shape
carat
color
clarity

And the drama continues...

300GCP

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
73
Begonia|1304357321|2910129 said:
I can understand your fiance being upset. It would be helpful to know what part bothers him. Is it that you aren't happy with what he and the jeweller picked out (and has hurt feelings), or that he doesn't want to have to do the process again? If it is the second part, then you could do the work yourself with the jeweller. If it is the first part, (or something else?) then I think you should back off and let him do this, and make darn sure that the setting is absolutely something you love, which will make the diamond look fabulous. I'm thinking that he may find the whole process of diamond selection stressful... :???:

I think the entire thing has been so stressful. I think he is upset that I was unhappy the first time. I think he felt like he did an amazing job this time. I was so very excited to get the new ring (literally thrilled). He knew that he was supposed to be looking for eye cleanliness and I think he was thoroughly convinced that he had achieved that and is fully shocked to learn that he didn't. I am shocked too, I know he looked at the stone multiple times trying to ensure that it was eye clean. I did not even think it was possible that I could very clearly (without a whole lot of effort) see something that he can barely see even when holding it right up to his face, closing one eye and squinting with the other. I think he is also upset that I am being so picky over a symbolic and emotional purchase. As far as the last thing, I even feel incredibly guilty about that. I am trying my absolute best to accept it as a birthmark and get over it.
 

Lula

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
4,624
motownmama|1304357544|2910131 said:
I don't have time to read all the good advice here, but I did read YOUR post. As an old and VERY happily married gal I say let the guy have his surprise and feel good about the experience - he cannot even see this speck, so it can't be that obvious. Personally I would NOT hurt his feelings at this point. Enjoy your ring and start planning your wedding and lives together!!! BEST of luck!

Ditto, motownmama. Don't go looking for the speck, even if it means you don't observe your ring up close for a while. Unless the speck is symbolic for some other issue in your relationship (and I don't need or want an answer for that question, btw).

If you really this ring to be a surprise, chosen by him, then you need to give up control and accept what he chose for you. I mean, come on, if I were him, I'd be wondering about the mixed messages you're sending. You want the ring to be a surprise, yet you reject his first choice. He graciously accepts that that ring wasn't quite right; he starts all over and follows your instructions to a T -- including checking with you on the clarity! You tell him, after he asks about the clarity grade, that yes, if he and the jeweler can't see any inclusions, that that is good enough for you. And then, two days later it's not good enough for you, and you reject the ring again. At this point, he undoubtedly feels that you repeatedly rejecting the ring is symbolic of you rejecting him. And that's got to hurt. I don't blame him for being upset.

Accept the ring; wear it proudly -- don't mention the clarity again -- and trade it in in a few years for an anniversary if it still bothers you. Yes, in retrospect, you probably should have forgone the "surprise" aspect of this purchase, but it sounds like the surprise was your idea and not his, and he's done more than many guys would to honor your wishes.
 

Circe

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
8,087
Oy-yoy-yoy! Oh, how unfortunate - I'm sorry he's hurt by it, and I'm sorry you're feeling guilty (but still unsatisfied). I think different people have different attitudes towards gift-giving, and until you figure out a way to navigate those differences ... troubled waters ahead!

See, I'm very much of the "if it's a gift, you should appreciate it" school (even if you secretly don't, to the giver's face you do): my husband is of the "blunt" school. That's just it: blunt. We both had our little come-to-Jesus moments on this: with him, it was when he got me a pendant that, while it had a nice thought behind it - as he put it, it's swirly, like that Art Nouveau stuff you like, right? - turned out to be a v. 80s heart (happily, he came in while I was eye-balling it suspiciously, realized something had gone wrong, and we returned it). With me, it was when I got him a nice - a really nice! - pocketknife of the sort he'd admired on our honeymoon - black mother-of-pearl handle, damascene steel blade - only to have him look at me blankly and say, "I fly every week for work." Seriously, it was like a messed up version of "The Gift of the Magi."

So now I choose my own gifts, and he provides a little more in the way of guidance.

I think the important thing, no matter what the individual vagaries might be, is communication, communication, communication. At the end of the day, you love one another madly, you're making a commitment to spend the rest of your lives together, and you're going to live happily ever after. The ring? Is just a ring. But, if you're shelling out 20K or so, it should be a ring you both really like. Me, I'd try to learn to love the inclusion (or try reorienting it in a different setting - I wonder if a bezel could help to disguise it a little - post macro pics, maybe?), just because I would find it hard to resist the value of a stone just under the 2 carat jump ... but either way, if his feelings are hurt now, you still have to talk about it. This isn't about anything but the ring - you're not comparing him to your ex, who, obviously, is not as cool as this guy, since you left the ex and are marrying him, you're not angling for him to spend more money, etc., etc. - it's just about finding the thing that will make you happiest for the next 60 years. So, get him to talk about his feelings, you do the same, and see where it lands you ....

Trust me, it will make things so much easier in the years to come!
 

300GCP

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
73
Circe|1304359261|2910163 said:
Oy-yoy-yoy! Oh, how unfortunate - I'm sorry he's hurt by it, and I'm sorry you're feeling guilty (but still unsatisfied). I think different people have different attitudes towards gift-giving, and until you figure out a way to navigate those differences ... troubled waters ahead!

See, I'm very much of the "if it's a gift, you should appreciate it" school (even if you secretly don't, to the giver's face you do): my husband is of the "blunt" school. That's just it: blunt. We both had our little come-to-Jesus moments on this: with him, it was when he got me a pendant that, while it had a nice thought behind it - as he put it, it's swirly, like that Art Nouveau stuff you like, right? - turned out to be a v. 80s heart (happily, he came in while I was eye-balling it suspiciously, realized something had gone wrong, and we returned it). With me, it was when I got him a nice - a really nice! - pocketknife of the sort he'd admired on our honeymoon - black mother-of-pearl handle, damascene steel blade - only to have him look at me blankly and say, "I fly every week for work." Seriously, it was like a messed up version of "The Gift of the Magi."

So now I choose my own gifts, and he provides a little more in the way of guidance.

I think the important thing, no matter what the individual vagaries might be, is communication, communication, communication. At the end of the day, you love one another madly, you're making a commitment to spend the rest of your lives together, and you're going to live happily ever after. The ring? Is just a ring. But, if you're shelling out 20K or so, it should be a ring you both really like. Me, I'd try to learn to love the inclusion (or try reorienting it in a different setting - I wonder if a bezel could help to disguise it a little - post macro pics, maybe?), just because I would find it hard to resist the value of a stone just under the 2 carat jump ... but either way, if his feelings are hurt now, you still have to talk about it. This isn't about anything but the ring - you're not comparing him to your ex, who, obviously, is not as cool as this guy, since you left the ex and are marrying him, you're not angling for him to spend more money, etc., etc. - it's just about finding the thing that will make you happiest for the next 60 years. So, get him to talk about his feelings, you do the same, and see where it lands you ....

Trust me, it will make things so much easier in the years to come!


I appreciate this advice a lot. I do believe that it's a gift and you should appreciate it - thus the guilt (plus, I'm Irish Catholic, so naturally I am always guilty). I do think I'm just not going to look at it for a while. And you are completely correct. My ex somehow got a very wonderful ring on the first try, but he wasn't even remotely the man my current guy is. He is absolutely wonderful, and it is absolutely killing me that our otherwise fantastic relationship is overshadowed by this ridiculous thing. I can;t believe I feel this way about the ring, I am fighting it with everything I can muster.

I'd like to post macro pics and see if maybe anyone has a suggest on how to reset it, but I do think it's far enough from the edge where it's probably impossible. I'm not sure I know how to take a good picture, but I do have a good camera so hopefully I can figure it out.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
58,547
I am sure in the early years I probably hurt my husband's feelings about returning gifts I did not like. I have since learned to keep my mouth shut if it is an inexpensive item (say under $50 or $100). But the object of a gift is to make the recipient happy, not to make the giver happy. Ideally both will be happy. But in this case if you still have some doubts in a day or so, please just ask the jeweler to call in some other stones for you to compare to this one. Your fiance isn't going to care so much this time if you change the stone. It is just a mistake not to take care of it now because it isn't worth disliking your diamond for years to come. I wish we could see it!
 

300GCP

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
73
It took me like a thousand times to get a photo that would work. Finally I have one that shows the inclusion. The first is one zoomed out where it's not particularly noticeable. The next is closer and I can see it in this picture, it is at the top and just inside the table. If you can't see it there, the next is it zoomed in to show it clearly.



IMG_0557_1.jpg

IMG_0571_2.jpg

IMG_0571.jpg
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
27,424
I cant see it in the first and can barely see it in the second. Its a beautiful stone/ring. I think I would wear it, birthmark and
all and love it! People have different eye-sight so it doesnt surprise me that one might see it and the other might not.
I dont think others will see the inclusion without close/long term inspection. I personally could learn to be happy with it.
Does the stone have an upgrade policy? Maybe wait a year or two and go do a mini-upgrade for clarity.
 

Black Jade

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,242
When I got engaged to my husband, we had been dating for seven years, so he knew me well. He did not bring a ring. he said to me, I hope you don't mind that I didn't buy the engagement ring yet. I thought we would go choose it together because I KNOW YOU"RE PICKY. We both went to choose it together. I was happy with what I got. Fast forward to our anniversaries that he bought me significant jewelry for 25 and 25plus years later. he gives me the budget. I pick. He admires. We are all happy. My mother says to me, 'how can you stand picking out your own jewelry? It's so unromantic. I wouldn't want to be picking out my own diamonds. Don't you want to be surprised? Isn't it nicer when he knows exactly what you want without your telling him?' then she brings me an enormous cache of jewelry that I never even knew she had, after my father died, which are presents he gave her for 40 years at every brithday, mother's day, anniversary and Christmas--and she never wore ANY of them, because she can't stand the styles. she gave it all away after he died and then went and picked out stuff that she actually likes, and wears all the time.
Moral #1: Men are not mindreaders. Even if they love you madly.
Moral #2: Surprises are not romantic if you can't stand them.
NOt a moral, but an observation: Some people see things others don't. When I bring a pieceof jewelry home, one reason I m ake sure it has a return period is because my 16 year old son can see things with his bare eyes that I can't see even with a loupe and I know that if I can't see it, perhaps it is still visible, but if HE can't see it, superman with his x-ray vision couldn't see it either. So then I don't worry. Your husband is just going to have to accept that you can see things he can't. And that they bug you. It sounds like you have a great relationship--he has been very patient already and must love you a great deal. Take this as a learning experience. Do not expect him to read your mind in the future--but don't worry because you made this mistake at this point. It could happen to anyone--you are now learning about each other. Before you talk to him AGAIN think everything out, including whether you, personally, would rather have a smaller but eye clean stone. Do not think about what the jeweller has to say. Because a jeweller thinks its eye-clean doesn't mean YOU think its eye-clean (there's a sticky on that somewhere, maybe someone can link). Third time is a charm. I'm sure you'll get it right. Probably the two of you will even laugh about this together one day.
Wishing you the very very best--
 

OCgirl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
509
I understand where you are coming from. I was searching for an eye-clean SI1 stone for a while. For some reason I seem to have super-human vision and I see inclusions when no others (my bf, my mom) can see them. My mom got so frustrated and told me to just get a VS2 stone instead. I, however, was convinced that I could find an SI1 stone that my vision "tolerates". I did see some very clean SI1 stones in the past so I know they are out there.Therefore I did not want to pay the price tag of VS2 or above.

I think it appears your inclusion is a dark spot instead of a feather or a crystal that usually has no color. A dark spot to me is kind of hard to overcome because it's so easy to spot. I don't think the jeweler was being honest when he/she stated this is an eye-clean stone. It may be hard to spot but it definitely is visible. I would probably try to see if he/she will let me trade it in for a stone of smiliar size but a cleaner SI1 or one color downgrade+one clarity upgrade. You should be able to use the same setting if the carat size does not fluctuate much :)
 

Circe

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Messages
8,087
Hm. I can see the inclusion in the second and third pics, but not in the first, which looks like it might have been taken from 8-10 inches away ... which is the general standard by which the industry defines "eye-clean." I can see how it might bug you (I tend to fixate on minor flaws, too), but I'm going to guess that no one but you will ever see the inclusion, between the normal viewing distance and the fact that a stone in motion scintillates and obscures minor flaws. All people will see is the incredibly beautiful ring, because, rest assured, that is a gorgeous ring.

That said, if it bugs you, it bugs you, and the issues are already out on the table, so ... talk! Talk, make sure nobody feels unappreciated or neglected, and once the important stuff is out of the way, decide how it will make both of you feel to keep the stone vs. exchanging the stone. Sadly, I don't think a reset would do too much to hide the inclusion, though it might be worth a shot - anybody out there tried anything similar?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
Black Jade|1304367431|2910308 said:
When I got engaged to my husband, we had been dating for seven years, so he knew me well. He did not bring a ring. he said to me, I hope you don't mind that I didn't buy the engagement ring yet. I thought we would go choose it together because I KNOW YOU"RE PICKY. We both went to choose it together. I was happy with what I got. Fast forward to our anniversaries that he bought me significant jewelry for 25 and 25plus years later. he gives me the budget. I pick. He admires. We are all happy. My mother says to me, 'how can you stand picking out your own jewelry? It's so unromantic. I wouldn't want to be picking out my own diamonds. Don't you want to be surprised? Isn't it nicer when he knows exactly what you want without your telling him?' then she brings me an enormous cache of jewelry that I never even knew she had, after my father died, which are presents he gave her for 40 years at every brithday, mother's day, anniversary and Christmas--and she never wore ANY of them, because she can't stand the styles. she gave it all away after he died and then went and picked out stuff that she actually likes, and wears all the time.
Moral #1: Men are not mindreaders. Even if they love you madly.
Moral #2: Surprises are not romantic if you can't stand them.
NOt a moral, but an observation: Some people see things others don't. When I bring a pieceof jewelry home, one reason I m ake sure it has a return period is because my 16 year old son can see things with his bare eyes that I can't see even with a loupe and I know that if I can't see it, perhaps it is still visible, but if HE can't see it, superman with his x-ray vision couldn't see it either. So then I don't worry. Your husband is just going to have to accept that you can see things he can't. And that they bug you. It sounds like you have a great relationship--he has been very patient already and must love you a great deal. Take this as a learning experience. Do not expect him to read your mind in the future--but don't worry because you made this mistake at this point. It could happen to anyone--you are now learning about each other. Before you talk to him AGAIN think everything out, including whether you, personally, would rather have a smaller but eye clean stone. Do not think about what the jeweller has to say. Because a jeweller thinks its eye-clean doesn't mean YOU think its eye-clean (there's a sticky on that somewhere, maybe someone can link). Third time is a charm. I'm sure you'll get it right. Probably the two of you will even laugh about this together one day.
Wishing you the very very best--

I just wanted to say what a great post this is and says my thoughts 100%! I love my jewelry because I pick it out and my husband is so pleased for me to have things I really love. I do the same for him...let him pick things he really loves.

Okay, yes, I can see the inclusion and it probably would bug me in a ring stone. I might be able to handle it in an earring stone, but just because I didn't want the potential hassle, I still got VS stones for my earrings. If this black spot was on the side and could be under a prong, I probably would let it go, but I am not sure I could deal with it being under the table where I could see it easily.

No, you are not too picky. I think they simply didn't look at the stone as closely as you did. So now you know for sure you will always need to pick your own stones, and really, VS2 is just so much easier in the long run.
 

suchende

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
1,002
I've followed your saga and I think, at root of your problem, is that you're trying too hard to be accommodating. You wanted, I think, for him to just know that you wanted a diamond that would "wow" you, but all you said was, as long as it is eye-clean, or, as long as my trade-in diamond only pays for part of it. So he took you at face value and did the bare minimum that you said would make you happy, instead of going above and beyond and surprising you with something exceptional (which I suspect is what you really wanted from the beginning). It might be too late this time, but in the future, you might need to work on communicating your true desires, rather than just the "floor" of a range of things you would be okay with. Of course, that also means admitting to yourself what you really are hoping for (even when that sometimes means something extravagant).
 

motownmama

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Messages
8,217
That's a good attitude - diamonds are natural after all!! I know the inclusion in my ring, and if I ever have to take it in, I always check that it's mine when I get it back!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
suchende|1304370169|2910358 said:
I've followed your saga and I think, at root of your problem, is that you're trying too hard to be accommodating. You wanted, I think, for him to just know that you wanted a diamond that would "wow" you, but all you said was, as long as it is eye-clean, or, as long as my trade-in diamond only pays for part of it. So he took you at face value and did the bare minimum that you said would make you happy, instead of going above and beyond and surprising you with something exceptional (which I suspect is what you really wanted from the beginning). It might be too late this time, but in the future, you might need to work on communicating your true desires, rather than just the "floor" of a range of things you would be okay with. Of course, that also means admitting to yourself what you really are hoping for (even when that sometimes means something extravagant).

Okay well, I'm going to disagree with this. I don't think the OP is being too accomodating. I think for her this was some kind of test he had to pass. That's what I got from this. She wanted to be wowed and blown away by his choice since he's CLEARLY a better man than her ex the ring he choses MUST clearly be better than the one her ex chose.

Flat out wrong. Sorry. You had unrealistic expectations and wanted this ring choice to 'prove his love for you' or whatever. If you need a ring to prove to you how much someone loves you and how well they know you... you got problems. Either you trust that he loves you or not. The ring shouldn't make or break anything.

If you were gonna be this picky... Ditto Deco. Go out and get involved.
 

texaskj

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
1,197
Once again....and again and again and again. A purchase this expensive and important should NOT be a surprise.
 

300GCP

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
73
Gypsy|1304381639|2910576 said:
suchende|1304370169|2910358 said:
I've followed your saga and I think, at root of your problem, is that you're trying too hard to be accommodating. You wanted, I think, for him to just know that you wanted a diamond that would "wow" you, but all you said was, as long as it is eye-clean, or, as long as my trade-in diamond only pays for part of it. So he took you at face value and did the bare minimum that you said would make you happy, instead of going above and beyond and surprising you with something exceptional (which I suspect is what you really wanted from the beginning). It might be too late this time, but in the future, you might need to work on communicating your true desires, rather than just the "floor" of a range of things you would be okay with. Of course, that also means admitting to yourself what you really are hoping for (even when that sometimes means something extravagant).

Okay well, I'm going to disagree with this. I don't think the OP is being too accomodating. I think for her this was some kind of test he had to pass. That's what I got from this. She wanted to be wowed and blown away by his choice since he's CLEARLY a better man than her ex the ring he choses MUST clearly be better than the one her ex chose.

Flat out wrong. Sorry. You had unrealistic expectations and wanted this ring choice to 'prove his love for you' or whatever. If you need a ring to prove to you how much someone loves you and how well they know you... you got problems. Either you trust that he loves you or not. The ring shouldn't make or break anything.

If you were gonna be this picky... Ditto Deco. Go out and get involved.

You're certainly WRONG about this, and this is something that I NEVER said. Thought the ring would be eye clean. It's not to me. I'm upset. That's the long and short of it and certainly it doesn't make or break the relationship nor was it a "test."
 

Circe

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
8,087
Gypsy|1304381639|2910576 said:
suchende|1304370169|2910358 said:
I've followed your saga and I think, at root of your problem, is that you're trying too hard to be accommodating. You wanted, I think, for him to just know that you wanted a diamond that would "wow" you, but all you said was, as long as it is eye-clean, or, as long as my trade-in diamond only pays for part of it. So he took you at face value and did the bare minimum that you said would make you happy, instead of going above and beyond and surprising you with something exceptional (which I suspect is what you really wanted from the beginning). It might be too late this time, but in the future, you might need to work on communicating your true desires, rather than just the "floor" of a range of things you would be okay with. Of course, that also means admitting to yourself what you really are hoping for (even when that sometimes means something extravagant).

Okay well, I'm going to disagree with this. I don't think the OP is being too accomodating. I think for her this was some kind of test he had to pass. That's what I got from this. She wanted to be wowed and blown away by his choice since he's CLEARLY a better man than her ex the ring he choses MUST clearly be better than the one her ex chose.

Flat out wrong. Sorry. You had unrealistic expectations and wanted this ring choice to 'prove his love for you' or whatever. If you need a ring to prove to you how much someone loves you and how well they know you... you got problems. Either you trust that he loves you or not. The ring shouldn't make or break anything.

If you were gonna be this picky... Ditto Deco. Go out and get involved.

THIS picky? Aw, c'mon, Gypsy - objecting to an inclusion in the table isn't like saying she wanted an IF and only got a VVS1. I think I'm going to go with Suchende on this one ... not to mention the OP. Sometimes a cigar IS just a cigar, right?
 

300GCP

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
73
Circe|1304382800|2910608 said:
Gypsy|1304381639|2910576 said:
suchende|1304370169|2910358 said:
I've followed your saga and I think, at root of your problem, is that you're trying too hard to be accommodating. You wanted, I think, for him to just know that you wanted a diamond that would "wow" you, but all you said was, as long as it is eye-clean, or, as long as my trade-in diamond only pays for part of it. So he took you at face value and did the bare minimum that you said would make you happy, instead of going above and beyond and surprising you with something exceptional (which I suspect is what you really wanted from the beginning). It might be too late this time, but in the future, you might need to work on communicating your true desires, rather than just the "floor" of a range of things you would be okay with. Of course, that also means admitting to yourself what you really are hoping for (even when that sometimes means something extravagant).

Okay well, I'm going to disagree with this. I don't think the OP is being too accomodating. I think for her this was some kind of test he had to pass. That's what I got from this. She wanted to be wowed and blown away by his choice since he's CLEARLY a better man than her ex the ring he choses MUST clearly be better than the one her ex chose.

Flat out wrong. Sorry. You had unrealistic expectations and wanted this ring choice to 'prove his love for you' or whatever. If you need a ring to prove to you how much someone loves you and how well they know you... you got problems. Either you trust that he loves you or not. The ring shouldn't make or break anything.

If you were gonna be this picky... Ditto Deco. Go out and get involved.

THIS picky? Aw, c'mon, Gypsy - objecting to an inclusion in the table isn't like saying she wanted an IF and only got a VVS1. I think I'm going to go with Suchende on this one ... not to mention the OP. Sometimes a cigar IS just a cigar, right?

Thanks. Bottom line is a complicated this or us from the beginning by suggesting the trade, and then again by not going with him. He wanted this to be a surprise for me from the get go and I was trying to somehow have all of the ideals come together. I had NO IDEA that it would be this complicated nor did I think "eye clean" to me would NOT be the same as eye clean to him or the jeweler. If I had, I would have said to go VS2 and smaller in size. Truly wish I had done that, but hindsight is 20/20.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,547
Listen, most of us here are particular about diamonds or settings and many of us have either traded a stone or redone a setting (some multiple times). So do not feel bad!!! The time to feel bad is when you have passed the return period and did not do something about the problem before then. I think your decision really will boil down to whether you want an almost 2 ct. with the inclusion you can see or go with a 1.7 ct. VS2 than will be smaller but have no visible inclusions (but even with VS2, it IS sometimes possible to see an inclusion from the side, so it will still be essential for you to look at the stone yourself).
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
diamondseeker2006|1304384280|2910632 said:
Listen, most of us here are particular about diamonds or settings and many of us have either traded a stone or redone a setting (some multiple times). So do not feel bad!!! The time to feel bad is when you have passed the return period and did not do something about the problem before then. I think your decision really will boil down to whether you want an almost 2 ct. with the inclusion you can see or go with a 1.7 ct. VS2 than will be smaller but have no visible inclusions (but even with VS2, it IS sometimes possible to see an inclusion from the side, so it will still be essential for you to look at the stone yourself).

yes, this EXACTLY.

for what it's worth, that inclusion would bother me too.
 

300GCP

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
73
diamondseeker2006|1304384280|2910632 said:
Listen, most of us here are particular about diamonds or settings and many of us have either traded a stone or redone a setting (some multiple times). So do not feel bad!!! The time to feel bad is when you have passed the return period and did not do something about the problem before then. I think your decision really will boil down to whether you want an almost 2 ct. with the inclusion you can see or go with a 1.7 ct. VS2 than will be smaller but have no visible inclusions (but even with VS2, it IS sometimes possible to see an inclusion from the side, so it will still be essential for you to look at the stone yourself).

Honestly, 2 carats was beyond my wildest imagination in terms of size. I NEVER expected to receive that. Not the first time, not the second time. When he told me he found something like that that was eye clean, I was FLOORED. That's the truth. Eye clean at 1.7 sounds absolutely amazing to me as well.

The inclusion really bothers me, but I don't have it in me to put my fiancee through returning it when he seems to be pained by the idea. If, after a few days, he reconsiders, I will DEFINITELY encourage smaller with better clarity and I will DEFINITELY go look at the stone myself.

Thanks for your support and making me feel like I'm not loony.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
Circe|1304382800|2910608 said:
Gypsy|1304381639|2910576 said:
suchende|1304370169|2910358 said:
I've followed your saga and I think, at root of your problem, is that you're trying too hard to be accommodating. You wanted, I think, for him to just know that you wanted a diamond that would "wow" you, but all you said was, as long as it is eye-clean, or, as long as my trade-in diamond only pays for part of it. So he took you at face value and did the bare minimum that you said would make you happy, instead of going above and beyond and surprising you with something exceptional (which I suspect is what you really wanted from the beginning). It might be too late this time, but in the future, you might need to work on communicating your true desires, rather than just the "floor" of a range of things you would be okay with. Of course, that also means admitting to yourself what you really are hoping for (even when that sometimes means something extravagant).

Okay well, I'm going to disagree with this. I don't think the OP is being too accomodating. I think for her this was some kind of test he had to pass. That's what I got from this. She wanted to be wowed and blown away by his choice since he's CLEARLY a better man than her ex the ring he choses MUST clearly be better than the one her ex chose.

Flat out wrong. Sorry. You had unrealistic expectations and wanted this ring choice to 'prove his love for you' or whatever. If you need a ring to prove to you how much someone loves you and how well they know you... you got problems. Either you trust that he loves you or not. The ring shouldn't make or break anything.

If you were gonna be this picky... Ditto Deco. Go out and get involved.

THIS picky? Aw, c'mon, Gypsy - objecting to an inclusion in the table isn't like saying she wanted an IF and only got a VVS1. I think I'm going to go with Suchende on this one ... not to mention the OP. Sometimes a cigar IS just a cigar, right?


I should clarify... what I meant is: If you definition of eye-clean depends on YOUR eyesight-- eyeclean to YOUR EYES-- you should be there to examine the stone. He already proved his eye-sight wasn't as great as hers in the first round. So if it's your eagle eyes that have to be happy... they'd better be the ones that are in that shop. But she wanted HIM to pick a stone that would be eyeclean to HER eyes. Um... :confused: How is that fair? And then she complains when it fails. There is a REASON the stone was graded SI. Whether or not you can spot that reason is up to YOUR eyes.

You are darned right I would be bothered by an inclusion on the table. But then I would have said, "what time is our appointment" and been there to do the chosing. OR I would pick a clarity grade that is safe (my stone is an F VS1. Know why? I didn't pick it and I wanted something clean from ALL sides).

My base point is this: She's the root of all this drama. It's completely within her control to fix it. Now she's going to wait a few days to see what happens? WHY? You aren't happy. Rip off the band aid, put on your big girl pants, get an appointment at that jeweler for 1.7-1.8 VS stones and make sure you are both happy before you leave the store.
 

300GCP

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
73
Gypsy|1304384747|2910641 said:
Circe|1304382800|2910608 said:
Gypsy|1304381639|2910576 said:
suchende|1304370169|2910358 said:
I've followed your saga and I think, at root of your problem, is that you're trying too hard to be accommodating. You wanted, I think, for him to just know that you wanted a diamond that would "wow" you, but all you said was, as long as it is eye-clean, or, as long as my trade-in diamond only pays for part of it. So he took you at face value and did the bare minimum that you said would make you happy, instead of going above and beyond and surprising you with something exceptional (which I suspect is what you really wanted from the beginning). It might be too late this time, but in the future, you might need to work on communicating your true desires, rather than just the "floor" of a range of things you would be okay with. Of course, that also means admitting to yourself what you really are hoping for (even when that sometimes means something extravagant).

Okay well, I'm going to disagree with this. I don't think the OP is being too accomodating. I think for her this was some kind of test he had to pass. That's what I got from this. She wanted to be wowed and blown away by his choice since he's CLEARLY a better man than her ex the ring he choses MUST clearly be better than the one her ex chose.

Flat out wrong. Sorry. You had unrealistic expectations and wanted this ring choice to 'prove his love for you' or whatever. If you need a ring to prove to you how much someone loves you and how well they know you... you got problems. Either you trust that he loves you or not. The ring shouldn't make or break anything.

If you were gonna be this picky... Ditto Deco. Go out and get involved.

THIS picky? Aw, c'mon, Gypsy - objecting to an inclusion in the table isn't like saying she wanted an IF and only got a VVS1. I think I'm going to go with Suchende on this one ... not to mention the OP. Sometimes a cigar IS just a cigar, right?


I should clarify... what I meant is: If you definition of eye-clean depends on YOUR eyesight-- eyeclean to YOUR EYES-- you should be there to examine the stone. He already proved his eye-sight wasn't as great as hers in the first round. So if it's your eagle eyes that have to be happy... they'd better be the ones that are in that shop. But she wanted HIM to pick a stone that would be eyeclean to HER eyes. Um... :confused: How is that fair? And then she complains when it fails. There is a REASON the stone was graded SI.

You are darned right I would be bothered by an inclusion on the table. But then I would have said, "what time is our appointment" and been there to do the chosing. OR I would pick a clarity grade that is safe (my stone is an F VS1. Know why? I didn't pick it).

It's one thing for your opinion to be that I should've gone with him (which certainly would have saved us a lot of grief) but it's quite another to suggestion that I "have problems" and that I think has something to do with "proving his love" or a comparison between my prior husband and current husband. All of that is inflammatory BS that is both WRONG and can't possibly be garnered from my OP. It was also wholly unnecessary.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
My base point is this: YOU are the root of all this drama. It's completely within YOUR control to fix it. Now you are going to wait a few days to see what happens? WHY? You aren't happy. Rip off the band aid, put on your big girl pants, get an appointment at that jeweler for 1.7-1.8 VS stones and make sure you are both happy before you leave the store. End of drama.
 

300GCP

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
73
Gypsy|1304385092|2910649 said:
My base point is this: YOU are the root of all this drama. It's completely within YOUR control to fix it. Now you are going to wait a few days to see what happens? WHY? You aren't happy. Rip off the band aid, put on your big girl pants, get an appointment at that jeweler for 1.7-1.8 VS stones and make sure you are both happy before you leave the store. End of drama.

WRONG because, contrary to your assertion, I actually care MORE about the relationship than I do the ring. Does it bother me? Yes. Does my fiancee being hurt bother me more? YES. If he becomes comfortable, we will do exactly what you suggested. If you look at my OP, the question was, can I do something with a setting to cover this up without trading the stone. THAT was the original question.
 

Ickeymouse

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
58
The texaskj moose is right, again!

What is the deal with the mystique of proposals, rings, parties, etc., having to be a SURPRISE all the time?!! Aren't they exciting enough on their own! We get into this same kind of problem when women expect men to read their minds about what they want when it comes to love, romance and even dinner!

I don't think you are being, picky, a pain, or anything else. Sounds like it is just your nature and personality. You say you were married before, well you probably just want to get everything right this time around. No one should come down on you for that! So what? You are picky?!! Picky is GOOD!! I would much rather have a picky person working on the engines of the air plane I am about to board, then a person whose attitude is "eh, good enough." Picky people care. That is a good thing! Alright, so they get a little neurotic. Well, everyone is neurotic in some way.

If your FH loves you and wants to make you happy, then he had better love your neurosis, too! Sounds like he was so excited at first to get you this big ol' stone, and then disappointed that you were'nt as thrilled as he was. He'll get over it. I am sure you can tell him nicely, "let's go back together, no surprises, I am just excited about getting to marry you." No harm, no foul. Maybe you can find a stone where the inclusions can be covered, or a smaller better clarity, etc. If you look like a couple of nut cases, who cares? Life is too short to be unhappy about the little things that we have a bit of control over. The hard part is taking the hits we can't control and still going on.

Best
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
300GCP|1304385186|2910651 said:
Gypsy|1304385092|2910649 said:
My base point is this: YOU are the root of all this drama. It's completely within YOUR control to fix it. Now you are going to wait a few days to see what happens? WHY? You aren't happy. Rip off the band aid, put on your big girl pants, get an appointment at that jeweler for 1.7-1.8 VS stones and make sure you are both happy before you leave the store. End of drama.

WRONG because, contrary to your assertion, I actually care MORE about the relationship than I do the ring. Does it bother me? Yes. Does my fiancee being hurt bother me more? YES. If he becomes comfortable, we will do exactly what you suggested. If you look at my OP, the question was, can I do something with a setting to cover this up without trading the stone. THAT was the original question.

We'll agree to disagree. Most of the "tone" of your posts, that I am referring to, are from your original thread (not this one) in which you say that you loved your old ring, SI isn't good enough for you, you don't feel like he contributed enough to the new ring and then... you follow that up with this "the drama continues" about how NOW he can't pick an eyeclean stone.

No setting is gonna help you. You silently staring at that black inclusion so you can tell yourself you are the bigger person because you are sacrificing your comfort for his... what is that? If it bothers you say something. End. The. Drama. How long are you gonna be happy staring at that inclusion telling yourself you are putting up with it to save his feelings? Not long. And by then... more drama, your return period has expired, diamond prices have gone up.

You want to spare his feelings? How about this: "Honey, I'm sorry. I caused this mess. I should have just gone with you so we could do this together. I didn't realize that my eagle eyes were gonna be such a problem, and I don't want to hurt your feelings-- but I also don't want to have spent all this money and time and end up with something that has an inclusion I can see on the table. Can we please make one final go at this... and this time together?"

That, in my opinion, is a lot better than you just sacrificing yourself for his comfort (drama).
 

suchende

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
1,002
May be tangential at this point but my mother's VS2 has only one inclusion: a little black speck I can see with my naked eye, right under the table (yes, GIA). VS won't automatically be eye clean. IIRC, the original SI2 only had a visible inclusion from the side? Just goes to show, if inclusions really bug you, only you can know what will pass your inspection.
 

Mayk

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
4,781
I was engaged Dec 18, 2010. Upgraded the center stone after certificate issues in February. Now changing the setting and the wedding is June 18th I am thrilled aout the changes. I have learned at every step and my fiancé and I have done it together. Did it cost a little more then is should have. Yes. But by June I should be the happiest bride walking down the isle. I told my fiance' who is watch crazy. My stone and setting is like how you study the movement or the back of a watch. It's my Paneri. (hopefully I spelled that right...it's his wedding present). I said if we get my ring right I don't need a wedding present I can wait for a future anniversary.

Get it right, love it and be content.
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
16,498
suchende|1304386302|2910672 said:
May be tangential at this point but my mother's VS2 has only one inclusion: a little black speck I can see with my naked eye, right under the table (yes, GIA). VS won't automatically be eye clean. IIRC, the original SI2 only had a visible inclusion from the side? Just goes to show, if inclusions really bug you, only you can know what will pass your inspection.

I have a friend with the exact same scenario - I couldn't believe it was graded VS2 with a black inclusion. It was explained to me that it was graded VS2 because it was only one inclusion. This has always stuck with me - one inclusion can be a big black spot and a lower graded clarity can be because of several white pinpoints that are absolutely invisible to the naked eye. Just doesn't seem fair somehow and I wouldn't have believed it had I not seen it.

I am extremely sorry to hear your story. You're not happy and he is aware that you are not happy so I'm guessing this won't all just magically go away. I think you should approach him one more time with a proposition that you both go back to the jeweler and find a stone that is acceptable to you both. It is unfortunate that you find yourself in this position but sometimes things just go down the wrong road. Hindsight is 20/20 and we can't live life in reverse. I know a ring is just a ring but I think this will just continue to eat at you. I think he would be happier in the long run knowing you are happy and that this is a saga that can successfully be put behind you.

Good luck - please keep us posted!
 
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