Cheaper is not always worse. More expensive is not always better.

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Just a random thought.
A lot of times I see huge variations in prices of virtual diamonds.
One stone I am writing an article for, for example, is mid priced and it is a shocker that slipped thru GIA and got Excellent cut. It is sooo verrryyy baaadddd.
Not sure to call it out or not?
The manufacturer (and I believe some others) found a way to totally trick/cheat GIA. And GIA have done nothing to alert buyers, nor have they changed the Report check on the stone.

 

[headlight]

@Garry H (Cut Nut) This relates to my thread last week, with regard to a “diluting” of value for an Ex, as well as loss of consumer confidence.

 

[Dancing Fire]

A lot of times I see huge variations in prices of virtual diamonds.
One stone I am writing an article for, for example, is mid priced and it is a shocker that slipped thru GIA and got Excellent cut. It is sooo verrryyy baaadddd.

How bad is it Garry? steep/deep or a pancake?

 

[Karl_K]

Nothing would surprise me these days.
Even AGS0 is being cheated with stones with eye visible cut defects getting 0.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

DF is 64.9% GIA Excellent Cut 1ct E VS1 with a thick painted girdle bad? For more than $6,000.

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF is 64.9% GIA Excellent Cut 1ct E VS1 with a thick painted girdle bad? For more than $6,000.

64.9% depth? . What is the diameter? 6.20mm?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

64.9% depth? . What is the diameter? 6.20mm?

The smallest dimension is 6.20mm, yes DF.
The thing is that GIA claim in info that 63% is max for Ex cut. But that is based on the max depth of the deepest angle combos and the thickest allowable Slightly Thick girdle before hitting Thick which results in a grade drop.
So what happens when you trick them. Really trick them. And they don't actually measure the depth %, or actually look at the girdle or underside of the diamond????

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I found many deeper than 65% but this one had a vertical video so I could see the trick

 

[ccuheartnurse]

sad We’ve often remarked on PS about the clarity creep we’ve witnessed over the yrs applicable to both GIA & AGS. Are we now seeing a creep with cut parameters?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

OK here is the video. See if you can see what I see (and why vertical videos are far superior to laying down lazy ones).

 

[Dancing Fire]

Let's hope GIA will soon tighten up their Ex cut parameters, but if they did decide to change their cut parameters then what will happen to all those unsold steep/deep cut stones that are still out in the market?

 

[Serg]

Let's hope GIA will soon tighten up their Ex cut parameters, but if they did decide to change their cut parameters then what will happen to all those unsold steep/deep cut stones that are still out in the market?

.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

What happens to all the stones that slipped through in the meantime Sergey?
For example, if you do a report Check on that particular stone there is no warning to say that this stone should have not received an Excellent cut grade.
https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=7318824858
I wonder how many stones slipped through?
That stone was submitted in January.

 

[Serg]

What happens to all the stones that slipped through in the meantime Sergey?
For example, if you do a report Check on that particular stone there is no warning to say that this stone should have not received an Excellent cut grade.
https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=7318824858
I wonder how many stones slipped through?
That stone was submitted in January.

A lot of such diamond had been slipped in 2019 before middle summer .
in beginning the main source of such diamonds was recut. Cutters bought VG diamond with thick girdle then added pavilion extra facet to receive EX.
see sample of 5.14ct VG

it had been recut to 5.01ct EX( crown was recut and pavilion extra facets was added)



such cheated become well know for cutters and some of them broke common sense


then GIA started grade such diamonds as modified round( -50% from Rapaport)
then new rules for girdle thickness measurements come .

 

[distracts]

sad We’ve often remarked on PS about the clarity creep we’ve witnessed over the yrs applicable to both GIA & AGS. Are we now seeing a creep with cut parameters?

I had been wondering if this happened - when I first joined PS the rule was "get an Si1 if you want to be assured of it being eyeclean, but you can find an eyeclean Si2 if you look/can see pictures" whereas now that seems to have drifted to VS2 and Si1 and Si1s are only maybe eyeclean. Another reason for people to ensure things like eyecleanliness are on their insurance appraisals. You'd hate for someone who had a nice Si2 that was graded years ago to lose it and get stuck with some of the Si2s I see now that look like I1s to me.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

A lot of such diamond had been slipped in 2019 before middle summer .
in beginning the main source of such diamonds was recut. Cutters bought VG diamond with thick girdle then added pavilion extra facet to receive EX.
see sample of 5.14ct VG

it had been recut to 5.01ct EX( crown was recut and pavilion extra facets was added)



such cheated become well know for cutters and some of them broke common sense


then GIA started grade such diamonds as modified round( -50% from Rapaport)
then new rules for girdle thickness measurements come .

Sergey in the example I have seen in a video, it appears there is some painting and digging going on as well. In this example you have posted it appears there is additional digging of the crown upper girdle facets in the second image. There may be a tiny bit of crown side digging in the first image - but no where near as much.
Yet this digging has not been enough to result in a downgrade.
This makes bad worse!

 

[Serg]

Garry, digging does not change a maximum girdle thickness, it changes only an average girdle thickness.
Digging/Painting changes a girdle in bones and it does not change a girdle in bezel points.
So cutters do not need to do extreme digging , they just added pavilion extra facets( more effective and less work for them)

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Garry, digging does not change a maximum girdle thickness, it changes only an average girdle thickness.
Digging/Painting changes a girdle in bones and it does not change a girdle in bezel points.
So cutters do not need to do extreme digging , they just added pavilion extra facets( more effective and less work for them)

Seems to me to be about 3 degrees shift in azimuth Sergey which would make a difference in the appearance.


Here is a Modern Tolkowsky DiamCalc ASET of the dug out stone profiled above - shows some deleterious effects.

 

[Serg]

Garry, how does grade girdle thickness in fancy cuts? Nobody care about fancy cuts girdle thickness , small companies percentage try to cut nice fancy cuts, but PS still splits hire for RBC. Could RBC improve the diamond market? Could RBC save the diamond market? is now good time to spend our energy for nothing.? We could do something much more real helpful for the diamond market.
i do not like stuck in RBC, in minor problems.
Instead girdle thickness in RBC we have to discuss about Spread.
Instead digging in RBC we have to discuss general standards to score, grade, select any cut.

 

[AV_]

@Serg Yield too. It is not ugly.

2p