Disagreement with a Pricescope vendor about stones

[chrono]

Both GIA and AGL will verify mounted stones (rings, pendants, earrings, etc).

 

[Tourmaline]

Mary, you really don't seem to be reading what I am writing. I don't want to argue with you. Yes, I want a ring with red rubies and I have said repeatedly that I hope it does not come to a refund. I asked for a refund because I was unhappy with the lack of communication and it seemed that nothing was happenng, and the request for a refund led to communication from the jeweler. The point of this thread, as I have said already, was to see if others thought the stones were pink (as I do) or red (as the jeweler claims). I wanted to know which one of us was incorrect. I really don't want to have to keep typing these things over and over. If your only point in posting is to imply without saying so that you think I shouldn't have posted in the first place, ok, I hear you. You can stop repeating yourself.

The overwhelming majority of voters have concluded that these stones are pink and not red. That was helpful to me. The continued dialogue doesn't seem to be helpful.

 

[AprilBaby]

I would be interested in knowing why two people think these are red rubies? Not to bash them, just curious why they consider them red.

 

[chrono]

I didn't even look at the poll (and I did not vote).

 

[Tourmaline]

I would be interested in knowing why two people think these are red rubies? Not to bash them, just curious why they consider them red.

It's possible that the jeweler clicked on that, as he maintains that they are "pigeon blood red rubies." It's also possible that one of his friends wants to support him. It's is, of course, also possible that he didn't click on that at all, and that two of his friends want to support him.

 

[chrono]

Tourmaline,
Are you serious or just joking? If he really did that, I would remove him from my personal list of trusted/recommended vendors that I am willing to work with.

 

[sarahb]

Tourmaline,
Are you serious or just joking? If he really did that, I would remove him from my personal list of trusted/recommended vendors that I am willing to work with.

Chrono, keep in mind: regardless if Tourmaline is serious or not with her comment, not one of us knows who voted in this poll.

Just saying

I also fall into the camp of: those are not red, & she is doing the right thing by trying to work it out with the vender, & coming to the board for input etc.

I hope you get what you are looking for Tourmaline!

 

[Tourmaline]

Thank you, sarahb!

Chrono, I have no idea who voted. Just a possibility.

 

[chrono]

Okay, no problem. I figured you weren't really serious but just venting.

 

[Lizabeth]

You were smart to conduct this "poll." You're right. These stones are not red, and the vendor was wrong in trying to pretend that they are red and you are wrong. I'd order, pay for, and wear a beautiful red ruby eternity band; I would not order, pay for or wear a pink one. I would not want to be negotiating how to resolve this with a vendor whose position is that I'm the only customer who wouldn't consider those stones to be red.

If untreated "blood red" rubies are next to impossible to procure or prohibitively expensive, the vendor should said so at the outset and turned down the project, saying he could not create the ring described by the buyer. Yes, there are lots of shades of red, but "blood red" is a fairly descriptive and specific color -- that is NOT the color the stones in this ring are.

 

[sarahb]

If untreated "blood red" rubies are next to impossible to procure or prohibitively expensive, the vendor should said so at the outset and turned down the project, saying he could not create the ring described by the buyer. Yes, there are lots of shades of red, but "blood red" is a fairly descriptive and specific color -- that is NOT the color the stones in this ring are.

This exactly what Liz said: he should of communicated, as your instructions were clear.

IMO, as a vender, he's done this millions of times, i.e. created jewelry for someone. He is well versed in meeting client expectations & understands the fall out if things are not agreed upon prior to the actual build.

He should of gone to you to check you were fine with what he had planned to use. & your reaction to the ring spells out exactly why he didn't.

He knew the stones were not blood red, & hoped you'd accept once you had it in hand. You know, the old emotion vs head thing. Look at all the stuff on preloved, some are emotional purchases, I'd say.

 

[Harpertoo]

Tourmaline - Can I ask if you had received red stones with no statement regarding heat treatment would you have been OK with them?
I mean this very respectfully. I think many vendors would consider heat an acceptable/expected treatment unless the request for no treatment was expressly made.

I have a darker red ruby band and I have some that are dark pink but were called ruby....and I know that back lit, some dark rubies can appear dark pink in photos....but your band, sitting in a black box, w/o back lighting, appears pink to me. (Also as point of reference - Grace has 2 bands on her site that appear closer to what you are after color wise...probably treated, but fairly dark red /saturated.)

I hope you are able to get the band you want.

 

[Tourmaline]

Chrono, I don't think I was venting about the votes. Just speculating.

Lizabeth & sarahb, thanks for your support. I think that, at this point, he should step up and offer a refund if he has realized that he cannot deliver what he promised. He has not done this. He still maintains that I did receive "top of the line burma pigeon blood red rubies". I'll see what I think of his proposed replacements and then go from there.

Harpertoo, as I am still working with him on this, I don't want to talk about treated vs. untreated at this time. I see that I should have been more legalistic at the outset with this well-respected jeweler, which is disappointing. I looked on Grace's site and saw only one ruby eternity band, but the rubies appeared purple to me, rather than red.

He knows about this thread, he knows people are talking about the issue, and it would be remiss of him not to be concerned that I could name him if he were to not be able to deliver what he promised me, but refuse a refund. We'll see what happens.

 

[GliderPoss]

OP - I'm sorry you did not get what you specifically asked for.

On my monitor - the stones are bright saturated pink, not even close to what I would call Rubies.

Fingers crossed for a more positive result on the remake.

 

[Karl_K]

Chrono, I don't think I was venting about the votes. Just speculating.

Lizabeth & sarahb, thanks for your support. I think that, at this point, he should step up and offer a refund if he has realized that he cannot deliver what he promised. He has not done this. He still maintains that I did receive "top of the line burma pigeon blood red rubies". I'll see what I think of his proposed replacements and then go from there.

Harpertoo, as I am still working with him on this, I don't want to talk about treated vs. untreated at this time. I see that I should have been more legalistic at the outset with this well-respected jeweler, which is disappointing. I looked on Grace's site and saw only one ruby eternity band, but the rubies appeared purple to me, rather than red.

He knows about this thread, he knows people are talking about the issue, and it would be remiss of him not to be concerned that I could name him if he were to not be able to deliver what he promised me, but refuse a refund. We'll see what happens.

Your doing the right thing as far as this thread goes.
That is one of the things PS is for is to apply pressure to keep vendors on their toes when they legitimately mess up while providing support for consumers with problems with products.
How a vendor handles problems in 100x more important to their PS reputation than having no errors because everyone even the best is going to mess up sometime.

 

[marymm]

Mary, you really don't seem to be reading what I am writing. I don't want to argue with you. Yes, I want a ring with red rubies and I have said repeatedly that I hope it does not come to a refund. I asked for a refund because I was unhappy with the lack of communication and it seemed that nothing was happenng, and the request for a refund led to communication from the jeweler. The point of this thread, as I have said already, was to see if others thought the stones were pink (as I do) or red (as the jeweler claims). I wanted to know which one of us was incorrect. I really don't want to have to keep typing these things over and over. If your only point in posting is to imply without saying so that you think I shouldn't have posted in the first place, ok, I hear you. You can stop repeating yourself.

The overwhelming majority of voters have concluded that these stones are pink and not red. That was helpful to me. The continued dialogue doesn't seem to be helpful.

It is nice to think you're in charge of all content posted within your own thread, but of course as PS members we both know this is not the case.

It is true, my personal belief is that you are using this poll as a threat over a vendor who already has been working with you but may not have been as communicative you would have preferred.

That said, my particular posts in this thread were contributed so other members/lurkers who come across your thread now and in the future have the option of avoiding your situation, by taking some of the steps I (and others) have suggested before making a colored gemstone custom order - I consider this helpful posting and always appropriate.

Good luck with resolving your issue to your satisfaction.

eta: I have not voted in this poll nor will I.

 

[luv2sparkle]

Tourmaline, I do so hope for you that this is resolved to your satisfaction. Definitely pink, no question. They are a beautiful shade of pink. But very pink. I also hope that if you are not happy, you will tell us who the jeweler is. I have a ruby band ring on my bucket list, and I would have never thought to specify beyond pigeons blood red rubies. I think that is still the industry standard. When I have looked on websites for rubies, it is still the description vendors use. It is a good lesson for all of us.

I agree with the poster who said that they didn't show you the color before they made the ring because they knew they were more pink than red, and were hoping you would be ok with that once you had the ring in hand.

Another part of the problem with this vendor is their communication with you. Good communication would go a long way to making you feel like they are going to make good on finding you the rubies you asked for. Shame on them. A good vendor should know that and have worked accordingly in making you happy.

 

[distracts]

Quite frankly, I think you may be better served by melee-sized red spinels rather than red ruby. I've yet to see a natural melee-sized ruby that comes even close to the redness of the natural melee-sized red spinels I've seen. Most I've seen are pinkish or purplish, even in antique bands, even in high-end bands. Even synthetic ruby bands are usually a pinkish or purplish color. NO IDEA why, but because of this I have a general distrust of ruby.

 

[kenny]

He still maintains that I did receive "top of the line burma pigeon blood red rubies".
... I don't want to talk about treated vs. untreated at this time.

FWIW, those two statements are somewhat contradictory because, "top of the line burma pigeon blood red rubies" will be untreated.
There is nothing wrong with treated stones, but they are "not top of the line".
If he still maintains that "you did receive "top of the line burma pigeon blood red rubies", he is poorly informed.

The only way to be as sure as humanly possible of treatment or of the coveted Burmese origin is with an independent lab report for each stone, preferably AGS, but I doubt those labs will grade melee-sized stones.
If they did it would cost a fortune for 30+ reports.
Also, know that your vendor may be as honest as possible but is getting inaccurate information from his source.

So you are in a Catch 22.
I recommend letting go of the idea of getting 'top of the line Burma rubies' and accept for whatever stones he comes up with as long as they are a red that you find acceptable.
They are not likely to be from Burma, likely to be treated, and certainly will not have lab reports that prove anything the seller claims.
That, or pursue a refund.

I'm most certainly not one of PS's colored stones experts, but I do know colored stone expertise is very specialized and diamond vendors are not likely to have as much knowledge as a few the most knowledgeable folks on our Colored Stones forum.

Good luck and I hope this turns out well for you.

 

[Tourmaline]

Yes, kenny, "top of the line burma pigeon blood red rubies" implied untreated to me, too. It's one thing when you hear such promises from an anonymous dealer across the world, and quite another when the promise comes from a well-respected jeweler.

It seems to be a strong possibility that there is no way I will get what was promised. If that is the case, the gracious thing would be for him to offer me a refund. Again, we'll see what happens.

 

[Tourmaline]

It is true, my personal belief is that you are using this poll as a threat over a vendor who already has been working with you but may not have been as communicative you would have preferred.

His continued position that the stones he used are "pigeon blood red rubies" makes me not trust him. If he had instead admitted that he did not use "pigeon blood red rubies" I would've had no need to reach out for community support. When someone is dishonest, it helps to have avenues of support.

 

[noscrusir]

It is true, my personal belief is that you are using this poll as a threat over a vendor who already has been working with you but may not have been as communicative you would have preferred.

His continued position that the stones he used are "pigeon blood red rubies" makes me not trust him. If he had instead admitted that he did not use "pigeon blood red rubies" I would've had no need to reach out for community support. When someone is dishonest, it helps to have avenues of support.

If it is who I think it is, goodluck getting your money back. Though his craftsmanship may be top-notch, it's sad working with a jeweler doesn't have the customer's best interests in mind (bottom-line over piece-of-mind). Again, best of luck.

 

[Tourmaline]

If it is who I think it is, goodluck getting your money back. Though his craftsmanship may be top-notch, it's sad working with a jeweler doesn't have the customer's best interests in mind (bottom-line over piece-of-mind). Again, best of luck.

Thank you. It is not the one with the reputation for being horrible. I have spent over a year on this forum, hearing those stories, and he was not one of the jewelers I asked for a quote. A vendor's reputation means something, and I had no reservations at the outset of this project.

 

[kenny]

He still maintains that I did receive "top of the line burma pigeon blood red rubies".
... I don't want to talk about treated vs. untreated at this time.

FWIW, those two statements are somewhat contradictory because, "top of the line burma pigeon blood red rubies" will be untreated.
There is nothing wrong with treated stones, but they are not "top of the line".
If he still maintains that "you did receive "top of the line burma pigeon blood red rubies", he is poorly informed.

The only way to be as sure as humanly possible of treatment or of the coveted Burmese origin is with an independent lab report for each stone, preferably AGS, but I doubt those labs will grade melee-sized stones.
If they did it would cost a fortune for 30+ reports.
Also, know that your vendor may be as honest as possible but is getting inaccurate information from his source.

So you are in a Catch 22.
I recommend letting go of the idea of getting 'top of the line Burma rubies' and accept for whatever stones he comes up with as long as they are a red that you find acceptable.
They are not likely to be from Burma, likely to be treated, and certainly will not have lab reports that prove anything the seller claims.
That, or pursue a refund.

I'm most certainly not one of PS's colored stones experts, but I do know colored stone expertise is very specialized and diamond vendors are not likely to have as much knowledge as a few of our most knowledgeable folks on our Colored Stones forum.

Good luck and I hope this turns out well for you.

Correction: I mean AGL not AGS lab.

 

[sarahb]

Tourmaline,

I respect & understand your hesitancy to disclose this vender. Makes sense & I'd approach your dilemma the same.

However, given the particular circumstances, & given that this is a consumer forum, it would be of great benefit to others here, that the ID of this vender be given, once you have reached a satisfactory conclusion of your transaction.

Just my two cents--I'd like to have all facts on as many venders as possible to assist in my choices. I do have haunch who this is, but can't be totally sure.

 

[distracts]

I'm most certainly not one of PS's colored stones experts, but I do know colored stone expertise is very specialized and diamond vendors are not likely to have as much knowledge as a few the most knowledgeable folks on our Colored Stones forum.

In my experience, most diamond vendors don't have as much knowledge as CSers with even small amounts of knowledge. I certainly wouldn't consider myself anywhere near "most knowledgeable," but I come across many jewelers/diamond vendors who don't know anything about treatments... or that sapphires or garnets come in different colors... or many other things I'd consider pretty basic.

 

[luvsdmb]

Are you able to take you ring and have it checked to see if they are in fact rubies?

I'm hoping the vendor is able to make things right and gets you the color of rubies that will make you happy.
If they can't, you should get a full refund.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I will say this, I have photographed colored stones in brighter lighting where the stones looked lighter in tone like yours, but then in less bright lighting, they looked much richer and deeper in color. So I think I would be afraid to judge from that one picture. Can you post more pics in different lighting? Regardless, if they are pink, that is not what you wanted. But I do not think you can ever assume unheated since like 90 something percent of corundum is heated. I would not consider that a big deal in a band whatsoever (or even in a larger ring stone). And I think someone else said this, but top quality rubies can cost much more than diamonds. Custom ring makers may keep some diamond melee stock, but unless it is something they make often, I would think they usually order colored stone melee after an order is placed. And that is what they were sent when they ordered ruby melee. I think it is possible you may have trouble getting what you are seeking.

 

[kenny]

Good point about considering the photography may alter the appearance of the gems.

Yes lighting can certainly affect how gems look, but IMO that cannot explain away this particular pic.
Modern cameras do adjust the exposure when there is too much or too little light.
But, there's no way those could have been true rubies but look THAT different when the flesh tone of the hand holding the box looks so close to natural.



The stones have a TON of purplish pink in them ... but the skin tone the platinum, the black box and the light background does not.
The lighting, white balance, or anything else that affected the hue of the stones would also affect the hue of the skin the same amount in the same direction.

 

[AprilBaby]

Would garnets be considered pigeon blood red?