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Choosing round diamond for halo ring from James Allen

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emac11

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2016
Messages
37
Hi all,

I'm looking for a diamond for a halo ring to replace one my wife lost. We loved the ring she lost and the diamond looked great in it, but we figured if we're ever going to upgrade the diamond, this would be a good opportunity. Here is the diamond that we're replacing:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-2208003

The last diamond was a .83 diamond, and I'd like to get somewhere around 1 carat this time. It'll go on a halo ring, so I don't mind going for an "I" color since (from my limited understanding) the color is most often noticed from the side. We had the True Hearts cut, and I would love to get that again since it looked so beautiful, though I would settle for "Excellent" if everything else was great. It was also a VS1, but as long as there aren't major noticeable inclusions, I am not too concerned if it is a VS2.

What do you all think of this diamond? It's florescence is strong, how much should that bother me? Are there noticeable inclusions in it I don't see? I'm not great at spotting them unless they're really obvious.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-4967217

Do you have any other suggestions? Please stick to just James Allen. Thanks so much for your help, I love this forum!
 
SimoneDi said:
OP, the diamond you are looking at is very pretty. If your wife is not very color sensitive, then you might even be able to drop down to J color and get something even larger, like this diamond: https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5262805

Or this one: https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-si1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-4230906
Click to expand...

I worry about the inclusions I can see on the second one. I think if I can see them, there must be something wrong. I'm also concerned about the strong florescence on the one I posted before, though I'm not sure how much I should let that affect my decision.

What are your thoughts on this diamond?

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-4042889

Or this one?

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...olor-vvs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5361571
 
emac11 said:
I worry about the inclusions I can see on the second one. I think if I can see them, there must be something wrong. I'm also concerned about the strong florescence on the one I posted before, though I'm not sure how much I should let that affect my decision.

What are your thoughts on this diamond?

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-4042889

Or this one?

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...olor-vvs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5361571
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I prefer your first pick and I would not be terribly worried about strong flouro. I find transparency issues rather easy to detect in the high magnified videos, but you can also ask for JAs feedback.
 
SimoneDi said:
I prefer your first pick and I would not be terribly worried about strong flouro. I find transparency issues rather easy to detect in the high magnified videos, but you can also ask for JAs feedback.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your help!

Can I ask why you prefer the first pick over the two others? Just trying to learn what the advantages and disadvantages are of each one. :)

Anyone else have thoughts or suggestions?
 
emac11 said:
Thanks for your help!

Can I ask why you prefer the first pick over the two others? Just trying to learn what the advantages and disadvantages are of each one. :)

Anyone else have thoughts or suggestions?
Click to expand...

I like the higher crown and the fatter arrows of the first stone. I also don’t like overpaying for clarity and anything above VS2 will look identical to me. I also like that it costs less.
 
I don't have time to search, but will comment on what's been posted:

Like the angles combo (my personal preference is 34.5/40.7-40.8, but this 35/40.6 works well too) and also like the fat arrows. It appears nice & white. Doubtful the strong fluor will be an issue -- still a good idea to ask JA to pull from their vault & examine and confirm there is no hazy/milky characteristics. Assuming there isn't, then the fluor actually helps the stone look more white in certain lighting conditions.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-4967217

Depending how you feel about fat arrows, this might be #1 pick. Great angles, 34.7/40.8. LGF is 77 so arrows aren't quite as fat but is actually the "optimum" value for a H&A stone (http://www.heartsandarrows.com/hearts-arrows-diamond-ideal-cut-dna.aspx). I'd have JA pull from the vault and verify the crystal isn't an issue since it's on the table. Otherwise, super clean. Bonus points for AGS000 cert!

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-4042889

Really like this one too. Good color. Angles work well. Arrows not quite as fat (77 LGF vs 75 LGF of above stone). No fluor concerns for you (although I don't think it's an issue either way). I've come to like smaller tables, but this is about the size of table my own girl has on her BGD super ideal. Don't like paying for VVS2 clarity but I prefer it. Bonus points for the AGS000 certification.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...olor-vvs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5361571

Love the angle combo (34.5/40.8) and small 54.6 table. Oh yeah AND fat arrows! She will be full of fire! Bonus points for AGS000 cert and JA True H&A designation. :love: Not to mention 0.20mm bigger -- not massive but you can tell a small difference.

I see two downsides, clarity & color. I'm not scared of SI1 clarity and agree with @SimoneDi that paying for what you can't see is kind of a waste (although I also suffer a little from "mind clean") so while I am open minded I am always hoping to find a stone that is very clean for it's clarity grade. What concerns me with this stone is that CLOUDS is the setting grade mark, and there is a note that says "additional clouds not shown". This is typically a red flag, and requires a JA gemologist to pull the stone and confirm it's eye clean and not hazy or cloudy looking.

Next is color. People start getting pretty heated in the H/I/J range. If you like warmth and tint, cool. If you aren't color sensitive, cool. I'm not saying it's good or bad, as it's PREFERENCE thing. You and the Mrs needs to understand where you fall with this. Also, some people believe in the lower color ranges there is more subjectivity in grading so you may end up with a high I (near H) or low I (near J). Additionally some believe that AGS color grading can be "soft" in comparison to GIA grading in lower color ranges. As much as I love this one, you need to make sure you and Mrs are on board with the color.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-si1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-4230906

This next stone, my color comments would still apply although TO ME this one looks a smidge more white than the other J. Good spread similar to the other J. Angles look promising and fat arrows to boot! Table is 56, which I like as well. Clarity is VVS2 so just awesome. Good bang for the buck if you can live with the color.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5262805
 
emac11 said:
Thanks for your help.

Another question, are GIA and AGS certificates equal, or should I value one over the other?
Click to expand...

AGS uses complex 3D modeling on each stone and is able to kick out a computer generated ASET as such. Also, with this technology AGS can assign a cut grade.

GIA uses older 2D modeling and uses some funky rounding & averaging to report values on their certs. Thus far, they are unable to assign a cut grade.

For that reason, most consider AGS to be more strict (and preferred) in regards to light performance of a stone.


AGS Compared To GIA – Conclusions
Click to expand...
Both labs are highly respected. Both labs perform consistent and dependable grading. For customers interested in obtaining in-depth information related to the cut quality and light performance of their diamond, the AGSL report provides a far better analysis.
Click to expand...

https://www.whiteflash.com/ags-vs-gia/
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/news/ags-ideal-vs-gia-excellent-cut-diamonds/
 
emac11 said:
Thanks for your help.

Another question, are GIA and AGS certificates equal, or should I value one over the other?

Also, thoughts on this diamond?

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs2-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-2871991
Click to expand...

GIA and AGS are not completely equal. AGS has their performance grading system which would guarantee you a great performing stone. It is rumored that AGS is softer on color grading, although there hasn’t been definitive proof of that and overall diamonds are still graded by people and therefore one person might give a borderline colored diamond a higher or lower color grade vs another grader. GIA on the other hand is still the leader in the industry and a better recognized lab worldwide.

I am not a huge fan of the last diamond, I see some internal graining. It’s still a nice stone, but there are other options. I know that you are steering clear from SI graded stones, but I really like this one. The inclusions are to the side and I am about 99.99% sure that it will be eye-clean. https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...rat-i-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-5331149
 
emac11 said:
Wow, that's a big one for the price! You don't think I should worry about the color J?
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Since your wife had an I color before, I really wouldn’t worry about the J. I think the size will dominate here over any minute color differences that there might be between the I and the J. Also, you are placing the stone in a halo and the profile of the stone will be hidden. I really like the cut of the stone and overall appearance and facet play. Very lively diamond!

Edit: one more very similar: https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5361560
 
SimoneDi said:
Since your wife had an I color before, I really wouldn’t worry about the J. I think the size will dominate here over any minute color differences that there might be between the I and the J. Also, you are placing the stone in a halo and the profile of the stone will be hidden. I really like the cut of the stone and overall appearance and facet play. Very lively diamond!

Edit: one more very similar: https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-5361560
Click to expand...

Ooooh, I like that one even more. I don't notice any inclusions on it. The concern for me is again it is a "Strong Blue" florescence, but nobody here seems to worry about that too much.

I talked to the "diamond expert" on JA about this diamond and they said for "near colorless" diamonds the blue florescence will make it appear whiter in sunlight or direct light.
 
emac11 said:
Ooooh, I like that one even more. I don't notice any inclusions on it. The concern for me is again it is a "Strong Blue" florescence, but nobody here seems to worry about that too much.

I talked to the "diamond expert" on JA about this diamond and they said for "near colorless" diamonds the blue florescence will make it appear whiter in sunlight or direct light.
Click to expand...

Right, the diamond’s molecules get “excited” when exposed to UV light. Stones with blue flouro do take on a slightly lavender-ish hue when exposed to UV light. Some people love it, others not so much and third don’t even notice it. I still think that it is a beautiful choice. As someone who has had multiple diamonds with flouro, I wouldn’t take fluorescence as a concern, but you need to decide for yourself. Perhaps, see what your wife thinks? I am sure that some might jump in and share pics and opinions on diamonds appearing “hazy” and fear of that happening if the diamond is not “verified”. I don’t believe that this particular diamond has any transparency issues to be worried about.
 
SimoneDi said:
Perhaps, see what your wife thinks?
Click to expand...

My wife knows nothing about diamonds and whenever I ask her a question she just says "I don't know, you decide!" She just wants it to be shiny and round. She didn't make it easy for me to pick out her initial engagement ring, but loved what I got her, so now she is trusting me to do it again. :lol:
 
Another thing, the diamond will be set in a platinum setting. Will the platinum make the J look too yellow'ish? I already had an I diamond in a platinum setting without ever once thinking it looked too yellow.
 
emac11 said:
Another thing, the diamond will be set in a platinum setting. Will the platinum make the J look too yellow'ish? I already had an I diamond in a platinum setting without ever once thinking it looked too yellow.
Click to expand...

The difference between I and J is not that significant. If you considered that I looked white, then J will most likely appear very white as well. Since your wife doesn’t know much about diamonds, then probably the thing that she will notice most is the size.
 
I agree it's only 1 color grade and most people can't see the difference. My concern is the same as before....when you get in the I/J color range you can have high & low colors. So if your previous stone was a high I (near H) and you get a low J (near K) you might see more difference.

Also, as previously noted there is some that believe AGS color grading is a little softer than GIA. Assuming that is true, you are now jumping a color grade plus whatever grading difference there might be between an AGS J and GIA J.

Easiest way I know to combat this is have JA pull the stone and compare against other stones of various GIA colors so you can at least have some feedback on the matter.
 
I was curious to see what strong fluor would actually look like IRL. Here's what Google showed me:

20130327_105645-1_zpsdfab12e7.jpg
maxresdefault.jpg
IMG_0788.JPG


Does that look about right, PSers? If so, @emac11 do you think your FI would be bothered by it?
 
AnastasiaBeaverhausen said:
I was curious to see what strong fluor would actually look like IRL. Here's what Google showed me:

20130327_105645-1_zpsdfab12e7.jpg
maxresdefault.jpg
IMG_0788.JPG


Does that look about right, PSers? If so, @emac11 do you think your FI would be bothered by it?
Click to expand...

My guess would be those are more extreme cases under specific lighting and they don't always look like that? Can someone more knowledgeable than me confirm if that's the case?
 
I can confirm that strong fluor does not generally look nearly that blue.

IMG_20171007_172047.jpg
 
I don’t have any suggestions for diamonds right now, but I just wanted to chime in on the I vs. J color issue. My opinion is this... if it’s in a halo with limited side view visibility, I would definitely go larger and get a J. As @SimoneDi mentioned, the big increase in size is what she’ll notice.

I had a 2.43 ct J in a halo, and it looked white. Since tiny is more concentrated the larger the stone, I’m confident that a stone in the size range you’re looking to buy will look very white. If you could find a J with fluorescence, then that’s an added bonus, as it will make the stone appear whiter.
 
sledge said:
Easiest way I know to combat this is have JA pull the stone and compare against other stones of various GIA colors so you can at least have some feedback on the matter.
Click to expand...
I don't think JA's stones are in-house. I talked with one of their SA and he just gave me the run arounds. He said it would take like 5-6 days for him to get the images. :wall:
 
Wow, just catching up on threads today and see you’ve gone from $5000/1 carat to a lot more and a lot bigger! FWIW, I like the one you’ve settled on. The tint of the J might be noticeable, but if it bothers either of you you can always exchange it.

Perhaps JA could plop it in the setting and send you a photo for you to asses how it looks together before they do the actual setting of the diamond?

Good luck, and share photos!
 
Dancing Fire said:
I don't think JA's stones are in-house. I talked with one of their SA and he just gave me the run arounds. He said it would take like 5-6 days for him to get the images. :wall:
Click to expand...

That was my experience with JA too when I was looking. And also a reason I nixed them. That said, they have some good pricing, etc. if you are willing to be patient. I've just learned that time is my most valuable asset.


ILikeShiny said:
....photo for you to asses how it looks together before they do the actual setting of the diamond?

Good luck, and share photos!
Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Think you meant assess. ;)2
 
sledge said:
That was my experience with JA too when I was looking. And also a reason I nixed them. That said, they have some good pricing, etc. if you are willing to be patient. I've just learned that time is my most valuable asset.




:lol: :lol: :lol:

Think you meant assess. ;)2
Click to expand...
I guess it depends if they’re asse... er... nice about it :mrgreen2:
 
ILikeShiny said:
Wow, just catching up on threads today and see you’ve gone from $5000/1 carat to a lot more and a lot bigger! FWIW, I like the one you’ve settled on. The tint of the J might be noticeable, but if it bothers either of you you can always exchange it.

Perhaps JA could plop it in the setting and send you a photo for you to asses how it looks together before they do the actual setting of the diamond?

Good luck, and share photos!
Click to expand...

:lol: I know, I didn't plan on going this large, or even spending this much, but Simone posted such a pretty diamond for such a good deal and I had trouble saying no! Hopefully the wife likes it as much as she liked her original ring, I haven't told her anything about the new diamond yet! I'll definitely post pics once I get it. :dance:
 
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emac11 said:
:lol: I know, I didn't plan on going this large, or even spending this much, but Simone posted such a pretty diamond for such a good deal and I had trouble saying no! Hopefully the wife likes it as much as she likes her original ring, I haven't told her anything about the new diamond yet! I'll definitely post pics once I get it. :dance:
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This is so sweet of you! Many of us have to beg our husbands for upgrades and you are going out of your way to surprise her! She will love it!
 
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