Asscher cut - how to choose the best cut?

[diamondseeker2006]

I would seriously nab this one if I were you. I'm a Royal Asscher owner myself...

https://m.ebay.com/itm/New-Royal-As...2697?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&_mwBanner=1

Goodness, please don't ignore acebruin's excellent recommendation! I'd absolutely contact this seller and get more close up pictures of the stone and possibly make an offer on the Royal Asscher! They are cut beautifully. Ace bought one for his wife. That stone is right in your specs and price point!

I don't see any Octavias even close to your specs or pricepoint, so I'd eliminate that idea.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I like the BN stone okay, but I wouldn't personally buy it. The table is a little too large (65 is my limit) and I'd need to see an ASET on that one.

 

[asschercut]

Oops, I think I missed acebruin's posts while I was editing mine that were made around the same time. That said, I am very wary of buying jewelry off eBay, especially for something as expensive as a ring. If only they were a reputable jeweler.

The only Octavia I can find within my budget is a 1.02ct for around $8,500, which is a bit small plus it's an I color... so you're probably right that I shouldn't even bother.

 

[asschercut]

I like the BN stone okay, but I wouldn't personally buy it. The table is a little too large (65 is my limit) and I'd need to see an ASET on that one.

How does table % factor into the diamond? What does it actually do? My knowledge of it is limited to it being the face-up portion of the rock but I don't know how that affects cut.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The one on ebay has a return policy and is being sold by a jeweler who has 100% feedback with 400+ reviews. They have a physical store. I'd read through the reviews to see if they have sold high dollar items, but I don't see buying from ebay a problem when the seller is reliable. Some of the jewelers we know here also sell some things on ebay.

But other than that, I found a stone that I think is the best yet IF you could go a little higher than $15k and if she wouldn't mind fluorescence. I happen to love it. Luckily it causes a discount in high color stones. I am tempted personally to get this stone so I am not posting it unless you are interested.

 

[asschercut]

Can we PM in this forum? If so, I'd be happy to discuss your candidate separately so that nobody snipes it. I'm aiming to stay within budget but I'm not opposed to making an exception that's worth it.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

How does table % factor into the diamond? What does it actually do? My knowledge of it is limited to it being the face-up portion of the rock but I don't know how that affects cut.

When you consider the overall look of an asscher, the steps of the crown will show more the smaller the table is. That is one of the appealing aspects of the Octavia and antique asschers. Large tables usually mean small crowns. It's sort of hard to explain unless you see them. Yoram's asschers are about the best you'll ever see. Even though he doesn't have any for sale in your specs or budget, you can learn from the beauty of his stones. Here is one that was sold recently to a PSer. Use this as a basis for comparison.

http://gemconcepts.net/boutique/beautifully-crafted-asscher-cut-diamond/

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Can we PM in this forum? If so, I'd be happy to discuss your candidate separately so that nobody snipes it. I'm aiming to stay within budget but I'm not opposed to making an exception that's worth it.

I was thinking the same thing. I have an old listing on the loupetroop.com site with the same user name.

 

[OoohShiny]

Before you commit to anything, you HAVE to contact Yoram at Gemconcepts (@diagem on here) and enquire what your budget would get you in terms of an Octavia.

They are very rare, perhaps only 60 or so in the world, and are generally cut to order (is my understanding) so there's no reason why you couldn't also undergo the same journey as @Dancing Fire did - with threads showing the rough diamond, the cutting of it, and the final product Search through DF's 'threads started' link in his profile to find them!

I can't think of anything more exciting than having Yoram find suitable rough for you and then watching an Octavia slowly develop out of it, knowing there are well under 100 in a whole world of 7billion people!

 

[SimoneDi]

Is the Octavia I suggested earlier out of budget? http://gemconcepts.net/boutique/special-octavia-cut-diamond/

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Is the Octavia I suggested earlier out of budget? http://gemconcepts.net/boutique/special-octavia-cut-diamond/

It's too small. He wants 1.5-2 cts.

Custom cutting can take months. People sometimes have to wait weeks or months before the rough is located. The diamond can't be totally guaranteed to be D-F and VS1+. If you are wanting to buy a diamond now or in the near future, you don't want to do a custom cut. There's a certain amount of risk aside from it taking a long time.

 

[JmeeMrie]

I like the BN stone okay, but I wouldn't personally buy it. The table is a little too large (65 is my limit) and I'd need to see an ASET on that one.

+1 on the table..

 

[foxinsox]

Goodness, please don't ignore acebruin's excellent recommendation! I'd absolutely contact this seller and get more close up pictures of the stone and possibly make an offer on the Royal Asscher! They are cut beautifully. Ace bought one for his wife. That stone is right in your specs and price point!

I don't see any Octavias even close to your specs or pricepoint, so I'd eliminate that idea.

Also if your other half likes Octavias, I think Royal Asschers are closer to them than any of the "standard" asschers you're looking at. This is a lovely stone. Don't let the Ebay thing put you off.

 

[Matthews1127]

I was looking at the 2.52 then quickly closed the window. There's no point getting my hopes up, let alone the missus'! I have a feeling Gem Concepts may be out of my $15,000 budget entirely if I am looking for 1.5-2.0ct.

Not necessarily. Reach out to Yoram. Tell him what you want & your budget. He’ll tell you if he can help you or not! He’s WONDERFUL to work with. Extremely helpful, and very eager to please. My DH purchased 7 Vintage Cut Asscher Diamonds for an Anniversary Band I intend to build, from Yoram, right before Christmas. They are AMAZING, and he came in under max budget!!

 

[SimoneDi]

It's too small. He wants 1.5-2 cts.

Custom cutting can take months. People sometimes have to wait weeks or months before the rough is located. The diamond can't be totally guaranteed to be D-F and VS1+. If you are wanting to buy a diamond now or in the near future, you don't want to do a custom cut. There's a certain amount of risk aside from it taking a long time.

Ah makes sense, I just saw that OP was looking into a 1ct Octavia. I agree regarding the custom cutting process, it can be long and uncertain, but if Yoram has any rough available, that may be an option. Octavias also come at a premium, so if OPs SO is open to a smaller stone, the one availabe may still be an option. Nonetheless, the asshers suggested by other PSers are also beautiful! I love the Royal Asscher on eBay!

 

[acebruin]

You can always take the Royal Asscher serial number on eBay and double check them with Mike Asscher yourself. That should eliminate any doubts you have.

 

[acebruin]

Here's my thread on Royal Asscher. I would be more than happy to take a video or two of my ring and post it for you if that will help. I also happen to own a brown Octavia that I can shoot in the same video for comparison. Granted the Octavia is a fancy colored. And the Royal Asscher is an I color.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/acebruin-leon-mege-intro.79622/

Here's an insanely dreamy video of a 7.66 carats Royal Asscher...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BaM9AoFluxd/

 

[OoohShiny]

That RA is amazing!

 

[Matthews1127]

What do you think of any of these?
Some of the facet patterns remind me of a kaleidoscope!!

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...t/1.91-carat-h-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3959368

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...t/1.71-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3477430

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...t/1.84-carat-i-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3080517

 

[JmeeMrie]

I LIKE that 1.91
The 1.71 has great windmills but are the crown facets off?
That 1.84 does have a cool kaleidoscope effect.
Good finds matthews!

 

[OoohShiny]

What do you think of any of these?
Some of the facet patterns remind me of a kaleidoscope!!

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...t/1.91-carat-h-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3959368

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...t/1.71-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3477430

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...t/1.84-carat-i-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3080517

I've only had a quick look but my initial feeling is they're all slightly lacking contrast in the centre when head-on, but the 1.91 seems to have a good 'hall of mirrors' effect, albeit with perhaps some windowing at tilt angles?

I like the faceting patterns, though, and they seem to perform well otherwise!

Good-from-all-angles asschers are definitely 'unicorn' lol

 

[Matthews1127]

I've only had a quick look but my initial feeling is they're all slightly lacking contrast in the centre when head-on, but the 1.91 seems to have a good 'hall of mirrors' effect, albeit with perhaps some windowing at tilt angles?

I like the faceting patterns, though, and they seem to perform well otherwise!

Good-from-all-angles asschers are definitely 'unicorn' lol

Agreed...even at EX Symm/Ex Pol., which all 3 are. These are the best 3 out of 6 that I found within budget & parameters. Perhaps, we need to explore other vendors?

 

[tyty333]

Did he change his parameters because last I saw they were D-F?

 

[asschercut]

Is the Octavia I suggested earlier out of budget? http://gemconcepts.net/boutique/special-octavia-cut-diamond/

Ah makes sense, I just saw that OP was looking into a 1ct Octavia. I agree regarding the custom cutting process, it can be long and uncertain, but if Yoram has any rough available, that may be an option. Octavias also come at a premium, so if OPs SO is open to a smaller stone, the one availabe may still be an option. Nonetheless, the asshers suggested by other PSers are also beautiful! I love the Royal Asscher on eBay!

Okay so the Octavia is now a top contender because she loves it - and good news, the 1.226ct is just within my budget! That means a bigger cut would exceed it, but I am definitely interested in discussing with @diagem about available options around 1.5ct and I may be able to adjust accordingly.

For now, let's assume it's a battle between the 1.78 BN (assuming I can't find better) and the 1.23 Octavia. She's happy with anything as long as it's a square emerald and is leaving it up to me to make the final decision... but after sleeping on it, I'm no closer to determining whether I should go with size or quality. The size difference is perceptible IMO, plus a 1.22ct square emerald is equivalent in face-up size to a 0.79ct round, and a 1.78ct square emerald is barely bigger than a 1.00ct round. I know it's silly but I don't want people thinking I cheaped out and got her a ring that they would judge as a "tiny" sub-1.00ct. You know how it is with some people.

As for the RA from eBay, a couple thoughts:

• Even assuming that the ring and seller are 100% legit, I'm hesitant to consider it because I am still so green about diamonds - @acebruin's RA looks amazing, but the truth is that I'd probably fail a blind test in discerning between RAs and regular square emeralds, let alone between good cuts and bad cuts (even with video review - but I appreciate the offer, acebruin!). I believe you guys when you say that the eBay find is great, but I don't yet personally understand why.
• I'd definitely have to change the setting, or ask if the seller is willing to sell me just the loose stone.
• It seems to meet my benchmarks (apart from symmetry only being VG), but we don't have the ability to view the diamond from side to side to ensure that the cut is actually good - or are all RAs assumed to be ideal cuts?
• Around $15,000 for a 2.11ct is pretty good overall, can't deny that.

 

[asschercut]

Agreed...even at EX Symm/Ex Pol., which all 3 are. These are the best 3 out of 6 that I found within budget & parameters. Perhaps, we need to explore other vendors?

@Matthews1127 @JmeeMrie @OoohShiny @tyty333 Thanks for your input and suggestions - I am indeed hoping to stick with D-F color, but color doesn't really matter if the cut isn't up to par. Personally, I still favor the 1.78 from BN as the contrast seems more lively. I am still very much open to suggestions though. I've browsed Blue Nile, James Allen, WhiteFlash, Brilliant Earth, Brilliance.com, B2CJewels (they don't really seem legit?), Good Old Gold, and Lumera, although I've mostly stuck with BN and JA because they offer side-to-side viewing.

 

[asschercut]

Update: BN said they are unable to obtain ASETs from the vendor for the 1.78. Do I want to buy a rock without being able to fully inspect it?

 

[whitewave]

Okay so the Octavia is now a top contender because she loves it - and good news, the 1.226ct is just within my budget! That means a bigger cut would exceed it, but I am definitely interested in discussing with @diagem about available options around 1.5ct and I may be able to adjust accordingly.

For now, let's assume it's a battle between the 1.78 BN (assuming I can't find better) and the 1.23 Octavia. She's happy with anything as long as it's a square emerald and is leaving it up to me to make the final decision... but after sleeping on it, I'm no closer to determining whether I should go with size or quality. The size difference is perceptible IMO, plus a 1.22ct square emerald is equivalent in face-up size to a 0.79ct round, and a 1.78ct square emerald is barely bigger than a 1.00ct round. I know it's silly but I don't want people thinking I cheaped out and got her a ring that they would judge as a "tiny" sub-1.00ct. You know how it is with some people.

As for the RA from eBay, a couple thoughts:

• Even assuming that the ring and seller are 100% legit, I'm hesitant to consider it because I am still so green about diamonds - @acebruin's RA looks amazing, but the truth is that I'd probably fail a blind test in discerning between RAs and regular square emeralds, let alone between good cuts and bad cuts (even with video review - but I appreciate the offer, acebruin!). I believe you guys when you say that the eBay find is great, but I don't yet personally understand why.
• I'd definitely have to change the setting, or ask if the seller is willing to sell me just the loose stone.
• It seems to meet my benchmarks (apart from symmetry only being VG), but we don't have the ability to view the diamond from side to side to ensure that the cut is actually good - or are all RAs assumed to be ideal cuts?
• Around $15,000 for a 2.11ct is pretty good overall, can't deny that.

Just beware that asschers face up small and I thought my 1.52 was too small for a long time. The octavia faces up even smaller. So if she wanted a minimum of a 1.5, she may very well be unhappy with the 1.23 Octavie. It will look smaller than a 1 carat round. ***** which I see you already took into consideration.

Since everyone has reservations about the 1.7 BN, I don't mean to favor it. Finding the perfect asscher is an impossibility. You have to decide what you want as the puzzle pieces come together. I took a somewhat deep (69.7 I believe) stone with thin windmills. I did buy it blind with not even a photo because of their great return policy.

 

[Matthews1127]

Update: BN said they are unable to obtain ASETs from the vendor for the 1.78. Do I want to buy a rock without being able to fully inspect it?

I* wouldn’t..,

 

[SimoneDi]

Okay so the Octavia is now a top contender because she loves it - and good news, the 1.226ct is just within my budget! That means a bigger cut would exceed it, but I am definitely interested in discussing with @diagem about available options around 1.5ct and I may be able to adjust accordingly.

For now, let's assume it's a battle between the 1.78 BN (assuming I can't find better) and the 1.23 Octavia. She's happy with anything as long as it's a square emerald and is leaving it up to me to make the final decision... but after sleeping on it, I'm no closer to determining whether I should go with size or quality. The size difference is perceptible IMO, plus a 1.22ct square emerald is equivalent in face-up size to a 0.79ct round, and a 1.78ct square emerald is barely bigger than a 1.00ct round. I know it's silly but I don't want people thinking I cheaped out and got her a ring that they would judge as a "tiny" sub-1.00ct. You know how it is with some people.

As for the RA from eBay, a couple thoughts:

• Even assuming that the ring and seller are 100% legit, I'm hesitant to consider it because I am still so green about diamonds - @acebruin's RA looks amazing, but the truth is that I'd probably fail a blind test in discerning between RAs and regular square emeralds, let alone between good cuts and bad cuts (even with video review - but I appreciate the offer, acebruin!). I believe you guys when you say that the eBay find is great, but I don't yet personally understand why.
• I'd definitely have to change the setting, or ask if the seller is willing to sell me just the loose stone.
• It seems to meet my benchmarks (apart from symmetry only being VG), but we don't have the ability to view the diamond from side to side to ensure that the cut is actually good - or are all RAs assumed to be ideal cuts?
• Around $15,000 for a 2.11ct is pretty good overall, can't deny that.

I am in love with the Octavia and having an Asscher or an Octavia cut by Yoram is pretty much a dream. I am not your SO and I cannot speak regarding how she would feel about the size, but to me 1.23 is pretty close to the initial minimum of 1.4 that you had in mind. I see performance and uniqueness as something that overrules size and the Octavia checks all the other boxes in terms of color and clarity. Does your SO like halos? A halo can boost the size nicely and provide the additional finger coverage. A friend of mine got engaged with a beautiful cushion that has edge to edge brilliance and is even slightly smaller than the Octavia at 5.8x5.8, no one has ever commented on the size only on its beautiful performance

 

[asschercut]

My SO wants a three-stone specifically, pretty much exactly like the 7.66ct that acebruin linked (and I bet she wants that size, too ), so while the main stone's size won't be accentuated on all sides, the side stones may help.

The funny thing (to me) about an Octavia is that its performance rivals that of a round, but an emerald cut is typically not about the same type of performance - it's more lowkey and elegant. If I'm focused on brilliance and fire, why wouldn't I simply pick a round (notwithstanding the uniqueness of an Octavia)?

This diamond search is starting to drive me crazy.