Bristol Palin Interview on Fox News

[LtlFirecracker]

I agree it is not an excuse, but yes they have a choice and they have consequences to what ever choice they make. My problems comes when we don't offer them all the choices. Abstinence is a choice with the least health consequences, but they may perceive the consequences of loosing the relationship as worse than the possible outcome of sex. We all know the consequences of unprotected sex. Safer sex has consequences as well. There are side effects to birth controls, condoms are effective but not 100%. I am not saying "here is your Yaz, have a good time." I am saying, you need to sit them down, go over all the options and the pros and cons of each. Some teens will come to the conclusion that BC has too many side effects and they will wait. Some teens will think that is perfect for them, afterall they may have other health issues that BC will help with and they are having sex no matter what. And of curse, some will get the pill, forget to take it and end up pregnant. Not offering a choice because of their age is something that I do not feel is right.

If we could get people (adolescents and adults) to make the right decision about many areas in life (smoking, diet, sex), we would drastically cut back many of the top diseases in the world that kill people (lung cancer, heart disease, AIDS in Africa). Sadly, if I have learned one thing it is that I cannot control individual behavior. My job would be so easy if I could. I want to keep people healthy despite their imperfect choices.

 

[beebrisk]

Date: 2/20/2009 10:03:21 PM
Author: zhuzhu
LtlFirecracker, very well said. Thank you.


I was also wondering, those who are deeply against teen having sex or exposing them to anything that will trigger ''thoughts of sex'', how do you fight against nature? To ''fight away'' nature urges, masturbation is the safest way as it relieves sexual frustration and does not result in STD/pregnancy. How do you feel about teaching that to hormone-driven teenage boys so they do not approach your daughters in the way that you do not approve of?

I don''t think anyone here said they are deeply against exposing teens to anything that will trigger "thoughts of sex". Those are your words.

But a parent has a responsibility to do everything they can to instill a moral fiber in a kid that transcends all the krap that they are exposed to on a daily basis.

Kids will be kids, no doubt. But not ALL teens have sex. Some teens actually understand what it can lead to and make the decision not to do it.

While hormones may indeed be raging, it doesn''t mean we''re animals acting purely on instinct and unable to control our sexual impulses. Even at 16!

Is it difficult sometimes? Yeah. But there are good kids from good parents who understand that most of what sex brings to a teenager is destructive. Because their parents taught them THAT...instead of showing them how to unroll a condom on a banana.

 

[beebrisk]

Date: 2/20/2009 10:47:28 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker
I agree it is not an excuse, but yes they have a choice and they have consequences to what ever choice they make. My problems comes when we don't offer them all the choices. Abstinence is a choice with the least health consequences, but they may perceive the consequences of loosing the relationship as worse than the possible outcome of sex.

Holey Moley! THIS is the message you want to send to kids? "Abstinence is best, but really, I understand that you may want to use your body to hold onto your boyfriend/girlfriend, so okay, that's your choice honey"??

I'm speechless. For the first time.

 

[zhuzhu]

Date: 2/20/2009 11:09:09 PM
Author: beebrisk

Date: 2/20/2009 10:47:28 PM

Author: LtlFirecracker

I agree it is not an excuse, but yes they have a choice and they have consequences to what ever choice they make. My problems comes when we don''t offer them all the choices. Abstinence is a choice with the least health consequences, but they may perceive the consequences of loosing the relationship as worse than the possible outcome of sex.

Holey Moley! THIS is the message you want to send to kids? ''Abstinence is best, but really, I understand that you may want to use your body to hold onto your boyfriend/girlfriend, so okay, that''s your choice honey''??


I''m speechless. For the first time.

That is not what she is saying at all.
For you to put words like that in her totally uncalled for, and mean-spirited.

 

[beebrisk]

Date: 2/20/2009 11:15:27 PM
Author: zhuzhu

Date: 2/20/2009 11:09:09 PM

Author: beebrisk

Date: 2/20/2009 10:47:28 PM


Author: LtlFirecracker


I agree it is not an excuse, but yes they have a choice and they have consequences to what ever choice they make. My problems comes when we don''t offer them all the choices. Abstinence is a choice with the least health consequences, but they may perceive the consequences of loosing the relationship as worse than the possible outcome of sex.

Holey Moley! THIS is the message you want to send to kids? ''Abstinence is best, but really, I understand that you may want to use your body to hold onto your boyfriend/girlfriend, so okay, that''s your choice honey''??



I''m speechless. For the first time.

That is not what she is saying at all.

For you to put words like that in her totally uncalled for, and mean-spirited.

Actually, yeah, I think that''s exactly what she meant.

 

[zhuzhu]

Date: 2/20/2009 11:36:10 PM
Author: beebrisk



Actually, yeah, I think that''s exactly what she meant.

Well, you think wrong.

She is merely describing how some teenagers in our society think, based on facts. She is not "sending any message" to encourage them to "use your body to hold onto your boyfriend/girlfriend". Furthermore, it is important to understand how children perceive the world so you can best help them, and she gets that.

It is your business how you want to teach and discipline your own children about sex. However to attack people who are professionally trained to help them, and have the best interest of children''s health at heart, is just low.

 

[Definitely. Maybe]

I''ve said it before that they are going to make their own decisions no matter what and I still think that''s true. I have to agree with HollyS though. A way to "fix" this is to be a parent and monitor your children. I am not saying lock them up in a room until they are old enough to have sex. I am saying make sure events/outings that your children attend are properly chaperoned. This probably isn''t the "best" example, but look at the Duggar family (one with 18 kids). They teach their children certain values, make sure they are always chaperoned, etc. I really look up to that and think that is a good way to parent. It doesn''t have to be as extreme as them, but you get the idea.

Don''t give them the opportunity to make a ''mistake.'' I know there are plenty of ways to get around any parental constraints. I can look back at when I was younger and see how my own parents and friends parents could have monitored us a little better.

 

[beebrisk]

Date: 2/21/2009 12:13:44 AM
Author: zhuzhu

Date: 2/20/2009 11:36:10 PM

Author: beebrisk




Actually, yeah, I think that's exactly what she meant.

Well, you think wrong.


She is merely describing how some teenagers in our society think, based on facts. She is not 'sending any message' to encourage them to 'use your body to hold onto your boyfriend/girlfriend'. Furthermore, it is important to understand how children perceive the world so you can best help them, and she gets that.


It is your business how you want to teach and discipline your own children about sex. However to attack people who are professionally trained to help them, and have the best interest of children's health at heart, is just low.

The poster seems to have "problems" when we don't offer teens "all the choices". Offering a teenager "all the choices" is a frightening prospect. And one she mentions here is to condone the choice to have sex if he or she feels that "loosing the relationship is worse than the possible outcome of sex". And, if that's what the kid wants, then by all means hand over the BC and condoms.

It's irresponsible, dangerous and destructive. Sorry, but "professional" status doesn't leave anyone above reproach. Nor does it deem any or all of their conclusions correct.
So yeah, I "think right".

 

[beebrisk]

Date: 2/21/2009 12:40:53 AM
Author: Definitely, Maybe
I''ve said it before that they are going to make their own decisions no matter what and I still think that''s true. I have to agree with HollyS though. A way to ''fix'' this is to be a parent and monitor your children. I am not saying lock them up in a room until they are old enough to have sex. I am saying make sure events/outings that your children attend are properly chaperoned. This probably isn''t the ''best'' example, but look at the Duggar family (one with 18 kids). They teach their children certain values, make sure they are always chaperoned, etc. I really look up to that and think that is a good way to parent. It doesn''t have to be as extreme as them, but you get the idea.


Don''t give them the opportunity to make a ''mistake.'' I know there are plenty of ways to get around any parental constraints. I can look back at when I was younger and see how my own parents and friends parents could have monitored us a little better.

Agreed. 18 kids may be over the top, but if more parents were like the Duggars this would be a happier, healthier world for the next generation of children. Wouldn''t that be a wonderful legacy? If only....

 

[JSM]

Date: 2/20/2009 11:09:09 PM
Author: beebrisk

Date: 2/20/2009 10:47:28 PM

Author: LtlFirecracker

I agree it is not an excuse, but yes they have a choice and they have consequences to what ever choice they make. My problems comes when we don''t offer them all the choices. Abstinence is a choice with the least health consequences, but they may perceive the consequences of loosing the relationship as worse than the possible outcome of sex.

Holey Moley! THIS is the message you want to send to kids? ''Abstinence is best, but really, I understand that you may want to use your body to hold onto your boyfriend/girlfriend, so okay, that''s your choice honey''??


I''m speechless. For the first time.

Quoted to BOLD the above. She was not condoning these actions, merely offering an explanation as to why some teenagers have sex.

Maybe it''s because I am not too far removed from teenager-hood (I''m mid twenties), but I don''t think 17 year olds are kids anymore. In many cases they have jobs, a few bills (car insurance, for example), and are making decisions on their own that will affect the rest of their lives. You can''t follow a kid around 24/7. Not only is this unrealistic, but helicopter parenting only leads to new adults that can''t make decisions on their own.

 

[AllieGator]

I feel I need to chime in. As someone who was very recently a teenager, I know the pressures that some teen guys put on teen girls about sex. I was able to resist, but I know many girls don''t. And it''s true, when you are young, you don''t take sex seriously. It doesn''t seem like something important, just something new to try and have fun with.

Teaching kids about abstinence, and nothing else, sets them up for disaster. As many people have said above, kids will have sex no matter what-Bristol Palin obviously did. I doubt that Sarah Palin taught Bristol about birth control, and look at the situation she was put in.

Take, for instance, the study just done on Abstinence Pledges. Although they are likely to delay sex longer, and have fewer partners, they are much more cavalier in their attitudes towards birth control, and are more likely to experiment with the two other forms of sex (I''m not sure if I''m allowed to say those words on here, but you know what I mean.) And those two are, actually, just as risky as plain old sex when it comes to STDs.

Here''s a quote from the article, I''ve linked below it:

"The sad story is that kids who are trying to preserve their technical virginity are, in some cases, engaging in much riskier behavior," said lead author Peter S. Bearman, a professor at Columbia''s Institute for Social and Economic Research and Policy. "From a public health point of view, an abstinence movement that encourages no vaginal sex may inadvertently encourage other forms of alternative sex that are at higher risk of STDs."


Washington Post Article

 

[Lauren8211]

To be fair, social pressures have a lot more to do with our decisions than stuff that is ingrained in us by our parents. People greatly underestimate the effect that social pressures have on us.

My parents rarely ever talked about sex, or abstinence, or birth control, or any of these things. The only real "discussion" I got from my mom was "If you get pregnant, I''m taking you to the clinic faster than you can imagine."

Literally. That''s all I got.

However, my friends did not engage in sex. All of my friends were virgins all through high school. So I didn''t do it either. Kids in other groups (with parents of varying views) would sleep with everyone. No matter what you do, raising a kid who can resist social pressures is a huge task. HUGE. It''s not even a matter of other kids saying "C''mon... everyone is doing it" (after school special style) but when your exposure to a particular event is constant, you''re more likely to do it. Friends are having sex? it''s more likely that you will also.

Secondly, the whole chaperone them til they''re 18 thing? Yeah, I''ve seen that too. Know what happens when they go to college? They get drunk. And pregnant. (This is obviously a generalization, but I''ve seen it happen... often.)

Point is, parents do the best they can. Arm your kids with information. Sex is NOT bad in my opinion. It''s not wrong to want to do it. I just hope at the end of the day, that my kid respects it as something you do with someone you love, and that they do it responsibly.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 2/21/2009 10:36:47 AM
Author: elledizzy5
To be fair, social pressures have a lot more to do with our decisions than stuff that is ingrained in us by our parents. People greatly underestimate the effect that social pressures have on us.

My parents rarely ever talked about sex, or abstinence, or birth control, or any of these things. The only real ''discussion'' I got from my mom was ''If you get pregnant, I''m taking you to the clinic faster than you can imagine.''

Literally. That''s all I got.

However, my friends did not engage in sex. All of my friends were virgins all through high school. So I didn''t do it either. Kids in other groups (with parents of varying views) would sleep with everyone. No matter what you do, raising a kid who can resist social pressures is a huge task. HUGE. It''s not even a matter of other kids saying ''C''mon... everyone is doing it'' (after school special style) but when your exposure to a particular event is constant, you''re more likely to do it. Friends are having sex? it''s more likely that you will also.

Secondly, the whole chaperone them til they''re 18 thing? Yeah, I''ve seen that too. Know what happens when they go to college? They get drunk. And pregnant. (This is obviously a generalization, but I''ve seen it happen... often.)

Point is, parents do the best they can. Arm your kids with information. Sex is NOT bad in my opinion. It''s not wrong to want to do it. I just hope at the end of the day, that my kid respects it as something you do with someone you love, and that they do it responsibly.

Ditto this 100%, especially the bolded part. I''ve also seen it happen!

And I wonder if the people posting "JUST PLAIN DON''T LET YOUR KIDS OUT OF YOUR SIGHT!" and "MAKE THEM LISTEN!!!" have ever experienced the joys of having a teenager? It''s been a little while since I was a teenager, but trust this: teenagers do what they want...or they don''t. You don''t know which one you''ll get until they''re teenagers.

I grew up in the same household as 4 other siblings and we all turned out VERY differently. And I will say that me and one of my brothers listened to our parents a lot less than my twin sister, other brother and my older sister. Does that mean we were going out and having sex? Nope! But if we wanted to, I guarantee that we would have.

And I was raised in a two parent, upper middle class, Republican, conservative Catholic home, for those of you who are thinking I was raised by hippies or wolves.

 

[HollyS]

Date: 2/20/2009 11:15:27 PM
Author: zhuzhu

Date: 2/20/2009 11:09:09 PM
Author: beebrisk

Date: 2/20/2009 10:47:28 PM

Author: LtlFirecracker

I agree it is not an excuse, but yes they have a choice and they have consequences to what ever choice they make. My problems comes when we don''t offer them all the choices. Abstinence is a choice with the least health consequences, but they may perceive the consequences of loosing the relationship as worse than the possible outcome of sex.

Holey Moley! THIS is the message you want to send to kids? ''Abstinence is best, but really, I understand that you may want to use your body to hold onto your boyfriend/girlfriend, so okay, that''s your choice honey''??


I''m speechless. For the first time.

That is not what she is saying at all.
For you to put words like that in her totally uncalled for, and mean-spirited.

No. She had it right. She just put it in looser language. No teenager, properly brought up by parents who give a damn, should ever think that they need to ''put out'' to keep a relationship. The response you should want your daughter to make, and she should be expected to make, is "I don''t need this relationship."

No parent, who gives a hoot, would allow their daughter to be in a relationship that intense, that over-the-top, in HS anyway. I can say with sure knowledge that it is possible for kids to be high school sweethearts without the sexual drama; my sister has been married for 34 years to her HS boyfriend. They began dating before either of them could drive. Sure, I know that it is no longer the 1970s, but sex had been invented by then, and The Pill was on the market. But peeling off one''s clothes every time someone asked just wasn''t the way most people, teenager or not, handled their sexuality. As I said before, it is about respect for yourself; that is what these decisions come down to. If they don''t have the confidence, self respect, or just plain chutzpah to stand up for themselves, then that child is probably making piss-poor moral decisions everyday. And that, and only that, is the root cause of every issue regarding a child''s sexuality.

Along with parents absolutely refusing to give their children ''choices'' when it comes to being sexually active, is the constant watchful eyes seeing everything their child is doing. Of course it can be done; parents did it for many generations prior to - say - the Seventies. But being vigilant requires effort. Sadly, quite a few parents don''t make the effort. It is evident that Sarah Palin did not make effort enough.

And frankly, Bristol is now a young unwed mother because she did not respect herself enough to say no; she did not respect her parents enough to say no; she did not remember that her mother was a public figure, and therefore everyone would be aware of her situation. It should have mattered to her, before she got busy, and that is where she failed her parents and her parents failed her.

Now, I may sound like a fuddy-duddy. I know I''m not. I didn''t ''wait'' to get married. I didn''t always make the right choices. In retrospect, I''m completely befuddled by some of my past decisions. The point is -- those stupid moves were not made while I was a teenager in my parent''s home. They loved me enough to raise me to adulthood before giving me control over my ''choices''. And I''m merely lucky that my ''choices'' left me unscathed. Teenagers shouldn''t carry the burden of having ''choices''. Or by extension, ''consequences''.

 

[beebrisk]

Date: 2/21/2009 10:36:47 AM
Author: elledizzy5
To be fair, social pressures have a lot more to do with our decisions than stuff that is ingrained in us by our parents. People greatly underestimate the effect that social pressures have on us.


My parents rarely ever talked about sex, or abstinence, or birth control, or any of these things. The only real ''discussion'' I got from my mom was ''If you get pregnant, I''m taking you to the clinic faster than you can imagine.''


Literally. That''s all I got.


However, my friends did not engage in sex. All of my friends were virgins all through high school. So I didn''t do it either. Kids in other groups (with parents of varying views) would sleep with everyone. No matter what you do, raising a kid who can resist social pressures is a huge task. HUGE. It''s not even a matter of other kids saying ''C''mon... everyone is doing it'' (after school special style) but when your exposure to a particular event is constant, you''re more likely to do it. Friends are having sex? it''s more likely that you will also.


Secondly, the whole chaperone them til they''re 18 thing? Yeah, I''ve seen that too. Know what happens when they go to college? They get drunk. And pregnant. (This is obviously a generalization, but I''ve seen it happen... often.)


Point is, parents do the best they can. Arm your kids with information. Sex is NOT bad in my opinion. It''s not wrong to want to do it. I just hope at the end of the day, that my kid respects it as something you do with someone you love, and that they do it responsibly.

It''s sad that in this day and age we almost "expect" a percentage of high school college kids to get drunk, pregnant or worse. But that, unfortunately, is a product of the culture we''ve produced.

I agree sex is NOT bad...when you are a responsible adult, old enough and mature enough to make the right choices. However, sex IS bad for a kid, and I would hope every parent would take the time to send that message. For a teen, sex NEVER leads to anything good. Never. Try to think of one good, healthy, life-affirming thing that comes from a high schooler having sex?. It''s impossible to conceive of one (no pun intended).

And I wholeheartedly agree that outside influences are overwhelming to an impressionable teen. Another reason why as responsible adults we should clean up the culture. Alas, it''s probably too late.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 2/21/2009 10:51:35 AM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 2/21/2009 10:36:47 AM

Author: elledizzy5

To be fair, social pressures have a lot more to do with our decisions than stuff that is ingrained in us by our parents. People greatly underestimate the effect that social pressures have on us.


My parents rarely ever talked about sex, or abstinence, or birth control, or any of these things. The only real 'discussion' I got from my mom was 'If you get pregnant, I'm taking you to the clinic faster than you can imagine.'


Literally. That's all I got.


However, my friends did not engage in sex. All of my friends were virgins all through high school. So I didn't do it either. Kids in other groups (with parents of varying views) would sleep with everyone. No matter what you do, raising a kid who can resist social pressures is a huge task. HUGE. It's not even a matter of other kids saying 'C'mon... everyone is doing it' (after school special style) but when your exposure to a particular event is constant, you're more likely to do it. Friends are having sex? it's more likely that you will also.


Secondly, the whole chaperone them til they're 18 thing? Yeah, I've seen that too. Know what happens when they go to college? They get drunk. And pregnant. (This is obviously a generalization, but I've seen it happen... often.)


Point is, parents do the best they can. Arm your kids with information. Sex is NOT bad in my opinion. It's not wrong to want to do it. I just hope at the end of the day, that my kid respects it as something you do with someone you love, and that they do it responsibly.

Ditto this 100%, especially the bolded part. I've also seen it happen!


And I wonder if the people posting 'JUST PLAIN DON'T LET YOUR KIDS OUT OF YOUR SIGHT!' and 'MAKE THEM LISTEN!!!' have ever experienced the joys of having a teenager? It's been a little while since I was a teenager, but trust this: teenagers do what they want...or they don't. You don't know which one you'll get until they're teenagers.


I grew up in the same household as 4 other siblings and we all turned out VERY differently. And I will say that me and one of my brothers listened to our parents a lot less than my twin sister, other brother and my older sister. Does that mean we were going out and having sex? Nope! But if we wanted to, I guarantee that we would have.


And I was raised in a two parent, upper middle class, Republican, conservative Catholic home, for those of you who are thinking I was raised by hippies or wolves.

Seriously! I guess you can simply walk your kid around school all day. I mean, they can have sex there as well. Wait, what if you have more than one kid, maybe you can split yourself in half and attach yourself to both. I'm thinking, in a two parent household you can cover 4 kids! Woot!

I remember when I first went to college, those kids were getting wasted. It was pretty obvious they had never been allowed to do anything before heading off to school. Myself, and others, who weren't psychotically supervised, were just baffled as we watched them puke blood and have sex with each other. Being over protective may save some kids, but it pushes others off the deep end once they get the slightest taste of freedom. It really is best to TEACH your kid about various options so when they are finally in a position WITHOUT you they can make a well informed decision. Not everyone is scared into submission...but hey, I'm not surprised by the fear tactic.

Oh, and the reading comprehension problem is hilarious.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Wow. I think my words were taken a bit out of context. Thanks to all of those who stood up for me, I really appreciate that, because I am pretty offended by some of the things that were said. I am sorry if I made some of you speechless, but the logic of adolescents is not always logical. I used the example of the brain still maturing because it describes biologically what we have been dealing with for years. I remember when I was still a student listening to the frustration of the adolescence medicine doctor. He said he would spend all this time educating his patients on the consequences of sex and their options, and some would come back pregnant. And he would look at them and ask them "how did this happen, you had all the information." And he says they would say the same thing, "well, yeah...but I didn''t think it would happen to me." Some teanagers just need a speech and understand. Some don''t understand the consequences of their mistakes until they are learning from them. He said, their immature reasoning drove them crazy.

My example of having sex to stay in a relationship is something one of my friends in high school did. She held out for months, I didn''t hear from her for a week. When we talked she told me she they were fighting and she slept with him as a last ditch effort. Of course he left her. I looked at her and asked her why she did that, I told her that never works and that I would never give my virginity to keep a guy. She did not answer me, and I could tell she was upset that I judged her actions. Eventually, over the years I learned if you judge a person for their actions, they will shut you out and stop communicating with you. If someone stops communicating with you, you cannot help them. I am sorry if I made someone speechless, but this is real life. I have seen parents try to isolate their teens and keep a close watch on them, only to completely loose control, and end up with a teen acting out and doing even worse things.

At the end of the day, I will have my views and not everyone will agree with them. If a teen has made their decision, and wants birth control, I want them to have a place to get it where they don''t have to worried about being judged. I want them to have accurate information (including the dangerous things). If they are doing something that might be a sign of acting out, I want to get them help. I will not be-able to do anything if they don''t talk to me. I think what I liked about Bristol Pallin was that she realized she made a mistake, and came out against the people who judged her. I also am glad she came out and said that abstinence only is not realistic. She realized you can not control someone''s behavior, no matter how hard you try. I would be interested to see if she still thinks that 10 years from now, or goes back to her family''s views and tries to take complete control the behavior of her own children.

 

[beebrisk]

Date: 2/21/2009 12:55:22 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker
Wow. I think my words were taken a bit out of context. Thanks to all of those who stood up for me, I really appreciate that, because I am pretty offended by some of the things that were said. I am sorry if I made some of you speechless, but the logic of adolescents is not always logical. I used the example of the brain still maturing because it describes biologically what we have been dealing with for years. I remember when I was still a student listening to the frustration of the adolescence medicine doctor. He said he would spend all this time educating his patients on the consequences of sex and their options, and some would come back pregnant. And he would look at them and ask them 'how did this happen, you had all the information.' And he says they would say the same thing, 'well, yeah...but I didn't think it would happen to me.' Some teanagers just need a speech and understand. Some don't understand the consequences of their mistakes until they are learning from them. He said, their immature reasoning drove them crazy.


My example of having sex to stay in a relationship is something one of my friends in high school did. She held out for months, I didn't hear from her for a week. When we talked she told me she they were fighting and she slept with him as a last ditch effort. Of course he left her. I looked at her and asked her why she did that, I told her that never works and that I would never give my virginity to keep a guy. She did not answer me, and I could tell she was upset that I judged her actions. Eventually, over the years I learned if you judge a person for their actions, they will shut you out and stop communicating with you. If someone stops communicating with you, you cannot help them. I am sorry if I made someone speechless, but this is real life. I have seen parents try to isolate their teens and keep a close watch on them, only to completely loose control, and end up with a teen acting out and doing even worse things.


At the end of the day, I will have my views and not everyone will agree with them. If a teen has made their decision, and wants birth control, I want them to have a place to get it where they don't have to worried about being judged. I want them to have accurate information (including the dangerous things). If they are doing something that might be a sign of acting out, I want to get them help. I will not be-able to do anything if they don't talk to me. I think what I liked about Bristol Pallin was that she realized she made a mistake, and came out against the people who judged her. I also am glad she came out and said that abstinence only is not realistic. She realized you can not control someone's behavior, no matter how hard you try. I would be interested to see if she still thinks that 10 years from now, or goes back to her family's views and tries to take complete control the behavior of her own children.

I completely agree that an adolescents brain is not always logical. That's precisely why a parent must be vigilant and caring enough to walk them down the right path. This is not about simply teaching kids the consequences of sex (an important factor I agree) it's about teaching them morals, character and self respect. I don't give a flip about the biology. We aren't primates. We are humans who need to instill a little self control in our kids and make them understand that not all "urges" are good ones and that there is a time and a place to act on them. "Immature reasoning" is EXACTLY why no teen should be given "all the choices". Isn't it obvious what the inevitable outcome of that thinking is??

And as far as "judging" a kid? If a parent doesn't have the right to "judge" their own child, and make reasonable, responsible decisions on their behalf, then God help us, because what we'd end up with is a society of pregnant, diseased savages.

Sorry if you find it offensive, but I think giving "all the choices" to immature brains, with poor logic, reasoning and judgement (your words) is supremely irresponsible and frankly, tragic.

 

[risingsun]

Date: 2/21/2009 12:55:22 PM
Author: LtlFirecracker
Wow. I think my words were taken a bit out of context. Thanks to all of those who stood up for me, I really appreciate that, because I am pretty offended by some of the things that were said. I am sorry if I made some of you speechless, but the logic of adolescents is not always logical. I used the example of the brain still maturing because it describes biologically what we have been dealing with for years. I remember when I was still a student listening to the frustration of the adolescence medicine doctor. He said he would spend all this time educating his patients on the consequences of sex and their options, and some would come back pregnant. And he would look at them and ask them ''how did this happen, you had all the information.'' And he says they would say the same thing, ''well, yeah...but I didn''t think it would happen to me.'' Some teanagers just need a speech and understand. Some don''t understand the consequences of their mistakes until they are learning from them. He said, their immature reasoning drove them crazy.

My example of having sex to stay in a relationship is something one of my friends in high school did. She held out for months, I didn''t hear from her for a week. When we talked she told me she they were fighting and she slept with him as a last ditch effort. Of course he left her. I looked at her and asked her why she did that, I told her that never works and that I would never give my virginity to keep a guy. She did not answer me, and I could tell she was upset that I judged her actions. Eventually, over the years I learned if you judge a person for their actions, they will shut you out and stop communicating with you. If someone stops communicating with you, you cannot help them. I am sorry if I made someone speechless, but this is real life. I have seen parents try to isolate their teens and keep a close watch on them, only to completely loose control, and end up with a teen acting out and doing even worse things.

At the end of the day, I will have my views and not everyone will agree with them. If a teen has made their decision, and wants birth control, I want them to have a place to get it where they don''t have to worried about being judged. I want them to have accurate information (including the dangerous things). If they are doing something that might be a sign of acting out, I want to get them help. I will not be-able to do anything if they don''t talk to me. I think what I liked about Bristol Pallin was that she realized she made a mistake, and came out against the people who judged her. I also am glad she came out and said that abstinence only is not realistic. She realized you can not control someone''s behavior, no matter how hard you try. I would be interested to see if she still thinks that 10 years from now, or goes back to her family''s views and tries to take complete control the behavior of her own children.

I have seen the same thing in my practice and my personal life. I think the best we can do is teach our children about values and demonstrate these values in our daily life. Be the best role model we can. That doesn''t mean being the "perfect" person. It''s good for our children to know that we are human and how we resolve problems. I''ve worked with enough adolescents to know that all the oversight in the world won''t stop them from doing what they want to do. Would you rather they come to you for advice and help or go to someone else? I would like to know how many people on this thread have or have had teenagers to raise. In what context are you approaching this discussion.

 

[E B]

I didn't read the rest of this thread after my last comment (as it seems to have taken an unusually nasty turn!

) but I will say I found the first part quite interesting. In this thread alone, we have people of different ages and backgrounds discussing ways they feel are the best to prevent teen pregnancy/STDs, and what we have each experienced as teenagers has no doubt influenced the way we would have parented, are parenting or will parent a teenager.

In my opinion, both the "no sex until you're married, period" camp and the "come to me if you want to discuss options" camp have equally interesting and possibly successful ideas for preventing teen pregnancy, and it all comes down to what works for you and your family.

Fin.

 

[Haven]

First, everyone should realize that you all want the SAME end result here: safer, healthier, child-free teens. This "us vs. them" mentality that we have on this board will get us nowhere.

Second, I have to say that since I've become a high school educator my opinions on this issue have changed as my understanding of teenagers, their parents, the educational system, and how society affects teens has changed.

Bottom line: It seems to me that sex ed programs (in all forms--abstinence only, contraceptive use, etc.) address the symptom, which is teens having sex. The problem here is a lack of you name it: low self-respect, lack of a true grasp of the consequences of having sex, questionable parental guidance, a low level of parental watchfulness, etc.

We can continue to argue over how best to address the symptom, or we can attack the source. Kids don't have sex because they were taught how to use a condom, and they don't have unprotected sex because they were taught abstinence-only. They don't have sex because they saw a teenage pop icon gyrate onstage in a bra and panties, and they don't have sex because their friends are all doing it so they figure "Why not?" They don't have sex because they have access to free condoms from the public health clinic. And they certainly don't go on to college and have multiple sex partners because their parents kept a watchful eye on them throughout their first 18 years and now they need to rebel.

Teens have sex because they have the time to do it, the place, and the confidence that this behavior isn't really all that bad, even if it does result in a pregnancy or worse. Period.

I don't disagree with many of the posts in this thread. LtlFirecracker--It sounds like you're in a social services position, and if you are, the work you do is vital in our society. I agree wholeheartedly. I agree that we need to help children after they make bad decisions, trust me, I spend much of my professional work doing just that. And I thank you for doing the work you do. I also agree completely with every single post Holly's made.

I just think that perhaps it's time we (as a society) stop being so reactive in our approach to teen sex and pregnancy, and we get real and get to the heart of the matter. Educators can only do so much. Programs and clinics and peers and the media can only have so much influence. Children learn how to live and how to make decisions and how to be people at home. Despite all of the exposure my teenage students have to the media and each other, I have never ONCE been surprised by a student's behavior or choices after meeting their parents. NOT ONCE. The child always makes sense to me after I meet their parents, no fail.

Children need to be parented and some parents need to be taught how to parent their teens. Instead of focusing on the kids when they are already in their teens and many of their choice patterns have been set, why don't we provide help for the parents out there? My district offers "Raising a healthy teen" classes and the like. I am not a parent yet, and at this point in my life I have no clue how to actually help a little baby grow into a responsible adult. And I'm pretty sure I won't magically possess all the answers the minute I become pregnant. I will need help when I become a parent, and I imagine most parents could use a little guidance every once in a while.

And really, let's get real: Know where your children are, and with whom they are spending their time. Is that easy? No. But that is not an excuse to unleash your teens every weekend and hope that they come home safe and with their virginity intact. Michael Dirda, literary critic, once wrote "If you aren't prepared to read to your child for an hour every day, you aren't prepared to have children." I agree with that. I also believe that if you aren't prepared to protect your teens from themselves, then you shouldn't have them. I had a high school friend whose mother convinced us all that she knew where we were at all times. We'd come home from the movies and say "My friend Ella saw you getting gas at the gas station. She said you guys were goofing around and being loud, and you drive really quickly out of the station." Or after a trip to the mall we'd hear "Earl next door said he saw you guys in a clothing store today. What did I tell you about being nice to store employess?" Did her friends really happen to run into her son and his buddies every time he went out? No. She made it all up. But I can tell you that her son was always on his best behavior in public because he didn't want to hear it from mama when he got home.

 

[miraclesrule]

Personally, I don't think that a parent needs to provide all the options to prevent pregnancy. It would be naive of any parent to believe that withholding that type of information would prevent the teen from finding out about it through a variety of other sources. Unless the family is completely sheltered from contact with the outside world, they are going to learn about birth control from fellow students, the media, the internet, other family members. We don't exactly live inside a bubble.

However, if a parent goes beyond withholding and provides absolutely misleading or outright deceptive information on forms of birth control other than abstinence, then they risk losing the respect of their children in the future. If a parent believes that alienating her child in the future is worth that risk...meh, then that's their choice. Personally, there is nothing in the world that is worth more than my child respecting me as a parent once they mature and have the benefit of hindsight.

 

[beebrisk]

Date: 2/21/2009 2:42:49 PM
Author: miraclesrule
Personally, I don''t think that a parent needs to provide all the options to prevent pregnancy. It would be naive of any parent to believe that withholding that type of information would prevent the teen from finding out about it through a variety of other sources. Unless the family is completely sheltered from contact with the outside world, they are going to learn about birth control from fellow students, the media, the internet, other family members. We don''t exactly live inside a bubble.


However, if a parent goes beyond withholding and provides absolutely misleading or outright deceptive information on forms of birth control other than abstinence, then they risk losing the respect of their children in the future. If a parent believes that alienating her child in the future is worth that risk...meh, then that''s their choice. Personally, there is nothing in the world that is worth more then my child respecting me as a parent once they mature and have the benefit of hindsight.

I don''t think anyone here is against a discussion about BC. I don''t think anyone here is naive enough to think their kids are not going to get that information in school, from friends, on TV.

And nobody is talking about keeping kids in a bubble and offering misleading information. I''m not really sure where or how you gleaned that.

But if teaching them some moral imperatives is risking their "respect", then I''m willing to go there.

Teaching your kid right from wrong and "earning" their respect are not mutually exclusive concepts. In fact, I think caring enough to pass your wisdom down to them is a pathway to respect.

 

[miraclesrule]

beebrisk,

I don't think the majority of consenting sex can be easily classified as either "right" or "wrong". That is personal moral judgement. And by personal, I mean that it is a personal choice for an individual, not their family or society. I am not talking about "criminal" or even "cheating" activities. I am talking about individual standards of personal morality and responsible action.

In my opinion, parents and/or educational opportunities should be used to focus on the human body. How it works, and how preganancy occurs. Most parents just do not go there, especially in clinically graphic detail. Most people know more about how a dishwasher, a car, a toaster or an oven works, than they do about their own bodies.

In my opinion, focus should be on real risks... not hysteria, religious, or personal opinion. Factual risks to one's health, prosperity, and the pursuit of life goals and the obstacles that result from poor choices are rarely explored among families. There is too much of a "don't ask, don't tell" mentality that still persists from the past when such things just weren't discussed. This isn't limited to teen sex.

Except for several people in this thread, folks rarely care to delve into a topic deeply enough to explore root causes. What is the root causes/s of teens engaging in unprotected sex?

Until society commits to explorng the answers to that question openly and honestly...which by the way is better articulated among the teens themselves if we listen well enough, society will never reach a consensus on how to better prevent abortion and teen pregnancy.

 

[beebrisk]

Date: 2/21/2009 3:34:39 PM
Author: miraclesrule
beebrisk,


I don''t think the majority of consenting sex can be easily classified as either ''right'' or ''wrong''. That is personal moral judgement. And by personal, I mean that it is a personal choice for an individual, not their family or society. I am not talking about ''criminal'' or even ''cheating'' activities. I am talking about individual standards of personal morality and responsible action.


In my opinion, parents and/or educational opportunities should be used to focus on the human body. How it works, and how preganancy occurs. Most parents just do not go there, especially in clinically graphic detail. Most people know more about how a dishwasher, a car, a toaster or an oven works, than they do about their own bodies.


In my opinion, focus should be on real risks... not hysteria, religious, or personal opinion. Factual risks to one''s health, prosperity, and the pursuit of life goals and the obstacles that result from poor choices are rarely explored among families. There is too much of a ''don''t ask, don''t tell'' mentality that still persists from the past when such things just weren''t discussed. This Butisn''t limited to teen sex.


Except for several people in this thread, folks rarely care to delve into a topic deeply enough to explore root causes. What is the root causes/s of teens engaging in unprotected sex?


Until society commits to explorng the answers to that question openly and honestly...which by the way is better articulated among the teens themselves if we listen well enough, society will never reach a consensus on how to better prevent abortion and teen pregnancy.

Looking at the issue through a relativistic point of view, then yes, you are right. There''s no right and no wrong. But then you''d have to apply that standard (or lack thereof) to every other moral, ethical, human issue in the world. That''s a scary prospect.

Personally when it comes to the health and well being of kids, I have no problem making a moral determination that even "consenting" sex between two teenagers is just flat-out wrong. And it''s wrong because it''s destructive and we all know what the outcome can be--and often is. These are determinations parents must make every day, whether it''s teaching a 4 year old not to play with matches, or telling a 14 year old that it''s wrong to risk disease and or pregnancy when you know very well that they are not prepared emotionally, physically and mentally to handle the devastation it causes. I want to protect my child at all costs, not leave it up to her own "moral judgement". That is not only my right, but it is my ultimate responsibility as a parent! God help us if we start to rely on the judgement of most teenagers! We are the adults here and hopefully have garnered some wisdom along the way. We have the obligation to teach our kids right from wrong and NOT leave this issue up to the "moral standards" of a 16 year old.

As for the root cause of teen sex? Well, I think we all know WHY teens have it. But in today''s world with the lines between right and wrong fading, with absolute truths being denied, we can''t expect our kids to have any qualms about it. After all, everything surrounding them promotes--and celebrates--the behavior and parents are left feeling helpless.

I brought it up before, but I think it''s a great illustration of how base our culture has become. Brittney Spear''s new record is called If U Seek Amy. (and we all have a pretty good idea of the average age of the Brittney record buyer, right??) I was a teen back in the Jimmy Carter years. That may seem like long ago to some, but really it''s just a blip in time. A record like that would have been absolutely unthinkable. And Ms. Spears would have been shamed out of the business. Actually, no label would have touched that song to begin with, because even back then we still had some standards of decency. We have come so far so fast that we barely see it and our kids are suffering because of it.

You fill a kid up with krap like that and you expect them to comport themselves responsibly? There''s no way to shelter kids from this stuff. It''s impossible. So the only thing a parent has left is to show their kids there''s another, safer way to live. Heaven help the child whose parents offer no counterpoint to the rot their kids are fed on a daily basis.

If you want to cut down on teen pregnancy and disease, the culture has to stop promoting drivel and send a different message to our kids. Dare I say the "right" message?

 

[miraclesrule]

I would tend to agree with you, but then again, I think it''s ridiculous the way we allow the media promotion of sex vs. violence. In fact, most of it goes together. Loving sex and or female anatomy is rarely allowed to be shown or portrayed in it''s inherent value.

Can''t show a picture of a women breastfeeding or being a wet nurse- check!
Can''t show a picure of a women''s breast but can show men''s-check!
Can''t show an unblurred picture of a baby crowning-check!

Can show people being cruel and violent to each other for the most random things-check, check, and triple dog check!

I hate to change the subject, and we shouldn''t, but food for thought...if Michael Phelps had been sporting a gun or doing shots of tequila would Kellogg''s have pulled him from the box? No, of course not.

America needs to get real about a lot of things...first and foremost, that our own inclination to "protect" everyone by imposing ridiculous values and setting up nonviable social systems in the pursuit of money and control will never create a more mature, wise, or less violent society.

So back to the original topic. If you do know the many reasons that teens engage in unprotected sex, can you list them for me? I honestly only know a few.

 

[steph72276]

As others have stated, it comes down to parenting. No, you can''t be with your child all the time, and no you can''t stop them from having sex if they really want to. But you can get to know the friends they hang out with, find out where they are going, who will be there, if parents will be at the house with them, etc. I won''t be able to stop my son from making bad decisions, but I hope to give him the ability to think before he acts. Yes, we should tell our children the options out there, but we should also tell them the truth of the matter is that birth control fails sometimes. I sure didn''t want to leave my future up to a 16 year old boy fumbling around in the dark to use a condom. So I didn''t put myself in this situation. We have to give our children the knowledge and the confidence to do the right thing. We have to let them know there are consequences to actions and if they decide to engage in adult activity, then they have to be prepared to take care of a child that might result from those actions.

 

[vespergirl]

I disagree with the assumption on this board that sex is always bad for teenagers. I have a high sex drive, and decided when I wanted to lose my virginity as a teenager. I was physically and emotionally prepared for it, and it was a wonderful experience. I was raised by Catholic immigrants and my mother was a control freak. The only thing that she ever told me was "you will not have sex ... or else." I will also note that my mother & grandmother were raised with such repressed sexulaity that they always told me that they hated sex and that it was a part of life that they only tolerated - not enjoyed.

When I was in a secure and committed relationship, and not being pressured to have sex, by the way, I went to my Dr. and asked for birth control pills, and my boyfriend provided condoms. We had a wonderful, monogamous relationship for 3 years until I broke up with him when I left for college.

And just so you know, I''m not an irresponsible person who makes bad decisions. I was raised in an affluent suburb in a Republican conservative Catholic family. My school had me skip a grade after testing my IQ, and I was asked to participate in an intellectual talent search in the 7th grade where they had us students take the SAT and compared the scores to that of high school students. I graduated with honors, and went to an excellect private university and had a successful career. I always had happy and fulfilling monogamous relationships, and always used birth control.

I think it''s really sexist that many people on here assume that girls are being pressured into having sex, and that they cannot handle it or aren''t ready for it. I think that maturity and readiness differ between individuals. Even though I was ready for sex at a young age, there are many women that I know now in our 30s that still bad bad decisions when it comes to sex. But I do resent the idea that "bad kids have sex" - I think that there are plenty of stupid kids who have sex, like Bristol Palin, and deal with the consequences. But not all teenagers handle themselves as badly as her and her boyfriend.

 

[steph72276]

I never though of sex as being "bad", but the results could have been a bad thing for my future. I would have never considered abortion as an option, so if birth control failed, then all of my college/future plans would have been put on hold, so it was never worth the risk for me.

 

[miraclesrule]

Thank you vespergirl.

I was wondering when and if anyone who had teenage sex was going to come up to bat.

Most people know the way I was raised and it was a study in contrasts. I got pregnant at 18, (the first time I actually had intercourse), and was a single mother at 19. However, I am more responsible, self-sufficient, emotionally and physically healthy, than my more "traditional" siblings. Was it easy? Nope. Was it "wrong" "bad"? Nope, it is was it is.

It''s another reason that I dislike sweeping generalizations.

I think the aspect of the Palin situation that most troubles me is the hypocrisy, but I love the irony.