Cushion Cut Sarin Images Please Help!

[unobtanium]

I know that the image is small but the limitatiosn on file size are an issue here. My local jewler was great enough to run a Sarin imiage of the stone I am interested in. Please let me know your thoughts on the cut quality of this stone.

Specifically in the image in this post I am interested as to why where the arrow is pointing to the Sarin Image shows a line across the small facit. Why is that there?

Also, just above the arrow where the circle is there seems to be a missing cut. What does this mean?

The specs of the stone on the GIA Cert are:
1.60 ct
G SI1
Polish EX
Symm VG
Floro: None

Table 64%
Depth 68.3%

 

[unobtanium]

These are the measurments from the Sarin Report

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

The arrow is pointing out a poor quality scan issue. It is not part of the Sarin system - it was added by a person later.

If the retailer has the capacity to make a .srn file, you can post it here and we can really help you.
Otherwise the info is rather useless for a cushion as there are too many facets that have no inf on the report.

 

[unobtanium]

This image is from the GIA cert of the stone above..... I have never seen this cut type anywhere on pricescope. I was told it is a modified brilliant, but I am confused as to why the GIA cert image in this post is different than anything I have ever seen. I was told by the jewler that this was a "special cut."

I have to say though this stone had by far the best optics out of 7 cushion cuts that I looked at during the day.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 12/14/2009 6:48:31 PM
Author:unobtanium

I know that the image is small but the limitatiosn on file size are an issue here. My local jewler was great enough to run a Sarin imiage of the stone I am interested in. Please let me know your thoughts on the cut quality of this stone.

Specifically in the image in this post I am interested as to why where the arrow is pointing to the Sarin Image shows a line across the small facit. Why is that there?

Also, just above the arrow where the circle is there seems to be a missing cut. What does this mean?

The specs of the stone on the GIA Cert are:
1.60 ct
G SI1
Polish EX
Symm VG
Floro: None



Table 64%
Depth 68.3%

You can't judge cushions by the numbers, I would suggest getting an ASET if you are particularly interested in the stone.

 

[unobtanium]

Date: 12/14/2009 6:54:51 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
The arrow is pointing out a poor quality scan issue. It is not part of the Sarin system - it was added by a person later.

If the retailer has the capacity to make a .srn file, you can post it here and we can really help you.
Otherwise the info is rather useless for a cushion as there are too many facets that have no inf on the report.

Thanks for the reply. I added the arrow myself since I wanted to point out what I was refering to, the line that the arrow is pointing to.

 

[unobtanium]

Here is the pavilion view. I tried to make the image as viewable as possible. Sorry for the poor image quality. And as always THANKS FOR THE HELP

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

The scan data is a waste of your time.
Get an ASET photo, get your own ASET, send it to an appraiser, but really there is no use - you can even see how different the GIA and the sarin report images are.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

The only thing I can tell is it has a decent sized crown 14.2%. But that is not enough to judge optics.. You are going to need optical tests and a video or photographs.

 

[unobtanium]

Date: 12/14/2009 7:10:30 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
The scan data is a waste of your time.
Get an ASET photo, get your own ASET, send it to an appraiser, but really there is no use - you can even see how different the GIA and the sarin report images are.

But really there is no use getting ASET images of the stones? Please elaborate. Is there a distinct difference between the reference diagram and the Sarin image?



I looked at the stone through an Idealscope, I know they are not supposed to be used for fancies, but it still had very good optics in my opinion. No dead spots (darkness), and no large areas of white.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

sorry - typing too fast.
Ideal-scope is a great start and screens most dud''s
ASET is better because some stones will be mostly green and not have much life.
If you can get the .srn and post it then you will not need an ASET

 

[unobtanium]

What is the .sm file for? What data does it provide?

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 12/14/2009 7:24:27 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
sorry - typing too fast.
Ideal-scope is a great start and screens most dud''s
ASET is better because some stones will be mostly green and not have much life.
If you can get the .srn and post it then you will not need an ASET

Why Garry because you will plug the .srn into Diamcalc and generate the diamond''s ASET image for them? Still may not be very accurate.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 12/14/2009 7:40:49 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 12/14/2009 7:24:27 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
sorry - typing too fast.
Ideal-scope is a great start and screens most dud''s
ASET is better because some stones will be mostly green and not have much life.
If you can get the .srn and post it then you will not need an ASET

Why Garry because you will plug the .srn into Diamcalc and generate the diamond''s ASET image for them? Still may not be very accurate.

Yes.
Nat as accurate as a good photo, but I also have other tools in DiamCalc.
I can also properly check the bad scan effects and make allowances

 

[unobtanium]

Garry,
Sorry for not understanding this. I am an intermediate at this, and I feel like this is more of highly advanced level. Just so I understand:

Will the Sarin machine produce the .srn ?

What exactly will be provided with the .srn so that you can generate the ASET image.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

If you can get it I will show you.
If not it will not matter.

Sorry, I am very busy and cant answer all ?''s

 

[unobtanium]

I am sure that my jewler is very busy as well. For me to request such a file requires me to understand what the function of it is. I can not ask a reputable jewler for something that I have no idea what the function is because another jewler on a blog told me to do it. I am not trying to be combative, please dont take it that way. I will spend some time at home tonight searching the forums to educate myself on the .srn, as ultimatley it is my responsibility to understand it.

As soon as I get the .srn I would be very appreciative of you to run your program and do what you do best!

Thanks.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 12/14/2009 7:50:18 PM
Author: unobtanium
Garry,
Sorry for not understanding this. I am an intermediate at this, and I feel like this is more of highly advanced level. Just so I understand:

Will the Sarin machine produce the .srn ?

What exactly will be provided with the .srn so that you can generate the ASET image.

Yes the output of a sarin scan can be a .srn file..
That is all that is needed as it has the important angles and lengths of the diamond, at least within some tolerances it will allow Garry to generate an ASET if you can't get one taken.

Either way the vendor should be able to provide you with the .srn or get the ASET image taken for you.

 

[Lorelei]

Have you looked at many cushions unobtainium?

 

[purrfectpear]

Date: 12/14/2009 8:01:57 PM
Author: unobtanium
I am sure that my jewler is very busy as well. For me to request such a file requires me to understand what the function of it is. I can not ask a reputable jewler for something that I have no idea what the function is because another jewler on a blog told me to do it. I am not trying to be combative, please dont take it that way. I will spend some time at home tonight searching the forums to educate myself on the .srn, as ultimatley it is my responsibility to understand it.

As soon as I get the .srn I would be very appreciative of you to run your program and do what you do best!

Thanks.

You''re kidding right? I don''t know about you, but IMO it''s MY money and the jeweler is working for ME. I wouldn''t have any problem at all asking for (and expecting) additional reports, files, scans or whatever. I wouldn''t need to "justify" my request. The jeweler can say yes they will provide it, or decline, but I''m sure as heck not going to act like I have to earn the right to make requests

 

[unobtanium]

At this point I have seen around 25 different cushions in the range from 1.25 to 3.0ct. Some were complete dogs and others were really nice stones. The one with the sarin image is one of my finalists and is at the extreme high end of my price range.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 12/15/2009 12:08:05 PM
Author: unobtanium
At this point I have seen around 25 different cushions in the range from 1.25 to 3.0ct. Some were complete dogs and others were really nice stones. The one with the sarin image is one of my finalists and is at the extreme high end of my price range.

I don''t know who your vendor is or what they are doing but everything about this thread seems quite backwards to me. Here is a guide I put together about choosing a cushion I hope it helps you in your search.
If I were in your shoes:

#1) I would choose what type of cushion cut I liked
#2) I would determine a max budget and 4 Cs
#3) I would contact vendors known to specialize in cushions cut for light performance or post your specs here and we can help you find good matches.

You really should fight the urge to try to reinvent the wheel or come up with some convoluted system for judging cushions by the numbers. All of us scientists or engineers have been in this position and If you take my advice it will save you a few months and futile attempts. Any stone you buy online can usually be viewed in person sent on memo to an appraisor first if you are working with the PS vendors below. This allows you the best of both worlds the best selection variety, pricing and you still get to view the stones in person.

-------------------------------------------------
hunkyCushionLover''s Guide To Buying Cushion Cut Diamonds

Step 1 (Choose The Type of Cut)

Decide the look of cushion you like best. (Watching the videos should help you the most with this.)

i) Cushion Modified Brilliant (often referred to negatively as the "crushed ice" variety as many in this category have only small flashes and were cut to save weght not to optimize light return),
a) 4 Pavillion main facets (several varieties)
b) 8 mains (several varieties) http://www.vimeo.com/3164922 Pictures and commentary here https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/the-shocking-final-diamond-choice-i-gave-to-my-fiance-which-one-would-you-pick.121154/
c) Square Brilliant (rare seen more in Belgium)
ii) Cushion Brilliant
a) 4 main like this one http://www.octonus.com/oct/projects/foxymovies/round_cushion2_office_fr.phtml or http://www.vimeo.com/2120607 (4 main is on the far left)
b) 8 main modern http://www.vimeo.com/2120607 (stone on the left)
c) 8 main old mine cushion http://www.vimeo.com/5310842
d) BGD modern 8 main cushion (the mains intersect at the corners) https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/bgd-cushion-let-me-know-what-you-think.128493/

iii) Square Cushion Hearts and Arrows http://video.jogiadiamonds.com.au/images/analysis/CXF7266-2.mov http://video.jogiadiamonds.com.au/images/analysis/CXF7266.mov

iv) Cushette http://www.vimeo.com/3164922

A helpful thread to see the plots and pictures of different types of cushions can be seen here https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-cushion-by-any-other-name.36001/ (keep in mind pictures aren''t as useful as videos and can only be used reliably to understand facet structure not light performance)

If you want to learn about cushions a great video by Jon at GOG can be watched here http://www.vimeo.com/7579666 and bonus footage here http://www.vimeo.com/7611843.

Step 2 (Choose the 4Cs)

1) Post your budget, Color, Clarity, Carat Weight, LW(length to width) Ratio (do you like perfectly Square or Rectangular?) and cut preference. We will help find stones in your price range or tell you if your budget is realistic for the specs you have chosen or if you will have to make some tradeoffs. If you would rather go directly to the vendor at this point I suggest you speak to:

i) Mark at Engagementringsdirect.com
ii) Jon at Goodoldgold.com
iii) Bob at Whiteflash.com
iv) Brian at Briangavindiamonds.com

This list is limited to what I beleive are vendors who specialize in cushion cuts designed for light performance there may be others but I haven''t had experiences with them. Some vendors like GOG and BGD have even developed their own cushion signature cut diamonds lines not available for sale by any other vendor. All of these vendors will be able to provide ASET images and pictures of stones to help you decide prior to purchase.

Example:

Budget: $10,000
Color: H and above
Clarity: SI1 and above (Anything Eyeclean from 6 feet away looking faceup)
Carat Weight: 1.3Ct+
Lw Ratio = 1 - 1.05 (I want square) or 1.1 - 1.3 (I want rectangular)
Cushion Brilliant (Modern) either 4 main or 8 main

Than we can help you narrow things down considerably.

Step 3 (View and Post ASET Image and Photographs and/or see in person)

Ask the vendor for a Video and/or ASET image (http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_ASET_scope.asp) of your possible choices and we can help you narrow down which of your selections we prefer and why.

Step 4 (View a side by side comparison at a vendor or appraisor for final selection)

If you are still not sure I would send your two or three favourite stones to a PS listed appraisor https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx close to you, where you can view your final choices in person prior to purchase you will just have to pay shipping. Many PS vendors will send stones to a trusted appraisor without you having to pay first and the appraisor will only release the stone to you only upon payment to and consent of the vendor.
For such an expensive purchase $100 in shipping and $100 in appraisor time seems well worth it to make the most informed choice possible.

Happy Hunting,

CCL

 

[unobtanium]

Not sure if I am working backwards, I think I am just trying to double check on the stones the vendors I am working with have found me. I am working with three different B&M stores in Orange County and Los Angles CA. The three B&M jewlers are all rated in the top 5 jewlers of southern california. Futhermore, I am working with the "Cushion God" at each of these stores. I have been very specific in what I am looking for. Below is the exact specifications that I have relayed to them, am I asking to much?

Stone requisites:
Budget $9500
Cut:
Cushion Hearts and Arrows
Cushion Brilliant ( 4 main or 8 main antique or Old Mine Brilliant)
Color: I and above
(I or H with blue florescence would be good)
Clarity: I1 and above
Carat Weight: 1.5 ct +
LW Ratio: square or rectangular is ok
Certification: GIA preferred but I will purchase other cert after viewing the stone
Optics: ASET Images would be very important. The optical quality of the stone is extremely important to me. I do not want a “crushed ice” looking cushion.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 12/15/2009 12:46:49 PM
Author: unobtanium
Not sure if I am working backwards, I think I am just trying to double check on the stones the vendors I am working with have found me. I am working with three different B&M stores in Orange County and Los Angles CA. The three B&M jewlers are all rated in the top 5 jewlers of southern california. Futhermore, I am working with the 'Cushion God' at each of these stores. I have been very specific in what I am looking for. Below is the exact specifications that I have relayed to them, am I asking to much?

Stone requisites:
Budget $9500
Cut:
Cushion Hearts and Arrows
Cushion Brilliant ( 4 main or 8 main antique or Old Mine Brilliant)
Color: I and above
(I or H with blue florescence would be good)
Clarity: I1 and above
Carat Weight: 1.5 ct +
LW Ratio: square or rectangular is ok
Certification: GIA preferred but I will purchase other cert after viewing the stone
Optics: ASET Images would be very important. The optical quality of the stone is extremely important to me. I do not want a “crushed ice” looking cushion.

HI Uno,

Good specs this will help in your search. I have never heard of jewelers being rated but I wouldn't draw too much confidence from something like this you are looking for something quite specific.

Some comments:

1) There is only one online source in North America I know of for a true Square Cushion Hearts and Arrows and that is GOG. There may be others that can order them based on your specs but I'd be really careful about any other vendors claim on this look as the optics may be different and unproven, ASET and idealscope images are key. Also these are priced like ideal cut rounds and you would have to get much smaller to fit into your budget a 1.5Ct I Square Cushion HA would be out of your price range.

You could get this one http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6829/ which is within your budget but it will faceup about the same as a 1 - 1.1 Carat Cushion. The square cushion HA's faceup much smaller than other cushions due to the depth. This is by design to achieve the great optics.


2) For 8 main OMC / Antique 8 Main/ Old Mine Brilliant (They are all the same facet structure) This would be the the best performing in this class of stones you won't find any other vendor offering stones with the light performance of these.
As a test I'd get an ASET from any vendor of an Antique 8 main and you will see the difference especially under the table.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6818/ (Need to ask GOG if its eye clean)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6819/ (over your budget)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6815/ ( A little smaller than you wanted)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5647/ (Close, this would be more like what you can expect decent 8 main stones that are non august vintages to be similar to)

It may be best to ask Jon at GOG when he can get a 1.5Ct I VS2 or SI1 august vintage old mine cushion cut for you if this is the look you have decided you want as that should come in within your budget.

3) Good modern 4 mains are the most difficult to source right now as no cutting house really has optimized them yet. Progress is underway example http://www.octonus.com/oct/projects/foxymovies/round_cushion2_office_fr.phtml but really I'm not totally thrilled with anything I've seen online and even less impressed with any other vendor. In general B&M vendors don't use ASET or any tests so its going to be really tough. Some of the best examples I can find in your spec range are below

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6259/ (Check if its Eye Clean)
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/6261/

4) An 8 main modified with excellent optics see the video.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5416/ (One of the best Modified Cushion Brilliant 8 mains I have ever seen, Not Crushed Ice a Rare One).


5) I'd check with Mark at ERD as well to see what he can find in your spec range if you want Antique 8 Main cushion Brillaints.

6) If you were to narrow it down to only 8 main Antique Cushion Brilliants here is a safe range to be used to reject stones outside these parameters. This can't be used for selection but I'd safely reject stones outside of these ranges if you don't want to be calling in a ton of stones. Just to cover my rear I will say that there are nice Old Mine Cushions that may fall outside of these ranges but you aren't looking for all possible stones just one that is most likely to work, calling in stones by the numbers is time consuming and expensive so I don't mind just covering a majority of the best ones with these three rules.

1) Table 50 - 59% (Prefer 52 - 57)
2) Depth 63 - 69% (Prefer 65 - 6
3) Also I'd tend to stick with more square stones LW - 1 - 1.15 (Prefer 1 - 1.0 as they tend to have better symmetry and overall optics.

Regardless of which vendor you choose to go with ASET, video and/or viewing in person is a must. If you are viewing in person make sure you take the diamond in sunlight, under a table, away from the strong office or jewelry store lights. There are many cushions that look great in direct spot lighting and

in all other lighting environments. These cushions tend to have excessive green and less red in the ASET and the fact they perform poorly in most lighting will not be readily apparent if you just look under jewelry store lights.

Good-luck,
CCL