Heartbroken and confused, some insight please

[Kaleigh]

Lots of good advice. Hoping you check in with us.. Been there with you for a long time and want you to be OK...

 

[Kaleigh]

Lots of good advice. Hoping you check in with us.. Been there with you for a long time and want you to be OK...

 

[MissGotRocks]

Ally, I am very sorry for your pain. I know there have been bumps in the road before during your long relationship. I think the fact that you have left twice gives you some indication of where this is going. It may be confusing to try to sort through but I think we all know, deep down inside, where things really stand with our relationships. Being able to accept it takes time but I think in hindsight it is really not as confusing and puzzling as we choose to think it is. We're just hoping that we've missed some little tidbit that will make it all go away so that we can be happy and comfortable again.

The only thing we can truly count on in life is change. Sometimes we change together, sometimes we change in different directions. I can see how you probably feel betrayed by his reversal on the children decision but people do have great swings on this subject. It is a huge decision that will impact the rest of your life. It also has a time stamp on it - time eventually runs out and we all hope we made the best choice for ourselves that we could as we'll have to live with the choice.

It would be a wonderful world if people could just simply say what is on their mind but being that straightforward is a hard thing to do - particularly if you think the choice you are making is going to have a negative impact on the other person. You cannot control him or what he wants to do; you can only control and manage your reaction to it. I think the suggestion of counseling is a good one for you - do it now. If you need to take time from work, take it and help yourself. Protecting your finances is equally good advice. Don't kid yourself into thinking that he would never take the money - too many people have been completely blindsided by this.

I wish you all the best and I am sorry you are hurting. The pain will change too - that level of hurt is just unsustainable over a prolonged period of time. Nothing stays awful or wonderful forever - all things moderate with time. You are a beautiful young woman with a bright future ahead of you - with or without him. Don't lose sight of that and above all - be good to yourself. Please check back in with us to let us know how you're doing.

 

[vintagelover229]

I don't have a ton of time to post so I am sorry if any of this comes out not very clear.

Allycat-hugs! I'm so sorry you are dealing with this right now on top of everything else on your plate. I am in the GTA and if you need someone to visit/see/get away I'm more than happy to help any way that I can.


You've been though a LOT together-in a very short amount of time. At one point he was there though a major medical crisis that scared us all-all while still going to medical school. You've been together since you were teenagers.

Do you really want to start anew in the middle of everything else? You have so much together already-if you can get though ALL of what you've gone though-and there is light at the end of the tunnel (you won't work that many hours when you are done) I say give your marriage everything you've got. You're a hard working-local and amazing woman-you prove that everyday when you work as hard as you do and doing your best.

I'm not saying you can't be happy with out him-and get remarried/still have a wonderful life.

So if you can-take a day off or set time for your marriage to discuss where you both are at. What you both want/are willing to do. It will eat you away if you let it-or you can communicate needs and if your able to give it to one another/how to give it.


You're a very talented young woman and I know you can get though this. HUGS!

 

[LaraOnline]

Firstly I am very sorry that you are going through this experience.

I also am the partner of a professional who works very very long hours.
Our lives are completely dominated by his job, his work hours and his emotional and physical needs in terms of coping with his job.
It is all well and good to say a partner is an adult and should cope happily with never seeing their partner, but the fact is most if us like to live life not only with company, but with a degree of control over one's personal lifestyle and even the breakdown of household chores.

It is interesting that you chose to leave home for a month after learning of an online flirtation. I know there are cultural differences between Australia and North America, but to me that interaction would be a sign that my husband needed more in terms of partnership, not less. Did he ask you to leave? You were reunited; what happened during that process? He must have missed you.?

Is this the point he decided to start counselling by himself? It is clear he feels he needs to work out what he wants, in terms of his own life.

In my view, it is entirely fair that he can see one path as being childless and living with a degree of luxury. He should have a share of the spoils of your career if he has sacrificed all personal opportunities to see you through your career. I think it is quite common for the dominant partner with the all encompassing career to downplay the emotional support that comes from the supporting partner, but I don't think you should ignore the impact your career choices have made on his life.

Regarding the egg freezing, in my view that could be seen by him as another example of having to sacrifice even more of his personal certainty in terms of family planning and future lifestyle. Will you choose to use the eggs? Will the frozen eggs survive? Should he postpone the formation of his family (if that is what he wants) on the strength of some frozen eggs?

I don't want to upset you by discussing your personal business in these terms. But do you even have time to think about his lifestyle preferences - short and long term - from week to week or month to month? Working 120 hours a week, with an expectation of moving overseas for more of the same might be exciting and empowering for you, but it is possibly the absolute opposite for your man.
What do you bring to this relationship?

Having said all this, please understand that I wish you all the best and can only hope that the pair of you find peace and clarity, to better enjoy the exciting years of life ahead.

The very best to you.

 

[arkieb1]

I had some friends going through a similar sort of thing. The husband wasn't cheating but when they were younger and first married they both agreed no kids. Then after a number of years I think he sort of had an early to mid life crisis and began to think about dying and leaving a legacy and what he would or would not be leaving behind and then he realised that he did actually want children. I have no idea if that is the central issue in your case or not, but I think you have been given a lot of good advice.

Sometimes unfortunately over time we do grow apart. I am not the same person that I was 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago, neither are either of you. You both need to sit down or go to counselling and work out exactly what your priorities are, openly and honestly (this is the most worrying aspect about this that he hasn't been open and honest with you about what his needs actually are) and if there is anything worth saving or not, and if not the most sensible way you can move forward.

 

[allycat0303]

Hey everyone,

I read every post. I was clinic when I wrote it (burst into tears.. like an UGLY cry twice) O I am just very confused.

I think predictably, I went into '' I can`t go on without him'' and '' he`s my soulmate'' I know it's weak but that's what happened. I feel very much that this is my failing. When we had the covnersation last night, he seemed to be blaming me fore most of it. My sister who knows me very well, says I have bled for this relationship. Some points he brought up:

1. He doesn`t feel like I respect him because I precieve him as not being good enough for me (I don't know what to say about this. I have to be brutally honest with you guys. I love him. But he's right, I don't respect him.) I guess I must show it in subtle ways.

2. He feels bad when he goes out with the other doctors (I don't hang out with doctors.) So I don't get this.

3. He doesn't want to be the husband that followed me to the states for fellowship, then be a stay at home Dad.

4. He feels that if we were to do a long distance relationship, I would find someone better and leave him. And he would be stuck at 40 years old without a wife or children. Now I have to be brutally honest with guys. I have been on and off about him coming with me on fellowship. I have said that I would leave him once my fellowship was done (more then once). And I have felt that maybe being away from him for a year, would help me find direction.

About two months ago, I made him sign the equivalent of a pre-nup in Quebec...he said he didn't care, but that night, we had a huge fight. He was very irritated by it. He did ask me two or three times if I loved him and saw a future with him. And in retrospect, my answers were evasive.

Christmas was terrible. I bought him lots of presents, and he told me he felt like I was buying him off and being a *not very nice person*

On the flip side:

1. When I went through the possibility of freezing my eggs, I begged him to think about it, take it seriously, because I was ready to do it. He read up about it and decided '' I don't want them to hurt you''. I want to clarify, that 3 months ago, my friends have heard him say, ''I DON'T want kids'' that's part of the reason I let the freezing thing go.

2. Honestly, what confuses me the most is I HAVE HAD THERAPY. Many times. The fact that he feels the need to lie about it hurts me. He said he was embarassed. But I don't get it. His FRIENDS know. They gave him the referral. So he's embarassed in front of me....I've suggested therapy for him. For us. He's always been not interested. And all he said to me, is ''I've been with you for 18 years, I love you, I don't want to leave you. I want to figure this out.'' But I don't get it. Am I this judgemental terrible person. Why lie to me about it?

And there's the stress of fellowhip, which stresses me out too. I don't want him to leave a job he loves to follow me. I get that. I just wish he would talk to me. Told me how he feels.

Sorry to ramble, just trying to sort it out. And understand. I left the house by the way, just took my stuff and left.

My sister is getting married in 5 days. And she told me she was pregnant today. I couldn't stop crying. There's so much joy and sorrow that came with that.

 

[Gypsy]

Alley, he's not your soul mate. You respect your soul mate. You don't make them feel less.

It sounds like you are being just as abusive to him as he has been to you in the past. You guys have no trust left between you.

What is marriage? For me, my husband and I have had our share of BIG problems. We are still each others best friends. I can't imagine keeping something as big as therapy from him, or him from me. Our trust in one another has been shaken and tested, but we've managed through it all to turn to each OTHER when we are hurting and help the other person through what we are going through. Even while we were in therapy.

It doesn't sound like you've done that for him, maybe that's because of your work schedule, but I think that's just a screen. If you are there for your partner you can be there for ten minutes and they can feel it all week. I know he's failed in being there for you in the past too.

It also sounds like you guys are trapped in a cycle. And your husband is the one who had the strength to find help and own up to the fact that this relationship isn't working for him. And he's absolutely right to do so. You guys are hurting one another. Over and over again. That's not soul mates. Stop trying to make something that isn't working, and hasn't been for a long time, fit a dream that you have.

Here's something a friend told me when I was in an abusive relationship. I said couldn't imagine my life without him because we'd been together for so long. My friend replied: "If you had cancer for ten years, and suddenly you were cured. Would you miss it? Woudl you want it back? Because you two are a cancer to each other. Walk away and accept the cure." And he was absolutely right.

As for you having gone to therapy. I had been in therapy for a DECADE over my mother, trying to figure out why when we loved each other so much, we seemed to be hurting each other over and over again. Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Then I found the right therapist. As another poster said: one that speaks to my soul. And not only did I have the right therapist. But it was the right TIME for therapy. I was finally willing to admit that there was a HUGE problem in my relationship with my mother, that it wasn't normal, and never had been.

And ONLY then, with the right therapist, and at the right TIME in my life, when I was ready for the extreme difficultly of FACING those problems, did I FINALLY see results. And it was bloody and hard. But after 14 years, I am FINALLY in a good place.

Therapy doesn't work if you aren't ready for it. If you aren't ready to go in and say "I want to be healthy, and if that means walking away from my parents, my job, my husband, I am READY to do so, because I am THAT important and that is what I deserve." And therapy doesn't work if you aren't talking to the right person. You need someone who challenges you. You need someone who is willing to rip down your perceptions, but with empathy and care, and help you see the truth, but also hold your hand while you do that so you are safe. That is very rare.

Just going to therapy is a waste of time. Unless you are willing to embrace it, and you are working with someone who embraces you in turn, you won't get anything out of it. SO I'm not surprised it hasn't worked for you. But it is a good sign that it is working for your husband. It's clearly what he needed, and he's clearly ready for WHATEVER being healthy means.... even if it means walking away from you.

And as much as that hurts, you, it's a good thing. Because I don't know if you will ever have the strength to walk away. But I think that if HE does, it would be good for you both. And maybe that is the most loving thing he can do for you and for him: move on.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Hey everyone,

I read every post. I was clinic when I wrote it (burst into tears.. like an UGLY cry twice) O I am just very confused.

I think predictably, I went into '' I can`t go on without him'' and '' he`s my soulmate'' I know it's weak but that's what happened. I feel very much that this is my failing. When we had the covnersation last night, he seemed to be blaming me fore most of it. My sister who knows me very well, says I have bled for this relationship. Some points he brought up:

1. He doesn`t feel like I respect him because I precieve him as not being good enough for me (I don't know what to say about this. I have to be brutally honest with you guys. I love him. But he's right, I don't respect him.) I guess I must show it in subtle ways.

2. He feels bad when he goes out with the other doctors (I don't hang out with doctors.) So I don't get this.

3. He doesn't want to be the husband that followed me to the states for fellowship, then be a stay at home Dad.

4. He feels that if we were to do a long distance relationship, I would find someone better and leave him. And he would be stuck at 40 years old without a wife or children. Now I have to be brutally honest with guys. I have been on and off about him coming with me on fellowship. I have said that I would leave him once my fellowship was done (more then once). And I have felt that maybe being away from him for a year, would help me find direction.

About two months ago, I made him sign the equivalent of a pre-nup in Quebec...he said he didn't care, but that night, we had a huge fight. He was very irritated by it. He did ask me two or three times if I loved him and saw a future with him. And in retrospect, my answers were evasive.

Christmas was terrible. I bought him lots of presents, and he told me he felt like I was buying him off and being a *not very nice person*

On the flip side:

1. When I went through the possibility of freezing my eggs, I begged him to think about it, take it seriously, because I was ready to do it. He read up about it and decided '' I don't want them to hurt you''. I want to clarify, that 3 months ago, my friends have heard him say, ''I DON'T want kids'' that's part of the reason I let the freezing thing go.

2. Honestly, what confuses me the most is I HAVE HAD THERAPY. Many times. The fact that he feels the need to lie about it hurts me. He said he was embarassed. But I don't get it. His FRIENDS know. They gave him the referral. So he's embarassed in front of me....I've suggested therapy for him. For us. He's always been not interested. And all he said to me, is ''I've been with you for 18 years, I love you, I don't want to leave you. I want to figure this out.'' But I don't get it. Am I this judgemental terrible person. Why lie to me about it?

And there's the stress of fellowhip, which stresses me out too. I don't want him to leave a job he loves to follow me. I get that. I just wish he would talk to me. Told me how he feels.

Sorry to ramble, just trying to sort it out. And understand. I left the house by the way, just took my stuff and left.

My sister is getting married in 5 days. And she told me she was pregnant today. I couldn't stop crying. There's so much joy and sorrow that came with that.

I think that is a huge revelation - love without respect in a relationship is weak at best. Do you have specific reasons why you don't respect him?

 

[LaraOnline]

To expect your man to pay in terms of time, enjoyment and certainty now In his youth only to block opportunity for him to benefit from his lifetime of support and connection to you later once his personal opportunities are reduced due to age is a little entitled in my view. Depending on the terms of the pre nup of course but I guess you wouldn't want him to sign one unless there was a perceived benefit to yourself as an individual and as a professional. Perhaps your family encouraged you to take the pre nup route? A fact not lost on your partner, if so.

My complete guess is that even though you are never home you may take up a lot of space in the relationship lol which is perhaps why he preferred to keep his counselling a secret from you.

Anyway the dust will settle and my fervent wish is that you soon see a peaceful light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[anne_h]

Hi Allycat,

Sorry you are hurting so much right now. Relationships can affect us so much.

Statistically, the younger we are when we marry, the more likely we are to get divorced (first marriages). People evolve so much in the early parts of their lives... and not always along parallel lines.

I'm big on making data-driven decisions. Based on what you described in this thread, my impression is that the relationship is not really working so well anymore. It may be costing both of you more than it is benefiting.

It's human nature to avoid change. We like the familiar. But the familiar may not always yield a positive result.

Maybe it makes sense for you to spend some time pursuing your career without a partner. You could really focus on your needs and not have to worry about meeting anyone else's during this demanding time. 120 hours a week is a lot.

If you decide to separate, get ready for some extreme emotional pain. It's a PROCESS. Reacquaint yourself with the 5 stages of grieving.

If you decide to try to work this out, definitely get it sorted before you have any kids (if you decide to). Once kids are in the picture, decisions get even murkier. So beforehand, my advice is to be sure you are confident about your partner and your long-term viability.

BTW, take my opinion with a grain of salt. I am the careerist and independent one in my relationship, so my perspective may be biased.

Anne

PS - Also check out the interesting research on predictors for couples more likely to divorce... disdain/contempt (lack of respect) is one of the primary indicators.

 

[bliss_cathy]

Hi Allycat,

I think your husband is feeling very insecure at the moment. Can I ask why you don't you respect him, thats a very very important part of a relationship.

You're career is taking off and is a very consuming one and he is likely feeling very unsure of what his own future will be. I think on some level he is wondering what his role is in the relationship. Asking him to sign a pre nup would reinforce any inferiority he feels already and saying you may leave him after the residency would make him feel even more insecure and uncertain about his future. Moving out and leaving him for a week/month, packing your bags etc would further make him feel a loss of control and uncertain things. I am unsure why you would say you would leave him after working abroad? Not feeling respected on top of all of this, he is not in a good place right now.

The child thing in my opinion is a very delicate thing. Maybe some days he thinks he does want them and other days he doesn't know. This is delicate as in you both also know the reality of children is something you do actually need to consider now. As a pp mentioned freezing eggs is no guarantee, however you need to establish where your relationship is first before this.

I think he is doing the right thing going to a counseller. He really needs to find his own thing to be proud of something that identifies him as a person. Something he can be in control of. Men very rarely talk about emotions. I think the fact he is talking to someone is a huge indicator to you that he is hurting.

I do think when people meet their partners later in life, they have the benefit of having some life experience. They've had failed relationships, they've experienced heartbreak and they know what their regrets are, they know the deal breakers and they recognise when they've found that special person. They know how precious and beautiful that is and they don't damage it. Relationships need to be nurtured.

I hope you can be gentle to each other during this tumultuous time.

 

[LLJsmom]

I think there are two very complex issues going on at the moment. I am so sorry that you are in pain right now, please try to breath and try to reflect for while and don't do anything rash.

1) Your job does affect the relationship dynamic. My cousin is also married to a cardiology fellow, she also works the long crazy hours you are describing and is also due to work overseas in a couple years. My cousin, although he has his own business and people working for him, by default he has become the primary caregiver of their 2 year old son. Even before they had a child he would attend family get togethers alone as she would either be working/studying/too tired to come. His business has now just started to take off, so when she is due to work overseas, I am unsure at this stage how they will manage this. My guess is he will need to compromise for her career.

Another couple I know, the husband is a paediatrician, and the wife is an anaesthetist. He would always joke that he had the stay at home 'non job' side of the relationship. And this is between two specialised Drs, let alone a specialist physician and an 'insert other job here'.

I don't know what your speciality is but I do think that your job is your number 1 commitment at the moment. Depending on what you specialise in this will also affect your relationship even more. Your husband has a lot of time to think and be on his own and may in some part feel he is losing a sense of himself as the majority of the time he may feel he is supporting your career. This relationship dynamic is something that I think needs to be addressed and understood. At the moment I think it may have just happened organically as you have been together since 16 and it hasn't been actively thought about.

2) The children part. This is something very delicate and tender in my opinion. I think that the long hours you are working combined with the knowledge that he may not have children would compound even more the feelings he may be going through. He may be reflecting on his future is looking like and what that means for him.

These are just my thoughts and my own insights so I'm sorry in advance if I've said something wrong.

ETA- I just wanted to add, I don't know any of the relationship history, just what was in this post. Also, I didn't comment on the emails either.

Such wise advice!! Agree with the thoughtfulness of this post!! There are a lot of issues going on here.

 

[LLJsmom]

Allycat, big hugs to you. I'm so sorry you have to go through all this. Although I don't know your history, I do want to address something that you said at the beginning. You were "on the fence" about having children.

I just wanted to share my experience as a person who did NOT even want kids when we got married, but had them anyway. I've been married now for 16 years, and dated for 10 years before that. (I was 15 and he was 16 when we started going together.) I have an 11 year old boy and an 8 year old girl. I love them in a way that I never even understood love could be, and I love my wonderful husband even more.

When I got married, I did not want children. However, I told my husband I was willing to have them because he wanted them. And I loved him and wanted to be with him more than I did NOT want to have kids, if that makes sense. Deep inside I sure hoped that he would change his min. Well, 30 rolled around, and I couldn't delay it much longer, so I got pregnant. I knew it would break us up if I didn't. I was miserable my 9 months being pregnant, and even more miserable during my son's first year. I was angry, bitter, and didn't bond with my son. I was stressed out with being a new mother, working full time, (60-70 hour weeks, I'm a CPA) having a miserable time nursing, and had absolutely no interest in my husband. I'm sorry if some people reading this are shaking their heads in disapproval, but this was my experience and I'm just keeping it real...

Then when my son turned one year old, it's like someone flipped a switch. I all of a sudden started bonding with him, engaging, enjoying being a mother, even though everything else was still just as hard, long hours, nursing, crazy mood swings, wrecked house and neglected husband. I wanted another one, and soon after I got pregnant again and my daughter was born. This time, I was happy for the whole pregnancy, super excited when she was born, just happy to have our little family grow. It's forced me to grow and love in ways I never thought possible. I learned to become less selfish and more focused. It's given me such fulfillment to be responsible for the lives of my children. For me, it is a privilege, a pleasure and a blessing. But would I have ever thought this could have been possible 12 year ago. NEVER. Would I even have wanted it? Probably not.

Please, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that you are selfish if you don't want children. I am not saying you should have children. My impression is that you might, but you're not sure right now in your current situation. Maybe it is or it isn't the right time or person. But I'm saying that if you did, you never know what might happen. Note, I am NOT saying that you would be excited about it! But, it may not be the biggest mistake in the world either.

But, I must say one more thing. I could not have gotten through it if my husband wasn't a rock. He wanted a big family, so I let him take care of my son when I wasn't required to be there pretty much the whole first year. I emotionally could NOT cope. Seriously. (I probably should have been on medication, but instead I started running, which is a whole other post. He was there. No complaints. Other than directly nursing or pumping, he did it all. He bathed the baby, changed WAY more diapers than I did, took him to doctor appointments, out with him on errands, and just gave me SPACE. So I do think that your husband needs to be completely committed to taking on the lion's share of the duties if you have children, since your time is so limited.

Sorry this turned out to be longer than I expected. I just wanted to share an experience from a person who honestly was not at all looking forward to being a parent. I hope the best for you and your husband. I really do. God bless you both, whichever way you decide to go.

 

[allycat0303]

I'm exhausted. Just spent 2 hours talking to my sister.

There's things he does that I don't respect: he smokes pot occasionally (once- twice a month?) and he's drank too much and driven home (I wouldn't say a lot. I don't think it's happened this year) he can make irresponsible decisions. I respect many things about him on the flip side. He's got tremendous leadership skills, he works hard, is really good to his family. He's loyal. And he's a provider. Even at any sacrifice to his happiness, will do whatever job it takes to provide for me. Even if he's not happy, that's his number one priority.

He is definitely insecure about his job/ education. While I always felt there was something there, we all agree that in the past 6-7 months, it's become directed at me. Which I don't get, but my sister feels its because I'm finishing. While I'm no doubt he is proud in many ways, it's more pronounced.

There are things he clearly doesn't respect about me too. For example I'm messy and forgetful. I sometimes can be extremely indecisive about little things (should I buy this 20$ sweatshirt). He doesn't understand how I can be so decisive in the OR, but not on simple things.
I'm not sure that in a relationship, one can respect every facet of another person's personality. I don't know if that makes sense. I'm not sure I conveyed that too him. And while I often say he's selfish (about his time, leisure activities), I'm really selfish about my career.

So I'm just trying to sort it all out in my mind. Talking helps. Writing things down too. It might be moot in the outcome, but understanding is important for me to accept and move on.

LlJsMom: thank you for sharing your experience. It just profoundly touched me because it was raw and honest. At worked 7 months straight (no day off, at the Montreal Childrens Hopsital) and loved it!!! I'm drawn to children, more so ages 2-4,
I suspect that part of it is that I'm constantly overwhelmed and stressed that I can't imagine being responsible for more. Right now, the circumstances are impossible. But they might not always be like that.

 

[TooPatient]

I'm exhausted. Just spent 2 hours talking to my sister.

There's things he does that I don't respect: he smokes pot occasionally (once- twice a month?) and he's drank too much and driven home (I wouldn't say a lot. I don't think it's happened this year) he can make irresponsible decisions. I respect many things about him on the flip side. He's got tremendous leadership skills, he works hard, is really good to his family. He's loyal. And he's a provider. Even at any sacrifice to his happiness, will do whatever job it takes to provide for me. Even if he's not happy, that's his number one priority.

He is definitely insecure about his job/ education. While I always felt there was something there, we all agree that in the past 6-7 months, it's become directed at me. Which I don't get, but my sister feels its because I'm finishing. While I'm no doubt he is proud in many ways, it's more pronounced.

There are things he clearly doesn't respect about me too. For example I'm messy and forgetful. I sometimes can be extremely indecisive about little things (should I buy this 20$ sweatshirt). He doesn't understand how I can be so decisive in the OR, but not on simple things.
I'm not sure that in a relationship, one can respect every facet of another person's personality. I don't know if that makes sense. I'm not sure I conveyed that too him. And while I often say he's selfish (about his time, leisure activities), I'm really selfish about my career.

So I'm just trying to sort it all out in my mind. Talking helps. Writing things down too. It might be moot in the outcome, but understanding is important for me to accept and move on.

LlJsMom: thank you for sharing your experience. It just profoundly touched me because it was raw and honest. At worked 7 months straight (no day off, at the Montreal Childrens Hopsital) and loved it!!! I'm drawn to children, more so ages 2-4,
I suspect that part of it is that I'm constantly overwhelmed and stressed that I can't imagine being responsible for more. Right now, the circumstances are impossible. But they might not always be like that.

Ally -- Big hugs!

I'm so sorry you're going through this. You've been given amazing advice so far. I think you really need to sit down and think about what you want and then have a talk with your husband. If you don't, he's going to make the choice on his own and be out of your life for good. If you want that then talk to him and move in that direction. If you DON'T want that then you need to take the time to talk to him -- set aside an hour a week to just BE together (no complaining, no cleaning, no chores, just chill out together) and tell him how much you appreciate _______ (fill in with all the good stuff you've mentioned). Try to go to a hockey game with him every now and then. Talk about how much more relaxed things will be after you're done and the good things you have to look forward to.

Oh -- and look at the bolded! Do you not respect him or does he have little things that bug you? Two VERY VERY different things! Who doesn't have little things that bug them!?! (for a good laugh, find the thread entitled "MEN!" and the other "WOMEN!" -- really worth it!)

 

[luvsdmb]

Leave him. I'm sorry to say it, but in the long run having a broken heart for a little while will be easier compared to looking back at this thread and reading all the signs that are there but you can't really see because right now you love him. My ex was the exact same way, I ended it, cried for about a week, was sad, then the anger set it. It sucks but you can do it!!
I now realize daily how much my ex did not love by the fact of how much my husband does.

 

[arkieb1]

I think it is an interesting comment that he doesn't want to be a stay at home Dad and I think the way your work schedule is you don't want to be a stay at home Mum either. I can tell you a little about my own experience, my husband used to be away from home on business, mostly overseas more than half the year, more like 3/4s of the year..... I had a child which he really wanted and I didn't and I grew deeply angry and resentful that he was a mostly absent husband and father, it always seemed like his work was more important than everything else..... We fought a lot. Children in my humble opinion put an even bigger divide in the cracks in a relationship.

Anyway it got to the point where we were ready to divorce each other then my husband I think had a lightbulb moment. Now he works a good career around our son, he also does school pick ups and drop offs and we take turns in going to things at the school, depending upon who is busy that day. We take turns at doing things for each other, there is no resentment and it is a much happier place for everyone. Everyone helps out and we work towards family cohesion. It is like a tag team with a common goal.

You need to work out what your priorities are, and what his are and see if you can negotiate a middle ground that works for everyone, leaves everyone feeling happy and not neglected, everyone feeling their priorities matter and that they matter, with a backbone of respect for each other and a set of common goals you both have. If you cannot do that then it is time to move on.

 

[missy]

allycat, I just want to send you hugs and best wishes for a happy resolution no matter the final outcome. You have received a lot of thoughtful advice here but no one is in your relationship but the 2 of you and there are a lot of complex issues happening (as is the case for most relationships). I know that I wouldn't give up all you have with this man until exhausting all avenues including couples counseling. Individual therapy can be very helpful but not instead of couples therapy for your marriage. And ofc nothing takes the place of communication so the 2 of you need to be talking to each other about what is going on honestly and openly. Sending you good thoughts and strength to come to the right decision for you.

 

[JulieN]

Hi, ally. Sorry you are going through this.

You work 120hrs/week, don't respect him, and want him to be more supportive. You aren't sure whether you want him to follow you to your fellowship, told him you were leaving him, and made him sign a post-nup. Do I have it right?

This relationship is not working. If you two want to stay together, it is going to take a lot of work.

 

[Tekate]

Good advice below from JulieN.. I started dating my ex at 17 and we split at age 32.. RESPECT.. to quote the great Aretha if any of you remember her.. I am 61.. My first husband told me the nite before we were to marry that he decided he DIDNT want kids after 5 years of telling me he did.. I thought it was a mental blip (wrong)... he didn't respect me.. he thought my education at a state college was inferior to his private nationally recognized USA college.. his SAT scores were perfect (not mine).. I graduated that lowly state college with a higher cum avg than he did.. point: respect has to be there.. I've been married 26 years with husband number 2 and had two sons with him.. it's been GREAT with rocky roads occasionally.. I don't always respect him.. he's a wimp on ocassion.. he's not a fighter he's a stonewaller and he's passive/aggressive.. but I am a yeller and hardly passive and am agressive.. but there was always this 'attraction' thing, our goals were mutual.. have a family, buy a house, travel, SEX.. sorry ladies I am old I know but sex was very important to me when I was younger..my first husband was selfish, self involved and hardly gave me a thought, not so number 2..

when i went thru counseling after #1 left for a 19 year old girl..the first counselor was not helpful (always dump your counselor if they talk more about themselves than about you!) but the second brought out 'enlightenment' to me.. He made me see that it wasn't enough to 'give all' to my husband it was important to be given to also.. not stuff, not sex, but given RESPECT, love, admiration, mutual desire, mutual GOALS.. if you don't have somewhat the same life drawn goals then it just won't work.. if you want a nationally recognized medical career and he wants to live in upstate NY (say) and live in the town he grew up in, girl there isn't a snowballs chance in hell it can work... give and take of course..but being thrown into caregiver 24/7 of kids and you don't want it can make for HUGE problems.

I'm product driven as a poster above said she was.. you want results.. this feeling you have of settling is not results driven.. you will not be happy down the road if this man isnt your equal in what you WANT as an equal, not status wise.. My brother in law married a wonderful, GREAT pediatric cardiologist ... we all thought GOD! he's got it made etc.. but as time went on he become jealous of her money and the power she had in the relationship because she made more than he did so he wouldn't let her use her money.. true! she inherited tons of money (millions) they don't spend a dime of their house to be fixed up.. it's incredibly sad.. when in reality they should have shared and had mutual love but he's jealous of her earning power and her inheritance so he does not let them use it.. it's bizarre really, I tell you what I told her: if you don't feel happy, if your needs are not met, if this does NOT FEEL GOOD to you, then end it.. do not settle. They seem to be doing better, she says so.. she gave him ultimatums and so far they seem much happier.

Having children will just force you both to stay in a relationship that may NOT be the right one, and kid(s) can sense this in a nano.. one nano and they know mom and dad don't get along and it's stressful..

if you always need to balance and think and adjust yourself and your career then this relationship should be ended, if there is true respect, love and caring then by all means GET on the same page and move forward.

I, as all women my age want happiness for the younger people.. you DESERVE to be happy - remember that.

Hi, ally. Sorry you are going through this.

You work 120hrs/week, don't respect him, and want him to be more supportive. You aren't sure whether you want him to follow you to your fellowship, told him you were leaving him, and made him sign a post-nup. Do I have it right?

This relationship is not working. If you two want to stay together, it is going to take a lot of work.

 

[CrazyBirdLady]

Hi, ally. Sorry you are going through this.

You work 120hrs/week, don't respect him, and want him to be more supportive. You aren't sure whether you want him to follow you to your fellowship, told him you were leaving him, and made him sign a post-nup. Do I have it right?

This relationship is not working. If you two want to stay together, it is going to take a lot of work.

Well said JulieN. I'm not sure any relationship can survive someone working 120 hours a week.

 

[rosetta]

I'm really sorry you're going through this ally!

As a fellow doctor, I'm going to give it to you straight. You know I know the life, god knows I've done the hours. It's effing hard on relationships. Only the rock solid ones survive.

You and your husband aren't on the same page. At all. You don't respect him. You don't trust him with your money (the pre nup). You don't want kids (admit it. You're working flat out. How are you going to raise kids working 120 hrs a week?) He is jealous of your career. He doesn't really want to give up his job to follow your fellowship. He really wants kids (he just said he didn't so he could stay with you).

You may love each other, but you both want different lives to the ones you have now. You've both been compromising, but a compromise can only work if you both are truly ok with said compromise. You're not, are you?

Yon simply can't go on like this. Either you both need to make drastic changes (and make your peace with these changes) or go your separate ways.

Here's what I would do, if I wanted to stay in this marriage: reduce my work hours, have kids, destroy the pre-nup, ask him to change his hours so he does most of childcare (but make sure I also work less so I do some), ask him to give up the pot.

If neither of you wants to change the status quo, then things will get worse and you might as well call time now.

I'm sorry if I've been too blunt. Big cyber hugs xoxo

 

[aljdewey]

Ally, nice to see you again - wish it were under better conditions.

It doesn't surprise me that he's refused to participating in freezing eggs - it's because he already knows what you're just now coming to terms with: that this relationship is unlikely to sustain.

You work 120 hours a week (little time for marriage). You don't respect him. You've asked him for a pre-nup. And, you've admitted here that you were considering leaving the relationship yourself after fellowship. Between the pre-nup and the thoughts of leaving him once your fellowship is completed, it would seem you're already emotionally leaving this relationship, and he knows it so it makes sense that he would not want to commit himself to being left holding the bag with children when it does crumble.

If I were honest, I'd tell you that I've been anticipating this post for a very long time - even since before you married. You two have had a very unsettled relationship for years before you married; there seems to have been this hesitancy and holding back. It's long felt like you both traveled down this path more to meet expectations. Recalling your many posts in the years prior to your marriage, I think in your heart you've known this wasn't the right relationship for you, but you couldn't accept it. I feel like there were so many red flags along the way, but I think you both wanted to believe that going through with the marriage would somehow resolve them.

As it stands now, he's realized he's not getting what he needs out of the relationship, and if you're honest with yourself, you've likely known that you aren't getting what you need from it either. Don't save something that doesn't work for the sake of saving it - all that does is keep you both from moving on to relationships where you can get what you need.

You cannot fix that you don't respect him, and candidly, I can't think of a relationship that can function without it. Respect (or lack thereof) sets the tone for how you engage with each other - how you problem-solve, how you compromise, and how much you dedicate yourselves to making yourselves and each other happy. Without that, it just doesn't work.

I'm sorry that it's taken this extremely long journey to arrive at this place, but you've arrived here for a reason. Now it's up to you to be honest with yourself and him about why you're in this spot and make the right choices for yourself going forward. I know you can do it.

 

[Smith1942]

Hi Alleycat,

You've received some sterling advice in this thread, from people who have been there and done that. I'm no expert on marriage, but I'll add my two cents' worth. FYI, I've been married for almost eight years, no kids yet.

Firstly, I'm always sad to see the end of a marriage advocated. Unless there is physical abuse and repeated affairs, I think the marriages of couples who have been together a long time are worth a shot at saving.

Think how your life will look after a divorce. Look, if divorce is truly the best thing for you, then don't be talked out of it, but do think about this very, very carefully. Many men out there are absolutely awful. And as you get older, there are fewer good ones out there. Also, as you get older, generally it's harder to meet people. I'm not trying to scare you away from divorce, but you need to remember that it's a hard world out there. Also, once divorced, you will have to manage your entire household yourself while working flat-out: paying all the bills, sorting out the myriad domestic things that come up like calling the cable guy, yelling at the health insurer, arranging for the plumber to come and yourself having to be home to let him in, doing the cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping, house maintenance, car maintenance, getting home late from work and having to cook - you will have to do your whole life yourself, on top of your job.

And don't forget this: You will have another relationship, and guess what? That one will have problems too! Perhaps bigger problems than now. ALL relationships have problems. I heard one woman say - and perhaps this is a bit reductive - but it was something along the lines of that she divorced a man at 35 and married someone very similar at 50, and that men are not that different from each other, and really she'd just switched seats on the Titanic.

Look, it's true that some divorces are meant to be. But think twice, and really imagine how your life will be afterward. I'm thinking that unless you're a true loner, you probably don't want to be by yourself for the rest of your life. So if you divorce, don't you immediately have a new problem? That is, you still need to find a partner. And it will be much more difficult, and perhaps more pressured, if you still want the option of having children. That would mean you'd have to get your skates on with regard to meeting someone new. Don't kid yourself: Divorce will bring new, different problems. You can pretty much count on that. You can Google it, but I think the statistic is that a third of people regret their divorces. It's not just about the now, it's about living your life afterwards as a single person again. How do you feel about that?

About the career issue: Is there any reason why you absolutely must take a fellowship abroad? Maybe you could give that up for him? Or is it an essential part of your career progression? How long would it be for? If it's just a year or two, your husband might enjoy the chance to live abroad, if things were better between you.

I will say this about careers: Don't set too much store by them. In the final reckoning, they are not the be-all and end-all. As you advance, the politics get more complex, the knives sharper, the stress levels just get more intense. I decided it just wasn't worth it, what it was doing to me and my health. Now I work at home for myself, and although I earn less, I'm much happier. You sound as if you have a great career; just be aware that dedicating everything you've got to a career can turn out to be the worship of a false god. In the corporate world, a company can get sold or go bankrupt. In the medical world, doctors can get sued. A surgeon in Boston who is quite well-known as he is a doctor for the Red Sox was interviewed for Boston Med, and after doing 12,000 operations he said, "What will drive me crazy, what will make me stop, is the problems, the bad outcomes, the people you can't make better." He sounded pretty fed up, to be honest. I'm sorry to sound a bit of a downer, but you could end up at 45 just treating patient after patient and wishing you had not dedicated quite so much of your fountain of youth to your career, because most careers end up a bit of a treadmill.

As another poster has said, you two have loved each other for a long time. I'm not privy to the back story between you. Although it sounds as if it's been hard, there must have been something good there for the two of you to stay together this long.

It does sound as if you've been giving him some serious cause for doubt about your future and perhaps some mixed messages, with the post-nup and talk about leaving him after the fellowship. My guess is that he is resenting you right now. I think I would be, in his shoes. I agree with posters who say that 120 hours is hard on a marriage; people get married expecting to have time and laughs and leisure time with their partner. They expect to be together. Without time together to actually have a relationship, you're just room-mates.

About the emails, were they getting-to-know-you emails or were they actually sexual? Any emailing of that kind with another woman is not OK, but maybe he was using it to bolster his sense of self-worth. I mean, it doesn't sound as if you have a lot of time for him, either literally or emotionally. Doctors garner so much respect for what they do that it must be hard for some to feel good about themselves when their partner is out saving lives every day, you know? If you add relationship troubles onto that, and a lack of respect towards the non-doctor partner, it must be pretty hard for that partner to always maintain a firm grip on their confidence. The emails are not OK, but is it possible that the interest from the other woman made him feel good again? Maybe he was just testing the waters and reassuring himself that he can still attract others, since he'd be forgiven for thinking the marriage is shaky, what with the post-nup coming 5 years in. Again, while not OK, perhaps the emails could be overcome. We don't know their content. But if they were sexual, then that's a different ballgame.

About the respect thing, spouses know each other like no one else does, every foible and weakness and childish moment. I don't think it's realistic to maintain some golden level of respect for each other all the time. People have feet of clay and no one sees the clay more clearly than a spouse. My husband has a ton of professional respect and is very well-known and looked-up-to in his career, but there is a part of him that is pure, out-and-out toddler. He acts like a complete baby sometimes. I have no respect whatsoever for that part of his personality, but I respect other parts of him a lot, like when he helped out his niece with college as she has no parents. It's a constant puzzle as to how he can simultaneously be a mature provider and also at times a total baby. And that's the sort of personality quirk only a spouse would know. There are parts of all of us that others would find difficult to respect, I'm sure.

You sound as if you don't know what you want, and you also sound very emotional. I'm guessing that you're worn-out by this residency. How much longer of the doing 120 hours a week do you have to go? I think you said you're close to finishing? Perhaps a lot of the current problems are due to the incredible strain that residency has put on both of you. I really would not make any decisions until residency is over and you've had time to recover a little. Perhaps you need a vacation from work.

I would shelve the kids issue for now. Like you say, if you were less time-pressured and the relationship was better, maybe you'd feel more like having them. I honestly don't think you can make a decision about kids with all this pressure. Just imagine the choice was taken away from you - imagine the Government suddenly banned everyone from having kids for ten years. How would you feel about this relationship then?

I also think that kids....you know, they grow up and go away. And once they do, many parents don't hear from them all that much. What you're left with, again, is your relationship. My friend's dad - incidentally, a doctor too - said to her when she got married: "Of course, you love your children, but they shouldn't be everything."

I think that careers shouldn't be everything and kids shouldn't be everything. Careers can go horribly wrong or just become a real grind, and children grow up and go away - sometimes far away. But in the grand reckoning, it will be you and your husband again. It will be you two left to love and care for each other in old age and illness, while any children might be living on the other side of the world, or they may marry someone who doesn't like to see family, or you might have different personalities. And remember that if you divorce, a new relationship will just bring new problems.

What I'm trying to say is, through all this career/kids stuff, at the end of the day what really matters is this marriage. Everything else flows from that and when you retire and the kids are gone, it's just you two again. If you divorce, by age 65 will you regret what could have been? Will you think to yourself, "Wow, residency really was crazy and what a pity it split us up. Maybe we could have worked through it, had kids in my late thirties and we'd be enjoying our golden years now."

Just think it through, is what I'm saying.

Good luck, and many hugs.

 

[movie zombie]

I find it odd that the man that insists he wants kids also says he is not willing to be a stay at home dad.

he will be happier with a more traditional marriage with a woman that is not career driven.

it is not true that you can have everything as a career woman.
there are always trade offs.
one trade off is having a nanny raise your children instead of you or your husband.

I think I agree with the above poster that said your hubby said he didn't want kids so he could be with you. now that reality is hitting home and he has said that if he stays with you it will be for a life of luxury, well, the writing is on the wall and you're just not wanting to accept what it says.

if you stay with this man now, the eventual break up with kids down the road is going to be even worse than having it happen now.

your choice: get out now with the only collateral damage being to your dignity and feelings or later after your kids are involved and hurting. because they will know things aren't right and they will grow up learning that how you and your husband interact is how relationships are supposed to be.

your choice.

 

[rubyshoes]

allycat,

Your posts made me feel really bad for you and your situation. You have already been given some amazing advice... I don't really have a lot to add. A very close friend is going through a similar situation right now and I have held her hand many nights as she cried. I wish you a lot of courage, clarity and grace. No matter what happens, you have friends here rooting for you. (hugs)

 

[innerkitten]

Phew! I just read most of those replies. Very good advice. I just want to say I'm sorry that you're in such a bad place right now.

 

[Gypsy]

Smith, for the love. She's 33. She's young. There are lots of men out there.

The relationship is abusive. Has been for a long time. And it's mutual. You don't have to physically hit someone to abuse them.

You should go back and read Ally's old posts.

And scaring someone into staying in an abusive relationship because there may not be a lot of good fish left in the sea.....

I am married. Have been with my husband since 1999. And I advocate for saving marriage where I can. But there are huge problems and red flags here, and frankly, these two shouldn't have married in the first place (and we tried to talk her out of it).

 

[zoebartlett]

Ally, I'm sorry you're going through this. Others have given you great advice, so I just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you. I know you've been through a lot over the years.