shape
carat
color
clarity

Fluorescence in D-E-F color Diamonds

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Big Fat Facets, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,852
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    by bmfang » Jul 5, 2019
    @Wink and @Garry H (Cut Nut) , I’m looking forward to seeing the result of this bet in 5 years time.
     
    bright ice and lovedogs like this.
  2. Garry H (Cut Nut)
    Super_Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    14,537
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2000
    by Garry H (Cut Nut) » Jul 5, 2019
    Vera and Resa
     
    AV_ and Big Fat Facets like this.
  3. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    29,940
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    by Dancing Fire » Jul 5, 2019
    Here's my wife's none vs our daughter's med blue under the UV light.

    IMG_2727.jpg
    Same two stones under the sunlight.
    IMG_2737.jpg
    Under indoor lights
    IMG_2775.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  4. Texas Leaguer
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    2,921
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    by Texas Leaguer » Jul 5, 2019
    The degree of discount is generally related to the strength of the fluorescence. The pricing of collection goods (DEF IF/VVS) is more sensitive to fluorescence, especially in larger sizes.

    Medium fluoro has never been implicated in any potential transparency problems to my knowledge.
     
    


    


  5. GearGirly
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    636
    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    by GearGirly » Jul 5, 2019
    I’m obsessed with my D with strong blue, it’s why I bought it. I actually won’t buy a stone again without it. It just seems so much more beautiful in the sunlight and it adds a little bit of excitement. I am going to trade my larger OEC at some point even though it’s very pretty because I want a stone with fluorescence.
     
  6. Demon
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    427
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    by Demon » Jul 5, 2019
    Sorry for the thread jack - none of the following are D E or F. (One is J, the other green yellow)

    Is yours phosphorescent? I noticed that after I used a long wave UV light, two of my diamonds would 'glow in the dark' for a little bit. I did some research, and I can't remember where, but read that diamonds with strong blue fluorescence can/will show phosphorescence. Not sure if that means all strong blue diamonds though.
     
  7. Texas Leaguer
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    2,921
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    by Texas Leaguer » Jul 5, 2019
    Not all strongly fluorescent stones are phosphorescent. It is estimated that around 30 percent of diamonds have some degree of fluorescence Phosphorescence would be a very small subset of that 30 percent.

    Phosphorescence does tend to be associated with fancy color diamonds. The Hope Diamond is the most famous example. It's a blue diamond with red phosphorescence!
     
  8. Demon
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    427
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    by Demon » Jul 5, 2019
    Thank you for that. I couldn't find whether or not all strongly fluorescent stones would show phosphorescence anywhere! I have medium blue; faint blue; strong blue; strong green; and the orange under longwave/yellow under shortwave of my chameleon, but I'd love to find a red. :)
     
    diamondseeker2006 and bmfang like this.
  9. Texas Leaguer
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    2,921
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    by Texas Leaguer » Jul 5, 2019
    To find a red fluorescent diamond you might want to look for stones with some blue component. I am not sure but it could be related to the element Boron which is associated with the blue color in diamonds.
     
    TreeScientist and AV_ like this.
  10. Demon
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    427
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    by Demon » Jul 5, 2019
    Darn. Not sure my retirement fund would allow for a blue, but would be fun to watch for on colored diamond sites. I imagine it's pretty rare.
     
    


    


  11. Texas Leaguer
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    2,921
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    by Texas Leaguer » Jul 5, 2019
    Yes, blue is especially pricey. But if you are buying it for the red fluoro, maybe it does not have to be large, clean or saturated in color. Sometimes that kind of collector stone is not in the stratosphere price-wise.

    Yes, it is rare. But the hunt is half the fun!
     
  12. LLJsmom
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    9,061
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    by LLJsmom » Jul 5, 2019
    I had a 2.59 carat GIA medium blue F. No issues with haziness or anything else. But I traded it in for a K. ;-)
     
    Big Fat Facets likes this.
  13. Demon
    Shiny_Rock

    Messages:
    427
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    by Demon » Jul 5, 2019
    True enough - I don't need a top grade stone for the fluorescence. The hunt begins. ;-)
     
  14. diagem
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    4,875
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    by diagem » Jul 5, 2019
    Can I join the party, I pick Garry’s side and am in full agreement with his speculation.
    Especially as it is one of the signs of nature in a world that is becoming more artificial from day to day.
    Fluorescence is an optical phenomena which won’t be disregarded for much longer imo and will command premiums again.
    It certainly deserved one in the old days and as the information about their splendidly spreads through the www, more people will understand and appreciate.
     
  15. Texas Leaguer
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    2,921
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    by Texas Leaguer » Jul 5, 2019
    I'll take the under. I've been around long enough to know that the diamond market is highly status quo oriented. Old habits die hard in the diamond industry.
     
    angeljosephy, Big Fat Facets and AV_ like this.
    


    


  16. diagem
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    4,875
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    by diagem » Jul 5, 2019
    True for many past centuries but the speed of changes going through this dinosaur industry in the past year or two is actually mind blowing.
    I believe in two years time we won’t recognize this industry as it was...
     
    Big Fat Facets, AV_ and bmfang like this.
  17. Texas Leaguer
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    2,921
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    by Texas Leaguer » Jul 5, 2019
    Hmm. I don't know if I am retiring at the right time or the wrong time :-o
     
  18. diagem
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    4,875
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    by diagem » Jul 5, 2019
    I see I managed to lightly shake your confidence on the old “status quo”?:twisted:
     
    Big Fat Facets and bmfang like this.
  19. Texas Leaguer
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    2,921
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    by Texas Leaguer » Jul 5, 2019
    Well, stranger things have happened.

    And sadly, I've learned not to underestimate my ability to be wrong. :oops:
     
  20. msop04
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    9,288
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2011
    by msop04 » Jul 5, 2019
    Totally agree... I just love it! My next stone will have at LEAST medium fluoro.
     
  21. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,852
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    by bmfang » Jul 5, 2019
    I love fluorescence. Despite what almost every Aussie jeweller has said to me about fluorescent diamonds, any future diamond purchases I make will be aiming to have at least strong blue fluorescence. While I’m hoping @diagem and @Garry H (Cut Nut) are right, as a consumer I hope they are wrong – for my bank balance’s sake!!!
     
    Big Fat Facets and LinSF like this.
  22. AV_
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,962
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2018
    by AV_ » Jul 5, 2019
    I'll bet on change.

    Prices of anything are turning ever more private or idiosyncratic from getting close to where taste is - and there is some decent understanding as to why & how & the worth thereof.

    The 5 year number could be as good as any & I have not thought about it - having bet will likely keep me interested in the matter, however, the above-mentioned is not straightforward to estimate.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
    Big Fat Facets likes this.
  23. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    29,940
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    by Dancing Fire » Jul 5, 2019
    True or not BGD told me that the price gap b/t blue fluor and none have narrowed in the past 12 months. unlike a few yrs ago were there was a big discount for blue fluor roughs.
     
    Big Fat Facets likes this.
  24. bmfang
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,852
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    by bmfang » Jul 5, 2019
    This must be what Garry is alluding to and why he’s becoming a little more bullish on fluorescent stones...
     
    Big Fat Facets and Dancing Fire like this.
  25. AV_
    Brilliant_Rock

    Messages:
    1,962
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2018
    by AV_ » Jul 5, 2019
    @Texas Leaguer I remember GIA saying that they have only have about twenty diamonds with orage/red phosphorescence on record (TBD). If you have such an object, it would be possible to detail its properties - resulting in a stack of very expensive paperwork.
     
    Big Fat Facets and OoohShiny like this.
  26. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    29,940
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    by Dancing Fire » Jul 5, 2019
    No need for someone to hold the money as we have many witnesses here on PS. :bigsmile:

    Now, Is this bet based on USD or AUD? :lol:
    If Garry loses the bet he'll pay Wink in AUD? and if Wink loses the bet Wink will pay Garry in USD?...:lol:

    5 yrs is an eternity for the diamond market a lot can change. If this bet was for within 3 yrs then I'm on Wink's side, but in 5 yrs? :think: IMO, Garry have an ex chance of beating Wink.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
    Big Fat Facets, Wanaka and bmfang like this.
  27. diamondseeker2006
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    54,768
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    by diamondseeker2006 » Jul 5, 2019
    I have loved fluorescence all along. It is just beautiful to me. So if by chance you two are right (and I hope you are), it sounds like people like me should buy now before it's too late!!! That's one regret I don't want to have down the road.

    But are you saying that only D-F with fluorescence will be seen as desirable? I like it in all colors, but it certainly does help the cost when buying high colors. I hope not many people will read this thread! :lol:
     
  28. diagem
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

    Messages:
    4,875
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    by diagem » Jul 6, 2019
    Blue fluorescence in lower colors are already desirable because of the presumed masking of the color..., what I predict as far as color (not the rare fancy’s), such diamonds are way undervalued currently because of their yellow/brown/gray/greenish tints which are currently presumed cheaper monetary wise.

    In the last few years I have been noticing such tinted diamonds when beautifully cut and displayed endorse the value aspect and are becoming more and more in demand because of their beauty aspect.

    The relativity between low color/ low value and beautiful is still considered a great value proposition. As we move further into the current industry changes this disproportion will also balance itself with time.

    To your question about fluorescence and warmer tints, as long as we can enjoy an optical phenomena that doesnt downgrade the normal optical beauty in my book should be considered an added value.

    There is one jewelry designer that already picked up on this opportunity, Cora Sheibani is her name and here is one of her works: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bxvn_z3lFGH/
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
    Ss52, AV_, Big Fat Facets and 3 others like this.
  29. diamondseeker2006
    Super_Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    54,768
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    by diamondseeker2006 » Jul 6, 2019
    Thanks, @diagem Yoram! I once had an H strong blue and loved it. It had no negatives that I could see, and it was high clarity. I know sometimes certain inclusions like clouds and fluorescence don't do well together, so I'd avoid those. I feel like I need to collect a couple before the prices go up!

    Oh, and as a matter of fact, my original e-ring stone was F color and had medium blue! I actually didn't even know it for 25+ years or so when I decided to add side stones and change to platinum. The jeweler then told me, and he kind of had a negative tone, but I thought it was gorgeous and my favorite color! lol! I decided against changing that ring, and my DH said to just get a new ring for an anniversary! That's when I found PS!
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
    Big Fat Facets likes this.
  30. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

    Messages:
    5,618
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    by OoohShiny » Jul 6, 2019
    We are going to need pictures! ;-) :lol:

    How about a rare Type IIa with rare Red fluor? :D
    https://www.gia.edu/gems-gemology/s...less-type-iia-diamond-bright-red-fluorescence
     
    Big Fat Facets and lovedogs like this.

Share This Page