Fluorescence in D-E-F color Diamonds

[bmfang]

Garry,

You are on. I will bet you $100 that one carat D, E, F color diamonds with strong to medium blue fluorescence will not sell at a premium as per Rap pricing within 5 years of this date, 7/4/2019.

It is $100 that I would be happy to lose, as I have been wanting what you are betting on to be true since 1978. It was true when I got in the market in 1970 and as late as 1975 I paid a premium for nice diamonds with a blush tint out of doors on a sunny day. By 1978 the diamond investment craze was in full swing, and fluorescent diamonds, in all of their beauty were no longer welcome to play with the big boys.

Who shall we have hold the money?

Wink

@Wink and @Garry H (Cut Nut) , I’m looking forward to seeing the result of this bet in 5 years time.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Garry,

You are on. I will bet you $100 that one carat D, E, F color diamonds with strong to medium blue fluorescence will not sell at a premium as per Rap pricing within 5 years of this date, 7/4/2019.

It is $100 that I would be happy to lose, as I have been wanting what you are betting on to be true since 1978. It was true when I got in the market in 1970 and as late as 1975 I paid a premium for nice diamonds with a blush tint out of doors on a sunny day. By 1978 the diamond investment craze was in full swing, and fluorescent diamonds, in all of their beauty were no longer welcome to play with the big boys.

Who shall we have hold the money?

Wink

Vera and Resa

 

[Dancing Fire]

I looked at a 3 carat, D colored diamond. Medium Fluorescence had absolutely no effect. Except for an interesting glow under black light, I was never able to see under any other light conditions.

Here's my wife's none vs our daughter's med blue under the UV light.


Same two stones under the sunlight.

Under indoor lights

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Was it somewhat discounted in price in comparison to a non fluorescence d colored 3 carat??

I looked at a 3 carat, D colored diamond. Medium Fluorescence had absolutely no effect. Except for an interesting glow under black light, I was never able to see under any other light conditions.

The degree of discount is generally related to the strength of the fluorescence. The pricing of collection goods (DEF IF/VVS) is more sensitive to fluorescence, especially in larger sizes.

Medium fluoro has never been implicated in any potential transparency problems to my knowledge.

 

[GearGirly]

I’m obsessed with my D with strong blue, it’s why I bought it. I actually won’t buy a stone again without it. It just seems so much more beautiful in the sunlight and it adds a little bit of excitement. I am going to trade my larger OEC at some point even though it’s very pretty because I want a stone with fluorescence.

 

[Demon]

I’m obsessed with my D with strong blue, it’s why I bought it. I actually won’t buy a stone again without it. It just seems so much more beautiful in the sunlight and it adds a little bit of excitement. I am going to trade my larger OEC at some point even though it’s very pretty because I want a stone with fluorescence.

Sorry for the thread jack - none of the following are D E or F. (One is J, the other green yellow)

Is yours phosphorescent? I noticed that after I used a long wave UV light, two of my diamonds would 'glow in the dark' for a little bit. I did some research, and I can't remember where, but read that diamonds with strong blue fluorescence can/will show phosphorescence. Not sure if that means all strong blue diamonds though.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Sorry for the thread jack - none of the following are D E or F. (One is J, the other green yellow)

Is yours phosphorescent? I noticed that after I used a long wave UV light, two of my diamonds would 'glow in the dark' for a little bit. I did some research, and I can't remember where, but read that diamonds with strong blue fluorescence can/will show phosphorescence. Not sure if that means all strong blue diamonds though.

Not all strongly fluorescent stones are phosphorescent. It is estimated that around 30 percent of diamonds have some degree of fluorescence Phosphorescence would be a very small subset of that 30 percent.

Phosphorescence does tend to be associated with fancy color diamonds. The Hope Diamond is the most famous example. It's a blue diamond with red phosphorescence!

 

[Demon]

Not all strongly fluorescent stones are phosphorescent. It is estimated that around 30 percent of diamonds have some degree of fluorescence Phosphorescence would be a very small subset of that 30 percent.

Phosphorescence does tend to be associated with fancy color diamonds. The Hope Diamond is the most famous example. It's a blue diamond with red phosphorescence!

Thank you for that. I couldn't find whether or not all strongly fluorescent stones would show phosphorescence anywhere! I have medium blue; faint blue; strong blue; strong green; and the orange under longwave/yellow under shortwave of my chameleon, but I'd love to find a red.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

To find a red fluorescent diamond you might want to look for stones with some blue component. I am not sure but it could be related to the element Boron which is associated with the blue color in diamonds.

 

[Demon]

To find a red fluorescent diamond you might want to look for stones with some blue component. I am not sure but it could be related to the element Boron which is associated with the blue color in diamonds.

Darn. Not sure my retirement fund would allow for a blue, but would be fun to watch for on colored diamond sites. I imagine it's pretty rare.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Darn. Not sure my retirement fund would allow for a blue, but would be fun to watch for on colored diamond sites. I imagine it's pretty rare.

Yes, blue is especially pricey. But if you are buying it for the red fluoro, maybe it does not have to be large, clean or saturated in color. Sometimes that kind of collector stone is not in the stratosphere price-wise.

Yes, it is rare. But the hunt is half the fun!

 

[LLJsmom]

I had a 2.59 carat GIA medium blue F. No issues with haziness or anything else. But I traded it in for a K.

 

[Demon]

Yes, blue is especially pricey. But if you are buying it for the red fluoro, maybe it does not have to be large, clean or saturated in color. Sometimes that kind of collector stone is not in the stratosphere price-wise.

Yes, it is rare. But the hunt is half the fun!

True enough - I don't need a top grade stone for the fluorescence. The hunt begins.

 

[diagem]

Garry,

You are on. I will bet you $100 that one carat D, E, F color diamonds with strong to medium blue fluorescence will not sell at a premium as per Rap pricing within 5 years of this date, 7/4/2019.

It is $100 that I would be happy to lose, as I have been wanting what you are betting on to be true since 1978. It was true when I got in the market in 1970 and as late as 1975 I paid a premium for nice diamonds with a blush tint out of doors on a sunny day. By 1978 the diamond investment craze was in full swing, and fluorescent diamonds, in all of their beauty were no longer welcome to play with the big boys.

Who shall we have hold the money?

Wink

Can I join the party, I pick Garry’s side and am in full agreement with his speculation.
Especially as it is one of the signs of nature in a world that is becoming more artificial from day to day.
Fluorescence is an optical phenomena which won’t be disregarded for much longer imo and will command premiums again.
It certainly deserved one in the old days and as the information about their splendidly spreads through the www, more people will understand and appreciate.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I'll take the under. I've been around long enough to know that the diamond market is highly status quo oriented. Old habits die hard in the diamond industry.

 

[diagem]

I'll take the under. I've been around long enough to know that the diamond market is highly status quo oriented. Old habits die hard in the diamond industry.

True for many past centuries but the speed of changes going through this dinosaur industry in the past year or two is actually mind blowing.
I believe in two years time we won’t recognize this industry as it was...

 

[Texas Leaguer]

True for many past centuries but the speed of changes going through this dinosaur industry in the past year or two is actually mind blowing.
I believe in two years time we won’t recognize this industry as it was...

Hmm. I don't know if I am retiring at the right time or the wrong time

 

[diagem]

Hmm. I don't know if I am retiring at the right time or the wrong time

I see I managed to lightly shake your confidence on the old “status quo”?

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Well, stranger things have happened.

And sadly, I've learned not to underestimate my ability to be wrong.

 

[msop04]

I always see fluorescence as a beautiful natural phenomena in any color grade, as long as it doesn’t have any negative impact on the stones transparency. I do agree price should be reflected in D/E/F diamonds.

Check out phosphorescence when you get a chance.. gets me glowing!

Totally agree... I just love it! My next stone will have at LEAST medium fluoro.

 

[bmfang]

I love fluorescence. Despite what almost every Aussie jeweller has said to me about fluorescent diamonds, any future diamond purchases I make will be aiming to have at least strong blue fluorescence. While I’m hoping @diagem and @Garry H (Cut Nut) are right, as a consumer I hope they are wrong – for my bank balance’s sake!!!

 

[AV_]

I'll bet on change.

Prices of anything are turning ever more private or idiosyncratic from getting close to where taste is - and there is some decent understanding as to why & how & the worth thereof.

The 5 year number could be as good as any & I have not thought about it - having bet will likely keep me interested in the matter, however, the above-mentioned is not straightforward to estimate.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I love fluorescence. Despite what almost every Aussie jeweller has said to me about fluorescent diamonds, any future diamond purchases I make will be aiming to have at least strong blue fluorescence. While I’m hoping @diagem and @Garry H (Cut Nut) are right, as a consumer I hope they are wrong – for my bank balance’s sake!!!

True or not BGD told me that the price gap b/t blue fluor and none have narrowed in the past 12 months. unlike a few yrs ago were there was a big discount for blue fluor roughs.

 

[bmfang]

True or not BGD told me that the price gap b/t blue fluor and none have narrowed in the past 12 months. unlike a few yrs ago were there was a big discount for blue fluor roughs.

This must be what Garry is alluding to and why he’s becoming a little more bullish on fluorescent stones...

 

[AV_]

To find a red fluorescent diamond you might want to look for stones with some blue component. I am not sure but it could be related to the element Boron which is associated with the blue color in diamonds.

@Texas Leaguer I remember GIA saying that they have only have about twenty diamonds with orage/red phosphorescence on record (TBD). If you have such an object, it would be possible to detail its properties - resulting in a stack of very expensive paperwork.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Garry,

You are on. I will bet you $100 that one carat D, E, F color diamonds with strong to medium blue fluorescence will not sell at a premium as per Rap pricing within 5 years of this date, 7/4/2019.

It is $100 that I would be happy to lose,

Who shall we have hold the money?

Wink

No need for someone to hold the money as we have many witnesses here on PS.

Now, Is this bet based on USD or AUD?
If Garry loses the bet he'll pay Wink in AUD? and if Wink loses the bet Wink will pay Garry in USD?...

5 yrs is an eternity for the diamond market a lot can change. If this bet was for within 3 yrs then I'm on Wink's side, but in 5 yrs? IMO, Garry have an ex chance of beating Wink.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Please note this:
in the medium term there will be (more) research published that debunks the current perception and high color fluorexcent diamonds will again be sold at a premium.
You heard it from me.
Any one want to bet on this - with 5 years to completing the bet?

Can I join the party, I pick Garry’s side and am in full agreement with his speculation.
Especially as it is one of the signs of nature in a world that is becoming more artificial from day to day.
Fluorescence is an optical phenomena which won’t be disregarded for much longer imo and will command premiums again.
It certainly deserved one in the old days and as the information about their splendidly spreads through the www, more people will understand and appreciate.

I have loved fluorescence all along. It is just beautiful to me. So if by chance you two are right (and I hope you are), it sounds like people like me should buy now before it's too late!!! That's one regret I don't want to have down the road.

But are you saying that only D-F with fluorescence will be seen as desirable? I like it in all colors, but it certainly does help the cost when buying high colors. I hope not many people will read this thread!

 

[diagem]

I have loved fluorescence all along. It is just beautiful to me. So if by chance you two are right (and I hope you are), it sounds like people like me should buy now before it's too late!!! That's one regret I don't want to have down the road.

But are you saying that only D-F with fluorescence will be seen as desirable? I like it in all colors, but it certainly does help the cost when buying high colors. I hope not many people will read this thread!

Blue fluorescence in lower colors are already desirable because of the presumed masking of the color..., what I predict as far as color (not the rare fancy’s), such diamonds are way undervalued currently because of their yellow/brown/gray/greenish tints which are currently presumed cheaper monetary wise.

In the last few years I have been noticing such tinted diamonds when beautifully cut and displayed endorse the value aspect and are becoming more and more in demand because of their beauty aspect.

The relativity between low color/ low value and beautiful is still considered a great value proposition. As we move further into the current industry changes this disproportion will also balance itself with time.

To your question about fluorescence and warmer tints, as long as we can enjoy an optical phenomena that doesnt downgrade the normal optical beauty in my book should be considered an added value.

There is one jewelry designer that already picked up on this opportunity, Cora Sheibani is her name and here is one of her works: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bxvn_z3lFGH/

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thanks, @diagem Yoram! I once had an H strong blue and loved it. It had no negatives that I could see, and it was high clarity. I know sometimes certain inclusions like clouds and fluorescence don't do well together, so I'd avoid those. I feel like I need to collect a couple before the prices go up!

Oh, and as a matter of fact, my original e-ring stone was F color and had medium blue! I actually didn't even know it for 25+ years or so when I decided to add side stones and change to platinum. The jeweler then told me, and he kind of had a negative tone, but I thought it was gorgeous and my favorite color! lol! I decided against changing that ring, and my DH said to just get a new ring for an anniversary! That's when I found PS!

 

[OoohShiny]

Is yours phosphorescent? I noticed that after I used a long wave UV light, two of my diamonds would 'glow in the dark' for a little bit. I did some research, and I can't remember where, but read that diamonds with strong blue fluorescence can/will show phosphorescence. Not sure if that means all strong blue diamonds though.

I have medium blue; faint blue; strong blue; strong green; and the orange under longwave/yellow under shortwave of my chameleon, but I'd love to find a red.

We are going to need pictures!

Darn. Not sure my retirement fund would allow for a blue, but would be fun to watch for on colored diamond sites. I imagine it's pretty rare.

How about a rare Type IIa with rare Red fluor?
https://www.gia.edu/gems-gemology/s...less-type-iia-diamond-bright-red-fluorescence