shape
carat
color
clarity

Anyone for a massive Old Mine Cut or two? 15ct and 26ct?!

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
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Yoram has just posted these for sale - anyone fancy some monster OMCs? :D lol


Antique diamonds come in many shapes, forms and cutting styles.

This unique offerings are both an exemplar for antique diamonds cut well over a hundred years ago. Their significant size and craftsmanship are living attestant to the fine works of specialized craftsmen of by-gone era.

Such two diamonds have with no doubt housed important jewels of their times and now we have an opportunity to offer you these two beautiful diamonds with historical significance.


A 15 carat slightly elongated Old Mine Cut diamond of yellowish tint and very good crystal, this diamond was crafted for beauty over weight retention which is by itself considered a rare even for their times.

Measuring slightly over 16x15mm (corner to corner 17mm.) and carrying a shallow depth of 8.90mm (58% total depth), coupled with a small table (47%) and very consistent proportions which are no doubt for the beautiful play-of-lights this diamond offers its viewers.


A very special square Old Mine Cut diamond of slightly over 26 carats in a yellowish tint and good crystal, its clarity would be considered a very good SI1 (two VS proportionally sized center inclusions positioned by the center of the table).

As with the former, this diamond was also crafted to showcase its beauty over size/weight, attesting to this fact are its exemplary proportions which again are proof to superior craftsmanship for the relevant period. Even though its body color is of yellowish tint, its play-of-lights are a perfect mask to that fact. Their faceting placements and proportions are directly responsible for their superb bright appearance and light play when in motion.

Measuring slightly over 18x18mm (corner to corner surpassing 20mm.) and again carrying a depth of 10mm. (59% total depth). Table size is 54% with a significant crown height of 19% allowing the crown facets to display their full optical wonders.

You can see 3 more videos in our YouTube channel:
Video 1

Video 2

Video 3





:love:
 

LightBright

Brilliant_Rock
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Beautiful, but this is an example of the recent trend of huge old cut diamonds that could not possibly be antique. IMO. Antique diamonds like this would have come out of a dismantled crown or larger piece owned by royals or tycoons. They would have a provenance. One can barely find them in books or museums.

I’m seeing so many large stones being described as antique nowadays and the fact is that that there was only so much antique to go around. They were not kept for decades in vaults to be sold en masse, in the age of the oligarchs. We would have seen them in this quantity before, and we have not.

I would honestly like to hear from the pros, the trade, about their knowledge on where all these 4 carat plus (and a constant stream of smaller stones being marketed as antique) “antique” diamonds are coming from.

Whoever is producing them have got to first have very large pieces of rough and then they’ve got to cut it. Is there an industry doing this? Why wouldn’t they be cutting massive more modern cuts instead?

If I’m wrong then something really is odd about the sheer abundance of antiquities available.

By the way, I’m not talking about Cutters like Gem Concepts as they cut antique style diamonds and say so.

Please tell me your theory about this, professionals. Why so many, now?
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
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8,228
Beautiful, but this is an example of the recent trend of huge old cut diamonds that could not possibly be antique. IMO. Antique diamonds like this would have come out of a dismantled crown or larger piece owned by royals or tycoons. They would have a provenance. One can barely find them in books or museums.

I’m seeing so many large stones being described as antique nowadays and the fact is that that there was only so much antique to go around. They were not kept for decades in vaults to be sold en masse, in the age of the oligarchs. We would have seen them in this quantity before, and we have not.

I would honestly like to hear from the pros, the trade, about their knowledge on where all these 4 carat plus (and a constant stream of smaller stones being marketed as antique) “antique” diamonds are coming from.

Whoever is producing them have got to first have very large pieces of rough and then they’ve got to cut it. Is there an industry doing this? Why wouldn’t they be cutting massive more modern cuts instead?

If I’m wrong then something really is odd about the sheer abundance of antiquities available.

By the way, I’m not talking about Cutters like Gem Concepts as they cut antique style diamonds and say so.

Please tell me your theory about this, professionals. Why so many, now?
An interesting viewpoint, thank you for posting! :)

Perhaps @diagem might be able to contribute re: how 'true antique' stones can be recognised?

(I am aware that 'fakers' have spent a great deal of time and effort recreating things that look old and are therefore worth more money! :lol:)
 

amoline

Shiny_Rock
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Oct 11, 2018
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341
Something tells me this is yet another one of those "If you have to ask..." pricing situations. :mrgreen:

What neat stones. Amazing to see that video.
 

HDer

Brilliant_Rock
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Something tells me this is yet another one of those "If you have to ask..." pricing situations. :mrgreen:

What neat stones. Amazing to see that video.
Someone please ask so that we can start saving up pennies. :)
 

CSpan

Brilliant_Rock
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Beautiful, but this is an example of the recent trend of huge old cut diamonds that could not possibly be antique. IMO. Antique diamonds like this would have come out of a dismantled crown or larger piece owned by royals or tycoons. They would have a provenance. One can barely find them in books or museums.

I’m seeing so many large stones being described as antique nowadays and the fact is that that there was only so much antique to go around. They were not kept for decades in vaults to be sold en masse, in the age of the oligarchs. We would have seen them in this quantity before, and we have not.

If I’m wrong then something really is odd about the sheer abundance of antiquities available.

Funny you would say that. On several trips to Russia I always made a point to get tickets to the Armoury Diamond Vault in the Kremlin museum. It is still spectacular, crown jewels, loose stones, a map of the former USSR in diamonds with a ruby for Moscow and Sapphire at St Pete's. But my first visit was in an educational exchange sponsored by various ministries and one "perk" was they took us into the actual vault. Black as night room, weird little lights over head and then..
They start pulling invisible pulls for shelves or drawers and each drawer is just black velvet lined boxes of cut diamonds. Not organized, not lined up just "here are a couple 100 1 ct and here ar 2 and 3 and so on" there were only 4 or 5 of us who got in and I don't think our jaws came up for an hour. Because it was Russia and they love rules, our guide wasn't allowed in with us and the docent/minder didn't speak much English but gist was something like that vault had enough stockpiled stones to upset the entire diamond economy of the day and flood the market. It was wild. I assume it was ransacked for oligarchs but who knows.
 

missy

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sarahb

Brilliant_Rock
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Aside from these beautiful massive honkers referenced above, I've often wondered where all these 'antique' & 'vintage' rings, earrings etc come from.

It seemed over night a cottage IG, Etsy, & online industry arose, all participating in the same market segment.

I often wonder where all this antique & vintage inventory came from. Some of it is legit I'm sure, but the massive quantity we see being marketed across the board is questionable in my opinion.
 

ForteKitty

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Oct 7, 2004
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5,239
Beautiful, but this is an example of the recent trend of huge old cut diamonds that could not possibly be antique. IMO. Antique diamonds like this would have come out of a dismantled crown or larger piece owned by royals or tycoons. They would have a provenance. One can barely find them in books or museums.

I’m seeing so many large stones being described as antique nowadays and the fact is that that there was only so much antique to go around. They were not kept for decades in vaults to be sold en masse, in the age of the oligarchs. We would have seen them in this quantity before, and we have not.

I would honestly like to hear from the pros, the trade, about their knowledge on where all these 4 carat plus (and a constant stream of smaller stones being marketed as antique) “antique” diamonds are coming from.

Whoever is producing them have got to first have very large pieces of rough and then they’ve got to cut it. Is there an industry doing this? Why wouldn’t they be cutting massive more modern cuts instead?

If I’m wrong then something really is odd about the sheer abundance of antiquities available.

By the way, I’m not talking about Cutters like Gem Concepts as they cut antique style diamonds and say so.

Please tell me your theory about this, professionals. Why so many, now?



@LightBright Not a professional but I do go to shows and watch auctions. My guess is that the people who owned them passed away and their kin either don't care or can't afford to keep them, so they've been released to the market. If these stones are from the late 1800 to 1930s, it would make sense that they were passed on to their kin and those kin would gone (or dying) around past 15 years-now. Hence the larger supply. I mean my own 3.788ct oec was left in a safe in Texas somewhere, still set in a bar pin, abandoned. State auctioned it off. My guess was that it wasn't a newly recut stone, but that the person passed away and their kin either didn't know about it, or they didn't have kin.

Have you looked at auctions from auction houses? Specifically European auctions, not eBay. There are TONS of huge diamonds in really old mounts, distinct designs. Many sell for very little, then few weeks/months down the line, you'd see them resurface at vendors' shops and antique shows. There are so, SO many.

Of course I believe there are many stones cut to misrepresent as old but are actually new, like those super high color high clarity stones in larger sizes. Highly suspect. But for smaller diamonds i don't even know if it's worth the effort. If you know how to search, you can find them all over the place. I am currently hoarding like 30 stones just under 1ct. I can assure you they all came from old rings and aren't newly cut, because they would have lost money selling them for what I paid if they cut it from a new rough!
 
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distracts

Ideal_Rock
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*sobs in regular income levels*

I WISH I could buy one of those - but I suspect they are much, much more money than I'll ever spend on jewelry if I want to be able to retire!
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
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I suspect someone (all) these magnificent huge old diamonds have come from “royal” Jewellery, dismantled and repurposed over the decades. In Europe there are many countries that no longer have “kings and queens” But back in the day there was tiaras, necklaces a plenty.
 

GliderPoss

Ideal_Rock
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:confused: Now I'm confused is Yoram saying these are Antique diamonds or just spectacular "modern" diamonds cut in an antique style....? I definitely think there is a difference in value for something genuinely antique with provenance. Either way, I wouldn't kick it out of bed.... :love:
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
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9,150
Beautiful, but this is an example of the recent trend of huge old cut diamonds that could not possibly be antique. IMO. Antique diamonds like this would have come out of a dismantled crown or larger piece owned by royals or tycoons. They would have a provenance. One can barely find them in books or museums.

I’m seeing so many large stones being described as antique nowadays and the fact is that that there was only so much antique to go around. They were not kept for decades in vaults to be sold en masse, in the age of the oligarchs. We would have seen them in this quantity before, and we have not.

I would honestly like to hear from the pros, the trade, about their knowledge on where all these 4 carat plus (and a constant stream of smaller stones being marketed as antique) “antique” diamonds are coming from.

Whoever is producing them have got to first have very large pieces of rough and then they’ve got to cut it. Is there an industry doing this? Why wouldn’t they be cutting massive more modern cuts instead?

If I’m wrong then something really is odd about the sheer abundance of antiquities available.

By the way, I’m not talking about Cutters like Gem Concepts as they cut antique style diamonds and say so.

Please tell me your theory about this, professionals. Why so many, now?
Age does not, of itself, add much value. Provenance might, but that depends on the ownership history more than age. Most old Old Miners don't have this kind of precision in symmetry but some do. Are these particular stones antiques? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. I'm with you in guessing not. Does it matter?

Roughly every diamond ever mined is still out there. Put bluntly, diamonds are forever and people are not. A 100-year-old stone is likely to be on at least it's 3rd owner and maybe more. They get passed down through families, they get sold, they get gifted, they get damaged and repaired, they get recut. Lots of things can happen over that much time.

Why cut an OMC? It's a marketing thing. For starters, they're cool. A well done Old Miner or OEC can be fantastic. Depending on the shape of the rough it can have a significantly better yield, and customers are a lot less stressed about 'low' color. Selling a 15-carat GIAxxx O-P is no simple task, especially in the Internet age where buyers think J is low. Sellers tend to think they're worth a fortune, and buyers want a steep discount. Old Miners and OECs have a different pitch. They almost all show a bit of color so it's expected and not really seen as a problem.
 

diagem

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Age does not, of itself, add much value. Provenance might, but that depends on the ownership history more than age. Most old Old Miners don't have this kind of precision in symmetry but some do. Are these particular stones antiques? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. I'm with you in guessing not. Does it matter?

... They almost all show a bit of color so it's expected and not really seen as a problem....
Antique age and status in some segments definitely add value without taking provenance into considerations. Good, important and proven provenance is the cherry on the top. In Antique diamonds in particular supply & demand law rules. In such a diversified product assortments offered by the antique cut jungle of offerings, beautiful antique diamonds will usually command certain premiums which become more significant with the rarity factor.

denverappraiser, although it might be considered a rare event (and a legit reason for premiums), whenever antique diamonds were cut to great angle/proportions displaying a great play of lights, the nature of their large facet surface reflections will with no doubt mask body-color just like with generic diamonds but also as with the two antique diamonds which are subjects to this thread and seem to confuse some with their antique status.

This is a part of their product description on our site:

“...This unique offerings are both an exemplar for antique diamonds cut well over a hundred years ago. Their significant size and craftsmanship are living attestant to the fine works of specialized craftsmen of by-gone era.
Such two diamonds have with no doubt housed important jewels of their times and now we have an opportunity to offer you these two beautiful diamonds with historical significance....”

So if anyone is wondering, yes they are genuine, rare sized antique diamonds.
 
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