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Has anyone been following Genesis Diamonds/EGL Intl thing?

ame

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
10,873
I kind of have, not as strictly as I'd like to admit, though.

The jeweler in Nashville that really "blew the lid off" the whole thing with Genesis has this whole thing timelined on his site. It's fascinating. I remember posting about the Genesis thing when I saw the one video, and I know it got discussed a bit on here. People have sued him, and it's actually gone further now with RICO laws, class action suits...It's incredible. So Mr. Forster has basically used his own money to do this, and the ripple effect was that it shut down EGL International. He didn't really "gain" anything by doing this, other than make sure people weren't getting hosed. But look at what this will do to the industry.

http://diamondoutlet.co/timeline/

More of the story...
http://diamondoutlet.co/the-facts-you-decide/

There's also PDF on his site from Rapaport as well that's interesting, about honest grading:
http://diamondoutlet.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Special_Report_Honest_Grading_1.pdf

I know this topic has been discussed on here--the "you don't know what you're really getting" if you don't buy a stone graded from a legit lab like GIA, AGS or even EGL-USA (not affiliated with International AND they might be a hair looser but they're really not that loose in my experience). There's lots of politics even within those reputable labs but they still set the standards and there is a reason they're the respected labs.

Is anyone else totally blown away by all of this?
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,774
Re: Has anyone been following Genesis Diamonds/EGL Intl thin

ame|1421243761|3816192 said:
I kind of have, not as strictly as I'd like to admit, though.

The jeweler in Nashville that really "blew the lid off" the whole thing with Genesis has this whole thing timelined on his site. It's fascinating. I remember posting about the Genesis thing when I saw the one video, and I know it got discussed a bit on here. People have sued him, and it's actually gone further now with RICO laws, class action suits...It's incredible. So Mr. Forster has basically used his own money to do this, and the ripple effect was that it shut down EGL International. He didn't really "gain" anything by doing this, other than make sure people weren't getting hosed. But look at what this will do to the industry.

http://diamondoutlet.co/timeline/

More of the story...
http://diamondoutlet.co/the-facts-you-decide/

There's also PDF on his site from Rapaport as well that's interesting, about honest grading:
http://diamondoutlet.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Special_Report_Honest_Grading_1.pdf

I know this topic has been discussed on here--the "you don't know what you're really getting" if you don't buy a stone graded from a legit lab like GIA, AGS or even EGL-USA (not affiliated with International AND they might be a hair looser but they're really not that loose in my experience). There's lots of politics even within those reputable labs but they still set the standards and there is a reason they're the respected labs.

Is anyone else totally blown away by all of this?
Yes, it is a topic that has rocked the industry with repercussions far and wide. And there has been some lively conversation here on the forum:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network.205934/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network.205934/[/URL]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapaport-honest-grading-calls-to-end-egl-int-overgrading.207812/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapaport-honest-grading-calls-to-end-egl-int-overgrading.207812/[/URL]

Thanks for posting the diamond outlet pages Ame. It is interesting to drill down to the local "diamond wars" level.
 

ame

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
10,873
Re: Has anyone been following Genesis Diamonds/EGL Intl thin

Texas Leaguer|1421244844|3816200 said:
ame|1421243761|3816192 said:
I kind of have, not as strictly as I'd like to admit, though.

The jeweler in Nashville that really "blew the lid off" the whole thing with Genesis has this whole thing timelined on his site. It's fascinating. I remember posting about the Genesis thing when I saw the one video, and I know it got discussed a bit on here. People have sued him, and it's actually gone further now with RICO laws, class action suits...It's incredible. So Mr. Forster has basically used his own money to do this, and the ripple effect was that it shut down EGL International. He didn't really "gain" anything by doing this, other than make sure people weren't getting hosed. But look at what this will do to the industry.

http://diamondoutlet.co/timeline/

More of the story...
http://diamondoutlet.co/the-facts-you-decide/

There's also PDF on his site from Rapaport as well that's interesting, about honest grading:
http://diamondoutlet.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Special_Report_Honest_Grading_1.pdf

I know this topic has been discussed on here--the "you don't know what you're really getting" if you don't buy a stone graded from a legit lab like GIA, AGS or even EGL-USA (not affiliated with International AND they might be a hair looser but they're really not that loose in my experience). There's lots of politics even within those reputable labs but they still set the standards and there is a reason they're the respected labs.

Is anyone else totally blown away by all of this?
Yes, it is a topic that has rocked the industry with repercussions far and wide. And there has been some lively conversation here on the forum:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network.205934/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapnet-bans-egl-reports-from-trading-network.205934/[/URL]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapaport-honest-grading-calls-to-end-egl-int-overgrading.207812/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rapaport-honest-grading-calls-to-end-egl-int-overgrading.207812/[/URL]

Thanks for posting the diamond outlet pages Ame. It is interesting to drill down to the local "diamond wars" level.
AH! Thank you for those. I kept searching for the threads but searching to find the right ones was bringing up just a ton of threads that were unrelated. I knew about the Rapnet and Polygon stuff, and I KNEW those had been discussed here. I had no idea really how far it had gone until reading that timeline. It's incredible what one man can do to change the face of an industry.
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,774
Re: Has anyone been following Genesis Diamonds/EGL Intl thin

If anyone is interested in a related real world case involving one of our pricescope community members, there is a drama in progess now at the thread below:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/need-advice-diamond-dealer-wont-honor-return-policy.209574/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/need-advice-diamond-dealer-wont-honor-return-policy.209574/[/URL]

In that thread John Pollard makes a very interesting point about inflated appraisals that are often imbedded with questionable certs. Aparently this practice is only tolerated in the US market, at least as far as IGI is concerned. Is this maybe the next shoe to fall in the industry clean up? One can only hope.

Below is John's observation from the thread above. Although his comments pertain specifically to IGI, EGL has been using a similar practice for years:

John Pollard|1421191083|3815976 said:
DJHoliday|1421189280|3815960 said:
He kept telling me how my diamond should have appraised for twice the appraisal value and IGI would have appraised it for that.
IGI's Appraisal-Reports which include a value are notoriously inflated and famously misused by salespeople to demonstrate what a "bargain" a piece is.

For DJ Holiday: IGI New York has stated that the value on these "Appraisal-Reports" is a Peak-Insurance-Replacement value. That means they're printing what it might cost in an Aspen ski-shop, a casino shop in Dubai, or delivered to your honeymoon suite at the Prague Four Seasons from their lobby's jewelry store. They've regularly said that jewelers misusing their printed value is something that is out of their hands.

An aside for regular readers: The New York office of IGI is their only lab location that issues those reports. Their other global locations don't engage in such nonsense. It's unfortunate because, in the global picture, IGI loose diamond grading reports are strict and consistent. But we must be vigilant in the USA because the output of those "Appraisal Reports" eclipses the output of their reliable loose diamond reports here.
 

akoya

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2014
Messages
102
Re: Has anyone been following Genesis Diamonds/EGL Intl thin

err so what do jeweller that accept returns do to the rings?
 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,774
Re: Has anyone been following Genesis Diamonds/EGL Intl thin

akoya|1421252730|3816258 said:
err so what do jeweller that accept returns do to the rings?
Simple- resell them for what they really are.

If the original selling prices were discounted enough to reflected their true value (which is how most merchants dealing in these certs justify the practice), then they should not take a big hit. Those that took advantage of their customers from a pricing perspective will be punished the most. And that is how it should be.
 

akoya

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2014
Messages
102
Re: Has anyone been following Genesis Diamonds/EGL Intl thin

so only the boss will know if he put that ring up for sale later on (@ a discount price or full price or he reset it lol) ... he was saying he cannot put it up for sale when the ring is returned....
i hope he didnt get a marked up pearl strand. pearls can be horribly marked up too :(
 

ame

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
10,873
Re: Has anyone been following Genesis Diamonds/EGL Intl thin

Texas Leaguer|1421250239|3816235 said:
If anyone is interested in a related real world case involving one of our pricescope community members, there is a drama in progess now at the thread below:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/need-advice-diamond-dealer-wont-honor-return-policy.209574/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/need-advice-diamond-dealer-wont-honor-return-policy.209574/[/URL]

In that thread John Pollard makes a very interesting point about inflated appraisals that are often imbedded with questionable certs. Aparently this practice is only tolerated in the US market, at least as far as IGI is concerned. Is this maybe the next shoe to fall in the industry clean up? One can only hope.

Below is John's observation from the thread above. Although his comments pertain specifically to IGI, EGL has been using a similar practice for years:

John Pollard|1421191083|3815976 said:
DJHoliday|1421189280|3815960 said:
He kept telling me how my diamond should have appraised for twice the appraisal value and IGI would have appraised it for that.
IGI's Appraisal-Reports which include a value are notoriously inflated and famously misused by salespeople to demonstrate what a "bargain" a piece is.

For DJ Holiday: IGI New York has stated that the value on these "Appraisal-Reports" is a Peak-Insurance-Replacement value. That means they're printing what it might cost in an Aspen ski-shop, a casino shop in Dubai, or delivered to your honeymoon suite at the Prague Four Seasons from their lobby's jewelry store. They've regularly said that jewelers misusing their printed value is something that is out of their hands.

An aside for regular readers: The New York office of IGI is their only lab location that issues those reports. Their other global locations don't engage in such nonsense. It's unfortunate because, in the global picture, IGI loose diamond grading reports are strict and consistent. But we must be vigilant in the USA because the output of those "Appraisal Reports" eclipses the output of their reliable loose diamond reports here.
Yes the IGI thing is a big deal, to me anyway. I cringe at IGI simply because their reliability and reputability is, IMO, questionable, in light of that "appraisal" thing. That makes me write them off. Unfair, perhaps, but I just lose trust for them as an organization.
 
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