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Did I buy a lab created diamond or not?!?

Discussion in 'Laboratory-Grown Diamonds /Man-Made Diamonds (MMD)' started by Kaycee2018, Apr 2, 2019.

  1. Kaycee2018
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    by Kaycee2018 » Apr 2, 2019
    I purchased a diamond pre-loved that was advertised as a lab created diamond with no inscription or certificate. Upon receipt, I took it to two local jewelers:

    Jeweler A is reputable, but not exactly "decorated". They inspected the diamond, tested to confirm it is a real carbon diamond, gave an opinion on color and clarity grades, and gave the opinion that it is a natural diamond and not lab created based on the inclusions, florescence, etc.

    Jeweler B is an accredited AGS Gem Lab and is very highly regarded. Two gemologists there inspected the diamond: Gemologist 1, a Graduate Gemologist, tested to confirm it is a real carbon diamond and also opined that the diamond is mined and not lab created, but wanted their Certified Gemologist (Gemologist 2) to inspect it further. Gemologist 2 concurred that the diamond is a real carbon diamond and is mined and not lab created. I was told they have the tools in-house to actually test mined vs. lab. They offered to send it off to GIA for certification and will be providing a full appraisal.

    So my question is this...is it possible for all these jewelers and gemologists to be wrong? I really don't care either way as it was priced very reasonably for a pre-loved lab created diamond and I will be using it for random jewelry and not anything sentimental, but I just wanted some expert advise on if I how much weight I should give these opinions.

    Any and all input appreciated. Thanks!
     
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  2. Ss52
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    by Ss52 » Apr 2, 2019
    Does it have fluorescence? Lab grown diamonds don’t.
     
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  3. OoohShiny
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    by OoohShiny » Apr 2, 2019
    Edited for (what I think is) accuracy ;-) :D

    There are a couple of links to papers on how to tell Mined from Lab Grown - they are in two or three threads in this LGD/MMD section, maybe posted by one of the Trade members! :))
     
  4. Kaycee2018
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    by Kaycee2018 » Apr 2, 2019
    Thanks @OoohShiny . I did as much research as I could on how to tell the difference (thanks to Google and PS) and my PS search came up with a couple posts like the one below. As far as me being able to tell, I am not nearly knowledgeable enough for that LOL Obviously the stone not being inscribed or certified doesn’t help. And most everything I’ve found says that lab growns are usually inscribed and certified, usually have specific inclusion, etc. and also points to “Gemologists can usually tell”. I fully expected to be told it is a lab diamond but all three say it’s mined, which is why I’m perplexed. Is it possible for a lab grown to fool three jewelers/gemologists? Sorry if this has specifically answered here already...I wasn’t able to find a definitive answer.

    https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/could-a-gemologist-tell.245849/
     
    


    


  5. AV_
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by AV_ » Apr 3, 2019
    I asume each said what they expected you wished to hear. GIA doesn't need to...
     
  6. Kaycee2018
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    by Kaycee2018 » Apr 3, 2019
    Thanks, but I highly doubt these jewelers are in the business of telling customers what they think they want to hear. These aren’t mall/chain stores but local reputable jewelers. If they were trying to be unscrupulous in any way, I would think they would downplay the diamond I brought in for inspection and tried to sell me something of their own. I was open with them about just wanting info on the diamond, an appraisal, not caring either way and it being returnable. I can’t imagine an incentive for these jewelers, particularly Jeweler B who I am getting the actual appraisal from, to risk their reputation by alledging a diamond that they didn’t even sell is mined and when it is actually lab created.
     
  7. AV_
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    by AV_ » Apr 3, 2019
    @Keycee2018 Then, they do not know that they do not know - not at all easy.

    I wonder if anyone has tested the GIA in the same way.
     
  8. OoohShiny
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  9. OoohShiny
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    by OoohShiny » Apr 3, 2019
    Found what I was looking for, with thanks to DenverAppraiser for posting it! :)
    https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-on-hpht-synthetics-fall-2017.235388/
    >>>
    https://www.gia.edu/gems-gemology/fall-2017-observations-hpht-grown-synthetic-diamonds

    There's a massive amount of info in that report but it's really interesting :)
     
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  10. OoohShiny
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    by OoohShiny » Apr 3, 2019
    As per _AV, I'll be interested to hear what GIA say :))
     
    


    


  11. Kaycee2018
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    by Kaycee2018 » Apr 3, 2019
    Thanks for the links @OoohShiny ! Lots of interesting reading. I am undecided on sending it to GIA since the total cost with shipping (at least $200) would be nearly 30% of what I paid for the diamond. So the cost in and of itself isn't really worth it, though for peace of mind and to satisfy my own curiosity it is tempting. I'd have no issue with it being lab grown since I purchased it based on that premise and I intend to use it for a random piece of jewelry and not anything sentimental (more like "glorified costume jewelry" LOL). My main concern was confirming it isn't a moissanite or other simulant, which has 100% been confirmed by all. I was really just taken aback by all the jeweler's and gemologist's confirmation that it is not lab created even after specifically asking...particularly with Jeweler B as they are an accredited AGS Gem Lab who allegedly have the specific equipment in-house to test lab vs. mined.

    I do appreciate all the input and opinions. I'll update here if I decide to send it to GIA.
     
  12. denverappraiser
    Ideal_Rock
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    by denverappraiser » Apr 3, 2019
    Identifying moissanite is pretty easy. I obviously can't speak for these other gemologists and I've never been a fan of the approach of using '3 out of 4' experts say ...', but it's not a hard question. If you otherwise find them credible, I would believe them on this.

    The testing for lab vs mined can be tricky and beyond the scope of most jewelry stores. The tool to REALLY answer that question costs more than $50,000 and few have it. More modest equipment is available for much less money but has a 2% false negative (calling a natural synthetic). For most purposes, like yours, that's acceptable. This could explain why your seller might call it synthetic even if it's not. The AGS store should be able to answer if they have done this by simply asking. Inclusions can definitely be a tell. There are inclusions that appear ONLY in natural stones and other inclusions that appear only in synthetics. They aren't always there but it's worth a look. As with the above, I can't speak to what was done in this case but it's a valid enough statement. In many cases, you can make the separation this way.
     
  13. Kaycee2018
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    by Kaycee2018 » Apr 3, 2019
    Thanks, @denverappraiser ! I pulled the trigger on sending it to GIA, so it is being sent out today and should be back in a couple weeks. Despite it being cost prohibitive based on what I paid and for it's intended use, not to mention I don't expect it to come back as a ExExEx, etc., but my curiosity got the best of me. To be continued...
     
  14. OoohShiny
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    by OoohShiny » Apr 3, 2019
    Cool :)

    If it is a Mined stone then a GIA report can only help its value in the future :))
     
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  15. Misslady
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    by Misslady » Apr 5, 2019
    @Kaycee2018 by any chance, did you get your diamond from idonowidont.com? I saw a lab grown diamond ring on there a little over a week ago and was going to pull the trigger, but end up backing out because there was no certificate or inscription. I instantly regretted it as soon as I saw the listing was gone. It would be crazy if you were the person who ended up purchasing that ring!
     
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  16. Kaycee2018
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    by Kaycee2018 » Apr 19, 2019
    Thought I’d give an update...called the jeweler for the status on my diamond since it’s been with GIA for over two weeks now. She called GIA and was told that my diamond was sent for “advanced color grading” and will take another week or so. Anyone know what the heck that means? Is this any clue as to if it is lab created or natural? Do they think it’s enhanced or treated or is that something they can determine right away? Could it be a fancy color? Not sure what prompts a diamond to be sent for advanced color grading. The saga continues...
     
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  17. OoohShiny
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    by OoohShiny » Apr 19, 2019
    Interesting!

    I know that MMDs can require additional testing to confirm if they're Mined or MMD - perhaps that is what they are doing rather than simply testing colour? Perhaps it is Type IIa, which is rare in nature but common in MMDs?

    I can't wait to see what the outcome is! :)
     
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  18. Kaycee2018
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    by Kaycee2018 » Apr 27, 2019
    Final update...GIA report came back as a lab created grey diamond. As others have mentioned, the equipment used by the local jeweler to test isn’t 100% accurate. Lab or mined is fine by me as long as it isn’t a simulant (though I wouldn’t have bothered sending it off to GIA if it was confirmed locally as lab created).

    I’m liking the grey color since blacks, greys and neutrals are my jam lol. The report doesn’t show a clarity grade, but the jeweler estimates it at SI1 and I can see some rainbow arrows in certain lighting. I’m having fun working on something to highlight the grey and will post some pics when it’s complete.

    Thanks for everyone’s input!
     
  19. OoohShiny
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    by OoohShiny » Apr 27, 2019
    Awesome :) Cool that you have a great story to go with it as well!
     
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  20. MissStepcut
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    by MissStepcut » Apr 28, 2019
    Wow that’s an exciting find, I take it you didn’t know it was grey?
     
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  21. Kaycee2018
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    by Kaycee2018 » Apr 29, 2019
    Thanks. Honestly, the diamond was delivered to my home on a Friday and I didn’t get in until late that night (and after drinks LOL), so I didn’t even look at it until the next morning and even then I basically took it straight to the two jewelers for their opinions (I just wanted confirmation that it was a diamond and not a simulant). I could see a tint to it, but didn’t take any time to compare it to anything and didn’t even take pictures. I didn’t pay much for it, so I wasn’t terribly vested in the results from GIA. But now that it’s come back as grey, I’m looking forward to doing something different with it (I originally bought it for a pendant or three stone ring). I consider it more of fashion jewelry, so it will be a fun project.
     
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  22. Kaycee2018
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    by Kaycee2018 » Jun 5, 2019
    Here's the final product! It's hard to capture in photos, but it has a light blue-grey tint in some lighting. I may swap the MMD out for a mined diamond or colored gemstone at some point if I tire of it. The setting is from Stuller and the accent diamonds were selected by my local jeweler.

    MMD.jpg
     
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  23. OoohShiny
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    by OoohShiny » Jun 5, 2019
    That looks lovely, congratulations! :))
     
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  24. kgizo
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    by kgizo » Jun 5, 2019
    Your pendant turned out great! Neck shots, please.
     
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  25. Runningmama
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  26. Kaycee2018
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    by Kaycee2018 » Jun 6, 2019
    Thank you, @OoohShiny , @kgizo & @Runningmama ! For a stone with unknown specs, it has a good bit of sparkle to it and the setting exceeded my expectations (and the cost of the center stone LOL), so if I tire of the MMD I will definitely be putting something else in it. I'll be wearing it to some events this weekend for the first time (I am not one to really wear a diamond necklace on the daily).
     
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  27. OoohShiny
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    by OoohShiny » Jun 6, 2019
    I hope you have a lovely time! :))
     
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  28. iluvshinythings
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  29. MissStepcut
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  30. Phanie
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    by Phanie » Aug 3, 2019
    where did you buy it, if I may ask?
    Thanks
    \
     

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