one goes out on a limb with new jewelers and recommends the same people over and over again - but there’s a reason for that. These are EXPENSIVE purchases, all the regulars are picky buyers, and if you get the wrong thing in terms of design or crappy quality, you often can’t get your money back. So people aren’t willing to risk new jewelers when they can go to the same ones other people have had good experiences with. I’d love it if we got some “new blood” in terms of vendors but it requires either new people posting and recommending THEIR jewelers, or regulars going out on a limb with someone new.

You're not the only one who feels this way. PS is what it is - fantastic resource for knowledge and expertise (probably the best online) - but don't come looking for practical, unbiased views that would apply to the average everyday consumer. I don't believe anybody here is purposely manipulative or incentivized to direct business... they've just been around so long that they don't realize they are living in a bubble, have developed allegiances and loyalty to certain vendors, or otherwise have lost touch with reality. And of course that doesn't go for everyone on PS, there are still plenty of grounded, candid folks who give practical advice.

Regulars here by definition are not the average everyday consumer - if we were, we wouldn't be on a jewelry forum in the first place. If people want average, everyday advice, they can walk into any jewelry store or appraiser or ask their friends or reddit or wherever. PS is for specialized advice for discerning consumers and I think that's good, because not many places like that exist online, especially for jewelry. People posting also always have the option of saying they don't care about a superideal or ideal cut and just want to get a reasonable diamond and setting from their local jeweler, or whatever, and that people replying should stay within those options. I DO think PS has gotten more militant about not being ok with those options than they were several years ago, but it's mostly newer people doing that rather than the old regulars. One thing that does bug me - I rarely see stock settings like Gabriel & Co, Beverly K, or Simon G recommended anymore - everyone says to go custom all the time, which is a level of stress and decision-making I think most people don't want. BUT I also think that as forums in general become more old-school, PS traffic is not what it used to be and far fewer people are coming for advice (or maybe just browsing?) so it's also tilted that way into people who are really more concerned about getting the best versus people who just want a good-enough ring.
 
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