decisions decisions....Please Help!

[sledge]

I agree that I'd rather work with a vendor that has possession. But BN can't walk outside and look at the stone because they very likely don't have it in their office. They are a drop shipper. They call the stone from a vendor who delivers it to them. The fact that they can't pick a good stone is not uncommon, IMHO. That's why we are here to help the posters.

Others have posted options, but I can look after work if you don't make a decision beforehand. Maybe some PS member can search for stones within the OP's wish-range that are Medium or less flour to show options? Maybe a few SI1 that look good?

Maybe I missed a bullet by not working with a drop shipper. While I understand they are dealing in virtual inventory, what amazes me is they have absolutely ZERO relationship (or desire to build a relationship) with their vendors that would allow something as simple as walking outside to confirm how the stone reacts. This literally takes ZERO advanced technology. A phone call or email, and about 5 minutes to look at the stone and report back via phone/email.

It seems like both BN and their supplier would WANT this communication, so a stone is not shipped half way around the world only to be rejected. I'm not sure the return policy between BN and their supplier, but because they are buying in bulk I have to assume they have some sort of guarantee so they don't have to inventory crap stones.

Again, just seems like 5 minutes of efforts saves lots of dollars and hassle for all parties. But it's not my battle to fight I suppose.

The images, eh, I kind of get. Funny how other drop shippers can get limited images and some can't. Having worked with multiple suppliers (not diamond related) from around the country and world, I know limitations like these are a result of buying power and/or strong (or poor) negotiating techniques.

I will take a look and see if I can find anything more that @ac117 hasn't already covered. She and several others have provided several great options in comparison to anything that BN has guided her towards.

Of course, this isn't surprising -- the crew here is spot on when it comes to picking great stones! Hands down, much better than the old way of going in a B&M store and listening to sales pitches, etc that make you want to bang your head against a wall.

I get WHY you're suggesting this, but you already have a bunch of times on this thread and the OP doesn't want to go this route so we're trying to find her the best we can at BN and mitigate the risks. Why keep adding fuel to the fire? We all know BN is a drop shipper. They work with wholesalers who, yes, are not always the most cooperative and they don't provide the images we like to see and obviously not all go the extra mile. But $10k won't get her what she wants now at another vendor - especially not a super ideal vendor - without dropping size and or color and clarity. So work with the OP to find the best SHE wants. I think I've mentioned this to you in another thread, too, but it doesn't seem to sink in....

It's not that it hasn't sunk in. I did ask her about this earlier in the beginning to understand, and then after she explained I changed directions and contributed to this thread in a different manner. I agree I went off on a tangent earlier and I should stop b*tching about it.

I do agree she won't be picking up a stone with her requirements and budget from a super ideal vendor. I'd just like to see her work with someone that is easier to deal with, even if they are a drop shipper. I hate the fact her dollars will support someone that isn't really supporting her.

Regardless I will try to help and support her the best I can by keeping my opinions to myself and staying on topic to diamonds only.

 

[Elmira19]

Hi @Elmira19,

I am just chiming in to say that this diamond found by @ac117 looks pretty spectacular:
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...DiamondDetails&action=newTab&catalogView=true

The diamond looks to be very transparent and I wouldn’t worry about the fluoresce at all at this time. You will be able to inspect the stone and take it to an appraiser if needed.

I have had two fluorescent diamonds in the past, one had strong flouro and the other one had very strong flouro. The strong flouro diamond was a BGD blue diamond, however, the very strong blue flouro diamond had an interesting story. I had the diamond recut by BGD and the results were so great, that I was able to brand it to be a BGD “Blue signature” stone. I am sharing this with you, so that you are aware that most diamonds with flouro, branded or not, will be perfectly fine in real life. The other very small percent of diamonds that might be affected due to flouro are honestly easy to detect, especially in high magnification photos. They look similar to the below and that would have most likely been visible in the BN video:

I just found couple pics in google with diamonds with strong blue fluorescence and my question is- is it normal when they look like those ones in the sunlight? Or they look like this only when fluorescent affect diamond performance and they look milky? Because my other stone with stein blue fluorescence doesn’t look like this... but I’m wondering... if it’s okay reaction to sunlight?

 

[sledge]

1.65ct, G, SI1 (need to verify if eye clean), medium fluor, HCA Score 1.0, 7.62 x 7.63mm - $12,297
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD10217943




1.51ct, H, VS1, no fluor, HCA score 1.5, 7.34 x 7.39mm - $12,080
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD10510082

 

[sledge]

FYI, below is a screen shot of the 1.65 vs 1.51ct diamonds using actual dimensions.

https://www.diamdb.com/compare/1.65ct-round-7.62x7.63x4.67-vs-1.51ct-round-7.34x7.39x4.55/

 

[ac117]

It's not that it hasn't sunk in. I did ask her about this earlier in the beginning to understand, and then after she explained I changed directions and contributed to this thread in a different manner. I agree I went off on a tangent earlier and I should stop b*tching about it.

I do agree she won't be picking up a stone with her requirements and budget from a super ideal vendor. I'd just like to see her work with someone that is easier to deal with, even if they are a drop shipper. I hate the fact her dollars will support someone that isn't really supporting her.

Regardless I will try to help and support her the best I can by keeping my opinions to myself and staying on topic to diamonds only.

The super ideal vendor stones come with a premium BECAUSE they include their upgrade policies, all of the images and videos (which obviously require time and time costs money), and the service and ability to pull stones from in house inventory - and some people always want this and are willing to pay the extra and that's great! BN and other drop shippers can sell stones at a lesser price point because they do not have those bells and whistles and it's up to us to help the OP filter through to help them get what they want. Different strokes for different folks. It's like going to a very high end restaurant where there's always someone standing by to pull out your chair if you get up, fold your napkin, refresh your water after every sip...you're obviously paying big bucks for the food AND service...and then bashing another restaurant where you don't get that same level of service, albeit still very good service, but you're paying a fraction of the cost...

I'm glad we agree to keep the OP's wishes in mind!

 

[sledge]

I just found couple pics in google with diamonds with strong blue fluorescence and my question is- is it normal when they look like those ones in the sunlight? Or they look like this only when fluorescent affect diamond performance and they look milky? Because my other stone with stein blue fluorescence doesn’t look like this... but I’m wondering... if it’s okay reaction to sunlight?

Not all stones with strong blue fluor will look milky. It depends on the cut quality. As already noted, one of the super ideal vendors BGD has a Blue series that focuses on PROPERLY cutting and marketing stones using medium to strong fluor, and they are gorgeous.

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/brian-gavins-blue-diamonds-with-fluorescence/

 

[sledge]

The super ideal vendor stones come with a premium BECAUSE they include their upgrade policies, all of the images and videos (which obviously require time and time costs money), and the service and ability to pull stones from in house inventory - and some people always want this and are willing to pay the extra and that's great! BN and other drop shippers can sell stones at a lesser price point because they do not have those bells and whistles and it's up to us to help the OP filter through to help them get what they want. Different strokes for different folks. It's like going to a very high end restaurant where there's always someone standing by to pull out your chair if you get up, fold your napkin, refresh your water after every sip...you're obviously paying big bucks for the food AND service...and then bashing another restaurant where you don't get that same level of service, albeit still very good service, but you're paying a fraction of the cost...

I'm glad we agree to keep the OP's wishes in mind!

Come on @ac117, I haven't once suggested they go to a super ideal vendor.

I'm not expecting full blow images, a trade up program, etc. Doing something like calling the supplier and asking them to inspect the damn diamond outside isn't exactly earth shattering. Expecting them to let you return the stone within 30 days to trade out for a similar (but maybe not identical dollars) isn't unreasonable. Especially when their written policy does NOT include this restriction. Not to mention, other drop shippers do provide limited images.

https://www.bluenile.com/policies/returns#retPolicy

Our Return Policy

We accept returns for refund or exchange within 30 days of shipment from our facility. We will send you a fully insured, free shipping label via email within one business day of your return request. Note: Two complimentary returns are allowed per customer, per year. A Return Merchandise Authorization (RMA) number is required for all returns. You may request an RMA by following the steps outlined below.

Please note that to be eligible for return, items must be in their original purchase condition, including all product documentation, and shipped back to us within 30 days. Our diamond buyback program with Mondiamo is an option if you are outside of our return window.

To expedite an exchange for a different product, we recommend returning the original item for a refund and placing a new order. Please allow two weeks for your refund to be processed.

If a package or item delivered to you arrives damaged, please refuse the shipment or call us immediately at 1-800-242-2728. Please retain all packing materials unless instructed otherwise by Blue Nile. Claims for damaged or missing items must be reported immediately or within five days of receipt of your order. Blue Nile is not responsible for lost or damaged returned shipments.

 

[ac117]

Come on @ac117, I haven't once suggested they go to a super ideal vendor.

I'm not expecting full blow images, a trade up program, etc. Doing something like calling the supplier and asking them to inspect the damn diamond outside isn't exactly earth shattering. Expecting them to let you return the stone within 30 days to trade out for a similar (but maybe not identical dollars) isn't unreasonable. Especially when their written policy does NOT include this restriction. Not to mention, other drop shippers do provide limited images.

https://www.bluenile.com/policies/returns#retPolicy

I didn't say you did but I'm pointing out the differences between them in relation to expectations bc you seemed really annoyed with BN in your post talking about things being stupid and BS and yada yada. I don't think you understand that BN makes the request to the wholesaler, and by doing that they are providing that level of service that you would expect, but it's the wholesaler who doesn't always oblige. That's not BN's fault. We see the same happen on JA where some of their wholesalers do have light return setups and will provide images, and others who do not. However, JA does go the extra step of offering to provide the image after the stone has been purchased and arrives in NY. And that's great, but OP has to work with BN if she wants to use their upgrade program.

I agree with you on the return issue which is why I also quoted their return policy in one of my earlier posts and advised OP to escalate the issue to a manager if they give her a hard time.

 

[SimoneDi]

I just found couple pics in google with diamonds with strong blue fluorescence and my question is- is it normal when they look like those ones in the sunlight? Or they look like this only when fluorescent affect diamond performance and they look milky? Because my other stone with stein blue fluorescence doesn’t look like this... but I’m wondering... if it’s okay reaction to sunlight?

When diamonds fluoresce, it is normal that the diamond’s molecules will get “excited” when exposed to UV light, which includes sunlight. To what degree and how tolerable to you, that should be examined on individual case basis. The milkiness is a negative effect, however, the “lavender” hue that some diamonds produce is pretty normal and can even look beautiful in my view. That is just a standard effect of strong/very strong fluorescence, not a discussion between branded and non-branded stones. If you had a diamond with strong blue fluorescence and liked it, I wouldn’t caution now against a new stone that has fluorescence. Go for the 1.7, it is a beautiful stone!

 

[Elmira19]

I got images for 2 diamonds today from BN, what do you think?

 

[ac117]

I got images for 2 diamonds today from BN, what do you think?

They're not taken correctly and very tilted so pretty useless but you can see it has well defined arrows. Which stone is this?

 

[sledge]

They're not taken correctly and very tilted so pretty useless but you can see it has well defined arrows. Which stone is this?

Is this the reason the pink/purple image has oddities going on with the arrows at the 12 and 3 o'clock positions?

Also there appears to leakage at the 5 and 6 o'clock positions. At least I don't think that's from tilting.

 

[Elmira19]

They're not taken correctly and very tilted so pretty useless but you can see it has well defined arrows. Which stone is this?

that’s two different stones 1,5 and 1,52 you helped me with... that’s the only images I got.. but I’m waiting for information about their color..

 

[ac117]

Is this the reason the pink/purple image has oddities going on with the arrows at the 12 and 3 o'clock positions?

Also there appears to leakage at the 5 and 6 o'clock positions. At least I don't think that's from tilting.

I don't even know what the pink/purple image is bc I really don't think it's an attempt at an ideal scope? both have oddities going on like the paddles behind the arrows in the second image however, I don't think you could make a definitive statement about leakage/their performance when the stones are clearly resting to one side.

 

[sledge]

I don't even know what the pink/purple image is bc I really don't think it's an attempt at an ideal scope? both have oddities going on like the paddles behind the arrows in the second image however, I don't think you could make a definitive statement about leakage/their performance when the stones are clearly resting to one side.

I was trying to play nice and be objective, and say it was an IS image from overseas where things are different. Internally I was like, "what the hell is this?".

On a positive note, BN is getting the OP some images.

Edited to Add:
Also, there is another thread where BN is promising ASET and IS images and has asked their supplier all sorts of questions on that OP's behalf. I about fell out of my chair.

 

[ac117]

I was trying to play nice and be objective, and say it was an IS image from overseas where things are different. Internally I was like, "what the hell is this?".

This is a clear moment

On a positive note, BN is getting the OP some images.

Also, there is another thread where BN is promising ASET and IS images and has asked their supplier all sorts of questions on that OP's behalf. I about fell out of my chair.

This is definitely a move in the right direction with the ASET/IS images if their suppliers would start providing them but we have always seen them ask their suppliers questions and report back to the customer or have notes on file about the stone.

 

[rockysalamander]

Travelling. But, has anyone checked other retailer for pics?

 

[sledge]

Travelling. But, has anyone checked other retailer for pics?

I haven't yet, but will try to do so a little later.

 

[Lykame]

Travelling. But, has anyone checked other retailer for pics?

Pretty sure I just found it on a Japanese website selling for about one and a half million yen.

There was only one picture. I clicked on random things, being as I don't read Japanese, and couldn't find anything other than that random picture.

@Elmira19, only you can decide what's right for you, but personally I would take the risk on the 1.75. It's a G. It is an amazing looking SI1. The likelihood of the fluorescence being an issue is very low. Worst case scenario is you have to return it and the Bluenile return policy does not seem to suggest you then have to get another diamond worth more.

My only caution would be that if in the future you want to upgrade, and you don't want to use Bluenile because you have to spend double, it will potentially be a pain in the butt to sell. That is potentially true of any stone with fluorescence, for reasons that are baffling to me.

 

[sledge]

My only caution would be that if in the future you want to upgrade, and you don't want to use Bluenile because you have to spend double, it will potentially be a pain in the butt to sell. That is potentially true of any stone with fluorescence, for reasons that are baffling to me.

There is a valid point here. Does the stone with strong fluor still qualify for BN's upgrade program? I would hate to have the OP buy the stone and want to upgrade at some time later and not be able to because they won't accept strong fluor stones on trade.

And I suspect the reason people don't want stones with strong fluor is because 10% of the bad ones give 90% of the good ones a bad reputation. Combine this a few deceitful retailers and an overwhelming majority of a improperly educated diamond buying population and you have people scared to buy a stone with any fluor.

 

[Elmira19]

I decided that I don’t want to have diamond with fluorescent, only faint maybe. Does anyone knows anything about Astor ideal collection at blue nile? Is it really nicer than ideal cut diamonds?

 

[sledge]

I decided that I don’t want to have diamond with fluorescent, only faint maybe. Does anyone knows anything about Astor ideal collection at blue nile? Is it really nicer than ideal cut diamonds?

Nothing BN will be nicer than a super ideal from WF, BGD, etc. They are called super ideals because they are not only cut for great angles, but excellent symmetry that qualifies them as true hearts & arrows diamonds. Additionally they have been graded by AGS to confirm their cut grade, and come with full images and reports to verify their performance.

In short, it works this way....

• Good = GIA XXX
• Better = AGS 0
• Best = AGS 000, aka "super ideals"

The stones at BN are all GIA XXX. What makes the Astor ideal collection unique is it has a GemEx report, which is suppose to verify brilliance, fire and sparkle. Looking at a few stones in the Astor collection I do think they have good angles, etc but most people don't really put much weight into the GemEx reports.

That said, here is a Astor ideal. 1.52 H SI1. No fluor. Great angles and potential. I'd ask for idealscope and ASET images, knowing you probably won't get them -- but it's still worth the ask. Also, verify it's eye clean. The concerning part is clouds is the grade setting inclusion which can be a problem, but isn't always.

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD09800966

AGS proportions chart showing potential cut grade of this stone:

 

[Elmira19]

Nothing BN will be nicer than a super ideal from WF, BGD, etc. They are called super ideals because they are not only cut for great angles, but excellent symmetry that qualifies them as true hearts & arrows diamonds. Additionally they have been graded by AGS to confirm their cut grade, and come with full images and reports to verify their performance.

In short, it works this way....

• Good = GIA XXX
• Better = AGS 0
• Best = AGS 000, aka "super ideals"

The stones at BN are all GIA XXX. What makes the Astor ideal collection unique is it has a GemEx report, which is suppose to verify brilliance, fire and sparkle. Looking at a few stones in the Astor collection I do think they have good angles, etc but most people don't really put much weight into the GemEx reports.

That said, here is a Astor ideal. 1.52 H SI1. No fluor. Great angles and potential. I'd ask for idealscope and ASET images, knowing you probably won't get them -- but it's still worth the ask. Also, verify it's eye clean. The concerning part is clouds is the grade setting inclusion which can be a problem, but isn't always.

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD09800966

AGS proportions chart showing potential cut grade of this stone:

I was looking at the same diamond too, I wonder if it’s dust on it or clouds, doesn’t look clean for some reason...

 

[sledge]

I was looking at the same diamond too, I wonder if it’s dust on it or clouds, doesn’t look clean for some reason...

Well, in fairness, the video from BN is magnified. Not seeing imperfections in a magnified view would be more abnormal. That said, I am still concerned as it appears clouds are listed first and that means its grade setting and I don't like not having a plot chart.

In an attempt to find a plot chart I googled for the cert number. I couldn't find anything more, but on the GIA site I noticed a date of 10/25/17. Seems odd to me this stone has been sitting 9 months. Either people don't want to buy it, or else maybe it was bought and someone returned or traded up. Just the dates looked odd to me --- doesn't necessarily mean anything is wrong. I am just looking for any potential tell tale signs.

 

[Elmira19]

Well, in fairness, the video from BN is magnified. Not seeing imperfections in a magnified view would be more abnormal. That said, I am still concerned as it appears clouds are listed first and that means its grade setting and I don't like not having a plot chart.

In an attempt to find a plot chart I googled for the cert number. I couldn't find anything more, but on the GIA site I noticed a date of 10/25/17. Seems odd to me this stone has been sitting 9 months. Either people don't want to buy it, or else maybe it was bought and someone returned or traded up. Just the dates looked odd to me --- doesn't necessarily mean anything is wrong. I am just looking for any potential tell tale signs.

I noticed 95% of their Astor ideal diamonds have Gia report from 2017 I also wonder why

 

[sledge]

I noticed 95% of their Astor ideal diamonds have Gia report from 2017 I also wonder why

Oh, I didn't notice that but I didn't look just at Astor's.

Could be that most people shopping at BN are value shoppers and they probably market the Astor's at a higher price so they naturally move slower as most people don't truly understand angles, etc and how it affects cut. So they buy a less well cut stone that is bigger and whiter and for less money than an Astor that is supposed to be more well cut but consequently will be smaller and/or less white for the same amount of money.

Diamonds are truly a zero sum game meaning, if you have a set budget then you will have to adjust the cut, clarity, color and carat size to work within that budget. If cut is most important, then the other C's will go down to accommodate. If carat size is most important, same thing happens -- the remaining C's go down to boost size.

 

[yssie]

My assumption is that your first diamond looked “dark” to you because the shallow crown/pav combo was causing over-obstruction at short viewing distances:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/obstruction.129821/page-2

BN is a fantastic company in terms of value for money, if you value what they prioritise. I’m thoroughly charmed that they tried to get you IS photos (whatever the state of said photos ) this is truly going above and beyond!! Keep in mind - you are not paying extra for those efforts toward extra service the way you are at PS boutique vendors.

Ditto @sledge on why BN Astor selections likely move slower - IMO likely just the group behaviours of their majority audience!

Curious about the choice of GIA dossier rather than report for that Astor... for $11 less looks like? Ditto @sledge here as well, get trusted eyes on that specimen before having it set.

 

[Lykame]

In view of your wishing for no fluorescence, I have looked for:

Around 1.5, G-H colour, VS2 quality diamonds to try and get rid of your concern about eye clean/clouds etc.

Potential options:

$11,387, 1.50, H, VS2, no fluorescence.

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

$11, 458, 1.51, H, VS2, faint fluorescence - I think the one above is better than this one both from an angle point of view and cost point of view.

https://bnsec.bluenile.com/bnsecure/certs/LD10649398/GIA?country=USA&language=en-us

I have had a quick hunt for G coloured diamonds. This is more difficult - to get in your budget you would need SI1 really and a lot of the G SI1s are quite mucky and don't look like they would be eye clean.

Will keep looking but I do like that first one and if it's as well cut as it should be, it should face up really nice a white for you!

 

[Elmira19]

In view of your wishing for no fluorescence, I have looked for:

Around 1.5, G-H colour, VS2 quality diamonds to try and get rid of your concern about eye clean/clouds etc.

Potential options:

$11,387, 1.50, H, VS2, no fluorescence.

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

$11, 458, 1.51, H, VS2, faint fluorescence - I think the one above is better than this one both from an angle point of view and cost point of view.

https://bnsec.bluenile.com/bnsecure/certs/LD10649398/GIA?country=USA&language=en-us

I have had a quick hunt for G coloured diamonds. This is more difficult - to get in your budget you would need SI1 really and a lot of the G SI1s are quite mucky and don't look like they would be eye clean.

Will keep looking but I do like that first one and if it's as well cut as it should be, it should face up really nice a white for you!

thank you so much!!! Well if I can get a really nice diamond with G and Vs2 then I can go up to 12.5-13k but that’s my max

 

[ac117]

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab