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"Hearts and Arrows" Facet pattern on Square Cushion Cut

ResearchAddictNoob

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 18, 2016
Messages
6
:wavey: Hello to the amazing PriceScope community! I have been a lurker on here absorbing info for 2 months or so, and I am grateful to all of you experts- Especially to the one they call... RHINO!! thanks for the great videos!

Anyways,

***Preface****After much research, I decided that Cut was more important to me than Color, that I was okay with going down to SI1 if needed, and that I was okay with going with to G color. I was torn between a Round for the brilliance and fire that is so common, and the Cushion cut which is my girlfriends preference according to her Pinterest. So- I found that there is a cut called Cushion Modified Brilliant, where the facet patterns look similar to a Hearts and Arrows facet pattern on Round diamonds. Price range is $5-6000 for the diamond. ****Preface

********TLDR; Long story short, I found everything that I wanted except the diamond was an H color. It faced up beautifully, and was very white without being set in the rose gold setting. Once I received it, the yellowness did bother me a bit.

Here is the diamond i bought already: https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...t/1.02-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-1923844

Here it is set, beautiful falling edge halo in rose gold.
img_1287.jpg



I love everything about it, except the color. :wall:

Found another diamond that is very similar, this time with 3% more table, .02 less Carats, less clarity but only a tiny mark on the face (VS1), but with G color instead of H. I know that face up you cant really tell the difference, but in different lighting environments I can see the yellowness at certain angles.

Here is the G...
[url=https://www.jamesallen.com/mo...ut/1.00-carat-g-color-vs1-clarity-sku-1923856[/url]

Do you experts advise that the G 1. look any different set in the ring, and 2.will have similar if not better Fire and Scintilization?

I am waiting on the ASET for the G, and can post my H ASET later if needed to compare.


THANKS FOR READING MY BEAST OF A FIRST POST! You are all awesome.[ :wavey: :clap:
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
So.

My thought is: tint is bothering you in certain lighting situations.

Are you sure it's the diamond's tint that you are seeing?

Why do I ask that?

I had an F for my engagement stone. The thing was WHITE. But if I was wearing a cream/yellow/beige shirt. Or I was in a restaurant or coffee shop with beige or yellow walls the diamond would reflect those colors.

So it is possible you could go up to an F even and still see yellow.

Diamonds reflect the color around them.

Make sure what you are seeing is really body color, and not reflection before you do anything else.
 

Rivendell

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
151
I agree with Gypsy my E colour can look yellowish in some lighting conditions. Personally I don't think you'd get too much benefit going from H to a G. It may also be the rose gold setting that's making the stone look warmer coloured than it is.
 

LunaStar

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Messages
24
I am thinking too that the rose gold setting may be making the diamond look different to you. If you do not wear rose gold regularly, it can take some getting used to.
 

ResearchAddictNoob

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 18, 2016
Messages
6
Thanks everyone. I do think it is the rose gold- and probably the lighting conditions and when I take pictures it is more noticeable.


Please tell me about these ASETs?? The first is the one I bought already...
img_1361_1.jpg

Vs this one- which obviously returns more light but is the lack of blue on the right where it is black less desirable? It doesn't seem to be as symmetrical . And I'm mostly looking for the diamond with better scintillation and fire.
img_1359.jpg
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Two things.

The second has better light return. That's #1. Black/blue is a non-issue. Really. Just ignore it.

#2, that diamond just looks ROUND in real life. And that's unset. When set, it really IS round. NO difference at all. The halo is the only thing making it look square. I've seen these in person. And the people I was with, one of whom was a noob and the other was an experienced appraiser, and I all agreed it was a waste of money and time to buy for someone who is actually WANTING a cushion.

Why? Cushions face up small. You can get a round with the same measurements for SIGNIFICANTLY less.

If you are going to switch out the stone, I would go for one with either a BGD hearts and arrows, as those are more square and the arrow orientation keeps them looking square.

Or a regular cushion, but one with equally great performance. Which IS possible, outside the hearts and arrows faceting.
 

ResearchAddictNoob

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 18, 2016
Messages
6
Thank you very much for your reply. Two reasons I'm going to stick with cushion- 1st, she really likes cushion diamonds on her Pinterest and 2nd it seems I can get a better cut while still staying at the 1c mark.

I guess my question is... what does overall light return mean visually- does it mean more fire and sparkle? It'll be brighter overall or does that mean it will have more sparkle on the facets and more fire? Is the G diamond going to be worth 600$ more visually?

To throw another wrench in the mix... there's also this diamond which is an H but has better light return. Will this one sparkle more? It also has nice contrast. img_1373.jpg

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.01-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-1923845
 

ResearchAddictNoob

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 18, 2016
Messages
6
Gypsy,

Thank you for your reply. I did read what you said, but I am asking very specific questions which I would like help with. I have already decided on Cushion cut, I don't like the look of rounds with cushion halo- it just doesnt seem to fit as smoothly. I do understand that with a round the measurements per carat would be larger - that it would look larger. I also understand when you suggest a traditional cushion cut facet pattern, but I do not like the look of them as much, I like the radial symmetry.

I guess it comes down to- my gf likes cushion, I want to get her something brilliant cut and I am asking what these diamonds will look like in person- in terms of brightness and fire. I don't think I have been unreasonable in my requests for advice on ASETs and advice on what a diamond's performance will be.

Sorry if I have offended you by going in a different direction, but I expect that you would treat a newcomer with even more patience and respect than a normal poster. I've been more than cordial, although I do admit that I am stuck on certain things that might not be recommended by you. It is not out of disrespect.

If anyone else is reading this, please feel free to chime in, frankly this has made me more confused. I just want to know how will I be able to tell which diamond will have more fire and scintillation?
 

ResearchAddictNoob

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 18, 2016
Messages
6
Also, I did look at GOG and BGD, but I couldn't find anything 1c within my price range and I would rather stick with JA.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
alysonf|1479754557|4101155 said:
ResearchAddictNoob|1479749084|4101115 said:
Gypsy,

I do understand that with a round the measurements per carat would be larger - that it would look larger.
That is only marginally true maybe a 5% or less greater surface area in a round of the same carat weight. See these two.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d.../1.030-j-vs1-cushion-diamond-ags-104083997006
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...ls/1.033-j-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104087779008

There is a very small difference in surface area between the two <5% most likely(difference in rounded corners). Yet the cushion is almost 30% cheaper. Gypsy is plain wrong, Cushions can be cheaper per mm of surface area in many cases.

Do not fall into the trap of comparing the diameter of a circle to the length of a side of square and thinking that they are equivalent and represent faceup size.


I guess it comes down to- my gf likes cushion
You mentioned her pinterest but did you actually see hearts and arrows cushions on her pinterest? they are quite rare. The biggest problem with these H&A cushions is you need quite a specific setting to accentuate the pillow qualities of the outline, in many haloes it will look no different than a haloed round. You have to try to find a a more square halo that hugs the straight edges of this cushion instead of rounding them out as in the setting you showed above. Going custom will get you this look try David Klass, he might be in budget.
Allison, if you are using BGD AGS measurements.ypur math is tktally off. The BGD measurements include a diagnol. I am not totally wrong at all. Have you seen these stones in person and compared them to rounds of the same measurements? I have. Side by side. I know exactly what I am talking about. And at no time did I say the OP shoukd get a round. I said tbat the facet pattern and outline LOOK round and he shoukd get a real cushion


Research addict.
You are completely missing the point of my post. Probably cause I was too tactful. So let's try bluntness.

This isn't about you. This is a present for someone else.

Your preferences do not matter. Period. Only your budget does.

You prefer radiial symmetry? Great. When you are buying a ring for yourself you prioritize.that.

But you are buying a gift for someone who wants a CUSHION.

That particular facet pattern looks round. Set or unset. It is a poor choice for your lady's wants. What you are going is this: you are obeying the LETTER of her request but completely overwriiting the SPIRIT of it with your own desires. That is not right.So yes, you could switch the setting to make it look morw square. But that is because the stone is not square. Its round with tiny little corners that arw barely there.

I understand you want your questions answers but you are missing the big picture: you need to take your preferences for rounds, because that is what you like, out of this. And buy what is best for her. Not you. SHE is the one who will wear it for the rest of her life. Not you.

That is the entire point of giving a gift. To make the other person happy. Not to make yourself happy
And that is what marriage is about too: putting another's needs ahead of your own. So consider it practice.
 

dazzlerazzle

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 25, 2016
Messages
130
Gypsy's giving you great advice, OP.

If I were a cushion girl, I wouldn't like the path you're going down. In my opinion, being a cushion girl comes down to either A) liking the typical facet structure of a cushion or B) Not caring at all about the facet structure, but REALLY liking the square/rectangular outline.

With that in mind, you would do better to, if it's A) get her a cushion with a TYPICAL cushion facet structure. For all you know, she prefers cushions specifically because they DON'T have radial symmetry. Or B) Get her an ideal cut round (larger face-up) and put a very square halo around that.

Basically, what Gypsy is trying to say is that MOST people are not going to want a cushion with radial symmetry. People who want radial symmetry, for the most part, go with rounds.

I think in your quest to get your gf what YOU think is "best," you've let your own *preferences* seep into the equation. I think your intentions here are good, but I'd hate to see you get her something she really doesn't like because YOU like radial symmetry.


Also, Gypsy prefers the second radial cushion ASET (I think) because there is more red, and it spreads across the entire stone, edge to edge. The first stone, you lose the red in the center, meaning you lose that light return.

**Edited to add: I just took another look at your ring and it DEF looks like a round stone set into a cushion halo because of the radial symmetry. If I wanted a cushion, I'd be disappointed that everyone would *see* round when they looked at my ring.
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,449
alysonf|1479754557|4101155 said:
ResearchAddictNoob|1479749084|4101115 said:
Gypsy,

I do understand that with a round the measurements per carat would be larger - that it would look larger.
That is only marginally true maybe a 5% or less greater surface area in a round of the same carat weight. See these two.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d.../1.030-j-vs1-cushion-diamond-ags-104083997006
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...ls/1.033-j-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104087779008

There is a very small difference in surface area between the two
Do not fall into the trap of comparing the diameter of a circle to the length of a side of square and thinking that they are equivalent and represent faceup size.


I guess it comes down to- my gf likes cushion
You mentioned her pinterest but did you actually see hearts and arrows cushions on her pinterest? they are quite rare. The biggest problem with these H&A cushions is you need quite a specific setting to accentuate the pillow qualities of the outline, in many haloes it will look no different than a haloed round. You have to try to find a a more square halo that hugs the straight edges of this cushion instead of rounding them out as in the setting you showed above. Going custom will get you this look try David Klass, he might be in budget.
Please read this thread:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rant-bgd-cushions-ags-reports.226798/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rant-bgd-cushions-ags-reports.226798/[/URL]

With your example you ironically have proven gypsy's point, and further verified that BGD measurements of cushions are confusing to consumers.
 

Serg

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
2,501
Gypsy|1479759133|4101181 said:
alysonf|1479754557|4101155 said:
ResearchAddictNoob|1479749084|4101115 said:
Gypsy,

I do understand that with a round the measurements per carat would be larger - that it would look larger.
That is only marginally true maybe a 5% or less greater surface area in a round of the same carat weight. See these two.

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d.../1.030-j-vs1-cushion-diamond-ags-104083997006
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...ls/1.033-j-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104087779008

There is a very small difference in surface area between the two <5% most likely(difference in rounded corners). Yet the cushion is almost 30% cheaper. Gypsy is plain wrong, Cushions can be cheaper per mm of surface area in many cases.

Do not fall into the trap of comparing the diameter of a circle to the length of a side of square and thinking that they are equivalent and represent faceup size.


I guess it comes down to- my gf likes cushion
You mentioned her pinterest but did you actually see hearts and arrows cushions on her pinterest? they are quite rare. The biggest problem with these H&A cushions is you need quite a specific setting to accentuate the pillow qualities of the outline, in many haloes it will look no different than a haloed round. You have to try to find a a more square halo that hugs the straight edges of this cushion instead of rounding them out as in the setting you showed above. Going custom will get you this look try David Klass, he might be in budget.
Allison, if you are using BGD AGS measurements.ypur math is tktally off. The BGD measurements include a diagnol. I am not totally wrong at all. Have you seen these stones in person and compared them to rounds of the same measurements? I have. Side by side. I know exactly what I am talking about. And at no time did I say the OP shoukd get a round. I said tbat the facet pattern and outline LOOK round and he shoukd get a real cushion


Research addict.
You are completely missing the point of my post. Probably cause I was too tactful. So let's try bluntness.

This isn't about you. This is a present for someone else.

Your preferences do not matter. Period. Only your budget does.

You prefer radiial symmetry? Great. When you are buying a ring for yourself you prioritize.that.

But you are buying a gift for someone who wants a CUSHION.

That particular facet pattern looks round. Set or unset. It is a poor choice for your lady's wants. What you are going is this: you are obeying the LETTER of her request but completely overwriiting the SPIRIT of it with your own desires. That is not right.So yes, you could switch the setting to make it look morw square. But that is because the stone is not square. Its round with tiny little corners that arw barely there.

I understand you want your questions answers but you are missing the big picture: you need to take your preferences for rounds, because that is what you like, out of this. And buy what is best for her. Not you. SHE is the one who will wear it for the rest of her life. Not you.

That is the entire point of giving a gift. To make the other person happy. Not to make yourself happy
And that is what marriage is about too: putting another's needs ahead of your own. So consider it practice.
Gypsy,
Your post become too aggressive. Also I think that you missed very important details about spread calculations and consumers preferences .
Some consumers prefer outline shape as Cushion has and facet pattern as Round cut has.
Some cushions have similar spread to round cut but much bigger discount. So consumers may buy for same price a cushion with
1) Bigger mass
2) Bigger area
3) Similar facet style than round cut

It is quite smart choice if Cushion has good discount. Consumers would receive diamond that looks bigger, has more flashes, same brightness for same price.


what is wrong here? May be you need more respect alternative opinions or at least better understand its?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Serg, I respect and I like you. I have learned a lot from you. And you are a great cutter.

But you do not advise new posters on this forum the way I do. The way I have done for 10 years.

The post that you have called aggressive is pretty much the same post, verbatim, that I have been posting on here all that time. With the site owner's knowledge. My posts have not 'become' anything. There is no change from what I was posting 6 months ago, a year ago, and back beyond that. Perhaps you do not spend enough time on here to see and appreciate that.

Do you know why I post this same advice so often?

Please read here:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-this-a-good-radiant-cut-diamond-please-helppppp.223679/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-this-a-good-radiant-cut-diamond-please-helppppp.223679/[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/round-brilliant-cut-2-ct-for-18k-whats-the-best-option.224731/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/round-brilliant-cut-2-ct-for-18k-whats-the-best-option.224731/[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-diamond-journey-idj-experience.226139/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-diamond-journey-idj-experience.226139/[/URL]

And I quote:
"Thank god Gypsy told me straight and "forced" me to ask my girl..." her preferences.

Sometimes I 'force' them to look at their Future Fiance Pinterest accounts for specific things. But most of the time I 'force' them to put their significant other's preferences first in one way or another. And they always thank me and the other posters on the forum for our advice after they do their research on the SO's preferences. Because 90- something percent of the time we are right.

And yes, some would feel the posts are aggressive. Unfortunately, when we try less 'aggressive' methods, like I initially tried with this poster, you will see that they simply do not work.

Again, I respect and like you Serg. But you do not have my experiences on these boards as basically providing a concierge service to posters. The basic vendor rules of PS prohibit you from doing that.

It is curious that after 40k posts and 10 years you are now challenging my 'aggression' for this type of post.

I can do basic math. And I DO understand the calculations. I agree: SOME cushions can face up well. And SOME can be a better deal in terms of surface area. Unfortunately, those are the exception not the rule. MOST do not. And MOST hearts and arrows cushions come at a premium. So most of them are NOT good deals when you compare spread and price, given how cushions have come up in price due to popularity.

But that REALLY isn't the central issue here in this thread. This is not a thread about SPREAD and value. Which is why I didn't post about it (well, that and I ignore trolls) or follow up on the issue. That is a red herring posted by the troll.

This is a thread about a poster who is buying a hearts and arrows faceted stone with THIS precise facet pattern for his Significant Other who has specified that they want a CUSHION.

So I ask you Serg. How is it aggressive for me to post my own personal observations. Having seen THIS EXACT facet pattern side by side (in a 2 carat no less) with a super ideal round of the same mm and with a 'traditional' cushion similar to the one posted before?

Why is it aggressive for me to post that the stone looks round. Set and unset. That the stone does not have ANY advantage in terms of performance to the 'traditional' cushion I posted? Not in fire, not in scintillation, not in any way was the stone BETTER in terms of performance. That the only difference was that the stone looked square and did not look like a round and was demonstrably different, but not in any way inferior to a round in it's faceting or performance.

Is it aggressive for me to say that I was standing there with an appraiser I trust and respect, with 15 years of experience who shared my same opinion of that stone? That the exact radial symmetry this poster likes is it's problem.

And is it aggressive for me to post, AGAIN, my personal experience on these boards where a lady has been disappointed and has come on here to RETURN a stone of this EXACT facet pattern (and asked us to find her a stone that could fit into her setting) in favor of a 'real' cushion. Why did she do this? "Everyone thinks it's a round, and I want a 'real' cushion, like I asked for."

And tell me, how aggressive is it for me to want to save this poster's lady that experience by asking him to put aside his desires for radial symmetry aside in order to get her a ring SHE will love, since it is a gift for her.

From this WOMAN'S perspective, I don't think it's aggressive at all to ask a man to put his lady's tastes first when the present is for her. And since that is what I did. You'll excuse me if I do NOT agree with you Serg.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
I love how your post basic knowledge like: math and the fact that the octahedron shape of diamond. crystals makes square diamonds cheaper in terms of waste loss like only "special super smart people" club members know it. All anyone has to do is look at my old posts to see what I bring to the party. Thing is: I have no need to showoff. I have no reason to grovel to trade members hoping they'll like me. I have real friends in and out of the trade, I have real diamond experience, real knowledge, and real respect all of it earned. But most of all, I have self respect. Too much to give a troll any more of my time, ever.
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,449
cindyfreck|1479796178|4101335 said:
gm89uk|1479772865|4101234 said:
Please read this thread:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rant-bgd-cushions-ags-reports.226798/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rant-bgd-cushions-ags-reports.226798/[/URL]

With your example you ironically have proven gypsy's point, and further verified that BGD measurements of cushions are confusing to consumers.

Before perpetuating Gypsy's careless comment like "its the problem with AGS reports reporting the diagonal" ACTUALLY open up the report and investigate for yourself DO THE MATH.

1) http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.030-j-vs1-cushion-diamond-ags-104083997006
2) http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.033-j-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104087779008

1)In a cushion you calculate surface area by using L*W(a square) and then subtract the the loss of area from rounded corners(assume about 3 - 7%) in these 5% or less is reasonable.

So use L*L*0.95 = 5.87*5.87*0.95 which is 32.73 mm squared. (Notice I ignored the corner to corner measurement of 6.57 on the AGSL report it isn't relevant for this calculation)

2) In a round you calculate surface area by using Pie*Radius Squared or Pie*Diameter*Diameter/4

So use 0.785*D*D => 0.785*6.51*6.51 = which is 33.29 mm squared.

The difference is only 2% in surface area yet the cushion was 30% cheaper and I have other comparisons showing the same trend.

To you and Gypsy please stop perpetuating ignorance and understand the math it really isn't that difficult. It simply isn't true you get better spread for your dollar from a H&A round versus an H&A cushion.
Not wishing to join in the above but I am more than capable of the simple maths described. The simple matter is for me, surface area isn't everything, the spread of the cushion is still significantly reduced per carat, hence why for example ovals are suggested with smaller carats and a larger spread/carat.

In the examples above: a 5.87mm spread (in the cushion) if it had the exact same proportions of the round you posted, would be a 0.754 carat diamond. I'm aware the square cushion would gain a bit more spread in the diagonal measurement vs a 0.754. Ultimately the surface area being similar does not translate into the same spread and so appears smaller per carat.

If we standardise price by spread rather than surface area (based on current BGD inventory where the OP is planning to buy)

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.903-j-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104088433011
This 0.903 is still cheaper than the cushion and would most likely look bigger. regardless of surface area, because of spread.

So everything else aside, I'm failing to see how a square cushions are a good deal, if you are going for spread. From my experience, which I admit is limited compared to yours, as this is not my profession, a square cushion is one of the smallest face up spread appearance/per carat, lagging behind the round and princess, more so than is discounted by price (at BGD inventory because that is what the OP is looking at).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpxZHcvdOXY comparison of 1 ct sizes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqT7u7HjsIY despite the cushion being 0.2mm larger, it still looks smaller.
 

Dakota

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Messages
48
There is too much going on with that ring in the OP. In my opinion, a ring shouldn't take 5 minutes of looking at to decide whether you want to like it or not.

Keep it simple is my motto.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
gm89uk he is not trade!! Not even close. Don't be fooled by him.

You want to know as much as him? Here: https://www.pricescope.com/journal/cushion-cut-diamond-guide-engagement-rings-direct-0

Between that and the helpful links archive at the top of this forum you will know more than he does by morning. Want to know alot more than him: talk to Karl for an hour.

His one trick is that he fools people into thinking he knows more than he does by stating obvious things, like math basics, in condescending ways to make himself sound smart. Don't be fooled. I have followed your posts, you really are super smart.
FYI: princesses and asschers generally suck for spread too.
 

Serg

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
2,501
gm89uk|1479810747|4101370 said:
cindyfreck|1479796178|4101335 said:
gm89uk|1479772865|4101234 said:
Please read this thread:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rant-bgd-cushions-ags-reports.226798/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rant-bgd-cushions-ags-reports.226798/[/URL]

With your example you ironically have proven gypsy's point, and further verified that BGD measurements of cushions are confusing to consumers.

Before perpetuating Gypsy's careless comment like "its the problem with AGS reports reporting the diagonal" ACTUALLY open up the report and investigate for yourself DO THE MATH.

1) http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.030-j-vs1-cushion-diamond-ags-104083997006
2) http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.033-j-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104087779008

1)In a cushion you calculate surface area by using L*W(a square) and then subtract the the loss of area from rounded corners(assume about 3 - 7%) in these 5% or less is reasonable.

So use L*L*0.95 = 5.87*5.87*0.95 which is 32.73 mm squared. (Notice I ignored the corner to corner measurement of 6.57 on the AGSL report it isn't relevant for this calculation)

2) In a round you calculate surface area by using Pie*Radius Squared or Pie*Diameter*Diameter/4

So use 0.785*D*D => 0.785*6.51*6.51 = which is 33.29 mm squared.

The difference is only 2% in surface area yet the cushion was 30% cheaper and I have other comparisons showing the same trend.

To you and Gypsy please stop perpetuating ignorance and understand the math it really isn't that difficult. It simply isn't true you get better spread for your dollar from a H&A round versus an H&A cushion.
Not wishing to join in the above but I am more than capable of the simple maths described. The simple matter is for me, surface area isn't everything, the spread of the cushion is still significantly reduced per carat, hence why for example ovals are suggested with smaller carats and a larger spread/carat.

In the examples above: a 5.87mm spread (in the cushion) if it had the exact same proportions of the round you posted, would be a 0.754 carat diamond. I'm aware the square cushion would gain a bit more spread in the diagonal measurement vs a 0.754. Ultimately the surface area being similar does not translate into the same spread and so appears smaller per carat.

If we standardise price by spread rather than surface area (based on current BGD inventory where the OP is planning to buy)

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.903-j-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104088433011
This 0.903 is still cheaper than the cushion and would most likely look bigger. regardless of surface area, because of spread.

So everything else aside, I'm failing to see how a square cushions are a good deal, if you are going for spread. From my experience, which I admit is limited compared to yours, as this is not my profession, a square cushion is one of the smallest face up spread appearance/per carat, lagging behind the round and princess, more so than is discounted by price (at BGD inventory because that is what the OP is looking at).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpxZHcvdOXY comparison of 1 ct sizes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqT7u7HjsIY despite the cushion being 0.2mm larger, it still looks smaller.
Rectangular Cushion cuts usually are not good for spread. Typical spread for cushion cuts is 10-30%.

for Cushion http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.030-j-vs1-cushion-diamond-ags-104083997006
with Length=Width = 5.87 and Diagonal =6.57 spread has to be around -20%, that is quite big. So such cushion 1.03ct looks definitely smaller than 1.03ct round.

but discount 30% changes game.
For same are similar price you may receive
1) a cushion diamond with weight +25% than the round diamond
2) a cushion with 5%-7% area more than the round diamond
3) a cushion with similar or different facet pattern than round cut
4) A diamond that is different than standard round cut but has similar optical performance

Color is important factor that you have to account.
If you select "Crushed ice" Cushion with Pavilion color grades G-K then table color will much worse than Round diamond has with same pavilion color grade.
If you select Cushion with H&A pattern or with other type short ray tracing pattern then Table color is similar to Round cut table color.
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
9,516
Those that are arguing the technical are missing the point and it is a very important point.
That is PERSONAL PREFERENCE.
Many people who love well cut cushions love them because they appeal to them and don't look like RB type look as much as a classic cushion.
Read that again. PERSONAL PREFERENCE
Someone wanting a cushion if someone bought them a h&a cushion might be disappointed
even if it is a technically a great diamond. It could also be the perfect diamond for someone.
Before spending thousands of dollars on a diamond for someone it might be a good idea to find out that they like.
Advising someone on PS is just as much about the human factor as it is the technical.
Which is what makes Gypsy so effective at helping people but also gets on the nerves of some strictly technically minded people.
 

Serg

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
2,501
My Personal Preference:

1) RBC is too boring
2) I like Cushion outline( girdle shape)
3) I do not like Crushed Ice type cuts with any girdle shape. They almost have not Fire , they are too dark in settings and have bad table color for color grade worse than F.
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,449
Gypsy|1479811433|4101374 said:
gm89uk he is not trade!! Not even close. Don't be fooled by him.

You want to know as much as him? Here: https://www.pricescope.com/journal/cushion-cut-diamond-guide-engagement-rings-direct-0

Between that and the helpful links archive at the top of this forum you will know more than he does by morning. Want to know alot more than him: talk to Karl for an hour.

His one trick is that he fools people into thinking he knows more than he does by stating obvious things, like math basics, in condescending ways to make himself sound smart. Don't be fooled. I have followed your posts, you really are super smart.
FYI: princesses and asschers generally suck for spread too.
Thank you for your kind words and for the link. I'm sorry for the unnecessary and childish manner that you were spoken to.

Thanks serg for the clarification.
 

rainydaze

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
2,835
Is it enough for her to *know* it's a cushion, even if it doesn't look like one?

I do think your setting (while beautiful!) doesn't help. I stared at your picture and the halo looks slightly cushion-y, but the diamond shape is lost within it and reads round to me.

My experience: I recently purchased (also from JA) this cut-cornered square radiant, with H&A pattern. It's a not a cushion, but very close to what you have bought. Even with it being more square than yours, and the cut corners, it looks very much like a round (so I imagine yours looks even more so because it is rounded). Because of the faceting. It's one of the reasons I debated keeping it - I plan on wearing it on my right hand, and I already have a round on my left. I wanted square. But I also wanted optimum performance, and wasn't willing to compromise on this (i.e. no traditionally cut radiants or cushions or princesses, also because I just don't love the look of their faceting). So I am taking my chances on the shape being compromised more than the performance, and hoping the setting will help accentuate the squareness. *But* I am going in knowing it may still very well end up looking like a round when all is said and done.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/radiant-cut/0.76-carat-h-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-839239

If your GF wants a cushion, I second that you might want to make sure she doesn't also want the traditional faceting as much as the shape. If not, then you might want to try to find a different style of setting that accentuates the cushion shape so that it doesn't read quite as round. And by all means, find the absolute best one you can.

As for comparing your options, I am not as skilled at deciphering the nuances. I'm sorry I can't offer you help there.
 
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