Harry Winston vs Victor Canera for a 5 carat Cushion with Halo

[BlingKing80]

What are your thoughts on Victor Canera's craftmanship vs HW or Graff? Thanks!

 

[LLJsmom]

If you're talking quality of craftsmanship and refinement of work, proportion and height, and diamond cut, I prefer Victor Canera of the three. I have noticed that HW seems to set stones higher than I prefer. But I do prefer my stones lower. Prongs at HW are nice, but not as sharp as Victor's. These are just the rings I've examined at HW. Graff stones in general are beautiful, but it's not like I've examined them under an ASET. The settings are just meh, for plainer e-ring type rings. Very standard. Nice quality. But nothing as refined as Victor's work.
But if you are actually considering these high end brands, I assume the name is important to you. So if you're buying a five carat and you want it to say it comes from Graff or HW, just do that. You sacrifice a little in perfection of proportion, height, sharpness of prongs, hand-forging (maybe they hand forge, but I wouldn't generally believe it unless I was talking to the actual ring maker) but you get to say "This is Graff/Harry Winston." If you're buying 5 carats already, do you even care how much it costs? Have you priced out the actual cost differential?

 

[BlingKing80]

Thanks so much for your reply. I only care about the name HW for peace for mind because I know nothing about diamonds. What I want is a sparkling stunning diamond ring with the finest craftmanship. So victor Canera then? Thanks so much!

 

[soxfan]

Thanks so much for your reply. I only care about the name HW for peace for mind because I know nothing about diamonds. What I want is a sparkling stunning diamond ring with the finest craftmanship. So victor Canera then? Thanks so much!

Victor Canera.

 

[BlingKing80]

thank you!

 

[LLJsmom]

If you’re going with Victor I assume you would call and ask to speak to him directly. I don’t know how many 5 carat Canera Anyique Cushions cuts he has sitting around. I haven’t checked his website. If you are looking for specific specs that aren’t already available will you go with a custom cut?

 

[BlingKing80]

I will call him and will update you. For the specs whats a sweet spot for cushion cuts to maximize size? GVs1 or GS1 assuming cut etc is ideal.

 

[Octo2005]

I would say VC because he does excellant work and has beautiful stones, which are also more budget friendly than Graff an HW.

I think if you are looking at antique type cushions (what VC sells) they are in my opinion more appealing in the near colorless range and could easily go to H eye clean. My Cushion is an H and the setting was SK

 

[BlingKing80]

OMG! Thats a stunning ring! What is the size? So its H, S1? Please educate me what's the difference between cushion ad antique cushion? Thanks

 

[ice empress]

Definitely Victor Canera. In fact, he is making my ER setting as soon as the stone is sent to him next month.

I was incidentally just at Cartier this weekend. I know this isn’t HW but I was not impressed at all by their stones (saw some ranging between 1.8 and 3.7 in round, cushion, oval as they didn’t have anything larger in store). The stones, though D-F appeared quite yellow (could it have been the lighting? Wall reflections?) and the halo was not fluid or elegant at all.

To some degree with these bigger names, you are paying for marketing, branding, overhead, name recognition, etc. Indeed, I was at HW a few months ago in NYC and thought that the settings weren’t as nice as VC’s.

Also, the prices were so inflated (at Cartier)!!

3.03 ct MRB E VVS1 was $312,000 cdn (roughly $240,000 usd)

3.15 ct D MRB VVS2 was $499,000 cdn (roughly $390,000 usd)

3.60 ct oval with similar colour and clarity (can’t remember) was $650,000 cdn (roughly $505,000 usd)

 

[BlingKing80]

I am sold! Calling Victor tomorrow. Can you please tell me what setting you picked for yours? Size other specs? Online I am loving his "The Emilya Halo Solitaire with Vintage Cushion". Have you seen that one? Can not wait to see your ring. Please post pictures once you have it.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Absolutely I would go with Victor. I'd far rather have a top quality custom ring where I can select the diamond. You can ask him if he would like to source the diamond or we can help you find one. Best case scenario would be to have him cut you a 5 ct Canera Antique cushion, but there are some risks for him and for you in doing so. One risk is that the specs can only be estimated before cutting, so you'd have to be willing to accept it within a range of possible specs. He wouldn't be able to sell a 5 ct stone easily, so he couldn't risk ending up with the stone.

 

[yssie]

One thing to consider - a piece like this from a world-renown house is guaranteed to appreciate in value over time. Whilst diamond prices do generally go up, a 5ct diamond from VC (or any other boutique vendor) will be subject to generic market trends.

 

[BlingKing80]

Your input is very helpful! So the stones he cuts would be better than if I were to get it from another source? Are his GIA certified? Also what would be the sweet spot? G-VS1 or G-S1 for a better price? Thank you for your time

 

[ice empress]

My stone is at the AGS lab currently being certified so the final specs are yet to be confirmed. It should be in the range of 3.60-3.65 G VS2. It will be set in an Emilya.

You may have to be somewhat flexible with the colour and clarity if you are on a strict timeline and sourcing a stone of that size could take a while. That being said, most would probably tell you that anything from F-I is standard on pricescope, depending on budget and colour sensitivity.

You will definitely see some colour for that carat size once you drop below a G, so only get an H or I if you don’t think some tint would bother you.

As for clarity, I picked a VS2 because this will almost certainly be eye clean (in fact, it will certainly be, as this is a requirement to be certified ACA by whiteflash) but some would go to SI1 if it was confirmed to be eye clean still.

Have you considered the Sophia French cut solitaire? It’s absolutely stunning and might be better suited for a diamond your size, which might almost be too big in a halo.

https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/engagement/the-sophia-french-cut-solitaire-with-cac

 

[yssie]

Your input is very helpful! So the stones he cuts would be better than if I were to get it from another source? Are his GIA certified? Also what would be the sweet spot? G-VS1 or G-S1 for a better price? Thank you for your time

No. Canera cushions are available only from
Victor Canera. And they are beautifully cut stones - setting aside any discussions of flavour, you won’t find more visually pleasing light return.

Everyone wants to “get the most value for money”. What “most value” means depends hugely on what the buyer’s priorities are: some consumers want the best of the best in terms of precision of stone cut and mount workmanship and don’t care one whit for brand cachet; for other consumers branding is more important - for a variety of reasons. For some people stone size is of utmost importance, for others colour and clarity take front seats.

What is your budget? And what are your priorities, as best as you can describe them?

Given that you’re considering 5ct rings from HW and Graff, I am going to assume that you have a very healthy budget. Regardless of where you decide to buy from, I recommend aiming for a diamond of the same parameters those houses would accept - D-F, FL-VS2 (in this size some VS2s will not be eye clean, so VS1 may well become a practical minimum).

 

[BlingKing80]

i much prefer the Emiliya setting! I will check prices of atleast a 4-5 carat G-VS2 vs G-S1 (eye clean) and decide.

 

[ice empress]

This might help in the interim. Though this was for a MRB and not cushion, VC quoted to me:

- $103,000 usd for a 4.2ct G VS2
- $129,000 usd for a 4.85ct G VS2
- $135,000 usd for a 5.01ct F VS2

These were for excellent cut (I don’t think they would have qualified as ideal)

Of course, cut quality and fluorescence play a role too, as he also quoted up to $160,000 for other stones in the 4.5-4.6 range.

 

[yssie]

i much prefer the Emiliya setting! I will check prices of atleast a 4-5 carat G-VS2 vs G-S1 (eye clean) and decide.

Back up.
Slow down.
No, seriously.

What is your budget?
What are your priorities?
What is your timeline?

I don’t know who you are, but there isn’t a person in the world who can afford to rush into a 100-500k purchase.

SLOW DOWN.

 

[m-2-b]

I personally have a 5ct cushion in a halo and I think a halo is the perfect complement for a diamond of this size (depending upon finger size of the wearer). This is my 5 ct AVC from SK just to give you another option to think about:

 

[yssie]

I can’t seem to edit and save complete sentences. Sigh.

^^ Yet another comment on m-2-b’s wonderful photography!

 

[ice empress]

@m-2-b your ring is seriously beyond stunning!! You are absolutely correct that your halo compliments your center stone beautifully.

I shouldn’t have made such a broad statement. I was generalizing and referencing my personal experience trying on 5 carat halos, which I found overwhelmed my finger.

 

[BlingKing80]

Ok! M-2-B yours is my dream ring! Please tell me specs! This is the exact ring I want. Hand shots? Is this antique cushion?

 

[BlingKing80]

@yssie, my budget is around 200K. I have been married for 18 years but have not worn an engagement ring/ band because I wanted something absolutely stunning. So yes, please help me out. No time line as such. 6 months-1 year? I have to absolutely love it. I honestly can not tell the difference between F and a G. H, yes I see a little bit of tint. I want to maximize size so what would be that sweet spot? Is F vs G really worth the price jump.

 

[LLJsmom]

@m-2-b is an antique style cushion, cut today, called August Vintage cushion. Victor also cuts antique style cushions to maximize light performance. His are called Canera Antique Cushion. Antique cushions give big broad flashes of light. Modern cushions give smaller more disorganized flashes. Not sure how color sensitive you are. If I had $200k, I would aim for at least a G if I don’t want to see color. Steven Kirsch made @m-2-b setting. Victor’s pave work is as beautiful. Have you gone through this thread in detail?

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/post-your-victor-canera-beauties-here.175281/

I would talk to him about a custom cut. And as for the setting take your time! You can customize so many things about that halo. You have to think about the basket, the donut, the shank. So just chill and figure out the stone first. With your budget and with Victor taking care of the setting, the rest is just icing.

I have no idea how much 5 carats would cost. That is why you should talk to Victor first. That may drive what your priorities will be. Color v clarity. If you haven’t seen an antique cushion IRL, I would consider taking a trip to LA to meet with him in person and to see his stones. It’s a lot of money you are spending. I would want to be sure. Just a suggestion.

 

[yssie]

Very helpful information!

The budget won’t stretch to a ring from HW, Graff, etc., assuming you’re aiming for the ~5ct size range, which settles that part of the debate quite easily

There are several vendors capable of the type of halo you’re looking for. Victor Canera’s Emilya is hugely popular here on PS; Leon Mege and Steven Kirsch have also produced a number of similar styles and are very highly regarded.

Where are you located? Canera is in CA, SK and LM are in NY. There are advantages to working with a local vendor when possible.

Ditto @LLJsmom - you’ll likely need to talk with some vendors and find out what’s possible within your budget. First, though, you need to identify what type of cushion you want. Look at this excellent thread for info on cushion types:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...rience-in-making-a-harry-winston-halo.183473/

@yssie, my budget is around 200K. I have been married for 18 years but have not worn an engagement ring/ band because I wanted something absolutely stunning. So yes, please help me out. No time line as such. 6 months-1 year? I have to absolutely love it. I honestly can not tell the difference between F and a G. H, yes I see a little bit of tint. I want to maximize size so what would be that sweet spot? Is F vs G really worth the price jump.

 

[Blingalingaling]

Hi, @BlingKing80! You've gotten some excellent advice here!
Just wanted to chime in and sing the praises of Steven Kirsch as the go-to for the finest in pave' work here on the East Coast. I met with Victor Canera in Los Angeles, and I thought his work was excellent-and appreciated the chance to see it in person.
But Steven Kirsch is also a master craftsman and will work with a stone you've purchased elsewhere, if you decide to do that. Here is my "Lux" halo ring. Although it was made for a pear shaped stone and yours will be a cushion, you can see the intricacies of the pave' work and his precision in the execution.
Plus, he is an absolute joy to work with.

 

[Acinom]

You are getting some excellent advice here. What an exciting project for you!
Victor’s work is top notch and he is great to work with. I live in Europe and his customer service has been superb. He has made 4 settings for me:
- the Sophia with tapered french cut sides for my antique 5,3 ct OEC diamond
- the multi sided Monique halo for my Asscher zircon
- a NSEW oriented Emilya halo for a round topaz. It has a double sided halo
- tri shank solitaire for my blue green cushion tourmaline

I would contact him to discuss all possible options, including cutting or sourcing a stone for you. He will set outside stones, but I believe that is not the case for the AVC (August Vintage Cushion)?

Work by Steven Kirsch and Leon Mege is equally stunning. But make sure you read some threads about Leon Mege: he is certainly not everyone’s cup of tea.

 

[ice empress]

@Acinom what a stunning collection!! Absolutely beautiful!!

I noticed some of your stones are set with single prongs while some are set with double prongs.

Did you specify this detail, or did VC take the initiative for this? Having now experienced both, which is your preference? Pros/cons?

Are the double prongs noticeable to the casual eye?

And finally, are they thinner and daintier than the single prong?

Thanks!!

@BlingKing80 sorry for the slight thread jack, but I thought these questions could also help you in figuring out the details of your setting, as I am also getting the emilya and have pondered whether I should consider a double prong for added security.

 

[Octo2005]

OMG! Thats a stunning ring! What is the size? So its H, S1? Please educate me what's the difference between cushion ad antique cushion? Thanks

Thank you! My stone is a 3.22 H VVS1 with a generous spread (9.7 x 8.2), but I would have settled for eyeclean. As you will notice when you start to narrow down your search, you will have to be a little flexible with a fancy shape and for me it was about finding a stone that "sang to me". You have a far more generous budget than I did, so that certainly opens up tons of possibilities. August Vintage cushions and Canara Vintage Cushions are both amazing ideal cut cushions. For me they were cost prohibitive because I wanted to hit a certain spread/size, but I was lucky enough to find an unbranded stone that I fell in love with. I sometimes wonder if I should have held out for one of these ideal cut cushions, but I didn't want to bite that large of a bullet budget wise and I am to impatient so..., also going the route I did allowed me to get my OEC too. I have been very happy with my cushion and can't wait to see what you end up deciding to get.

I was going to suggest the cushion 101 thread, but @yssie beat me to it. I found this thread so helpful when I was searching. It is a great place to start.

Very helpful information!
First, though, you need to identify what type of cushion you want. Look at this excellent thread for info on cushion types:
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...rience-in-making-a-harry-winston-halo.183473/