Good Old Gold Clarity Enhanced diamond

[diamondseeker2006]

Agreed in entirety. If you are buying an AVC/R on the secondary market, I assume that you would take the time to obtain the certificate and note the documented color and clarity ratings. A quick comparison of this stone's visual appearance and the AGS cert. would indicate that it had been clarity enhanced. And if CE stones aren't your cup of tea, you can pass on it. I don't believe that having a few CE AV stones on the market, when the vendor is open and honest about the enhancement, should have any effect on the brand. I would, however, be rather disappointed if GOG started manufacturing CZ AVCs & Rs...

The last time I spoke to Jonathon he was considering this.

I wonder how that will affect the brand....

He could sell them through Wink like they do with the Octavia, and people looking for a diamond would never come across the CZs (and vice versa). I don't think producing CZs affected the Octavia at all, for that matter.

Good point! Just as the H&A cz I have sitting here doesn't keep me from buying ideal cut rb's! (I use them to decide what sizes of diamonds to buy! )

 

[Lew Lew]

Agreed in entirety. If you are buying an AVC/R on the secondary market, I assume that you would take the time to obtain the certificate and note the documented color and clarity ratings. A quick comparison of this stone's visual appearance and the AGS cert. would indicate that it had been clarity enhanced. And if CE stones aren't your cup of tea, you can pass on it. I don't believe that having a few CE AV stones on the market, when the vendor is open and honest about the enhancement, should have any effect on the brand. I would, however, be rather disappointed if GOG started manufacturing CZ AVCs & Rs...

The last time I spoke to Jonathon he was considering this.

I wonder how that will affect the brand....

He could sell them through Wink like they do with the Octavia, and people looking for a diamond would never come across the CZs (and vice versa). I don't think producing CZs affected the Octavia at all, for that matter.

Good point! Just as the H&A cz I have sitting here doesn't keep me from buying ideal cut rb's! (I use them to decide what sizes of diamonds to buy! )

I agree! Tacori sells cz and sterling jewelry, but people still want to buy their platinum and diamond jewelry. I don't think GOG offering an AVC cz will stop people from wanting to buy AVC diamonds.

 

[risingsun]

Agreed in entirety. If you are buying an AVC/R on the secondary market, I assume that you would take the time to obtain the certificate and note the documented color and clarity ratings. A quick comparison of this stone's visual appearance and the AGS cert. would indicate that it had been clarity enhanced. And if CE stones aren't your cup of tea, you can pass on it. I don't believe that having a few CE AV stones on the market, when the vendor is open and honest about the enhancement, should have any effect on the brand. I would, however, be rather disappointed if GOG started manufacturing CZ AVCs & Rs...

The last time I spoke to Jonathon he was considering this.

I wonder how that will affect the brand....

He could sell them through Wink like they do with the Octavia, and people looking for a diamond would never come across the CZs (and vice versa). I don't think producing CZs affected the Octavia at all, for that matter.

Good point! Just as the H&A cz I have sitting here doesn't keep me from buying ideal cut rb's! (I use them to decide what sizes of diamonds to buy! )

I agree! Tacori sells cz and sterling jewelry, but people still want to buy their platinum and diamond jewelry. I don't think GOG offering an AVC cz will stop people from wanting to buy AVC diamonds.

I have to disagree. If the AV line was sold with a cz, despite the best cutting possible, it would no longer be an AV cut diamond. That is the heart of this line. I would not purchase any AV that included a cz, as the center stone, as part of the AV brand. You can purchase a Tacori setting without the center stone, at least you could last time I looked at one. The setting sets Tacori apart and defines their brand. Some people do have them set with a cz, according to my jeweler. Without the AV diamond you do not have an AV. According to PS rules, I'm not sure we can discuss cz or ce stones. My thanks to PS for permitting this very important discussion.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

RS, I didn't want to copy that long thread, but what she meant was that Tacori also sells sterling silver rings with cz's in them which does seem questionable to me, but they apparently still do quite well with their platinum setting line.

(Ella, I am definitely not promoting these rings. I am just trying to give an example of how a big brand sometimes sells low cost versions of their expensive brand items. I can repost if the links are not appropriate. )

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tacori-Diamonique-Epiphany-2-05ct-BLOOM-Cut-w-Acc-qvc-Ring-8-NEW-/160716035031?pt=CZ_Engagement_Rings_US&hash=item256b6c13d7#ht_2531wt_1139

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tacori-Diamonique-Round-Cut-Dangle-Sterling-Silver-Earrings-QVC-/280803912323?pt=Designer_Jewelry&hash=item416137aa83#ht_547wt_1139

 

[Lew Lew]

RS, I didn't want to copy that long thread, but what she meant was that Tacori also sells sterling silver rings with cz's in them which does seem questionable to me, but they apparently still do quite well with their platinum setting line.

(Ella, I am definitely not promoting these rings. I am just trying to give an example of how a big brand sometimes sells low cost versions of their expensive brand items. I can repost if the links are not appropriate. )

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tacori-Diamonique-Epiphany-2-05ct-BLOOM-Cut-w-Acc-qvc-Ring-8-NEW-/160716035031?pt=CZ_Engagement_Rings_US&hash=item256b6c13d7#ht_2531wt_1139

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tacori-Diamonique-Round-Cut-Dangle-Sterling-Silver-Earrings-QVC-/280803912323?pt=Designer_Jewelry&hash=item416137aa83#ht_547wt_1139

Yep, that's what I meant. Just take a look at QVC.com; they have Tacori, Hidalgo, Erica Courtney, etc. selling cz set in sterling silver.

 

[Maisie]

If I was in the market for a diamond a well cut cz wouldn't stop me buying a diamond. But if I couldn't afford a diamond I would jump on an AVC cz.

 

[risingsun]

RS, I didn't want to copy that long thread, but what she meant was that Tacori also sells sterling silver rings with cz's in them which does seem questionable to me, but they apparently still do quite well with their platinum setting line.

(Ella, I am definitely not promoting these rings. I am just trying to give an example of how a big brand sometimes sells low cost versions of their expensive brand items. I can repost if the links are not appropriate. )

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tacori-Diamonique-Epiphany-2-05ct-BLOOM-Cut-w-Acc-qvc-Ring-8-NEW-/160716035031?pt=CZ_Engagement_Rings_US&hash=item256b6c13d7#ht_2531wt_1139

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tacori-Diamonique-Round-Cut-Dangle-Sterling-Silver-Earrings-QVC-/280803912323?pt=Designer_Jewelry&hash=item416137aa83#ht_547wt_1139

I do understand, diamondseeker. Jon has made a point of saying that AV stones are primarily valued for the cut of the diamond. IMO, you can't do that level of cutting on a cz. In addition, there are risks involved when using a clarity enhanced stone. Tiffany's sterling silver products have no direct effect on their fine jewelry. Tacori's settings are not directly diminished by using a cz or ce in the setting--until they go wonky. In this case, the AV line is all about the diamond. I don't see how you can tease out the diamond and still leave the brand intact. I guess we will have to agree to disagree, but I still love you lots

 

[jstarfireb]

Agreed in entirety. If you are buying an AVC/R on the secondary market, I assume that you would take the time to obtain the certificate and note the documented color and clarity ratings. A quick comparison of this stone's visual appearance and the AGS cert. would indicate that it had been clarity enhanced. And if CE stones aren't your cup of tea, you can pass on it. I don't believe that having a few CE AV stones on the market, when the vendor is open and honest about the enhancement, should have any effect on the brand. I would, however, be rather disappointed if GOG started manufacturing CZ AVCs & Rs...

The last time I spoke to Jonathon he was considering this.

I wonder how that will affect the brand....

He could sell them through Wink like they do with the Octavia, and people looking for a diamond would never come across the CZs (and vice versa). I don't think producing CZs affected the Octavia at all, for that matter.

Good point! Just as the H&A cz I have sitting here doesn't keep me from buying ideal cut rb's! (I use them to decide what sizes of diamonds to buy! )

I agree! Tacori sells cz and sterling jewelry, but people still want to buy their platinum and diamond jewelry. I don't think GOG offering an AVC cz will stop people from wanting to buy AVC diamonds.

I have to disagree. If the AV line was sold with a cz, despite the best cutting possible, it would no longer be an AV cut diamond. That is the heart of this line. I would not purchase any AV that included a cz, as the center stone, as part of the AV brand. You can purchase a Tacori setting without the center stone, at least you could last time I looked at one. The setting sets Tacori apart and defines their brand. Some people do have them set with a cz, according to my jeweler. Without the AV diamond you do not have an AV. According to PS rules, I'm not sure we can discuss cz or ce stones. My thanks to PS for permitting this very important discussion.

I'll add my thanks to PS as well! What if the AV-style CZs were rebranded under a different name? The CZ version of Octavia is called OctaCZ. They could drop the "August Vintage" name and call them "Chunky Cushion CZ" or something.

 

[risingsun]

I really thought that I was done with this topic. Something you said, Jon, put my teeth on edge. You referred to cushions and OEC diamonds as "generic," as opposed to the AV line. I believe you are mistaken. The cushions and OECs to which you refer are authentic, not generic. We have Leon, Mark, Erica/Grace, OWD and many fine vendors selling gorgeous, authentic stones. It sounds disingenuous when you refer to these diamonds as generic. They are anything but generic

 

[usnwife]

I really thought that I was done with this topic. Something you said, Jon, put my teeth on edge. You referred to cushions and OEC diamonds as "generic," as opposed to the AV line. I believe you are mistaken. The cushions and OECs to which you refer are authentic, not generic. We have Leon, Mark, Erica/Grace, OWD and many fine vendors selling gorgeous, authentic stones. It sounds disingenuous when you refer to these diamonds as generic. They are anything but generic

I don't believe that Jon meant anything offensive with the word "generic". What else do you call a non-branded diamond(most PSers stress the brand, ACA, BG, AVC/R, HOF, etc)? How do you know those stones are "authentic, as one of those vendors recently sold a diamond many color grades off. I would gladly take GOG and the branded AVR, if it means I get what I pay for.

 

[LibbyLA]

risingsun,

It seems like you may have misread "generic" to mean "genuine" but that is not the meaning. According to my dictionary, it means "of a whole class, kind or group; inclusive" or "that is not a trademark". "Generic" cushions or OECs are simply those that are not branded. Lots of beautiful diamonds of all shapes and sizes are generic (not branded).

liz

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Love ya back, RS!!! I really agree with luxury brands and designers not selling cheap items, by the way. I would just add that Mark and Leon are selling newly cut, unbranded cushions whereas JBEG usually sells antique stones. So in that respect, I would call JBEG's authentic antique stones while the unbranded newly cut cushions are more correctly called generic. I do see room for three categories here!

 

[risingsun]

Love ya back, RS!!! I really agree with luxury brands and designers not selling cheap items, by the way. I would just add that Mark and Leon are selling newly cut, unbranded cushions whereas JBEG usually sells antique stones. So in that respect, I would call JBEG's authentic antique stones while the unbranded newly cut cushions are more correctly called generic. I do see room for three categories here!

The newly cut cushions could have a brand name attached to them, just as Jon did with the AV line. I guess I don't see the difference. I saw the terminology in a negative light. My heels are dug in and they are not coming out. Will you bring me food and a nice glass of wine ...and maybe a warm blanket...

 

[risingsun]

risingsun,

It seems like you may have misread "generic" to mean "genuine" but that is not the meaning. According to my dictionary, it means "of a whole class, kind or group; inclusive" or "that is not a trademark". "Generic" cushions or OECs are simply those that are not branded. Lots of beautiful diamonds of all shapes and sizes are generic (not branded).

liz

I am aware of the definitions involved. I was an editor in a past life. I read what I perceived the intent of the word as it was used...as in my AV line is special and the others are all lumped together under a generic category. I would bet the ranch on that one. I absolutely believe that Leon's diamonds would stand up to anything that Jon produces...as if anything about Leon is generic! Mark has many fans on this board. Erica/Grace are in a class of their own. There was no reason to use that word to describe other diamonds, IMO. As a snarkmeister, I know one when I see one

 

[Laila619]

I really thought that I was done with this topic. Something you said, Jon, put my teeth on edge. You referred to cushions and OEC diamonds as "generic," as opposed to the AV line. I believe you are mistaken. The cushions and OECs to which you refer are authentic, not generic. We have Leon, Mark, Erica/Grace, OWD and many fine vendors selling gorgeous, authentic stones. It sounds disingenuous when you refer to these diamonds as generic. They are anything but generic

I don't believe that Jon meant anything offensive with the word "generic". What else do you call a non-branded diamond(most PSers stress the brand, ACA, BG, AVC/R, HOF, etc)? How do you know those stones are "authentic, as one of those vendors recently sold a diamond many color grades off. I would gladly take GOG and the branded AVR, if it means I get what I pay for.

Exactly. It's either branded or generic. I think Rhino is getting unfairly criticized here.

 

[LibbyLA]

I am aware of the definitions involved. I was an editor in a past life. I read what I perceived the intent of the word as it was used...as in my AV line is special and the others are all lumped together under a generic category. I would bet the ranch on that one. I absolutely believe that Leon's diamonds would stand up to anything that Jon produces...as if anything about Leon is generic! Mark has many fans on this board. Erica/Grace are in a class of their own. There was no reason to use that word to describe other diamonds, IMO
. As a snarkmeister, I know one when I see one

So you're a former editor and a mind reader, too. Maybe you are projecting.

To each his or her own. I buy lots of generic products and don't consider them inferior to branded products. Just because you seem to consider "generic" to be a negative doesn't mean that everyone else does.

liz

 

[risingsun]

I am aware of the definitions involved. I was an editor in a past life. I read what I perceived the intent of the word as it was used...as in my AV line is special and the others are all lumped together under a generic category. I would bet the ranch on that one. I absolutely believe that Leon's diamonds would stand up to anything that Jon produces...as if anything about Leon is generic! Mark has many fans on this board. Erica/Grace are in a class of their own. There was no reason to use that word to describe other diamonds, IMO
. As a snarkmeister, I know one when I see one

So you're a former editor and a mind reader, too. Maybe you are projecting.

To each his or her own. I buy lots of generic products and don't consider them inferior to branded products. Just because you seem to consider "generic" to be a negative doesn't mean that everyone else does.

liz

I did not write anything condescending to you in my post. Perhaps you are struggling with some transferential issues.

 

[LibbyLA]

risingsun,

You and I have obviously been reading different threads. So be it. Others have also posted that they didn't think that Jon was using the word "generic" in a negative sense, the same way I interpreted things. Then you pitched your little fit and dug in your heels about it, which is certainly your right, and claim to know what Jon was thinking when he wrote his message.

Your whole tone in the last few messages has been condescending. That's okay. I know condescending when I read it because I do it, too.

I'm too stupid to even have a clue what transferential issues are and too lazy and unconcerned to look it up...

liz

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Love ya back, RS!!! I really agree with luxury brands and designers not selling cheap items, by the way. I would just add that Mark and Leon are selling newly cut, unbranded cushions whereas JBEG usually sells antique stones. So in that respect, I would call JBEG's authentic antique stones while the unbranded newly cut cushions are more correctly called generic. I do see room for three categories here!

The newly cut cushions could have a brand name attached to them, just as Jon did with the AV line. I guess I don't see the difference. I saw the terminology in a negative light. My heels are dug in and they are not coming out. Will you bring me food and a nice glass of wine ...and maybe a warm blanket...

Lol!!! I surely would do it if I could!!!

 

[heather2012]

This is a simple matter of, "no matter what you do in life, you can't please everyone." Some people are just not worth the energy of pleasing either.

 

[risingsun]

Love ya back, RS!!! I really agree with luxury brands and designers not selling cheap items, by the way. I would just add that Mark and Leon are selling newly cut, unbranded cushions whereas JBEG usually sells antique stones. So in that respect, I would call JBEG's authentic antique stones while the unbranded newly cut cushions are more correctly called generic. I do see room for three categories here!

The newly cut cushions could have a brand name attached to them, just as Jon did with the AV line. I guess I don't see the difference. I saw the terminology in a negative light. My heels are dug in and they are not coming out. Will you bring me food and a nice glass of wine ...and maybe a warm blanket...

Lol!!! I surely would do it if I could!!!

Diamondseeker~ the noobs are being mean to me Whatever should I do? I am a good girl, I am

 

[risingsun]

I am sorry folks. This thread really did get to me. I messaged admin regarding my feelings and concerns. The "pile on" by noobs is what is. It tickles my funny bone and I could go on all day, but I won't. This topic comes up periodically and usually ends up in the same place. It's time for me to sign off

 

[vintagelover229]

I am sorry folks. This thread really did get to me. I messaged admin regarding my feelings and concerns. The "pile on" by noobs is what is. It tickles my funny bone and I could go on all day, but I won't. This topic comes up periodically and usually ends up in the same place. It's time for me to sign off

Risingsun: I'm not a newbie nor have I posted in this thread yet. My opinion about the CE AVR/AVC line is irrelevant and I was once an owner of the first AVC that was produced and waited months for it to arrive.

I personally thought that the way you were viewing Jonathan's "generic" comment was a bit over the top but didn't say anything because Jonathans reputation can speak for itself and he doesn't need PSers defending him (although I have no ill regard to those who chose to say something about it). I personally felt some of your remarks could be construed as condescending and I do know that there have been many people in the past who have had it out with you (myself personally not being one of them).

I in no way feel that the "newbies" are piling on you-that of course is my opinion. Just because their opinion differs from yours and they expressed it in a way that could also be considered condescending doesn't make their opinion or "pile on" any less or any more of a condescending "pile on" of your opinion. I hope I expressed that clearly-I'm having a difficult time articulating what I am trying to convey.

You have ever right to contact Admin with regards to your feelings-but everyone has a right to their opinion-be it the same-different-and everyone needs to play nice.

If this thread is getting to you that much perhaps you should take a break from it (and anyone else who is emotionally involved in it).

Jonathan has clearly stated he is going to take posters feelings and opinions and views into account while going forward-I don't think there needs to "pile on" Jonathan's wording considering a term that has many meanings. I have no doubt that he meant no ill regard to it-since the entire point of the AV line was to create a stone that had the vintage appeal that so many people loved-but either didn't have the time/knowledge to find themselves and the fact is that well cut OEC/OMC are difficult to find-so he found a way to make that happen. It may or may not be certain people's cup of tea and they may prefer the hunt and the deals that come with finding an vintage cut stone.

Please don't consider this an attack on you. I didn't post to stir up trouble but perhaps everyone who is emotionally invested in something as little as what they feel a vendor should/should not do and how they should/should not articulate certain things should pull away from the thread and remember that this really doesn't affect you on a personal level. It's their business and they can chose to do as they please-and I for one think it's great that GOG takes into consideration PSers opinions and feelings-many designers could give a rat's behind about what their educated consumers say (such as Leon-and he has that right as a vendor as well-although even he works with his customers to make them happy). You can chose to work with GOG or chose to hunt ebay for that special stone without allowing something like *this* get to you-for your own emotional well being (and *you* not being directed at you RS-it's the general *you*)

Edited for spelling

 

[heather2012]

risingsun-I think it's funny how you think you can say whatever you want, even down to your very last post, in an attempt to criticize people who are "new" to the thread, but you expect nobody to express any kind of opinion about what you have to say. Quite frankly, I hope you don't continue to post on this thread I find your comments more irritating than anything else and your attempt at being "cutesy" quite annoying.

Vintage- well said and very well composed. I agree with you completely--risingsun took it to a different level when she ran out of material by attempting to criticize people who are new to the boards. Almost as though she thinks she is "better" and new posters are "below" her. What you give is what you get in life- goodluck to her!

 

[Ella]

Keep it civil everyone.

 

[Gypsy]

FWIW here are my thoughts.

When I first came on PS I was offended to hear my unbranded square emerald cut diamond a "generic" asscher. It sounded dismissive and condescending of what is a beautiful example of what a square emerald cut can be. And it made me feel like because my diamond wasn't an a Royal Asscher it was inferior somehow.

I think the word 'generic' is used by the trade to mean 'unbranded'. As a result, it has been my observation that to members of the trade it is not a word with stigma it is simply a designation. Trade members seem blind to the denotations of the word which can be unflattering. That's not to say that they are right. I do wish they would replace the word in their vocabularies with the more accurate term "unbranded" but it is not an industry that embraces change easily and I don't know if the battle would be worth the gains.

So my solution has been to ignore the word 'generic' when it is used and to mentally replace it with 'unbranded' when I see it used. It has made me much happier.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

FWIW here are my thoughts.

When I first came on PS I was offended to hear my unbranded square emerald cut diamond a "generic" asscher. It sounded dismissive and condescending of what is a beautiful example of what a square emerald cut can be. And it made me feel like because my diamond wasn't an a Royal Asscher it was inferior somehow.

I think the word 'generic' is used by the trade to mean 'unbranded'. As a result, it has been my observation that to members of the trade it is not a word with stigma it is simply a designation. Trade members seem blind to the denotations of the word which can be unflattering. That's not to say that they are right. I do wish they would replace the word in their vocabularies with the more accurate term "unbranded" but it is not an industry that embraces change easily and I don't know if the battle would be worth the gains.

So my solution has been to ignore the word 'generic' when it is used and to mentally replace it with 'unbranded' when I see it used. It has made me much happier.

Good points, Gypsy. I do think the terms can be easily misinterpreted if we aren't used to hearing them in the context we are talking about. I am in the process of changing my H&A stone to a generic ideal cut. It really didn't cross my mind to think of that negatively because I have heard it used that way here.

So RS, I think that sort of explains it. I understand why you felt that way about the use of the word, but I just don't think Jon really meant it that way. He sells generic stones, too!

 

[Laila619]

The "pile on" by noobs is what is. It tickles my funny bone and I could go on all day, but I won't. This topic comes up periodically and usually ends up in the same place.

I'm genuinely confused now. Who is piling on whom? And the topic of generic stones comes up often? Not asking snarkily, I really don't understand.

 

[Gypsy]

FWIW here are my thoughts.

When I first came on PS I was offended to hear my unbranded square emerald cut diamond a "generic" asscher. It sounded dismissive and condescending of what is a beautiful example of what a square emerald cut can be. And it made me feel like because my diamond wasn't an a Royal Asscher it was inferior somehow.

I think the word 'generic' is used by the trade to mean 'unbranded'. As a result, it has been my observation that to members of the trade it is not a word with stigma it is simply a designation. Trade members seem blind to the connotation of the word which can be unflattering. That's not to say that they are right. I do wish they would replace the word in their vocabularies with the more accurate term "unbranded" but it is not an industry that embraces change easily and I don't know if the battle would be worth the gains.

So my solution has been to ignore the word 'generic' when it is used and to mentally replace it with 'unbranded' when I see it used. It has made me much happier.

I needed to make an edit. I used denotation in place of connotation. I fixed it above.

Thanks DS.

 

[TristanC]

I think this thread just illustrates the strong feelings everyone has on the topic. Which is in itself amazing consumer information for jewellers who take the time to consider them. They as business owners are lucky to get such insights/discussions directly and for free. Most other industries, you pay top dollar for open consumer discussions to define your corporate strategies, and usually it is second hand through a research company, so views may be distilled.

As for the whole spiel about my being snotty etc. I have no desire to retract my views. Certain things ARE for certain budgets. You are entitled to feel that all incomes should have access to all items, but last I checked the world embraced capitalism not communism, which is why I don't expect Ferrari to make a car that I can afford anytime soon. My comments were directed at the decision a company makes on branding its products, not the rights or ability of ownership or propensity to spend that people at different income leves have.

For tacori, their settings are what the brand is most known for I suppose. The decision to mount simulants or sell a sterling line, still differentiates the line. Same as how Toyota was careful to have Lexus as their luxury line, while toyota was the base line. Tiffany itself has sterling, household and general items and premium fine jewelry. The point being that ultimately, jewellers would define their own boundaries that they would place on their offerings.

Examples being some websites that only choose to sell untreated. Some that sell only gems from a certain geographic origin. Some that only sell certified stones. Some that sell only a particular colour range, or clarity range etc. These are all BUSINESS decisions, to frame a model for the business. I, and some others, simply feel, that GOG shouldn't have clarity enhanced diamonds in the AV lineup. You are free to feel any way you wish - it is up to GOG to decide what they want to do.