Caring for the elderly.

[justjulia]

Date: 6/23/2007 11:13:07 PM
Author: isaku5
Rock Candy, you touched a nerve with me when you mentioned that your mom was a great friend and support system and now due to her illness, that has gone.

My mom was just like that for me as well, but as she became more frail her doctor strongly suggested a retirement home. Surprisingly, she took the news rather well and spent a month there on a trial basis. At the end of that month she returned home, realized that she could no longer cope and asked for one of the private rooms she had admired. I phoned her twice a day and visited every second day....but it was never enough and long story short, she turned on me (the only child) and became increasingly verbally abusive over the next ten years. It was a horrible time and since I had no siblings to help, I felt I had no choice , but to keep trying to do the impossible task of trying to please. She died in her sleep at age 93 and I''m sorry to admit that I felt relieved and could not shed a tear. I would never wish a similar experience on anyone. It''s been over seven years since her death and the emotional wounds are still raw.

I will turn 65 on Wednesday, and hope and pray every day that I will not turn into my mother.

Isaku, your post really touched me. My mother is becoming increasingly verbally abusive. Nothing I can do seems to be enough and she always comes back and aplogizes, but the damage is done. If it''s not having the right iced tea, it''s the brand of toilet paper, or that I moved something in her room, or that I ask her to smoke outside. She hardly talks to my children who sadly do not know her like I always thought grandparents should. I too am constantly praying I do not turn into anything like her. I can''t get her interested in anything besides smoking. I have offered to build a waist high planting station so we can do flowers, to go window shopping for clothes, to drive around....no interest. But, my brother comes to town once every 4-6 months and she will go anywhere. Go figure.

 

[justjulia]

Date: 6/22/2007 8:14:51 PM
Author: Regular Guy
it''s a small world. Today, there''s related advice on MSN, here.

This link provided a full evening of satisfying reading. Thanks RG.

 

[Ellen]

Perry, I''m glad to hear some are helping out financially, but you really need to get those close by to help too. And you need to let them know you have issues that need to be dealt with, as you won''t be help to anyone if you''re not well!


sipper, I''m sorry to hear how things are going, you have a lot to deal with. Again (I think I''ll be saying this a lot in this thread), put your foot down with your siblings. Just keep at them til they help. (And I hear you about why don''t the others feel a need to help out?!)

If it gets to the point where you have to take your dad in, I would be adamant the three of you take turns caring for him. 4 months at each home. It is in NO way fair for you to carry the whole burden. I don''t care if you''re a nurse, that''s just a cop out for them.

divergirl, interesting about the reverse mortgages. My brother mentioned that at one point, but I''d never heard of them. It got dropped, but if it comes up again, I''ll tell him what I learned.


RockCandy, YES, all this has definitely made me think about my own mortality. I told my hubby, we need to do things NOW, before it''s too late.

And I see all these new meds that help people live longer. Only, in a lot of cases, they''re not really living, just lingering. I don''t want that. When I can''t "live" life anymore, I don''t want to be here, being a burden...I really hate thinking about it.


isaku, I''m so sorry. {{{hugs}}}


julia, I agree, she needs to be closer than 2 hours away. But, at least your brother is trying!

I can SO relate to the "not too sick, not too well" thing. My dad was put on hospice, and almost died once, but recovered, sort of. The head night nurse at the nursing home told me one day, "Don''t get your hopes up. I have seen this before, where a patient almost dies and then "rallies". And just about the time you think they''re going to be around awhile, they pass".

She wasn''t being mean, at all, just trying to warn me. She really was a great nurse. It was an emotional rollercoaster, was dad going to live, or die? The last couple of months, I started thinking maybe the nurse was wrong about dad, and I thought, I have to pace myself here. I was visiting him every day, but I thought, I cannot do this for a few years, so I started going every 2-3 days. After being on hospice 5 months, his doc took him off it. OK, that made me think he just might be with us awhile. He died a month later. The nurse was right, and I felt HORRIBLE, because if I had known, I would have gone every day. I did the last week when it was quite evident he was not going to make it, but that regret has never gone away...

Which leads me to a point I hope people take. IMO, nurses know way more than doctors sometimes. We want to think doctors know best, but seriously, I''ve run across more than a few instances where I relied on a nurse more than a doctor.

This is not a slam on docs, but there are good ones and bad ones, and I seem to have come across more of the latter unfortunately.

 

[justjulia]

Hey, I have some good news to report. This morning, my brother, my husband, myself, and my best friend all went to visit an assisted living place that I think is going to be wonderful. It is the same place that my best friend''s mother was at. The only issue is that it is going to be a stretch financially. My brother will carry the lion''s share of the cost (he has no children and a lucrative job). He can float this for about 6 months. After that, we will all be struggling. We have no idea how long she will live as I know no one can. Our hospice nurse is telling me this may be the beginning of a slow spiral. Just when she gets really ill, she bounces back, like this week. She''s been doing really well-but I know that all it takes is another round of bronchitis and then I can''t leave her alone.
Anyway, this place is actually near my best friend, so I will have a great support system. I''m still looking in our area, but so far nothing meets criteria for care and cost. My friend lives about 45 mins from me- and we will be able to keep our specialists since it is not that far away.
Can anyone think of why this wouldn''t be a good idea?

 

[isaku5]

Date: 6/24/2007 7:20:24 PM
Author: justjulia
Hey, I have some good news to report. This morning, my brother, my husband, myself, and my best friend all went to visit an assisted living place that I think is going to be wonderful. It is the same place that my best friend''s mother was at. The only issue is that it is going to be a stretch financially. My brother will carry the lion''s share of the cost (he has no children and a lucrative job). He can float this for about 6 months. After that, we will all be struggling. We have no idea how long she will live as I know no one can. Our hospice nurse is telling me this may be the beginning of a slow spiral. Just when she gets really ill, she bounces back, like this week. She''s been doing really well-but I know that all it takes is another round of bronchitis and then I can''t leave her alone.
Anyway, this place is actually near my best friend, so I will have a great support system. I''m still looking in our area, but so far nothing meets criteria for care and cost. My friend lives about 45 mins from me- and we will be able to keep our specialists since it is not that far away.
Can anyone think of why this wouldn''t be a good idea?

Julia, this is great news!!!! Even if she''s able to stay for 6 months, it''s still good. No one knows what will happen by then anyway!!

How soon could she get in????

I am so happy for you, I can hardly contain my enthusiasm!!!!

 

[Ellen]

julia, no, no red flags. And I really like the fact that you know someone who had a relative there. If they were happy, that''s big!

Great news, keep us updated.

Also, you may have missed my question before. Will hospice not cover the expensive cancer med?

 

[justjulia]

Date: 6/24/2007 7:46:37 PM
Author: Ellen
julia, no, no red flags. And I really like the fact that you know someone who had a relative there. If they were happy, that's big!

Great news, keep us updated.

Also, you may have missed my question before. Will hospice not cover the expensive cancer med?

As we were told by Hospice, they cover medications for comfort, not treatment. So, we get basically all the things that kill pain or ease breathing, and aspirin, Immodium, Ibuprofin, valium, benedryl, Topral.... Right now, Medicare continues to pay for the Tarceva and psychiatric drugs that Hospice doesn't pay for. So, as long as we don't go into a full nursing home, everything is "free of charge." The nursing homes are the places that get something like 5K per month from Medicare to cover everything, and if a patient is on medications + room and board that exceeds that 5K, they will not accept them.

My husband and I have gone around in circles about "what do people do who do not have insurance" kind of discussions and my husband says "well, it is not a given right for people to have nursing home care," and I say back, "well, then what do they do?" "Where do these people who, for example, have AIDS and no insurance go? Aren't they on expensive medications?"

Our choice at this point, with mom, is a) a nursing home that accepts Medicare but we pay for the one 4K medicine, or b) we use a private facility and the govt pays for the one 4K medicine. The private facility is more cost effective for us by costing less than 4K and still allowing Medicare to pay for the one 4K med, and at this point is also best for less critical care, and allows smoking (what she enjoys even though it is the thing that has her there). It's a funny world.

It's just too bad that she was married for a long time (stay at home wife) and divorced w/o a retirement plan/401k, and could not get health insurance while working after that due to health problems (before preexisting conditions policy was changed by insurance co's fairly recently). One of those twilight zone situations.

 

[justjulia]

Date: 6/24/2007 7:39:57 PM
Author: isaku5

Date: 6/24/2007 7:20:24 PM
Author: justjulia
Hey, I have some good news to report. This morning, my brother, my husband, myself, and my best friend all went to visit an assisted living place that I think is going to be wonderful. It is the same place that my best friend''s mother was at. The only issue is that it is going to be a stretch financially. My brother will carry the lion''s share of the cost (he has no children and a lucrative job). He can float this for about 6 months. After that, we will all be struggling. We have no idea how long she will live as I know no one can. Our hospice nurse is telling me this may be the beginning of a slow spiral. Just when she gets really ill, she bounces back, like this week. She''s been doing really well-but I know that all it takes is another round of bronchitis and then I can''t leave her alone.
Anyway, this place is actually near my best friend, so I will have a great support system. I''m still looking in our area, but so far nothing meets criteria for care and cost. My friend lives about 45 mins from me- and we will be able to keep our specialists since it is not that far away.
Can anyone think of why this wouldn''t be a good idea?

Julia, this is great news!!!! Even if she''s able to stay for 6 months, it''s still good. No one knows what will happen by then anyway!!

How soon could she get in????

I am so happy for you, I can hardly contain my enthusiasm!!!!

Thank you for sharing my enthusiasm! I''m kind of guarded tonight, because we still have to get all of our ducks in a row with a medical evaluation, etc. I don''t really think that is a problem though. I''m SO glad we can keep our present specialists, because that was A LOT of work to set up initially! I need to pinch myself, because I can''t believe it is all happening. The plan is for her to move in at the beginning July. She is totally on board with all of this and I have shared everything with her as I learn it. I hope this is a smooth transition. Man, I hope this all is as good as it seems right now. It all seems so surreal. I''m lucky to have such a supportive husband, friend, and brother--I feel so blessed right now.

 

[divergrrl]

JustJulia: Ok, I''m confused. You bring up a very good point. My own mom ( a home health nurse) was one of the people instrumental in getting us to drop MIL''s long-term care insurance policy (we had it for over 15 years, but could no longer afford it as the premiums were doubling annually, it was getting out of control) since she said as soon as the elderly person who needed care ran out of assets, that the government picked up the costs.

Is that just for government facilities instead of private ones? Are the gov''t ones just horrible? OMG. I''m TERRIFIED here. How the heck are we supposed to save for retirement, save for our kids college (I started my family late in life, so my kids are 2.5 and one due in Sept), and keep her afloat?

I wonder if my mom was jealous (she''s a loon and very weird) that we were spending thousands a year on my MIL''s insurance & wanted us to cancel it. She says that she saw how it all worked as a home health nurse. I''m very confused.

 

[justjulia]

Date: 6/25/2007 1:59:39 AM
Author: divergrrl
JustJulia: Ok, I'm confused. You bring up a very good point. My own mom ( a home health nurse) was one of the people instrumental in getting us to drop MIL's long-term care insurance policy (we had it for over 15 years, but could no longer afford it as the premiums were doubling annually, it was getting out of control) since she said as soon as the elderly person who needed care ran out of assets, that the government picked up the costs.

Is that just for government facilities instead of private ones? Are the gov't ones just horrible? OMG. I'm TERRIFIED here. How the heck are we supposed to save for retirement, save for our kids college (I started my family late in life, so my kids are 2.5 and one due in Sept), and keep her afloat?

I wonder if my mom was jealous (she's a loon and very weird) that we were spending thousands a year on my MIL's insurance & wanted us to cancel it. She says that she saw how it all worked as a home health nurse. I'm very confused.

What I have run into is that nursing homes usually accept Medicare, which pays for everything once the individual reaches retirement age. My mother also has Medicaid, which she started years ago when she prooved that she was disabled and did not have the assets to pay for all of her medicines. Together, Medicaid and Medicare have paid for her health care for several years now.

BUT...
The nursing homes I have toured, which all have accepted Medicare, have been very NICE. Assisted Living centers are altogether different: they are usually only private pay, do not accept Medicare, and are for people who are not ill enough for nursing home care but need to be around others with minimal medical intervention. Of course, they have been nice, too. There are different levels of assisted living centers--some are just apartments, and others are more like halls with rooms, but with a shared living room, activity room, dining room, and other areas-like a nursing home but "homier."

Our situation is that my mother is ill, but not enough to be ready to cut out some of the medicines that are supposedly curing her. In other words, if she was in her final stage of life, the decision would probably be made to stop at least the chemo pill. My main concern at this time is that the morphine pill she takes to help her cope with her shortness of breath (she had part of her lung removed and has lung cancer) also makes her dizzy and she is prone to fall, and forgets when to take her meds--so I need assistance with monitoring. We could handle this several ways, by hiring a home nurse to sit her while I am at work, but then we go out at night and have children's events, etc, so there would be times we could not cover this. Long story short, assisted living is the way to go FOR NOW. If she slides downhill, we will have to move her to nursing care, and then Medicare would take over completely, whereas now it just covers the medicines.

My mother has life insurance, but has not had long term care insurance (because as you said, it is out of this world expensive).

Edited to add: It seems we are paying "now or later" in that the assisted living is tres expensive, but we don't know how long she will need it. So, long term insurance could have been paid for years and then she only need it for a month. You see the dilema?

How old is your mother?

 

[Sundial]

Oh Julia I''m so relieved to hear that you have found a suitable place for your mother! You cannot continue to take on so much of her daily care yourself. I will keep my fingers crossed that all of the details get worked out. These places can be very expensive and it does make you wonder how people can manage the cost of elder care. I too have found that government support is limited in these matters.

 

[Libster]

Hello Everyone,
I wanted to provide a link that might be helpful when looking for answers to questions about Medicare and some Medicaid information.

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/center/PeopleWithMedicareCenter.asp

Hope this proves helpful.

 

[Ellen]

Libster, thank you! It looks very helpful indeed.

 

[Ellen]

OK, here''s a PRIME example of what I''m dealing with.

Mom is legally blind, and her eyes are still deteriorating with the Macualr Degeneration, even though normally eyes with this will only get so bad and then stop (per what her eye guy said). She LOVES to walk, that and driving and reading were SO important to her. Well, the driving finally had to stop, but not because I, her daughter, finally said, You can''t tell the difference between a regualer green light and a green arrow (seriously). You are going to kill someone, or you, or both. I said this more than once, as nicely as I could, when I really wanted to yell at her, how selfish can you be?? But I digress, the doc finally "recommended" she seriously consider giving up the keys, so she did.

Then it got to the point she couldn''t read, and she gets motion sickness from readers for the visually impaired.

So, all that''s left now is walking. I know how important it is to her, plus she just gets antsy, she''s never been good at sitting still (unless she was reading) and this seems to get worse the older she gets.

About a little over a year ago, she was walking and stumbled over a very small branch she didn''t see, broke bones in both her hands. Got better and went right back to walking outside. I told her it was dangerous, we should get a treadmill, my brother suggested the same thing. Nope, she was going to have it her way, as usual.

Finally, a couple months ago, she relented on the treadmill. So I went shopping for one, found what was suitable for her, had hubby and son spend an afternoon putting it together. Not too long after, she said it kept stopping on her for no reason, that it was broken. I had a feeling it wasn''t (you cannot imagine how appliance challeged this woman is, really), and that she was somehow doing it, how I had no idea. So I came over and walked on it non-stop for 27 minutes (she said it was stopping at about 8 min.). I told her I thought she was hitting the stop button by accident, which is very close to the button for increasing the speed. (I put cardboard over everything else, leaving her only what she needed and had to have).

I took her hand and showed her how to go about hitting the increase button, and to avoid hitting the off button. Then I said to let me know how it went. I didn''t hear anything for a couple weeks, so I assumed all was well. Today I asked her how it''s going, and she says she hasn''t walked on it in about a week, she''s walking outside again.

I said MOM, and she just kinda looked at me. So I said, what are you gonna do if you fall again? She said, I''ll curse (she never curses). I said, I''m gonna curse at you if you get hurt again. That was it, she changed the subject.

I SHOULD have let her have it, and told her all the horrible scenarios that could happen should she fall again. But I didn''t, it does no good. I know nothing, I never have.

And she doesn''t like to be told no, that''s one of her biggest problems, NOBODY ever told her no, and she''s not about to hear it now.

So, I guess I''ll just wait, for whatever.

 

[justjulia]

Date: 6/26/2007 2:58:36 PM
Author: Ellen
OK, here''s a PRIME example of what I''m dealing with.

Mom is legally blind, and her eyes are still deteriorating with the Macualr Degeneration, even though normally eyes with this will only get so bad and then stop (per what her eye guy said). She LOVES to walk, that and driving and reading were SO important to her. Well, the driving finally had to stop, but not because I, her daughter, finally said, You can''t tell the difference between a regualer green light and a green arrow (seriously). You are going to kill someone, or you, or both. I said this more than once, as nicely as I could, when I really wanted to yell at her, how selfish can you be?? But I digress, the doc finally ''recommended'' she seriously consider giving up the keys, so she did.

Then it got to the point she couldn''t read, and she gets motion sickness from readers for the visually impaired.

So, all that''s left now is walking. I know how important it is to her, plus she just gets antsy, she''s never been good at sitting still (unless she was reading) and this seems to get worse the older she gets.

About a little over a year ago, she was walking and stumbled over a very small branch she didn''t see, broke bones in both her hands. Got better and went right back to walking outside. I told her it was dangerous, we should get a treadmill, my brother suggested the same thing. Nope, she was going to have it her way, as usual.

Finally, a couple months ago, she relented on the treadmill. So I went shopping for one, found what was suitable for her, had hubby and son spend an afternoon putting it together. Not too long after, she said it kept stopping on her for no reason, that it was broken. I had a feeling it wasn''t (you cannot imagine how appliance challeged this woman is, really), and that she was somehow doing it, how I had no idea. So I came over and walked on it non-stop for 27 minutes (she said it was stopping at about 8 min.). I told her I thought she was hitting the stop button by accident, which is very close to the button for increasing the speed. (I put cardboard over everything else, leaving her only what she needed and had to have).

I took her hand and showed her how to go about hitting the increase button, and to avoid hitting the off button. Then I said to let me know how it went. I didn''t hear anything for a couple weeks, so I assumed all was well. Today I asked her how it''s going, and she says she hasn''t walked on it in about a week, she''s walking outside again.

I said MOM, and she just kinda looked at me. So I said, what are you gonna do if you fall again? She said, I''ll curse (she never curses). I said, I''m gonna curse at you if you get hurt again. That was it, she changed the subject.

I SHOULD have let her have it, and told her all the horrible scenarios that could happen should she fall again. But I didn''t, it does no good. I know nothing, I never have.

And she doesn''t like to be told no, that''s one of her biggest problems, NOBODY ever told her no, and she''s not about to hear it now.

So, I guess I''ll just wait, for whatever.

Oh Ellen, I think from what you said earlier that she listens to the doctor. This is similar to my mother in that I have found that anything that comes from the doctor''s lips is gospel. So, I have developed the habit of pulling the given doctor aside at the end of our whatever appointment and telling them to tell her word for word what they want her to /not to do. She will follow it word for word. If I say it, it gets mulled over and questioned and not always followed through. Mother is like this particularly with her feel good medications--she''d take them really close together if I let her at em, and then get dizzy and fall--it''s a predictable pattern.
With your mother, I would worry about strangers approaching her or walking too close to cars, or pot holes, or goodness there are a million things. It is going to be so hard to tell her not to walk, I know. I''d definitely get a doctor on board to be the one to talk with her about it. It might also be time for a mild antidepressant, or antianxiety medication to help with all the helpless feelings she may be experiencing. Just my 2 cents--I can only speak from my own experiences.

 

[isaku5]

Date: 6/26/2007 2:58:36 PM
Author: Ellen
OK, here''s a PRIME example of what I''m dealing with.

Mom is legally blind, and her eyes are still deteriorating with the Macualr Degeneration, even though normally eyes with this will only get so bad and then stop (per what her eye guy said). She LOVES to walk, that and driving and reading were SO important to her. Well, the driving finally had to stop, but not because I, her daughter, finally said, You can''t tell the difference between a regualer green light and a green arrow (seriously). You are going to kill someone, or you, or both. I said this more than once, as nicely as I could, when I really wanted to yell at her, how selfish can you be?? But I digress, the doc finally ''recommended'' she seriously consider giving up the keys, so she did.

Then it got to the point she couldn''t read, and she gets motion sickness from readers for the visually impaired.

So, all that''s left now is walking. I know how important it is to her, plus she just gets antsy, she''s never been good at sitting still (unless she was reading) and this seems to get worse the older she gets.

About a little over a year ago, she was walking and stumbled over a very small branch she didn''t see, broke bones in both her hands. Got better and went right back to walking outside. I told her it was dangerous, we should get a treadmill, my brother suggested the same thing. Nope, she was going to have it her way, as usual.

Finally, a couple months ago, she relented on the treadmill. So I went shopping for one, found what was suitable for her, had hubby and son spend an afternoon putting it together. Not too long after, she said it kept stopping on her for no reason, that it was broken. I had a feeling it wasn''t (you cannot imagine how appliance challeged this woman is, really), and that she was somehow doing it, how I had no idea. So I came over and walked on it non-stop for 27 minutes (she said it was stopping at about 8 min.). I told her I thought she was hitting the stop button by accident, which is very close to the button for increasing the speed. (I put cardboard over everything else, leaving her only what she needed and had to have).

I took her hand and showed her how to go about hitting the increase button, and to avoid hitting the off button. Then I said to let me know how it went. I didn''t hear anything for a couple weeks, so I assumed all was well. Today I asked her how it''s going, and she says she hasn''t walked on it in about a week, she''s walking outside again.

I said MOM, and she just kinda looked at me. So I said, what are you gonna do if you fall again? She said, I''ll curse (she never curses). I said, I''m gonna curse at you if you get hurt again. That was it, she changed the subject.

I SHOULD have let her have it, and told her all the horrible scenarios that could happen should she fall again. But I didn''t, it does no good. I know nothing, I never have.

And she doesn''t like to be told no, that''s one of her biggest problems, NOBODY ever told her no, and she''s not about to hear it now.

So, I guess I''ll just wait, for whatever.

Oh, Elen, first of all {{{{big hugs}}}}. I know exactly what you''re talking about

. My mom had MD too and had to give up driving after much prodding ( and failing to pass the vision test at the DMV! - they set the "machine" so she couldn''t see!!!). I had told her prior to the vision test that she should put away her keys as she might hurt or kill someone the way she was driving. Her reply, "That''s their problem".

Then, she couldn''t see the TV " because it was old" so took her to see big screen high def TV''s. She still couldn''t see the picture, but blamed me for telling the store ahead of time to "screw up the picture". She was constantly pressing the wrong buttons on both the TV and radio and she would always phone just as we were having dinner and was unwilling to wait until we had finished. DH indulged her a few times, but then she expected the same service every time she called. Oh, and did I mention that she wanted me to go over every evening at 6 pm to get her ready for bed!!! I dug in my heels on that one and reminded her that she was in a top-notch, state of the art private retirement home and that that was their job. She replied and I quote, " You never were of much use to me"

. I could go on and on, but I''m sure you get the idea.

Again {{{big hugs}}}} and I wish you far better treatment than I received

Remember, we''re here for you any time you want to vent. I''m sorry I don''t have more positive input

 

[Sundial]

Oh Ellen, Julia, and Isabel I can identify!!! I think this behavior stems from not wanting to lose their independence and they see taking advice from their daughters as really giving up their role as the one who makes the rules. I have had to come to terms with the fact that I cannot make my mother happy. I can only do the best I can and understand that she will not appreciate what I try to do for her because she is really just frustrated that she can''t have her old life back.

 

[justjulia]

Date: 6/26/2007 6:54:18 PM
Author: isaku5

Date: 6/26/2007 2:58:36 PM
Author: Ellen
OK, here''s a PRIME example of what I''m dealing with.

Mom is legally blind, and her eyes are still deteriorating with the Macualr Degeneration, even though normally eyes with this will only get so bad and then stop (per what her eye guy said). She LOVES to walk, that and driving and reading were SO important to her. Well, the driving finally had to stop, but not because I, her daughter, finally said, You can''t tell the difference between a regualer green light and a green arrow (seriously). You are going to kill someone, or you, or both. I said this more than once, as nicely as I could, when I really wanted to yell at her, how selfish can you be?? But I digress, the doc finally ''recommended'' she seriously consider giving up the keys, so she did.

Then it got to the point she couldn''t read, and she gets motion sickness from readers for the visually impaired.

So, all that''s left now is walking. I know how important it is to her, plus she just gets antsy, she''s never been good at sitting still (unless she was reading) and this seems to get worse the older she gets.

About a little over a year ago, she was walking and stumbled over a very small branch she didn''t see, broke bones in both her hands. Got better and went right back to walking outside. I told her it was dangerous, we should get a treadmill, my brother suggested the same thing. Nope, she was going to have it her way, as usual.

Finally, a couple months ago, she relented on the treadmill. So I went shopping for one, found what was suitable for her, had hubby and son spend an afternoon putting it together. Not too long after, she said it kept stopping on her for no reason, that it was broken. I had a feeling it wasn''t (you cannot imagine how appliance challeged this woman is, really), and that she was somehow doing it, how I had no idea. So I came over and walked on it non-stop for 27 minutes (she said it was stopping at about 8 min.). I told her I thought she was hitting the stop button by accident, which is very close to the button for increasing the speed. (I put cardboard over everything else, leaving her only what she needed and had to have).

I took her hand and showed her how to go about hitting the increase button, and to avoid hitting the off button. Then I said to let me know how it went. I didn''t hear anything for a couple weeks, so I assumed all was well. Today I asked her how it''s going, and she says she hasn''t walked on it in about a week, she''s walking outside again.

I said MOM, and she just kinda looked at me. So I said, what are you gonna do if you fall again? She said, I''ll curse (she never curses). I said, I''m gonna curse at you if you get hurt again. That was it, she changed the subject.

I SHOULD have let her have it, and told her all the horrible scenarios that could happen should she fall again. But I didn''t, it does no good. I know nothing, I never have.

And she doesn''t like to be told no, that''s one of her biggest problems, NOBODY ever told her no, and she''s not about to hear it now.

So, I guess I''ll just wait, for whatever.

Oh, Elen, first of all {{{{big hugs}}}}. I know exactly what you''re talking about

. My mom had MD too and had to give up driving after much prodding ( and failing to pass the vision test at the DMV! - they set the ''machine'' so she couldn''t see!!!). I had told her prior to the vision test that she should put away her keys as she might hurt or kill someone the way she was driving. Her reply, ''That''s their problem''.

Then, she couldn''t see the TV '' because it was old'' so took her to see big screen high def TV''s. She still couldn''t see the picture, but blamed me for telling the store ahead of time to ''screw up the picture''. She was constantly pressing the wrong buttons on both the TV and radio and she would always phone just as we were having dinner and was unwilling to wait until we had finished. DH indulged her a few times, but then she expected the same service every time she called. Oh, and did I mention that she wanted me to go over every evening at 6 pm to get her ready for bed!!! I dug in my heels on that one and reminded her that she was in a top-notch, state of the art private retirement home and that that was their job. She replied and I quote, '' You never were of much use to me''

. I could go on and on, but I''m sure you get the idea.

Again {{{big hugs}}}} and I wish you far better treatment than I received

Remember, we''re here for you any time you want to vent. I''m sorry I don''t have more positive input

Oh no she did not say that!
Ok, what is it with our older loved ones that makes them turn into something that requires an exorcist? My mother told me yesterday that my brother got upset with her because she said "something at my expense" and had a good laugh about it. She said, "well you just have to laugh at people sometimes." I could not even speak. I thought, "like, why did I even need to hear that?!" I wash, I clean, I fold, I discinfect, prepare meals, prep the mediplanner box, give medicine 5 times a day, tuck in, console, drive, carry oxygen, attend doctors appointments, answer calls, keep things nice and comfortable. Then she turns on me at the strangest times. The only thing that works is to just keep quiet when she does it and let the words hang in the air and she can hear herself---and then she can see how it sounds. But sometimes, I just hold it together until I can get out of the room and cry.

 

[justjulia]

Date: 6/26/2007 7:16:53 PM
Author: Sundial
Oh Ellen, Julia, and Isabel I can identify!!! I think this behavior stems from not wanting to lose their independence and they see taking advice from their daughters as really giving up their role as the one who makes the rules. I have had to come to terms with the fact that I cannot make my mother happy. I can only do the best I can and understand that she will not appreciate what I try to do for her because she is really just frustrated that she can''t have her old life back.

So true, so true.

 

[justjulia]

Date: 6/25/2007 10:00:25 AM
Author: Sundial
Oh Julia I''m so relieved to hear that you have found a suitable place for your mother! You cannot continue to take on so much of her daily care yourself. I will keep my fingers crossed that all of the details get worked out. These places can be very expensive and it does make you wonder how people can manage the cost of elder care. I too have found that government support is limited in these matters.

I''m tickled with this place. My mother was in love with it. I could tell right away it was going to be great. I just have a mountain of paperwork I''ve been working on today. Transferring hospices is going well, but I still need to get some clarification about the medications having to be in bubble wrap containers from the pharmacy at the assisted living facility. I have some meds only half way consumed in regular vials, and they can''t be renewed for a couple of weeks. I hope I get that sorted out tomorrow. Today it was all about talking on the phone and one visit to hospice in person. Also took mom to get a tb test-a requirement for admission. I need to coordinate going to get her bedroom furniture from her home and all the details with that. Monday is going to come fast I think. Eek. All the paperwork is due by tomorrow night. You all please pray that all goes as it should.

 

[Ellen]

Thank you both, it really helps to have someone KNOW what I mean....


Julia, first, yes on telling the doctor. I''m in the midst of writing up notes I''ve been taking on her memory (or lack of) to show him how bad it''s gotten. I can''t even remember all the instances (that''s ironically funny as I type it, lol), and he needs a clear pic. So I''ll be calling him soon for an appt., and if my brother, who''s coming down this weekend, doesn''t get anywhere with her, I''ll have the doc tell her. My brother usually can do/say no wrong in her eyes, so maybe....


And you know, I never even thought of some type of med for her anxiety, but probably because she''s a bonafide health nut. I mean, she doesn''t even want to take an aspirin. However, she will take every health supplement under the sun. I counted 25+ at her house today.... I seriously doubt she''d take one at this point, even if the good doc suggested it, but, I WILL keep that on the back burner.

And yeah, we could come up with all sorts of walking scenarios. Heck, she got cornered by a somewhat aggressive dog that had gotten out of his pen one day. She didn''t know what to do, so she just started calling for help, and luckily 2 kind neighbors came to her rescue.

*sigh* Thanks so much just for listening, and especially about the med suggestion!




isaku, first, thanks for the hugs.

lol Can we talk about the TV situation?? She got a huge flat screen, which she can kinda see, but listens too more. But the remote, my God, the remote. I know you know what I mean. I can''t count the times my dear, dear youngest has gone over and helped her after she pressed the wrong button. But what do you do? You can''t say, mom you can''t handle a remote, give it up....it''s so frustrating, and I can only imagine how much worse it is for her.

Your post about digging in your heels and telling her no struck a nerve. I just said to hubby tonight, I dread the day I REALLY have to tell her no. I''m not kidding, you don''t tell her no. It ain''t gonna be pretty...


I''m SO sorry your mom treated you that way. I know you didn''t deserve it, and I''m just positive you earned yourself some angel wings over taking care of her.

I seriously doubt there''s anything my mother could say that could hurt me anymore than all the things she''s done to me in my life. Actions really do speak louder than words, so, I think I''ve got that part covered.

Thanks again to both of you for letting me vent, it helps.

p.s. Julia, any more news on the place for your mom?

 

[Ellen]

Date: 6/26/2007 7:16:53 PM
Author: Sundial
Oh Ellen, Julia, and Isabel I can identify!!! I think this behavior stems from not wanting to lose their independence and they see taking advice from their daughters as really giving up their role as the one who makes the rules. I have had to come to terms with the fact that I cannot make my mother happy. I can only do the best I can and understand that she will not appreciate what I try to do for her because she is really just frustrated that she can''t have her old life back.

I do know that''s part of it Sundial, I really do. But it''s still frustrating when I''M the one dealing with her. I mean, it just seems so silly that I have to take her to a doc to have him say the SAME thing. But, I know.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 6/26/2007 7:20:18 PM
Author: justjulia
Oh no she did not say that!
Ok, what is it with our older loved ones that makes them turn into something that requires an exorcist? My mother told me yesterday that my brother got upset with her because she said ''something at my expense'' and had a good laugh about it. She said, ''well you just have to laugh at people sometimes.'' I could not even speak. I thought, ''like, why did I even need to hear that?!'' I wash, I clean, I fold, I discinfect, prepare meals, prep the mediplanner box, give medicine 5 times a day, tuck in, console, drive, carry oxygen, attend doctors appointments, answer calls, keep things nice and comfortable. Then she turns on me at the strangest times. The only thing that works is to just keep quiet when she does it and let the words hang in the air and she can hear herself---and then she can see how it sounds. But sometimes, I just hold it together until I can get out of the room and cry.

OK, that was funny.

(and Lord knows we need some funnies!)

You know, my dad got pretty hateful the last year, but I just kept telling myself how horrible he felt. He couldn''t breath (COPD and Emphysema), and that if I were in his shoes, I''d prolly be pretty cranky too. It helped some, but not always.

One day, just about 3 weeks before he died, he left the nursing home to try and live back at his house. I tried to arrange everything the way he would need it. I mean, I was thinking ahead, and of every move he would make. (he was weak, and used a wheelchair a lot) I put the gallon of distilled water on the floor, as counter space was next to none. Well, apparently he''d needed it for something I was unaware of, and he called me just to tell me I''d make a good worker at the nursing home. Trust me, that was NOT compliment.

So I sat him down, and started to tell him how hard I was trying, and of course I started crying, and he got so quiet. Then HE started crying, and apologizing, and all was forgiven. My point is, sometimes they need to be told, in a nice way, how mean they''re being. It may not always work, but sometimes it just might. I really didn''t expect that out of my dad...

 

[Ellen]

Date: 6/26/2007 7:35:41 PM
Author: justjulia
I''m tickled with this place. My mother was in love with it. I could tell right away it was going to be great. I just have a mountain of paperwork I''ve been working on today. Transferring hospices is going well, but I still need to get some clarification about the medications having to be in bubble wrap containers from the pharmacy at the assisted living facility. I have some meds only half way consumed in regular vials, and they can''t be renewed for a couple of weeks. I hope I get that sorted out tomorrow. Today it was all about talking on the phone and one visit to hospice in person. Also took mom to get a tb test-a requirement for admission. I need to coordinate going to get her bedroom furniture from her home and all the details with that. Monday is going to come fast I think. Eek. All the paperwork is due by tomorrow night. You all please pray that all goes as it should.

*saying prayers*

 

[AGBF]

I just wanted to claim my seat here. I read this thread for the first time today. The title (since we have discussed thread titles) had not prepared me for the content of the thread. Somehow I had expected a drier, informational thread, not something that would upset me and make think.

The thread seems to me to be a brilliant idea, Ellen, and it has also been brilliantly executed as you nurtured it through its early phases, commenting on everyone''s contributions to it. Thank you so much for doing that.

Like the other posters who did so, I want to thank Leonid and Irina for making space available here on Pricescope for such discussions. It is truly remakable to be able to speak like this on a diamond forum!

I feel positively battered by all the stories I have heard at once and by the feelings about my own situation, always near the surface, that they have aroused in me. I won''t comment on anyone''s situation now except to say that I am listening and I hope to be able to continue to listen. This is a scary thread for me given my parents'' ages and my feelings about them.

Deborah

 

[rainbowtrout]

My grandfather lived with us while he was dying. My dad wouldn't even hear of a nursing home, he quit his job and stayed home with my grandfather for a year. We couldn't have afforded a nursing home that would have been better than hell, anyway. It was hard on my dad and hard on my grandfather, sometimes I just wanted to scream at dad to let grandpa "go to hell in his own way" for lack of a better phrase. Dad put a lock on the fridge, for god's sake, my grandfather had no dignity left by the end of it. But dad thought he had to do it to keep him alive.


I wanted to comment on something I have thought about with older relatives. They can often be mean and seem to deny reality, but when I stop to think about it they have lost their independence (can't even take walks outside!), lost their health, and just HURT all the time. Being old is no fun.

While that's no excuse for them lashing out at us, I think understanding it can help us deal with our own reactions to it.

I have never gotten over some of the things my mother has said to me when stung out on pain meds and out of it. It sticks with you even when you try to forgive it. What has helped for me is to realize that they often really do not realize what they are saying, it is not personal, and they don't really think it. The wear and tear of chronic illness or old age plus the illnesses that come with it can turn anyone into a raving b*tch sometimes.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 6/26/2007 7:57:51 PM
Author: AGBF

I just wanted to claim my seat here. I read this thread for the first time today. The title (since we have discussed thread titles) had not prepared me for the content of the thread. Somehow I had expected a drier, informational thread, not something that would upset me and make think.

The thread seems to me to be a brilliant idea, Ellen, and it has also been brilliantly executed as you nurtured it through its early phases, commenting on everyone''s contributions to it. Thank you so much for doing that.

Like the other posters who did so, I want to thank Leonid and Irina for making space available here on Pricescope for such discussions. It is truly remakable to be able to speak like this on a diamond forum!

I feel positively battered by all the stories I have heard at once and by the feelings about my own situation, always near the surface, that they have aroused in me. I won''t comment on anyone''s situation now except to say that I am listening and I hope to be able to continue to listen. This is a scary thread for me given my parents'' ages and my feelings about them.

Deborah

Deb, you are too kind. Thank you for your comments.

I want this place to be a haven for all of us. To vent, without being judged, as someone so honestly put it, to share ideas and thoughts, to comfort, and last, but never least, to laugh. One has to find humor in things, even at times like this, or maybe, most, at times like this. It really does help lighten the load.

I hope this thread helps you. Feel free to share if you''d like, or not. Although I will say, though I don''t see you post often, I always enjoy reading when you do.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 6/26/2007 8:11:00 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
My grandfather lived with us while he was dying. My dad wouldn''t even hear of a nursing home, he quit his job and stayed home with my grandfather for a year. We couldn''t have afforded a nursing home that would have been better than hell, anyway. It was hard on my dad and hard on my grandfather, sometimes I just wanted to scream at dad to let grandpa ''go to hell in his own way'' for lack of a better phrase. Dad put a lock on the fridge, for god''s sake, my grandfather had no dignity left by the end of it. But dad thought he had to do it to keep him alive.


I wanted to comment on something I have thought about with older relatives. They can often be mean and seem to deny reality, but when I stop to think about it they have lost their independence (can''t even take walks outside!), lost their health, and just HURT all the time. Being old is no fun.

While that''s no excuse for them lashing out at us, I think understanding it can help us deal with our own reactions to it.

I have never gotten over some of the things my mother has said to me when stung out on pain meds and out of it. It sticks with you even when you try to forgive it. What has helped for me is to realize that they often really do not realize what they are saying, it is not personal, and they don''t really think it. The wear and tear of chronic illness or old age plus the illnesses that come with it can turn anyone into a raving b*tch sometimes.

I agree, and alluded to the fact that sometimes I think older people who are ill and/or dying just plain don''t feel like being nice. And I know I may very well end up there. I do try to be patient, but, we are only human, with feelings. And, sometimes I think older folks take advantage of the situation....I know my MIL was in much pain in her later years, yet I never once heard her complain, or say a cross word. Ever.


It''s tough, all the way around.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Of course. I wasn''t implying that you or anyone else lacked patience, it''s just something that helps me get through things occasionally. I certainly haven''t handled everything I could have well.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 6/26/2007 9:05:33 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
Of course. I wasn''t implying that you or anyone else lacked patience, it''s just something that helps me get through things occasionally. I certainly haven''t handled everything I could have well.

Oh no, I didn''t think that, at all!


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