Blue Lab Grown Diamonds- boron?

[DejaWiz]

Here's the comment I can see from the preliminary report....

Additional growth remnants are not shown. This is a man-made diamond produced by HPHT (High Pressure High Temperature) growth process. No evidence of treatment was detected.

HPHT - check
No evidence of PGT - check
...that, sort of like deciphering code, tells me that it is indeed a boron blue.
Whether intentional (grown to be a fancy light blue) or not (nuance from an attempt to be grown colorless) remains a secret with the grower.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Whether intentional (grown to be a fancy light blue) or not (nuance from an attempt to be grown colorless) remains a secret with the grower.

Actually not....I got this stone from an actual grower- not a dealer/trader.
The grower specifically told me the stones were unintentionally blue ( they were trying to grow D color)- and they were discounted quite generously due to the blue.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Soo then.. this answers the original question that started this thread...

Not really....we do now know that it's possible to get GIA to grade a stone "Fancy Light Blue" HPHT with no post growth treatment.
Is it possible to get to "Fancy Blue" using whatever happened to this stone, except more so?
I don't see evidence of that...yet.....

 

[DejaWiz]

Actually not....I got this stone from an actual grower- not a dealer/trader.
The grower specifically told me the stones were unintentionally blue ( they were trying to grow D color)- and they were discounted quite generously due to the blue.

David, did I miss that in the thread somewhere?
The only info I was going off of was your opening post:

"I had an interesting visit yesterday- from a dealer of Lab Grown Diamonds.
We've purchased a bunch of colorless rounds from the guy.
I believe him to be trustworthy in regards to the goods he carries.....

Yesterday he mentioned he had some extra cheap colorless rounds- but they were a bit blue.
My ears perked up!
What was the reason?
His explanation: the goods were polished from Chinese grown rough- and due to seasonal climate issues, the rough came out with a blue tint.
It is very slight- I'll see if I can capture the color in a picture.
Is he correct?
Again, I trust the guy, but I would not be comfortable guaranteeing his answer.....but....

1) the goods are slightly blue
2) they are substantially less expensive than the colorless goods he's showed us ( about 30% less)- he claimed the tint made the rough cheaper."

 

[Rockdiamond]

It certainly has been a long strange trip......and I too need to look back to see all we've discussed...but the main point- that the faint blue stones are unintentionally grown- at least the ones I've seen...nothing about that has changed.....

 

[Rockdiamond]

Cut to the chase.
I was wrong....well partially wrong.

In general, the "blue nuance" stones are less costly than colorless. My speculation about it being an accident, and the price seems to bear that out.
But, there are companies using Boron to achive the color with no post growth treatments.
It's rare, in relation to the vast majority of blues on the market, which are treated post growth, generally irradiated.

Live and learn- and the discussion has been amazing....

 

[Karl_K]

Cut to the chase.
I was wrong....well partially wrong.

In general, the "blue nuance" stones are less costly than colorless. My speculation about it being an accident, and the price seems to bear that out.
But, there are companies using Boron to achive the color with no post growth treatments.
It's rare, in relation to the vast majority of blues on the market, which are treated post growth, generally irradiated.

Live and learn- and the discussion has been amazing....

That is what I said lol.
The cvd nuked stones have taken over the blue market but there are still some hpht boron blues around.

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

Is there any reason for a consumer to prefer a nuked CVD over a hpht boron blue?

How can we tell the difference between a hput boron blue versus a natural blue, assuming there are not a lot of metal inclusions/phosphorescence?

 

[Malha777]

Hi everyone! I have a question about how the Lgd with blue tint will perform.
As per your experience, a diamond that was noted to be faint blue in the certificate, would be affected negatively in any way?
Less brilliance?
Less scintillation?
Less fire?
Dull?
Hazy?

I’m very curious to hear about your real life experience!
This topic has been amazing, thanks everyone!

 

[Rockdiamond]

The cvd nuked stones have taken over the blue market but there are still some hpht boron blues around.

Actually the irradiated stones were always more prevalent. So it’s not like they “took over”…. They were already in charge
And the methods of using Boron to make blue diamonds are far from perfect….. stones made blue by Boron are a tiny percentage of blues on the market.

 

[elle_chris]

Actually the irradiated stones were always more prevalent. So it’s not like they “took over”…. They were already in charge
And the methods of using Boron to make blue diamonds are far from perfect….. stones made blue by Boron are a tiny percentage of blues on the market.

That only applies to natural diamonds, but @Karl_K is talking about synthetic blues.

As far as I know, Blue HPHT stones were around long before CVD Blues which require PGT to get their color. So years ago, there were no CVD Blues around, only HPHT Blues.

 

[Rockdiamond]

That only applies to natural diamonds, but @Karl_K is talking about synthetic blues.

As far as I know, Blue HPHT stones were around long before CVD Blues which require PGT to get their color. So years ago, there were no CVD Blues around, only HPHT Blues.

I only have about a year of experience with Lab Grown Diamonds. But during that year, I’ve been quite active and specially in Fancy Colors.
To answer my initial question, I found a grower who’s used Boron. But he’s by no means “average”…..I believe he’s experimenting and using methods others aren’t.
Based on my experience over the past year- and consulting with this grower… I do believe the vast majority of blue Lab Grown diamonds currently on the market , that are deeper than light blue, are irradiated.

 

[Karl_K]

That only applies to natural diamonds, but @Karl_K is talking about synthetic blues.

As far as I know, Blue HPHT stones were around long before CVD Blues which require PGT to get their color. So years ago, there were no CVD Blues around, only HPHT Blues.

correct.
That was once a big advertising point for blue mmd, no nuke blues at affordable prices.

I do agree the vast majority of blues on the market today are nuked cvd.

 

[elle_chris]

correct.
That was once a big advertising point for blue mmd, no nuke blues at affordable prices.

I do agree the vast majority of blues on the market today are nuked cvd.

Yep. Whenever I look at synthetic blues these days, most have that same Teal Blue color that irradiated naturals have. To me that's the telltale sign of a CVD Blue.

 

[Karl_K]

Yep. Whenever I look at synthetic blues these days, most have that same Teal Blue color that irradiated naturals have. To me that's the telltale sign of a CVD Blue.

There is a way they are using that nukes then annealing that makes them a more natural looking blue.
So if no nuke is important to you the color is not a good indication anymore.
I like the teal blue so its not a big deal to me as long as its disclosed.

 

[Rockdiamond]

And now that I've seen some "As grown" blue LGD's...
They're really not necessarily...pretty....

There is a way they are using that nukes then annealing that makes them a more natural looking blue.

This is key.....things are moving quickly....multiple methods combine to produce color. So it's not either or, in many cases....of course, an "As grown" comment negates all that...
And I'm not expecting a lot in the way of disclosure....

 

[Karl_K]

And I'm not expecting a lot in the way of disclosure....

Which opens a new debate.
Its a manufactured product so where does manufacturing end and treatments begin?
Right now the answer seems to be after it is initially grown but will that last?
Do you know all the steps the wrench you used to turn a bolt went through?
Do you know all the steps the glass in your window went through?
Do you even care as long as it does the job?

 

[elle_chris]

There is a way they are using that nukes then annealing that makes them a more natural looking blue.
So if no nuke is important to you the color is not a good indication anymore.
I like the teal blue so its not a big deal to me as long as its disclosed.

I'm not really in the market for a Blue at the moment, still haven't set my old HPHT Blue.
But I'm always looking and noticing it's harder to find Blues in the color range I prefer.

 

[elle_chris]

Which opens a new debate.
Its a manufactured product so where does manufacturing end and treatments begin?
Right now the answer seems to be after it is initially grown but will that last?
Do you know all the steps the wrench you used to turn a bolt went through?
Do you know all the steps the glass in your window went through?
Do you even care as long as it does the job?

Full disclosure: I have nothing against Lab diamonds, but I still prefer natural.
That would not stop me from getting a synthetic if I couldn't afford a natural, hence why I got Blue lab.
But to me, it is important that there be no post growth treatment. Being synthetic doesn't mean I want it to undergo numerous processes before it becomes a gem quality diamond. I still want as little processing as possible. It feels more "natural" to me that way. And yes, I understand the irony in my last sentence.

But I'm thinking most people don't care as long as the end result is something pretty and shiny.

 

[DejaWiz]

But to me, it is important that there be no post growth treatment. Being synthetic doesn't mean I want it to undergo numerous processes before it becomes a gem quality diamond. I still want as little processing as possible. It feels more "natural" to me that way.

This is also how I view LGDs.
Clarity/color enhancing treatment of natural diamonds is frowned upon and the usual advice is to stay away from such diamonds, so I am also going to hold that viewpoint towards LGDs. Note: this applies to my view of LGDs graded on the "normal" color scale, not fancy colors.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Clarity/color enhancing treatment of natural diamonds is frowned upon and the usual advice is to stay away from such diamonds, so I am also going to hold that viewpoint towards LGDs.

interesting...and definitely part of the "learning curve" for diamond lovers.
But I don't think it's quite as simple....
For example- when comparing two diamonds physically ...
Is the actual stone more important or the pedigree regarding post growth treatment?
If comparing a GIA graded E color with post growth treatments to an IGI graded E that looks more like a G, yet no post growth treatments.... see, it is making us figure this stuff out!

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

So what’s this? Seeing similar on Etsy too.

Lab-Created 0.76 Carat round diamond

This round cut 0.76 carat Lab-Created Fancy Vivid Blue color vs1 clarity has a diamond grading report from IGI

www.jamesallen.com

 

[DejaWiz]

So what’s this? Seeing similar on Etsy too.

Lab-Created 0.76 Carat round diamond

This round cut 0.76 carat Lab-Created Fancy Vivid Blue color vs1 clarity has a diamond grading report from IGI

www.jamesallen.com

Looks no different than many IGI E-F graded diamonds that have undisclosed blue nuance.

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

Looks no different than many IGI E-F graded diamonds that have undisclosed blue nuance.

Blame those of us who said we liked the effect.

 

[Obscura]

So what’s this? Seeing similar on Etsy too.

Lab-Created 0.76 Carat round diamond

This round cut 0.76 carat Lab-Created Fancy Vivid Blue color vs1 clarity has a diamond grading report from IGI

www.jamesallen.com

Looks like a wrong video. When you click on the lab report it shows a stark blue stone image, and "indications of post growth treatment" is listed on the report notes.

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

Bumping the thread due to new discussions.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fancy-blue-lab-diamonds.281391/#post-5307606

Any geeky people willing to weigh in on the cause of different overtones and saturations we are seeing?