This is scary--ripping people off and defending it...

[ame]

http://www.wsmv.com/story/25435522/questions-about-the-quality-of-diamonds-at-nashvilles-best-known-jeweler

 

[pandabee]

Ugh. Makes me sick! Hence why we always tell people to make sure you look at where you get your lab report from...otherwise like the article says, you're not comparing apples to apples!

 

[Just_Starting]

That's exactly what many jewellers over here do. I walk into shops ask about the rings and they say that it's the certificate you're paying for (e.g. paying for GIA cert instead of IGI) and that the stones are the same. It's a nice scam. I found it interesting AGS weren't mentioned in that video though. Anyway, good video thanks for the link .

 

[msop04]

That's exactly what many jewellers over here do. I walk into shops ask about the rings and they say that it's the certificate you're paying for (e.g. paying for GIA cert instead of IGI) and that the stones are the same. It's a nice scam. I found it interesting AGS weren't mentioned in that video though. Anyway, good video thanks for the link .

Ditto this -- I've found that when I start asking (what I believe to be) simple questions, the salespeople get a little miffed. Once I had a "diamond expert" argue with me when I said I wanted to see some stones with fluorescence BECAUSE I LIKED IT. She insisted that I didn't want it and that it is never a good thing, blah blah blah... guess who I'm never dealing with for my upgrade?? Her loss!

 

[ame]

This whole story reminds me of a little misadventure I went on about maybe a year ago when I went to look at a couple of settings that a local jeweler had in his shop. This is a VERY well respected jeweler with more than one location up in a richyrich part of town, the locals will know that starts with a V. Anyway, I was there partly for someone else and partly for myself, and I was really taking to the SA I worked with, and seriously considering one of these settings for myself, though now I'd buy it from anyone but this place.

When the salesperson walked away to polish my plain band, I saw the ANTI-INTERNET-JEWELER postings all around his shop, including the "take one" display with fliers pretty clearly tearing internet jewelers a new one. I wish I'd taken one... The owner wandered over to me to chat. He saw my engagement diamond, and this guy was suddenly all kinds of interested in my stone, asking tons of questions, and I was telling him about the angles and how well cut it was, and we discussed training and education and how I learned in the beginning from an online forum (aka HERE) and eventually got training from the GIA and all that and if I was going to work in the industry, or if I did already. (Nope.)

And then I dropped the bombshell that totally changed everything: I said I found a lot of great online vendors through here, which is where I got this diamond and several other of my pieces from, and the ASET and Idealscope images were fabulous, the brilliancescope and firescope and ISEE2 and all the scores were fantastic to match the angles, and his face changed immediately. He pointed to the signs and went on a tear about how I got played, sold a fake and who really educated me since clearly I cannot identify a fake and my education means nothing if I can't identify fakes. Meanwhile his salesperson brought me my plain band back and I put my rings back on my hand, mostly because by this point I thought he was going to throw my ring across the room he was getting so angry.

Then I said yknow, I'm trained, just like I said, as you claim to also be trained, and I've had my stone graded by the top three major labs to see how they compared, for my own amusement really, and I can show them to him, I have screenshots on my phone! So if I supposedly have a "fake" how did he not immediately identify it as such? Then I went on about how I find the AGS to be more of a promising lab to grade cut quality than GIA and he looked at me like his head was about to fly off his neck and said "get out of my store."

It was the best day of my life in the jewelry "game," quite frankly. This guy had no idea what his competitors were doing, he has no idea what's out there in terms of quality. He just hates that he's competing against the internet and that a customer came into his store with any amount of education. It was both hilarious and TERRIFYING to me.

 

[fritzi]

Wow! That is quite a story. I think the owner fears educated people because you are able to see through their lies/sales techniques. It is scary that so many people fall victim to an emotional purchase that was not as described. Thank goodness for online education!

 

[Karl_K]

Ame that cracks me up even though it isn't funny.
I have had the same experience over the years.

The best one was right after jck and the slide was shown with my screen name calling out gia and ags.
So your the uppity $@^@!$^@ who thinks gia should kiss his rear. Then they asked me to leave.

These days When I talk about Octavia it really blows their mind!

 

[oldminer]

When I see a jewelry store owner or a diamond retailer claiming that EGL International reports have any standing comparable to GIA or AGS, or even EGL-USA, it makes me sick at heart. It is common knowledge that there are quite a few good labs, a relatively small number of truly expert and accurate ones, many of no special merit and a few which are notoriously bad. There is only ONE (1) reason to offer diamonds with bad paper. It is pretty obvious what that reason would be. For an owner to sit calmly in his chair and defend the practice like it is just the way it is infuriates me. These sort of practices steal the good business that honest sellers would enjoy otherwise by deception and guile.

Of course, the TV channel is getting it somewhat wrong, too. It is a complex matter and the TV folks really don't have a good handle on what jewelry is worth second hand versus new. You can't expect to sell your jewelry for retail if you suddenly wish to sell it for cash. The appraisal is often an inflated sales tool, but you can't believe in the tooth fairly and you can't believe you will get so lucky to retail your one fine diamond for retail value just when you find it convenient. It would rarely happen, maybe never.

It might even be that consumers often pay a price which is right for the actual GIA grade of the diamond in spite of the bad paper with inflated grading. This makes a mockery of the system and does not allow a consumer any benefit of making a "good deal". Whether the price is fair or not, the misrepresentation is often very real. The bargain one thought one had is not there and the diamond is not nearly as good as you might be led to believe it was.

I hope any customers wishing to get a fair deal get some assistance from the TV channel and from the local DA, too. This is not the first time things like this have happened and likely won't be the last.

(MY 6000 post!!!! YEAH)

 

[ame]

Ame that cracks me up even though it isn't funny.
I have had the same experience over the years.

The best one was right after jck and the slide was shown with my screen name calling out gia and ags.
So your the uppity $@^@!$^@ who thinks gia should kiss his rear. Then they asked me to leave.

These days When I talk about Octavia it really blows their mind!

I bet!!!

I literally walked out his door laughing. It still makes me giggle. In fact, this made me go by there tonight because I was up nearby there to drop something off for someone after work. So I pulled into that plaza and smashed my face against his window like a lunatic (his shop was closed already for the day) to see if he still had all his paraphernalia on the walls, and he still does, plus a few more. All nicely displayed beside all his JVC and GIA paperwork in frames. lolz If I didn't already draw enough attention to myself flinging my fat face against the glass for his security cameras to see, I'd have taken a photo.

 

[DC519]

I love, love, love, love diamonds with fluorescence! I have am slowly beginning the search and saving for a round one that has this. And warm diamonds. I was once told I didn't want a "J" color diamond because it would be "TOO YELLOW" which yes, it's not a D color, but it's by no means comparable to a corn kernel--geeze!

 

[allowingtoo]

I Googled the store owners name and had a good time following up on reading about him. That was interesting.

Wow. I had no idea EGL was so bad. And then I saw this. Cut-Excellent, Polish-Excellent, Symmetry-Excellent. Ideal Plus. I ran it through the HCA and it failed miserably.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-04CT-J-VS1-Round-EGL-USA-Certified-Natural-Loose-Diamond-904534403-/111325294569?pt=Loose_Diamonds&hash=item19eb812fe9
Light Return - good
Fire - fair
Scintillation - fair
Spread - very good
4.7

 

[LLJsmom]

Scary is right. He fully believes that he is NOT doing anything wrong. If potential customers aren't going into his store fully educated, it's their fault and their loss, now that these customers will need to rely on what this store is telling them. I don't think he has any qualms about saying anything to these customers. It's their fault for believing him, as far as he is concerned. He would probably chase educated people like ame out of his store.

 

[Just_Starting]

Scary is right. He fully believes that he is NOT doing anything wrong. If potential customers aren't going into his store fully educated, it's their fault and their loss, now that these customers will need to rely on what this store is telling them. I don't think he has any qualms about saying anything to these customers. It's their fault for believing him, as far as he is concerned. He would probably chase educated people like ame out of his store.

I too got encouraged to leave a store. The reason I joined pricescope initially was because I had already bought a diamond - was thrilled with it but then did some research on cut just for fun. My diamonds grade was VG (GIA), it scored 1.6 on the HCA and I was even happier. Then I found out during my cut research that it scored a VG cut due to the extremely thin girdle (it was set in a four claw exposed e ring setting), then I got concerned. Did my research, went back to the store and told them I wanted to return it. They said it still scored a VG cut according to the GIA, I was like yes it did but it couldn't get excellent because of the girdle and many people (on here) have told me that this type of girdle was a bad idea. He was getting more and more pissed off, he said that it was just sour grapes from people on here/other jewellers - I said no it scores a -4 on the GIA scale due to the girdle. He said that's just American point scoring, you want an American diamond then go get one from there, he went into the back room about ready to explode and got someone else to give me a refund lol. So one minute the GIA were amazing, the next they are just point scoring. Funny huh? This same shop also said about buying a GIA stone was just buying the cert instead of getting the same IGI stone for less .

 

[WinkHPD]

That's exactly what many jewellers over here do. I walk into shops ask about the rings and they say that it's the certificate you're paying for (e.g. paying for GIA cert instead of IGI) and that the stones are the same. It's a nice scam. I found it interesting AGS weren't mentioned in that video though. Anyway, good video thanks for the link .

Ditto this -- I've found that when I start asking (what I believe to be) simple questions, the salespeople get a little miffed. Once I had a "diamond expert" argue with me when I said I wanted to see some stones with fluorescence BECAUSE I LIKED IT. She insisted that I didn't want it and that it is never a good thing, blah blah blah... guess who I'm never dealing with for my upgrade?? Her loss!

A little off topic, but it reminds me of a training I did with John Pollard some time ago.

We were at a store and working with the staff on selling top cut diamonds. During my part of the presentation I asked how many people disliked fluorescence. Nearly all of the hands went up. When I asked why I got a variety of answers, most of them the stock answers we hear about looking cloudy out of doors, etc.

I asked how many had ever seen a VSB in the sunlight. Not one hand went up.

I allowed as to how, by the end of the day, I would ask each one of them to come outside with me to see a VSB that was in the inventory of that store and had been for some time, mostly because of the VSB. I promised not to try to change their minds about disliking fluorescence, but that I did want them to see why I and many of my clients loved it.

That particular stone was strong enough to elicit a light powder blue color in the sunlight, and underneath a broad leafed tree that powder blue with flashes of dispersion shooting everywhere was absolutely delicious. During the course of the day I believe that I did get nearly, if not all, of the staff outside, sometimes two or more at a time, and a few minds were actually changed. One telling comment, "I am still uncomfortable with fluorescence, but I have to agree, that particular diamond is beautiful with it."

"Yes," I replied, "and it is sold at a discount because of that nasty fluorescence."

It was interesting to me how many jewelry sales people have never seen a VSB diamond out of doors, but know that they do not like it. I wonder how many of you hold a long term prejudice against some particular thing or idea in your trade and accept it for a fact, but have never seen, or experienced it in real life? I am sure the fluorescent diamond paradox has parallels in other fields too.

As for the original point of this thread.

I think that this type of behavior is a function of the lack of leadership, or should I say the lack of good leadership at the top. Leadership sets the standards by which a store, or a company operates. When short term profits and greed are allowed to be the guiding hand and workers are rewarded or punished by making money rather than doing the right thing, then the connection with doing right and enjoying the cultural rewards gained by watching out for the long term benefit of your clients as well as the long term health of your business is lost. Instead such bad leadership and the ensuing culture of screw you least I be screwed instead leads to the inevitable result of doing unto your customer that which benefits you and too bad if it hurts the customer as you could care less.

Such behavior will ALWAYS eventually be outed and the ensuing damage to both business and reputation shall be mighty. The past few years have given us many examples of once great companies that have fallen mightily when the culture in their companies became toxic. Goldman Sachs is one such example of a once venerated company that practiced "long term greed" by ensuring that their clients prospered so that they too would prosper along with them. It took more than a good education and excellent grades to get in, it took serious interviews to make sure that you fit in with the culture.

After going public they started pitting executives in the organization against one another and rewarding those who made the most money, even if they destroyed customers and other executives within their own company to do so. Many of the "old school" fled the company to be out of the now toxic company culture and Goldman Sachs went on to be one of the most hated of the big companies giving huge bonuses to their conniving executives even though they had just accepted a huge government bail out.

Enron was so grievously corrupted that when their malfeasance was discovered they were completely destroyed and no longer exist as a company. They had pressured Arthur Andersen, one of the largest accounting firms in the world to ignore some of their risky bookkeeping and in the end led to their dissolution and the destruction of thousands of jobs there too. Bad leadership let to a bad culture, and as always, with everyone watching only their own backs, the danger from outside quickly penetrated and destroyed what had once been healthy and strong.

The jeweler displayed in the opening salvo of this thread may be one of the top jewelers in its area now, but with that press and the fallout that will follow it will loose many of its customers as they become either clients of jewelers, online or B&M that will afford them the protection due to a client, or quit being customers of jewelers at all due to not liking how customers are treated by jewelers and will join the cacophony of those who despise all jewelers as crooks. (Have you noticed the intentional use of clients and customers? Clients are protected and nurtured, customers are sold to and who cares if they got what they wanted or not?)

It is one of the strong blessings of places like Pricescope, where anyone can stop by for a dose of reality in the diamond world and never be abused by a vendor looking only for the quick buck. These people can still make bad choices and often do, but they have been afforded the protection of the faithful here, both in vendors and in experienced consumers willing to share their knowledge in hopes that they can make a difference in how jewelry and jewelers are perceived.

It is, after all, only by complete transparency that the culture of a company can be judged. If a company lives by a culture of watching each other's backs, that company will nearly always prosper, often even in bad times. If a company owns its mistakes quickly and fixes them, they are almost always forgiven. How many times have we seen and admired when someone owns up to a mistake and quickly fixes it, at their expense? How many times have we actually thought more of that company for doing so, rather than less?

I was in my twenties and still in the Marine Corps when Tricky Dicky tried to cover up the Watergate break in and burglary. I thought then and do today that had he stepped forward the next morning and said a horrible mistake had been made and that those responsible were being removed from their positions that he would never have been impeached or forced to resign. But because he was presiding over a toxic culture of Me, first and foremost, he held on for a while but was ultimately swept from the presidency and into the trash heap of history as a penalty for failing to own, and fix, his mistakes.

Enough of my rambling, let me just say I despise jewelers who prey upon their customers in such blatant disregard for them. I hope that particular jeweler ends up in a poop storm and goes down the drain, but it will take a few more such stories to make it happen. Let me just add that I hope that it is only the opening salvo and that I will cheer when it is reported that they have gone down the drain.

Wink

 

[WillyDiamond]

What goes around comes around.

 

[EvangelineG]

As a noob who has been to more than a dozen B&M stores in the past weeks, ranging from big mall chains, to independent jewellers with sterling local reps, to artisan's studios...I have to say that this is the norm out there rather than the unfortunate exception. I was told by multiple persons that GIA diamonds just cost more for the certificate, and that I could save money by getting this other diamond with "Joe's House of Sparklies" certification and it would be just as good, and SUCH A GREAT DEAL! I had one guy tell me that all diamond certification was bogus, but of course he wanted me to trust his assessment of the uncerted diamonds he was selling because he was "GIA trained"?! I had one woman describe her clarity enhanced diamonds in such a convoluted way that I would never have had any idea what I was being offered if I hadn't already done some reading on the subject. I encountered a great deal of resistance at most of the places regarding any sort of transparency about diamond quality, cost etc. They wanted to give me their sales pitches, but they did not want to answer my questions...or couldn't answer them. I encountered a lot of sales staff who knew less than I did with a few weeks of PS lurking under my belt (mostly in the maul stores). I was also told more than once that diamonds are investments that "never lose their value". So misleading!

Worse than shopping for a used car! Thank goodness for PS!

 

[spicyitalian]

It's a shark tank out there.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

As a noob who has been to more than a dozen B&M stores in the past weeks, ranging from big mall chains, to independent jewellers with sterling local reps, to artisan's studios...I have to say that this is the norm out there rather than the unfortunate exception. I was told by multiple persons that GIA diamonds just cost more for the certificate, and that I could save money by getting this other diamond with "Joe's House of Sparklies" certification and it would be just as good, and SUCH A GREAT DEAL! I had one guy tell me that all diamond certification was bogus, but of course he wanted me to trust his assessment of the uncerted diamonds he was selling because he was "GIA trained"?! I had one woman describe her clarity enhanced diamonds in such a convoluted way that I would never have had any idea what I was being offered if I hadn't already done some reading on the subject. I encountered a great deal of resistance at most of the places regarding any sort of transparency about diamond quality, cost etc. They wanted to give me their sales pitches, but they did not want to answer my questions...or couldn't answer them. I encountered a lot of sales staff who knew less than I did with a few weeks of PS lurking under my belt (mostly in the maul stores). I was also told more than once that diamonds are investments that "never lose their value". So misleading!

Worse than shopping for a used car! Thank goodness for PS!

Believe it or not, it is getting better out there. Thanks to the internet and forums such as this one. Especially this one. Many jewelers have come to realize that they have to step up their game in many areas including the information they provide customers. This has prompted the smart ones to brush up their own education. These progressive jewelers also recognize the power of the internet in terms of reviews and so are becoming much more customer focussed.
Still, it's much better to be here near epicenter of progress than on the perimeter.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The original article could apply to countless jewelers around the country. But really, it is also sad so many people will spend thousands of dollars without doing any research whatsoever. We research Consumer Reports and other reviews before buying appliances, cars, electronics, etc. I found PS when researching to find a good quality diamond for our anniversary a few years ago. I do not condone dishonest business people, and certainly avoid jewelers like this one. But buyers also bear some responsibility.

But on the subject of jewelers views of internet diamond buying, I experienced it this week. I am on a little vacation and visited a jewelry store that has been visited by other PSers because they carry some great jewelry. I went in and the sales associate turned me over for a few minutes to the person I think was the head jeweler. I told him I had learned of his store on PS thinking he'd be happy that he got some free publicity. I don't know how the conversation turned to this, but I mentioned that I had a newly cut OEC with ideal light performance. He proceeded to tell me it was impossible because OECs are not remotely ideal cut. I said I knew that but that this stone had been designed to have a facet pattern like an OEC but also to have great light performance. He said that ideal cut meant Tolkowsky proportions and that an OEC. Could not have those proportions. I realized afterwards that I should not have used the word "ideal" and just should have said excellent light performance. I held out my ring but he barely looked at it. I said that the rounds were not graded yet by AGS with a cut grade but that the antique cushions by the same vendor were graded as ideal cut. He made a comment that he knew about them because he did a search once on cushions and that GOG came up on the search. His comment was that the jeweler must post online all the time and do a good job with marketing to get their products at the top of the search. I decided it was not worth my time to argue with him, but I should have said it was more likely to do with the thousands of posts here than anything he was directly doing. And furthermore, more power to any of our vendors who come up high in a google search! Much better for that to happen than the jeweler in the original post! Anyway, the sales associate came back and graciously showed me some beautiful bands and colored stone rings. So I would still maybe buy from her, but I think jewelers are not very smart to alienate someone who has told them they participate on a major diamond forum! Incidentally, he did carry a branded line of well cut rounds.

 

[teobdl]

The original article could apply to countless jewelers around the country. But really, it is also sad so many people will spend thousands of dollars without doing any research whatsoever. We research Consumer Reports and other reviews before buying appliances, cars, electronics, etc. I found PS when researching to find a good quality diamond for our anniversary a few years ago. I do not condone dishonest business people, and certainly avoid jewelers like this one. But buyers also bear some responsibility.

Totally agree with this. As someone who researches almost anything I'm remotely interested, I'm happy to have found PS as a consolidated resource for diamond education. It does take some use of the PS google search box, but it's such a pleasure to dig into the archives.

That said, using a fresh search engine (totally wiped browsing history, logged out of all email accounts), I googled a bunch of terms that a "man on the street" might use to learn more about diamonds. Only one term-- "diamond education"-- brought PS up on the first page of Google, and only then it was 6 findings down. I do think that Search Engine Optimization could use some improvement... this is, after all, the top diamond forum! The other findings were pretty much the same old 4C's... first day of Diamonds 101.

I did find some other sites very helpful, particularly from grading labs, a few trade people, and self-proclaimed "Prosumers," but none has been as formative as PS.

 

[denverappraiser]

Actually I have a few significant issues with the reporting, or at least the editing, not just the subject.

1) Retail prices vs. resale prices. The expectation that you can buy something new at retail and sell it back used for the same price later fails even casual scrutiny. Nothing you can buy meets that standard. Jewelers, setters, landlords, shippers, tax collectors and so on are paid and no, this money doesn’t come back on resale. Assuming you’re selling to a dealer, the buyer at the back-end is making money on that deal too, whether or not it’s the same company. This is not a scandalous concept. It’s the way modern economies work and, as with the above, it applies to every thing you buy. This is haggling the price. The reporter is deliberately confusing these values, I presume in order to make the numbers more alarming. Maybe it succeeds for some, but to me it actually dilutes the message.

2) ‘Certification’. Like much of the trade, they misuse this word badly. GIA objects to it for good reason. It implies a guarantee that isn’t present. GIA certifies nothing. Not stones. Not gemologists. Not even their own employees. EGL certifies nothing either by the way. These are opinions, not facts. That’s the doorway that EGLI slips in through, and it needs to be dealt with, but just ignoring it and hiding under the word ‘certified’ doesn’t make it go away. That’s exactly how we got into this mess in the first place.

3) Graduate gemologist is a gemological credential. It is NOT an appraisal credential. ‘GIA educated jeweler’ isn’t even that. Anyone who has taken a single seminar from GIA can call themselves that. That doesn’t make them wrong, but in no way does make them qualified to do appraisals or even to grade diamonds. That’s making the same mistake that the jeweler led the customers into making and that led to this whole story. They are relying on opinions of supposed experts without vetting the expert FIRST. They’re failing to do exactly what they’re advising customers to do.

4) Much of the problem here is that grading and value are being muddled together. The expectation is that grades are somehow carved in stone and that the price floats outside of that. That’s what the salesperson said and, basically, the reporter agreed. That’s the scandal they’re trying to expose. It was sold as a G, someone else called it an L, and that difference is important. Indeed it is, but the assumption here is that L is right and G is wrong. Neither is necessarily correct but this is not a value question in any case. It’s one of misrepresentation, and that gets into issues of exactly what was represented as well as what evidence is being provided to show it as different. ‘EGLI called this one a G’ would be correct after all, regardless of what GIA or the GIA trained jeweler calls it.

5) Price is not a gemological property and merely being more expensive than a competitor on comparable items isn’t necessarily a problem. They can charge whatever they want. Shoppers can buy or not as THEY want. Claims like being cheaper than anyone on this continent range from total malarkey to simple puffery. It’s obviously false, no one is cheaper than everyone else on every item and it’s a good business habit to avoid this sort of thing, but it’s not exactly a giant scandal either.

6) Inflated advice on how much people should insure things for involves all sorts of issues and would be a good subject for another story but it has nothing to do with this particular topic. It obviously unrelated to how much either he or anyone else will pay and it’s apparently unrelated to what they’re charging. Again, the problem at hand is in the description on that report, not the value conclusion. As with the above, confusing those things is how the customers got into this mess in the first place.

I hate to sound like I’m siding with the bad guys here but this is the subject of the biggest can of worms in the jewelry business right now. The reporter is missing the target. They’re barbequing one particular jeweler for a widespread industry practice. EGLI is a gigantic company. So is EGL-USA. What they sell is plausible deniability. The jeweler figures they aren't required to take responsibility for what they’re selling if they find a 3rd party they can point to and call it ‘certified’. A 3rd party that's basically impossible to sue. That's why dealers buy these documents, and business is good.

My general advice is even harsher than the reporter’s conclusions. If a jeweler presents a report that they ask you to rely on, research the issuer of the report before giving it even one iota of credibility. Is their opinion useful? Are they credible? If you can’t find a trace of them, or can’t find reason to rely on them, DON’T. The burden here is on the appraiser/lab/grader to convince you that they have merit, and the default answer is no. Even worse, if you find reason to believe that they’re unreliable or deceptive, don’t just hold it against the grader or the stone, hold it against the jeweler who asked you to rely on them.

 

[Mayk]

I've been to this store... All pomp and circumstance. I was not impressed. I went in on a business trip to try on wedding bands.

 

[arkieb1]

It's not just low end/chain stores either. I have had Tiffany sales people here tell me that GIA certificates are irrelevant, can be misgraded and they don't matter. Some sales people will tell you anything for a sale.

 

[ame]

It's not just low end/chain stores either. I have had Tiffany sales people here tell me that GIA certificates are irrelevant, can be misgraded and they don't matter. Some sales people will tell you anything for a sale.

They all think their inhouse grading is "industry standard" somehow, which is so untrue it's nightmarish.

In recent trips to stores in several different cities, I have had Tiffany salespeople
1) Tell me that color and clarity are what make a diamond sparkle, yknow, besides it being big. And obviously the more you spend on a bigger stone, the more love you have! NO ONE discusses cut. When I asked about cut quality in one of the stores I stopped in, the woman working with me actually said "Oh, it's a round brilliant. It's a TIFFANY round brilliant, the best there is." Uh ok but what about the cut quality. "Yea, it's a round brilliant." Not at all in the right ball park lady.
and 2) Incorrectly identify my engagement ring, repeatedly, as a Lucida. Nothing about my engagement ring is in any way indicitive of Tiffany. My diamond band IS from Tiffany. But they never seem to identify that as their own. That right there is mindblowing.

 

[Sky56]

I've learned the hard way to keep my mouth shut in jewelry stores and just observe. Very few jewelers care about what you know or what you are wearing. I really respect the few who will genuinely appreciate something you have that they didn't sell to you.

Unless you are about to buy something from them, or are wearing something you bought from them, I find that most B&M stores will denigrate what you have if you take the time to show them your stuff. You would not believe how many times I felt insulted. It's like they only want your money, and that's all. And they are stupid if they think I'll want to spend money after being told not nice things!

There is a jewelry store I used to frequent a lot. They don't exist anymore. I bought a lot over the years and the owners and employees were very nice and enthusiastic about pieces I owned which were not bought from them. They were in business of course, but you could tell that they really loved jewelry in general. Unfortunately, they are the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Modified Brilliant]

One huge problem with ALL the labs: "The Fine Print."
Take a moment and read the fine print on the reverse side.

I think Liberty Mutual insurance has the right idea when they advertise "Responsibility---What's your policy?

Most every major lab will not accept responsibility but as an appraiser I'm expected to accept responsibility for my work.
Appraisers aren't expected to make excuses or pass the buck for their work or tailor a grading system to suit our needs and confuse the public.

There are still a ton of problems to solve within our industry. Which watch dog group or organization will tackle these problems once and for all?
Anyone? Anyone? Didn't think so.

 

[arkieb1]

It's not just low end/chain stores either. I have had Tiffany sales people here tell me that GIA certificates are irrelevant, can be misgraded and they don't matter. Some sales people will tell you anything for a sale.

They all think their inhouse grading is "industry standard" somehow, which is so untrue it's nightmarish.

In recent trips to stores in several different cities, I have had Tiffany salespeople
1) Tell me that color and clarity are what make a diamond sparkle, yknow, besides it being big. And obviously the more you spend on a bigger stone, the more love you have! NO ONE discusses cut. When I asked about cut quality in one of the stores I stopped in, the woman working with me actually said "Oh, it's a round brilliant. It's a TIFFANY round brilliant, the best there is." Uh ok but what about the cut quality. "Yea, it's a round brilliant." Not at all in the right ball park lady.
and 2) Incorrectly identify my engagement ring, repeatedly, as a Lucida. Nothing about my engagement ring is in any way indicitive of Tiffany. My diamond band IS from Tiffany. But they never seem to identify that as their own. That right there is mindblowing.

There must be a world wide Tiffany standard for B/S because I'm in Australia and I have had much the same story from salespeople here, that stone is a "Tiffany RB" or a "Tiffany Cut diamond" and we are so much better than everyone else including GIA because "we hand select all our stones", "we have higher standards than everyone else" and if all else fails "but honey it's a TIFFANY product everyone knows we are the best"...... I've had Tiffany staff explain to me in detail why they think their stones are better than a comparable much cheaper better cut GIA certified RB....

I like a number of their bands, but most of their larger diamonds are overpriced and underwhelming, and my Victor settings leave their halos for dead. I have a wickedly bad sense of humour, I actually go into Tiffany now as sport, I think they cringe when they see me coming

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I agree with Neil that this is an industry wide problem and not isolated to one jeweler. Bogus lab grading is harmful to consumers and causes confusion and loss of confidence in the market. It impacts all of us in a very negative way. The jewelry industry has a huge need to find a way to self-police in this area.

Its a thorny issue and I don't necessarily see an easy way forward. Rapaport has tried to bring attention to matter, and it clearly must start with greater awareness.

Here's another related thread worth reading if you are interested in the lab grading landscape.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/first-time-diamond-wholesale-purchase.201496/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/first-time-diamond-wholesale-purchase.201496/[/URL]

As an aside, from some of the eye-witness reports here it looks like even the top brands in the business better start stepping up their game. If they want to garner the same allegiance with millenials that they enjoyed with their parents and grandparents, they are going to provide a little more than , "trust us, we are the best".

 

[WinkHPD]

Silly me. I went to the other thread, read it and was trying hard to figure out what the top Brands, Infinity Diamonds, White Flash, BGD, GOG etc could do to provide even more information than we are now.

Then, not finding anything I came back and reread the last few posts and realized that by top brands you were talking about Tiffany and other top consumer brands.

Wink, Head in clouds and not seeing the forest department

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Silly me. I went to the other thread, read it and was trying hard to figure out what the top Brands, Infinity Diamonds, White Flash, BGD, GOG etc could do to provide even more information than we are now.

Then, not finding anything I came back and reread the last few posts and realized that by top brands you were talking about Tiffany and other top consumer brands.

Wink, Head in clouds and not seeing the forest department

Ha! Guess I was being too obtuse. Anyway, glad to hear you think of us as among the "top brands in the business". I guess we have made it to the mountain top.