Elmira19
Rough_Rock
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What a big g price difference!!! I wonder why it’s a final sale?
decisions decisions....Please Help!
- Thread starter Elmira19
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Most likely bc it's a rock bottom price and they don't want to incur any additional shipping charges going back and forth, etc.
What's the hesitation now? I hope you put it on hold.
Elmira19
Rough_Rock
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I did put a request for IS ad ASET and they replied me back yesterday that supplier doesn’t have machinery to take images
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You don’t need an asset for that diamond, it is a gorgeous stone with perfect angles and literally everything that you wanted on your wish list. You can tell from the video that the stone exhibits great symmetry and light return. It is kind of crazy that the stone is still available..I did put a request for IS ad ASET and they replied me back yesterday that supplier doesn’t have machinery to take images
Edit: BN rarely if ever provides ASETs, this is not new news. However, you want to upgrade with them and this stone is guaranteed amazing performance even simply based on its cut proportions. Further, you can see a video, which also speaks for the way the stone performs. An ASET is not panacea. You can buy one for $20 and evaluate it yourself after getting the stone.
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Before I dive into any additional details, if you haven't already done so PLEASE call and get this stone put on hold so someone doesn't snatch it out from under you. It appears @ac117 found you a unicorn and I don't want someone else pouching it from you.
With questions about the "final sale" note on the ED web page, it made me wonder how BN might react or respond to that. Consequently I started digging for more info. Here is their Diamond Match policy:
https://www.bluenile.com/services/diamond-price-match/terms
These lines in particular stuck out to me for the following reasons:
14 - Since you are upgrading your current diamond, does this exclude you?
15&16 - While I personally don't consider "final sale" to encompass these line items, will BN? If I were in your situation and trying to get a price match, I would NOT bring this to their attention. You will have to provide a link to the ED web page and they will verify. If this isn't acceptable, it's their team's responsibility to find it and reject for that reason (or impose a similar term on their matched sale price to you).
17 - Who is the objective person that determines a lower price is a typographical error or not? It seems obvious if a stone would normally be $15,000 but was marked $1,500. It's just an open ended statement.
23 - Awesome sauce. So pretty much BN reserves the right to do whatever they want.
Very smart of them, but not so great for the consumer should BN just not want to price match for whatever reason.
Sorry @Elmira19. As I already pointed out, you can buy your own scopes and then have an objective method to confirm light performance & symmetry. To minimize expenses, an ASET is all you need for light performance. The IS is nice but the ASET trumps it. A H&A viewer would confirm symmetry, but I doubt that is your biggest concern here.
Cheapest price on ASET available here ($25 base price + approx $12 shipping = approx $37 total). Just went through this and bought one a few weeks ago.
https://www.americangemsociety.org/page/ASETOrder
The reason we encourage an ASET scope (or image) to confirm angles is because of the differences that GIA and AGS reports data. GIA uses an older 2D method that requires some funky averaging and rounding and takes less samples for that data. Consequently, when you see a crown of 35 and pavilion of 40.6 reported, there could be ACTUAL higher or lower values but because of limited selection, rounding & averaging you see different values reported on the GIA cert.
The problem arises because we use those numbers on the GIA report to enter into the HCA and also the AGS proportions chart to confirm where we THINK the cut may land. From that data we make assumptions on cut quality. This isn't to say there IS a problem, but there COULD BE a problem. The ASET enables us to CONFIRM our assumptions in an objective method.
With AGS, there is a complex 3D modeling that occurs on each specific stone. More values are taken and with more precision. This is how AGS is able to assign cut grades to their stones. Also, AGS stones have computer generated ASET models on the certificates indicating what should be shown in actual ASET imaging.
While the two methods are vastly different, it is still very possible to score a great GIA stone. The stone in question I think is a great stone, and I think you are safe. I give you this information not to scare you, but to make you aware.
To recap:
1. GIA cert values look great -- 55 table, 62.2 depth, 35 CA & 40.6 PA.
2. HCA checks out -- 0.9 with excellent on light return, scintillation & fire, and very good for spread (diameter for weight).
3. AGS proportions check out -- see chart below. Notice how it lands where I drew the black box. Trying to account for GIA funky rounding & averaging noted above, I drew a larger blue box and it seems very likely you are so deep in ideal territory this stone WILL perform beautifully.
4. With the stone on hold (you did place on hold like I said earlier, right?), you now have to make a gut call. It seems very likely the stone will be gorgeous and beautiful. If BN is not imposing a "final sale" condition on you then it's a no brainer you order the stone, get you an ASET scope and do your verification at home. If you don't like you return, and start over. The situation gets more complex if BN has imposed a final sale condition also. Now you can't return and have to assess if the risk is worth the potential reward. It certainly seems likely it is so I would probably still order the stone. But it's a lot of money and you need to be comfortable with that decision. Hopefully, all this data has helped you become more comfortable with that decision if you are put in this situation.
With questions about the "final sale" note on the ED web page, it made me wonder how BN might react or respond to that. Consequently I started digging for more info. Here is their Diamond Match policy:
https://www.bluenile.com/services/diamond-price-match/terms
These lines in particular stuck out to me for the following reasons:
14 - Since you are upgrading your current diamond, does this exclude you?
15&16 - While I personally don't consider "final sale" to encompass these line items, will BN? If I were in your situation and trying to get a price match, I would NOT bring this to their attention. You will have to provide a link to the ED web page and they will verify. If this isn't acceptable, it's their team's responsibility to find it and reject for that reason (or impose a similar term on their matched sale price to you).
17 - Who is the objective person that determines a lower price is a typographical error or not? It seems obvious if a stone would normally be $15,000 but was marked $1,500. It's just an open ended statement.
23 - Awesome sauce. So pretty much BN reserves the right to do whatever they want.
Very smart of them, but not so great for the consumer should BN just not want to price match for whatever reason.I did put a request for IS ad ASET and they replied me back yesterday that supplier doesn’t have machinery to take images
Sorry @Elmira19. As I already pointed out, you can buy your own scopes and then have an objective method to confirm light performance & symmetry. To minimize expenses, an ASET is all you need for light performance. The IS is nice but the ASET trumps it. A H&A viewer would confirm symmetry, but I doubt that is your biggest concern here.
Cheapest price on ASET available here ($25 base price + approx $12 shipping = approx $37 total). Just went through this and bought one a few weeks ago.
https://www.americangemsociety.org/page/ASETOrder
The reason we encourage an ASET scope (or image) to confirm angles is because of the differences that GIA and AGS reports data. GIA uses an older 2D method that requires some funky averaging and rounding and takes less samples for that data. Consequently, when you see a crown of 35 and pavilion of 40.6 reported, there could be ACTUAL higher or lower values but because of limited selection, rounding & averaging you see different values reported on the GIA cert.
The problem arises because we use those numbers on the GIA report to enter into the HCA and also the AGS proportions chart to confirm where we THINK the cut may land. From that data we make assumptions on cut quality. This isn't to say there IS a problem, but there COULD BE a problem. The ASET enables us to CONFIRM our assumptions in an objective method.
With AGS, there is a complex 3D modeling that occurs on each specific stone. More values are taken and with more precision. This is how AGS is able to assign cut grades to their stones. Also, AGS stones have computer generated ASET models on the certificates indicating what should be shown in actual ASET imaging.
While the two methods are vastly different, it is still very possible to score a great GIA stone. The stone in question I think is a great stone, and I think you are safe. I give you this information not to scare you, but to make you aware.
To recap:
1. GIA cert values look great -- 55 table, 62.2 depth, 35 CA & 40.6 PA.
2. HCA checks out -- 0.9 with excellent on light return, scintillation & fire, and very good for spread (diameter for weight).
3. AGS proportions check out -- see chart below. Notice how it lands where I drew the black box. Trying to account for GIA funky rounding & averaging noted above, I drew a larger blue box and it seems very likely you are so deep in ideal territory this stone WILL perform beautifully.
4. With the stone on hold (you did place on hold like I said earlier, right?), you now have to make a gut call. It seems very likely the stone will be gorgeous and beautiful. If BN is not imposing a "final sale" condition on you then it's a no brainer you order the stone, get you an ASET scope and do your verification at home. If you don't like you return, and start over. The situation gets more complex if BN has imposed a final sale condition also. Now you can't return and have to assess if the risk is worth the potential reward. It certainly seems likely it is so I would probably still order the stone. But it's a lot of money and you need to be comfortable with that decision. Hopefully, all this data has helped you become more comfortable with that decision if you are put in this situation.
Elmira19
Rough_Rock
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So I requested price match and it will take a day or two for them to see if they can do it. They said no need to check the diamond performance because it’s vs2 and inclusions can’t be noticeable and can’t affect the diamond performance?! And I also have plan B just in case if they don’t do price match for me?! https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...DiamondDetails&action=newTab&catalogView=true This diamond I like also even if it’s with med fluorescence. My HCA doesn’t work today so I can’t check score of it. What do you think guys? Which diamond would you choose for same $$?
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Lykame
Brilliant_Rock
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Well done for putting the E VS2 on hold.
I would choose the E VS2. I prefer the angles of it and the smaller table. I would go as far as to say that if you were willing to pay that money for the F SI1 then be willing to pay the same money for the E VS2.
Why?
Firstly I just don't like the F SI1 angles as much. It is technically deep in ideal territory with the steep crown and pavillion angles but the table is larger. That's just my personal preference.
Secondly, I know the F SI1 is larger, but what follows is also just my personal opinion. The grade making SI1 is a feather, and looking at the magnified video, that's an easy to see feather on that video and it looks like it's at the girdle. It's possibly even surface reaching. From a vendor like Bluenile, where I don't have an expert to reassure me about it, I would be cautious about the feather.
There's a lot of debate about feathers, and in general they're nothing to worry abou - a lot of diamonds have them - but those characteristics of this particular feather give me cause for concern. Perhaps someone with more experience can chime in.
So even though it's smaller, I feel way more comfortable with the E VS2 and and would pay the Bluenile price for it if the price match wasn't possible.
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I agree with the others. Definitely secure the E/VS2. As for the images (IS and ASET), I really don't think they're necessary in this case, and I think they're overemphasized on this site in general. You can tell from this video that the diamond has excellent light return and will be a nice performer.
Yes, IS and ASET images are helpful if there's no video available, or if there is only a very poor video available (like the kind of videos that are typically available on Enchanted, Adimore, etc.), as they allow you to gauge light-return in ways that a static picture of the diamond does not permit. But for diamonds with the dynamic 3D videos in good lighting environments (like those found on BN and JA) it's fairly easy to gauge whether a diamond exhibits good light return simply by observing various aspects of how the diamond appears in the video. After looking at enough of these videos, I'm pretty sure that I could tell you 9 times of 10 exactly how the IS would come out just based on the video alone. And the E/VS2 in question would have a nice IS.
Yes, IS and ASET images are helpful if there's no video available, or if there is only a very poor video available (like the kind of videos that are typically available on Enchanted, Adimore, etc.), as they allow you to gauge light-return in ways that a static picture of the diamond does not permit. But for diamonds with the dynamic 3D videos in good lighting environments (like those found on BN and JA) it's fairly easy to gauge whether a diamond exhibits good light return simply by observing various aspects of how the diamond appears in the video. After looking at enough of these videos, I'm pretty sure that I could tell you 9 times of 10 exactly how the IS would come out just based on the video alone. And the E/VS2 in question would have a nice IS.
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What?
To be clear, VS2 is typically a good indicator a stone will be eye clean and not have inclusions that will be detrimental to the structural integrity of the stone and typically will not affect light performance.
There are VS2 stones that has problematic claritybut I would agree the majority should not. Hence the reason I used the term typically earlier. While odds are high and this video of the E VS2 appears it is good you cannot just make that blanket assumption.
IMO it was wrong of BN to tell you that.
Additionally while clarity can hinder light performance, it does not determine it. You could have a VS1 with bad angle combos and while the clarity may not hurt performance the angles will never allow it to be a good light performing stone. Same deal with symmetry. Those stones exhibiting excellent symmetry (labeled as H&A stones) help enhance light performance. Get a stone with decent angles and poor symmetry and it won't perform as well as one with good angles and good symmetry, regardless of the clarity grade.
Just be clear that while clarity can hurt light performance, simply stating it's a VS2 does not mean it's an awesome stone which sounds like what BN tried to say.
I agree the video and everything looks good for that particular E VS2 and it sounds like BN will not or cannot provide performance images. I think the stone is worth the $14k or $12k and would order regardless.
I'd also order me an ASET scope and confirm performance on my own when it arrives. If it's not what you expected then you can return at that point but it seems very likely it will be a good performer.
I don't like the backup as well. The 35.5 crown technically works with a 40.6 pavilion but is pushing it. I already explained how GIA averages and rounds their values and I don't like the stone for pushing the fringe and then knowing how they report could kick you out of ideal territory.
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So they can’t do price match for me
I still think it's a good bang for the buck. Just a shame you can't stuff that other $2k in your pocket.
Did they give you a reason why they couldn't honor it? I suspect it had to do with the rules I posted earlier, probably the one about not being able to price match for the trade-in program.
If so, maybe it would be worth asking them to make an exception. Tell them you have been a loyal customer and it seems unfair they give that to NEW customers, when you want to spend MORE money with them and will likely do so again in the future. Maybe question why it's fair such incentives are only available for new customers.
There is a possibility they may meet you half way -- around $13k -- which would also be a win.
Elmira19
Rough_Rock
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yeah they can’t do it because it’s trade up. And I asked them for any discount and they said that they can’t even apply discounts for trade up program. Oh well! He said it’s the best stone I could get! Hopefully he is right! And I still pressured them to put a request for aset and is images ( before I asked enchanted diamonds to do that) and also asked to check if its not cloudy or anything . Hopefully there is no reason that Gia from January and no one took it... maybe because of price!
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It never hurts to ask for that data. Some people here dismiss the value in it, but to me the more data you have the more capable you are to make a purchase decision with less risk. But at the end of the day, you can always order it and have it shipped. If you don't like it, be sure to return it within the 30 day return window and we will help you find another stone.
So for the money, what you are getting is the E color and VS2 clarity.
So for the money, what you are getting is the E color and VS2 clarity.
Lykame
Brilliant_Rock
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So they can’t do price match for me
Woooooo! Yay! Congratulations! Really pleased you've made that decision! Are you getting it sent to you loose or set already? How long will it take to arrive?
You have to show us pictures!!! MANY pictures!
I can understand it's a bit of a bummer having to pay the extra but this is going to be an amazingly mind clean stone for you and everything about it says it's going to be an excellent performer. I hope they are able to prove an ASET image for you at the very least as that would be nice but the angles are seriously reassuring.
I agree with @sledge that it's always wonderful to be as armed with as much information as possible especially for such important purchases, but equally I think this will be a great stone and worth the risk.
Have a think about getting your own ASET scope. However, I do think it's a personal choice. There are many many people who buy diamonds and who are delighted and enthralled with them, and they have never seen the ASET scope image. That's fine! Their eyes are happy, their mind is happy and most importantly their heart is happy.
For me my mind will only be happy with an ASET scope image but that's not the case for everyone and only you can decide on the importance of that data for you.
Again, really delighted for you!
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For me my mind will only be happy with an ASET scope image but that's not the case for everyone and only you can decide on the importance of that data for you.
Again, really delighted for you!
For a mere $37 w/ shipping your eyes, mind, heart AND inner nerd can all be happy.
https://www.americangemsociety.org/page/ASETOrder
Lykame
Brilliant_Rock
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Already done! Own.For a mere $37 w/ shipping your eyes, mind, heart AND inner nerd can all be happy.
https://www.americangemsociety.org/page/ASETOrder
Yay nerd me! I had the pleasure of paying $68 total for mine - the scope was a lovely $25 but the shipping to England...
Anyway, I have to be really clear that AGS were pretty great actually, the original shipping cost they quoted me (presumably because they're used to shipping diamonds?!) made the total ~$108. Their system is clever though, there's a box you can tick that gets them to email you before they process your card details, and I was able to discuss with them cheaper alternatives...!
Elmira19
Rough_Rock
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I asked them to set it in my ring, because I figure out if I love how it looks with my setting and if it’s sparkly then I love it anyway without any aset images.. but if I don’t like look of it then even images can’t help it! I got email back from them this morning that the diamond is eye clean and not milky or hazy... anything else I should ask them other than images which they can’t provide me? And for sure I will post pictures here when I get my ring back!
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Here is some good information to help you better understand.
https://beyond4cs.com/carat/diamond-cut-too-deep-or-shallow/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-can-you-tell-if-a-diamond-is-too-deep.23642/
https://beyond4cs.com/carat/diamond-cut-too-deep-or-shallow/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-can-you-tell-if-a-diamond-is-too-deep.23642/
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I understand what you are saying, and even agree our eyes are the most important factor in determining if a stone is acceptable or not. That said, are your eyes qualified to make a good judgment call? It seems obvious you know what looks good to you, and what doesn't. But what if all you've seen is poor and the diamond presented is fair? Or vice versa, what if all you've seen is super ideal and you've been presented with excellent or very good?
All I'm saying is what you have or haven't seen plays into the equation.
The advantage of having an ASET scope gives you an objective method to confirm what you are seeing is good or not. Or if you are like me, you just like to look at the nitty gritty details to make sure it's the diamond you ordered, expected and forked over all that hard earned cash to get.
When I was looking around I had the vendors pull similar stones and compare against one another and give me a verbal report about how fiery the stone was that I was considering purchasing. The comparison stones I tried to get the same size, color and best cut available so I'd have a good comparison.
Happytobemrsg
Shiny_Rock
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I've been lurking on this thread & cannot wait to see your new diamond!!! Did they say when it'll arrive?
Elmira19
Rough_Rock
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I didn’t ask about this one specifically, but they told me before that whole process will take about 2 to 3 weeks! For sure I’ll post pictures here when I get it!!!!
Elmira19
Rough_Rock
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Got a message today that my ring will be delivered on 27th I’m happy and paranoid at the same time, thinking what if I could get bigger stone but with lower clarity and color.. and I wouldn’t notice color change/clarity with my eyes, but what I would notice is Size difference... made me think. Because I see some topics here when people with same budget looking for 1,7 carat diamonds... Haha that’s me, I always find a reason to worry about!
I’m happy and paranoid at the same time, thinking what if I could get bigger stone but with lower clarity and color.. and I wouldn’t notice color change/clarity with my eyes, but what I would notice is Size difference... made me think. Because I see some topics here when people with same budget looking for 1,7 carat diamonds... Haha that’s me, I always find a reason to worry about!
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Lykame
Brilliant_Rock
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Got a message today that my ring will be delivered on 27th
You prioritised the things that were important to you! They prioritise the things important to them or the things they think matter to their significant other. You obviously have certain things that make you feel something is not mind clean. And you're lucky, because you're buying for yourself and you know what does and does not bother you. That becomes something that is then part of the cost... Financial and otherwise!
I would rather get a smaller stone that is mind clean and more expensive then a larger stone where I constantly think 'I can see x/y/z when I look at it in certain conditions, is it because I should have gone up in clarity/colour or whatever'. Honestly, trust me on this, it's not worth it to spend all that money and be made to feel that way!
I feel sure you are going to love your diamond.
Elmira19
Rough_Rock
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You are absolutely right! I’m just nervous!:rollYou prioritised the things that were important to you! They prioritise the things important to them or the things they think matter to their significant other. You obviously have certain things that make you feel something is not mind clean. And you're lucky, because you're buying for yourself and you know what does and does not bother you. That becomes something that is then part of the cost... Financial and otherwise!
I would rather get a smaller stone that is mind clean and more expensive then a larger stone where I constantly think 'I can see x/y/z when I look at it in certain conditions, is it because I should have gone up in clarity/colour or whatever'. Honestly, trust me on this, it's not worth it to spend all that money and be made to feel that way!
I feel sure you are going to love your diamond.
Lykame
Brilliant_Rock
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Totally understand. Hopefully some of those nerves are nerves of excitement!
Elmira19
Rough_Rock
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I got my ring today. Very disappointed with packaging. Ring box wasn’t places right so it was just moving around in the package. Gia cert is slightly rumpled. Well but the most upsetting part that I have to send my ring back because they rebuild my setting I believe and they didn’t put diamonds right on one side. Two diamonds set deeper than others so they appear darker. But before they were perfect. So just I’m just sad. New diamond looks good, it’s a very cloudy day today so I can’t really see sparkle when I’m outside but inside it sparkles.
Lykame
Brilliant_Rock
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Awww shame they have bodged the setting. Please take lots of pictures not only to show us but to show them!
Also complain about the packaging, annoying for you to have a crumpled certificate! (Although at least they included it, that's one thing!)
Before you send it back speak to them and see what they say. Perhaps others will have some tips for how to manage this.
But please show us pictures!
Please take lots of pictures not only to show us but to show them!Also complain about the packaging, annoying for you to have a crumpled certificate! (Although at least they included it, that's one thing!)
Before you send it back speak to them and see what they say. Perhaps others will have some tips for how to manage this.
But please show us pictures!
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