Beware of image theft

[surfgirl]

Andrey, thanks for weighing in on this...

 

[CaptAubrey]

Date: 3/10/2008 10:48:03 AM
Author: LegacyGirl
Google search for idonowidont


This thread is #6


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=idonowidont

All the more reason for them to get over here and join in.

My guess is that they''re still trying to decide how to respond so as to best limit the damage, and at the same time not cause problems with their current sellers.

 

[MaraO]

Hi, I am Mara Opperman, the CEO and co-founder of idonowidont.com (IDNID). I was forwarded this thread last night from Customer Care. I apologize for any perceived delay in our attention to your emails.

We at IDNID take fraud, image theft and misrepresentation very seriously and will not tolerate it on our site. We have built our entire site based on our own experiences and our reputation comes from our safety and security processes. We are an intermediary for all auctions and can guarantee the goods that are sold on the site – simply because we have a GIA-certified gemologist verify all jewelry when we receive the items after the close of an auction.

I was extremely upset and embarrassed to find out about the situation that you identified as having occurred on our site. And I would like to sincerely apologize to everyone who has been affected by this unethical seller activity.

In response to your emails, we are immediately taking the following actions:
1. We have begun taking down all pictures for which our users do not hold the copyright.
In doing so now and in the future, we will rely on the help of parties like you to inform us when an IDNID user is violating your copyright on our site.

2. We have removed the ability for sellers to post images using URLs, which we have found is an easy way to misuse copyrighted materials. We have also removed the video posting functionality for this reason.

3. We will be re-writing and re-positioning the policies which are currently published on our site. Currently, our policies require users to agree not to engage in illegal activity including falsification of merchandise, but clearly this needs to be reiterated and reinforced.

I really want to thank you all for bringing this to our attention. I had never heard of PriceScope until yesterday, and I can see you are a very active and responsible community. If you have any suggestions on how to create a safer environment for our users, I would love to hear them. Again, I sincerely apologize and will do my best to be proactive in the case this occurs in the future.



Sincerely,
Mara Opperman

 

[Nicrez]

Just to clarify:

Harriet told me that my ring was sighted on an E-Bay page, and she sent me the link, but it was NOT my ring, nor were the pcitures seemingly mine either (from what they had posted when I looked). Now the page seems inactive and not working.

My stone is more rectangular slightly, and is an E VVS2, Original branded Radiant. That one seemed more square and the facets patterns were off...

But thank you all for being so vigilant about these things! I am glad Harriet alerted me either way...

ETA: Happy to report that My ring (as pictured in my thread The Little Radiant That Could) has never been for sale on this site or any other, and is very happy in it's home with me.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 3/10/2008 4:13:31 PM
Author: MaraO

We are an intermediary for all auctions and can guarantee the goods that are sold on the site simply because we have a GIA-certified gemologist verify all jewelry when we receive the items after the close of an auction.

Thank you for your response, Mara. One question which I have had, and which I had wanted to ask the vendors who appeared to be using photos of Pricescope members'' rings, was, "Is the photograph you posted an actual image of the item you have for sale?" I would still like to know that.

Now you say that you always have a GIA-certified gemologist verify jewelry. Is he or she a Graduate Gemologist or has s/he received some other certificate from GIA? What is it that s/he "verifies"?

Thank you for your time.

Deborah

 

[enbcfsobe]

I am glad that someone from this site finally responded in this forum, but I think many of us will still be troubled by the fact that while a gemologist is supposedly guaranteeing the authenticity of all rings sold through this site, it took the vigilance of non-jeweler members of this community to figure out that the pictures are not pictures of the rings that are actually being sold, and that pictures within the same listing are not pictures of the same ring. If their gemologist cannot figure this out, what is their guarantee worth??

ETA: AGBF, GMTA!
Also, how about being proactive and reporting this scam artist to her probation officer??

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 3/10/2008 4:37:03 PM
Author: enbcfsobe
I am glad that someone from this site finally responded in this forum, but I think many of us will still be troubled by the fact that while a gemologist is supposedly guaranteeing the authenticity of all rings sold through this site, it took the vigilance of non-jeweler members of this community to figure out that the pictures are not pictures of the rings that are actually being sold, and that pictures within the same listing are not pictures of the same ring. If their gemologist cannot figure this out, what is their guarantee worth??

ETA: AGBF, GMTA!
Also, how about being proactive and reporting this scam artist to her probation officer??

Ditto, well said.

I also hope this scam artist''s probabtion officer is contacted.

 

[LegacyGirl]

Date: 3/10/2008 4:37:03 PM
Author: enbcfsobe
I am glad that someone from this site finally responded in this forum, but I think many of us will still be troubled by the fact that while a gemologist is supposedly guaranteeing the authenticity of all rings sold through this site, it took the vigilance of non-jeweler members of this community to figure out that the pictures are not pictures of the rings that are actually being sold, and that pictures within the same listing are not pictures of the same ring. If their gemologist cannot figure this out, what is their guarantee worth??

ETA: AGBF, GMTA!
Also, how about being proactive and reporting this scam artist to her probation officer??

Exactly what I was going to say!

 

[beau13]

I just want to add that when people like PS members post pics (of themselves,their family, their jewelry, personal belongings), it''s VERY easy for others to "steal" those photos and do what they please with them. Unfortunately the internet, and public forums such as this one, is just that... PUBLIC! Maybe sites like Pricescope, could set up the site so that only members can see the pics, and read posts...however, it is not set up this way, so anyone can read and view what is going on here! If you don''t want your pics to fall into the wrong hands, then don''t post them. I have had many of my ring pics "stolen", "borrowed"..etc...and I don''t make a big deal of it...because I know that is the risk I take when I post a photo! I don''t post photos of my children or husband for everyone to view because I respect their privacy, and god knows where those pics (especially of chidren) could end up being displayed on the internet. Many strange individuals out there ! Just something to think about!

 

[CaptAubrey]

Date: 3/10/2008 4:37:03 PM
Author: enbcfsobe
I am glad that someone from this site finally responded in this forum, but I think many of us will still be troubled by the fact that while a gemologist is supposedly guaranteeing the authenticity of all rings sold through this site, it took the vigilance of non-jeweler members of this community to figure out that the pictures are not pictures of the rings that are actually being sold, and that pictures within the same listing are not pictures of the same ring. If their gemologist cannot figure this out, what is their guarantee worth??

Keep in mind that we don''t know yet whether this person actually sold anything that was offered under the purloined photos. It''s possible that we caught this thing before it went very far. If so, their gemologist may not have had the chance to do any comparisons.

To MaraO:

The above notwithstanding, it would be a good idea to have your gemologist check the auction listings and compare the offering to the jewel, if s/he isn''t doing that already.

Also, the term "GIA certified" with respect to gemologists or diamonds is frowned up, both by GIA and much of the community, though it''s often used anyway. The correct term is "GG," "GIA Graduate Gemologist" or similar terminology.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 3/10/2008 8:36:58 PM
Author: CaptAubrey

Also, the term ''GIA certified'' with respect to gemologists or diamonds is frowned up, both by GIA and much of the community, though it''s often used anyway. The correct term is ''GG,'' ''GIA Graduate Gemologist'' or similar terminology.

Isn''t that what I just said? OK, so I wasn''t as clear as you were, ''squire. Do you make a living parsing words or something?

Deb, miffed

 

[arjunajane]

Mara O,
Thankyou for taking the time to respond here. I personally and I think a number of other ppl would like to enquire if any authorities have been contacted about the particular seller''s activites? I think there is alot of concern considering her past record.If you''re not aware, there is some info further back in this thread. .Also, has IDNID warned the other sites where she supposedly sells?
Regards
AJ

 

[Kissmark]

Off topic but what is SMTR? tia

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 3/11/2008 12:50:29 AM
Author: Kissmark
Off topic but what is SMTR? tia

Show me the ring. One forum below RT.

 

[sera]

Date: 3/10/2008 8:36:58 PM
Author: CaptAubrey

Date: 3/10/2008 4:37:03 PM
Author: enbcfsobe
I am glad that someone from this site finally responded in this forum, but I think many of us will still be troubled by the fact that while a gemologist is supposedly guaranteeing the authenticity of all rings sold through this site, it took the vigilance of non-jeweler members of this community to figure out that the pictures are not pictures of the rings that are actually being sold, and that pictures within the same listing are not pictures of the same ring. If their gemologist cannot figure this out, what is their guarantee worth??

Keep in mind that we don't know yet whether this person actually sold anything that was offered under the purloined photos. It's possible that we caught this thing before it went very far. If so, their gemologist may not have had the chance to do any comparisons.

To MaraO:

The above notwithstanding, it would be a good idea to have your gemologist check the auction listings and compare the offering to the jewel, if s/he isn't doing that already.

Also, the term 'GIA certified' with respect to gemologists or diamonds is frowned up, both by GIA and much of the community, though it's often used anyway. The correct term is 'GG,' 'GIA Graduate Gemologist' or similar terminology.

That's what I was thinking as well... and was hoping that because she was posting pics that didn't match any item she may or may not have had, that was an indication that nothing had sold and been verified (or not as the case may be).

I'm glad, as well, to see a response from IDNID and hope to hear the authorities (and other sites) have been contacted so nobody else becomes one of her victims.

Beau posted a good reminder to us... we don't know who is taking our photos or for what purpose. A friend of mine had her photo stolen and someone was using it as if it were themself. Creepy. Ya never know who is lurking, so be careful.

ETA: Though... as OCD as PSers are... odds are against the thieves that they will remain undetected... PSers never forget a bling )and this thread is case in point).

 

[MaraO]

Once again, I can only apologize about the seller practices on our site and make our best effort to ensure that they are not misrepresenting merchandise. Unlike mainstream auction sites, our site verifies the jewelry that is sold on the site. Since it seems that there are still questions about what that means, I would like to explain.

Sellers post rings on our site with descriptions and pictures of the items for sale. Once an auction has successfully closed, the seller sends us the ring and the buyer sends us their money, which we hold in escrow until our gemologist verifies the seller''s ring against the certificate that they send.

What you and the other posters on PS have raised is that some sellers are obviously trying to attach visuals to rings that they don''t have pictures for. While a lot of us who are familiar with best web practices might be shocked, I suppose that if you are a seller that does not have a digital camera or are not familiar with the DMCA, taking a picture from another website probably seems harmless. It is IDNID''s responsibility to do a better job educating our users, clearly.

However, I can assure you that we are a responsible business. Our gemologist is not reviewing our site to ensure that posts are accurate - unlike eBay, we ensure that erroneous postings never become an issue for a buyer - specifically because neither party exchanges money or items directly.

We have been in operation since January 2007. We have sold hundreds of rings and we have not had a complaint until now. We have had a few issues with a ring not matching its certification, which of course we identified before the buyer lost any time or money.

As I mentioned before, we are doing our best to address the problem you have all identified. I hope that my response helps to answer some of the questions you are raising about our business practices.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/11/2008 12:34:10 PM
Author: MaraO

Sellers post rings on our site with descriptions and pictures of the items for sale. Once an auction has successfully closed, the seller sends us the ring and the buyer sends us their money, which we hold in escrow until our gemologist verifies the seller's ring against the certificate that they send.

What we are asking it that from this day forward the ring not only be verified against the cert. but the pictures and discription the seller uploaded.

my 2c.
When you have someone who is clearly a dealer by the number of items posted a background check should be done. A DNB is cheap and a BBB check is free.
Bad sellers tarnish your reputation too.

 

[enbcfsobe]

a simple google search would have done it in this case.

 

[CaptAubrey]

Date: 3/11/2008 12:46:37 PM
Author: strmrdr
What we are asking it that from this day forward the ring not only be verified against the cert. but the pictures and discription the seller uploaded.

As I said, this would seem like a simple and wise thing to be doing, given that IDNID''s business model is built around verifying the seller''s representations.


A further note for the mods: Given the way this thread has evolved, that we''ve determined that the guilty party was a third-party seller and not IDNID, and that they are now here making a good-faith effort to explain themselves, I think it would be fair to change the thread title to something more neutral. A lot of people who might pull this thread up on a search aren''t going to have the stamina to get to the 9th page.

 

[Maisie]

Date: 3/10/2008 6:23:33 PM
Author: beau13
I just want to add that when people like PS members post pics (of themselves,their family, their jewelry, personal belongings), it''s VERY easy for others to ''steal'' those photos and do what they please with them. Unfortunately the internet, and public forums such as this one, is just that... PUBLIC! Maybe sites like Pricescope, could set up the site so that only members can see the pics, and read posts...however, it is not set up this way, so anyone can read and view what is going on here! If you don''t want your pics to fall into the wrong hands, then don''t post them. I have had many of my ring pics ''stolen'', ''borrowed''..etc...and I don''t make a big deal of it...because I know that is the risk I take when I post a photo! I don''t post photos of my children or husband for everyone to view because I respect their privacy, and god knows where those pics (especially of chidren) could end up being displayed on the internet. Many strange individuals out there ! Just something to think about!

If someone is bad enough to take someone elses ring photos from here, surely having to sign up for membership won''t stop them.
Perhaps if you have suggestions as to how PS can be made more secure, you could drop an email to the Moderator.

There are so many lurkers who use PS to learn about diamonds, they wouldn''t be able to do that if it was members only.

I have posted family pictures before. I felt ok about it as nobody knows where I live. PS feels annoymous enough for me to be happy enough to share with other members.

 

[Stephanie]

Date: 3/11/2008 2:23:45 PM
Author: CaptAubrey

Date: 3/11/2008 12:46:37 PM
Author: strmrdr
What we are asking it that from this day forward the ring not only be verified against the cert. but the pictures and discription the seller uploaded.

As I said, this would seem like a simple and wise thing to be doing, given that IDNID's business model is built around verifying the seller's representations.


A further note for the mods: Given the way this thread has evolved, that we've determined that the guilty party was a third-party seller and not IDNID, and that they are now here making a good-faith effort to explain themselves, I think it would be fair to change the thread title to something more neutral. A lot of people who might pull this thread up on a search aren't going to have the stamina to get to the 9th page.

Ha!

Thank you, Mara O. for explaining your business practices. While the privacy/copyright issue is ultimately in the hands of the people whose photos were used, I agree that you should contact authorities if you feel that would be best and prevent the seller from doing such things again.

And thanks to Andrey for weighing in on the picture issue & who doesn't ruin our bling pics with watermarks! It just wouldn't be the same...

 

[idreamofice]

MaraO - I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I do not regret starting this thread because I feel that due to it we have uncovered many "stolen" photos from the seller in question. BUT I feel I DO owe IDNID an apology for the title of this thread.

I can''t seem to edit the title or my original post.....Is there a way to do this?

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 3/11/2008 3:50:56 PM
Author: idreamofice


MaraO - I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I do not regret starting this thread because I feel that due to it we have uncovered many ''stolen'' photos from the seller in question. BUT I feel I DO owe IDNID an apology for the title of this thread.


I can''t seem to edit the title or my original post.....Is there a way to do this?

You can email Andrey and he can change it.

 

[sillysimms]

I had sent an email to the "contact" page on the seller''s website at diamonddirectbuy several weeks ago and just got a response:

"Hello
I am a broker and do not stock my jewlery I offer great deals because I
sell direct.
the photos you are refering to are used NOT as bait BUT an example what a
ring will look like. Once you put any diamond into a setting of your
choice they all end up looking thesame. The photos are a catalog.

Just like if you get a catalog in the mail and go to the store to purchase
the ring YOU ARE NOT BUYING THE ACTUAL ONE from the PHOTO just one LIKE
IT!

I have my website info listed as well .As information that I have to check
availability of a particular diamond before anyone buys it. So people know
that I am not a individual they can see all my listings and a lot of loose
diamond photos are stock photos..... what is wrong with that?

So I really do not understand your anger over this?
Was your picture one of them? they are not copyrighted and I would take
it as a complement if my ring was used as a example."

She thinks that once you put a diamond in a setting, they all look the same!!!

 

[LegacyGirl]

 

[Nicrez]

Date: 3/25/2008 3:25:30 PM
Author: sillysimms
I had sent an email to the ''contact'' page on the seller''s website at diamonddirectbuy several weeks ago and just got a response:

''Hello
I am a broker and do not stock my jewlery I offer great deals because I
sell direct.
the photos you are refering to are used NOT as bait BUT an example what a
ring will look like. Once you put any diamond into a setting of your
choice they all end up looking thesame. The photos are a catalog.

Just like if you get a catalog in the mail and go to the store to purchase
the ring YOU ARE NOT BUYING THE ACTUAL ONE from the PHOTO just one LIKE
IT!

I have my website info listed as well .As information that I have to check
availability of a particular diamond before anyone buys it. So people know
that I am not a individual they can see all my listings and a lot of loose
diamond photos are stock photos..... what is wrong with that?

So I really do not understand your anger over this?
Was your picture one of them? they are not copyrighted and I would take
it as a complement if my ring was used as a example.''

She thinks that once you put a diamond in a setting, they all look the same!!!

Wow. Using the prudence of "if it''s not MINE, don''t use it" doesn''t apply here huh? So I can locate this person''s picture on the internet, start a webpage with a fictional character and their image and it''s a compliment then? Even if the person on this webpage is described as a criminal? Ok, sounds like a plan!

Honestly, Stock photos are OK, as long as they are used in general and stated as such. Actually putting up ONE picture and the rest not having any would have made mroe sense. Why have a picture if they all look the same. Wouldn''t it be implied that if there is a general picture on the site, then the rest would follow to look alike? Why include the SAME picture on each INDIVIDUAL stone? Clearly, some people don''t deserve money, if they think selling should be done in this manner...

 

[CaptAubrey]

Date: 3/25/2008 3:25:30 PM
Author: sillysimms
I had sent an email to the ''contact'' page on the seller''s website at diamonddirectbuy several weeks ago and just got a response:


So I really do not understand your anger over this?

Was your picture one of them? they are not copyrighted and I would take

it as a complement if my ring was used as a example.''

Oh, brother.

Photographs are protected by copyright from the moment of their creation. It hasn''t been necessary to "copyright" anything (i.e., register the copyright with the Copyright Office) to secure protection for it in over 30 years. Registration is only necessary if you want to file suit or anticipate infringement and want to be able to recover statutory damages.