shape
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And the drama continues...

300GCP

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
73
Some of you might remember my prior post about trading in my engagement ring from a prior marriage towards a new engagement ring. My fiancee traded in the old ring and got something else I was not happy with for several reasons (all in my prior post) including that there were inclusions visible from the side. Well, after discussing it we replaced the stone, this time through a jeweler we BOTH trust because my fiancee seems to have gotten taken advantage of the first go round. We ended up with a G color, Excellent Cut, SI1, 1.92 round brilliant (GIA Certified). My fiancee and I went over this and I emphasized how important it was to me that the diamond not have any visible inclusions. Both he and the jeweler (who again, we trust) examined the stone on more than one occasion and determined it was an eye clean SI1. Based on this, and in an attempt to be somewhat surprised, I did not come in to look at the stone myself (probably should have). Long story short, the stone is beautiful and much nicer than the first. However, there is a tiny black speck that I can see with my naked eye faintly through the side AND from the top down (I believe they are the same spot, not two different spots). My fiancee CANNOT see this with his naked eye, even now that I have indicated to him exactly where it is. It is small, and I guess the bottom line is that my fiancee is 40 years old and far sighted and therefore cannot see it while I am a bit younger and have overcorrected vision with my contacts lenses in. Now that I know it is there, though, I feel like I see it almost every time I look down.

I do not want to go through any more stone replacement or trading and I cannot believe how difficult this entire thing has been. I guess I have two questions, one for informational purposes and the other about a possible solution before I just give up altogether:

1. Does it sound right that this was graded GIA SI1 when this spot is visible to me top down?

2. Based on the GIA certificate, I believe the actual location of the inclusion is towards the side of the pavilion yet it can be seen top down. When viewing the stone top down, the speck is just above the table and not close enough to the edge to be covered by a prong. Is it possible that, if I cover the part of the pavilion where the inclusion is visible with a prong, that the inclusion will no longer be reflected through the top anymore? I'm not sure if blocking the light source to it through the side could potentially help (but of course am hoping so).

Thanks for entertaining my neurosis. :(
 
I think you need a VS2. =) Gosh, on the one hand I am so glad you were able to resolve the first problem, but I am afraid you are like a lot of us and need a stone that is mind-clean in every way!!! If the inclusion is not where a prong will cover it, then I think you will see it since you are now very aware of it. I am sure no one else in the world will see it, though, because no one will look at it as closely as you. (Light is only reflected from the top of the stone, so a prong is not going to block light from the pavilion, if I understand what you are asking.)

Is G the lowest you can go in color? If you could go to H VS2 (or even VS1) I think that would resolve the inclusion issues. I know you've been through a lot already, but seriously, this is the time to get this thing right!!! Read my tagline!!!

(I did just have one more thought, though. That tiny speck is proof that your diamond is real, like a little birthmark, and it also would always allow you to identify your diamond if you ever have to leave it to be sized or something. If you could look at it as not being so negative, you might be able to keep it.)
 
I just CANNOT believe that after all this, I can somehow see this stupid inclusion but he truly, truly cannot see it. When he saw the diamond the first time, he scrutinized it and asked me how I felt about SI1. I said hey, if you cannot see any inclusions, I am fine it. He said he was going to make certain that he couldn't see and went back again and looked at it with the jeweler and told him specifically that he was making sure it was eye clean because that was my main problem. The jeweler, who knew the entire saga, scrutinized it with him and neither of them could see it! My fiancee still can't see it! Sigh.

I hadn't considered going lower in color before because I really thought we could find something eye clean for me, but now I think we're not going to be able to! I REALLY don't want to change the stone again. UGHHHHHHH. :angryfire: :angryfire:
 
Some us are blessed or cursed with eagle eyes. I guess you are one of them and even though Si1 stones are eye clean it may not be eye clean to your specifications so I def think you need at least a VS2 stone as diamondseeker suggested. I know you want to be surprised but I really think you need to inspect your stone so that you know you will be happy with the way it looks! Hope everything gets resolved soon !
 
Read what I added to my post above.

No one will ever look at my stone as close as I do, so I can see how they just didn't see it. So I totally get where you are coming from. My original diamond had an inclusion that I eventually discovered, and I was never happy with it after that. Then I did get an upgrade diamond for an anniversary much, much later! My eyesight isn't all that good anymore, but I use a 10x loupe to decide if I think the stone is clean enough for me! Ha! I think an inclusion like that is not such a big deal in a smaller earring stone, but in a 2 ct. diamond, I'd want it to be totally eyeclean, too. I have VS1 and VS2 for my ring and studs, just so you know! ;))

This stone is really nice because it is very close to 2 cts. but just under which is advantageous for the pricing. So it may be hard to find another excellent cut that close to 2 cts. in the color and clarity that you want. That's the only potential problem.
 
I just should have gone with my gut and told him to go VS2 or better. We just picked the ring up on Friday.

Believe it or not, I'm a really laid back person. To be these hard to please feels so out of character for me that I'm uncomfortable even complaining at this point. Yet, now that I know it's there, I can see the little speck even when my hand is in my lap if I am outside in the sun (as I was today).

With the way the diamond is currently set, depending on which way I put the ring on, the inclusion is either right above or below the table. I have more trouble seeing it when it is below the table so that's how I've been wearing it. I wonder if it will be less visible if the jeweler sets it so that it is either to the right or left of the table.

By the way diamond seeker, you were right about how you interpreted my question about the reflection before. I guess I just thought that if the prong were put over the inclusion, and if the inclusion is truly closer to the side of the pavilion than the center, that the view of it from the top might be obstructed because when you look down the prong would now be behind the inclusion. Since the inclusion is dark, I thought maybe it would just blend into the prong in that case, somehow.
 
I don't understand why the jeweler and your man can't find this inclusion and you see it! Have you look at the GIA certificate before to see where are the inclusion and find it after all?

I would like to see a picture of this inclusion from zoom and from a normal distance. Is this possible?
 
If your guy can't see it least the jeweler should be able to since he is trained for it. as everybody else said, you should try to get a VS2 or better and better look at the stone yourself too =)
 
That is definitely a potential problem with SI1 clarity diamonds, although many are actually eye-clean.

It is also true that some people see things more easily/clearly than others, so it is definitely understandable that your fiance can't see it.

Also, different people have different definitions of eye clean. For example, I think that most jewelers actually consider a diamond to be eye-clean if the inclusion cannot be seen from about nine or ten inches away, and they tend to only evaluate it from the top-down view.

That being said - you may find another SI1 diamond that is eye-clean, but you may also find it very difficult to find another comparable diamond that is just under two carats (as has already been said here). Usually, when a diamond is that close, the cutter really tries to retain more weight in order to try to hit the two carat mark.

Is this always going to bother you? If so, then it might really be best to trade it again now, before it's too late. You might have to increase your budget, or decrease the carat size or color grade, but it might be better if higher clarity is more important to you.
 
shihtzulover|1304225389|2908936 said:
That is definitely a potential problem with SI1 clarity diamonds, although many are actually eye-clean.

It is also true that some people see things more easily/clearly than others, so it is definitely understandable that your fiance can't see it.

Also, different people have different definitions of eye clean. For example, I think that most jewelers actually consider a diamond to be eye-clean if the inclusion cannot be seen from about nine or ten inches away, and they tend to only evaluate it from the top-down view.

That being said - you may find another SI1 diamond that is eye-clean, but you may also find it very difficult to find another comparable diamond that is just under two carats (as has already been said here). Usually, when a diamond is that close, the cutter really tries to retain more weight in order to try to hit the two carat mark.

Is this always going to bother you? If so, then it might really be best to trade it again now, before it's too late. You might have to increase your budget, or decrease the carat size or color grade, but it might be better if higher clarity is more important to you.

I had a beautiful G SI1 diamond, with a small, visible inclusion. I didn't notice this inclusion when we bought the stone and it could be covered by a prong. It was very difficult to see. Despite all this, we traded it in for a G VS2, which I love. It was a costly trade, but now I'm completely happy with my stone. It was worth it me to go up in clarity. If you feel the way diamondseeker and I do, that might be your best option.
 
On here, we all understand the inclusion that won't go away. If you can think of it as a birthmark, maybe you can keep the stone.

To me, it sounds like you're a real PSer. I'm not very picky in real life, but my diamond search took a LOOONG time. The fact it was a fancy cut didn't help either.

It sounds like VS2/VS1 should likely solve your diamond problem. As much as your FI has done, tell him you appreciate it to no end but take the reigns from here. I'm sure he can see you're frustrated. You've mentioned twice now that he simply cannot see the inclusions. I would have made him look too. But knowing that you wanted an eye-clean stone, and this is not eye-clean to you, I think you need to take over.

We can help if you'd like.
 
I'm near sighted too and spot inclusions and they bug me.

Just go trade the diamond for a VS2 or another SI1. It is much easier to get over whatever guilt or hanhup you have about the notion of trading it in than it is to get over being able to see an inclusion in your diamond. Or, if not easier, then that is at least the preferrable alternative IMO. There is nothing wrong with seeing the diamond and picking it yourself. It is an important purchase. Just go make it right and don't beat yourself up over it.

In my opinion, money is wasted if you are not 100% happy with what you have.
 
Take it back and start over, again...
Third time's a charm.
You are not going to be happy with any SI diamond. I have this strange feeling that once you scrutinize the report, then locate a minute inclusion (even if only visible under a loup), you will constantly be drawn to the spot of the inclusion, psychologically. Sort of like the 3D image brain teasers. No one else is able to visualize the picture within a picture, but you will be able to immediately.
You may have to bite the bullet and pick out the stone yourself. Good luck.
 
May I offer another perspective?

When I first got my 3ct F coloured stone, I thought it was really tinted (yeah, I know!!). But as time went on, I realised I was worrying about nothing. Now, when I look at it, all I see is white white white - there are times when I think it should've been graded an E instead.

Same goes for my 1.52ct G Si1. It has a cloud very near to the table, and it is reflected throughout the stone. So, when you look at it when a loupe, you can see the tiny dark specs but it is 100% eye-clean to me, though I'm sure someone with better eyesight would be able to see them unaided. Initially, I was very bothered by it but over time, it stopped bothering me. Now when I look at it, all I see is this beautiful sparkly diamond. It helps that it's a high G and I paid a good price for it (well before the recent steep price increases). So am happy and my mind is clean! :))

Like others have said, it's difficult to find something so close to the 2ct mark that satisfies every other criterion. If you are able to keep this diamond for a while (perhaps ask for a longer return period - say 45 days or so if possible) from the jeweller, wear it for a while and see how you feel about it then. It's too easy to get caught up in a "diamond-issue" - I know, I've been there and done that more than once. So perhaps something to think about?
 
I'd go back and trade it for a VS2. It's a hassle I'm sure but one well worth it in the end.
 
Dreamer_D|1304230277|2908972 said:
I'm near sighted too and spot inclusions and they bug me.

Just go trade the diamond for a VS2 or another SI1. It is much easier to get over whatever guilt or hanhup you have about the notion of trading it in than it is to get over being able to see an inclusion in your diamond. Or, if not easier, then that is at least the preferrable alternative IMO. There is nothing wrong with seeing the diamond and picking it yourself. It is an important purchase. Just go make it right and don't beat yourself up over it.

In my opinion, money is wasted if you are not 100% happy with what you have.



I 100% agree with Dreamer. You are spending a lot of money on something that you want to wear and enjoy every day for the rest of your life. Make sure its exactly what you want!
 
Phoenix|1304241000|2908997 said:
May I offer another perspective?

When I first got my 3ct F coloured stone, I thought it was really tinted (yeah, I know!!). But as time went on, I realised I was worrying about nothing. Now, when I look at it, all I see is white white white - there are times when I think it should've been graded an E instead.

Same goes for my 1.52ct G Si1. It has a cloud very near to the table, and it is reflected throughout the stone. So, when you look at it when a loupe, you can see the tiny dark specs but it is 100% eye-clean to me, though I'm sure someone with better eyesight would be able to see them unaided. Initially, I was very bothered by it but over time, it stopped bothering me. Now when I look at it, all I see is this beautiful sparkly diamond. It helps that it's a high G and I paid a good price for it (well before the recent steep price increases). So am happy and my mind is clean! :))

Like others have said, it's difficult to find something so close to the 2ct mark that satisfies every other criterion. If you are able to keep this diamond for a while (perhaps ask for a longer return period - say 45 days or so if possible) from the jeweller, wear it for a while and see how you feel about it then. It's too easy to get caught up in a "diamond-issue" - I know, I've been there and done that more than once. So perhaps something to think about?

I think I'm with Phoenix on this one. Assuming a hard budget, I'd be wroth to have to go down to, like, a 1.6 for a G VS2 over an inclusion that's apparently invisible to all but the eagle-eyed. That said, if you do decide to swap again, there ARE eye-clean SI1s out there: they're just needles in the proverbial haystack. It all depends on how much the inclusion will bother you over the years vs. how stressed out the prospect of another trade makes you now ....
 
I CANNOT BELIEVE after all that you did NOT go to the jeweler and approve your new stone. ARE YOU CRAZY?????? Self-destructive??? Lazy????? What? What gives, cookie?

Geeezus. I truly feel sorry for that poor guy. He ASKED you if Si1 was okay .. he double checked with you to be SURE and YOU SAID A-OKAY! But it turns out it wasn't AOK, was it now .... because Si1's have VISIBLE INCLUSIONS. They just do! And, come on, you knew your guy doesn't have perfect eyesight. BUT YOU SENT HIM!!!!!!!! Gah!

Time to get to work and DO THIS RIGHT. Get your little butt down to the jeweler and find a stone you can live with. STOP WISHING FOR MAGIC and suck it up, sister.
 
time to go into the store with your guy and make sure everything is right this time !!
 
Phoenix|1304241000|2908997 said:
May I offer another perspective?

When I first got my 3ct F coloured stone, I thought it was really tinted (yeah, I know!!). But as time went on, I realised I was worrying about nothing. Now, when I look at it, all I see is white white white - there are times when I think it should've been graded an E instead.

Same goes for my 1.52ct G Si1. It has a cloud very near to the table, and it is reflected throughout the stone. So, when you look at it when a loupe, you can see the tiny dark specs but it is 100% eye-clean to me, though I'm sure someone with better eyesight would be able to see them unaided. Initially, I was very bothered by it but over time, it stopped bothering me. Now when I look at it, all I see is this beautiful sparkly diamond. It helps that it's a high G and I paid a good price for it (well before the recent steep price increases). So am happy and my mind is clean! :))

Like others have said, it's difficult to find something so close to the 2ct mark that satisfies every other criterion. If you are able to keep this diamond for a while (perhaps ask for a longer return period - say 45 days or so if possible) from the jeweller, wear it for a while and see how you feel about it then. It's too easy to get caught up in a "diamond-issue" - I know, I've been there and done that more than once. So perhaps something to think about?
This is my experience with spotting inclusions also. I have one SI1 diamond- and for months I couldn't see anything, at all, in the stone even with my very nearsighted vision. Then, one day, I caught the light at just such an angle that one of the inclusions was backlight by a facet in just the right way and it was immediately visible even at arm's length.

I actually love using it as a fidget toy now :rolleyes: - fiddle with it until the inclusion is visible. So yeah, it is possible to have an eye visible inclusion and not hate it. Particularly over time, some people (like me) tend to find them not bothersome and get less hung up over small details like that. But, conversely, a lot of people find the *more* annoying over time. Which one do you think you are?

ETA: FWIW, most SI clarity stones do have inclusions that the eagle eyed can spot in some lighting scenarios, at certain angles, and most especially from the side (since clarity isn't graded from the side at all). That's just their nature. There is quite a price jump between the VS and SI clarities, pretty much for that exact reason. "Eye clean", as used by vendors *typically*, would in fact describe the stone you have. That is- face up, from 8-10 inches away, most people don't see the inclusion. That definitely doesn't mean that YOU as the owner, scrutinizing it with nearsighted vision, aren't going to be able to see anything whatsoever. And, unfortunately, once you spot that something, it's going to be a lot easier to pick out. You'll probably have to go with a VS, if this is not acceptable, unfortunately.
 
Yeah, go back and get a VS2, or personally inspect the next SI1 at all angles and in all lighting.

If you can't bring yourself to do this, then just wait 20 years; the inclusion WILL vanish. :wink2:
 
Circe|1304272274|2909232 said:
Phoenix|1304241000|2908997 said:
May I offer another perspective?

When I first got my 3ct F coloured stone, I thought it was really tinted (yeah, I know!!). But as time went on, I realised I was worrying about nothing. Now, when I look at it, all I see is white white white - there are times when I think it should've been graded an E instead.

Same goes for my 1.52ct G Si1. It has a cloud very near to the table, and it is reflected throughout the stone. So, when you look at it when a loupe, you can see the tiny dark specs but it is 100% eye-clean to me, though I'm sure someone with better eyesight would be able to see them unaided. Initially, I was very bothered by it but over time, it stopped bothering me. Now when I look at it, all I see is this beautiful sparkly diamond. It helps that it's a high G and I paid a good price for it (well before the recent steep price increases). So am happy and my mind is clean! :))

Like others have said, it's difficult to find something so close to the 2ct mark that satisfies every other criterion. If you are able to keep this diamond for a while (perhaps ask for a longer return period - say 45 days or so if possible) from the jeweller, wear it for a while and see how you feel about it then. It's too easy to get caught up in a "diamond-issue" - I know, I've been there and done that more than once. So perhaps something to think about?

I think I'm with Phoenix on this one. Assuming a hard budget, I'd be wroth to have to go down to, like, a 1.6 for a G VS2 over an inclusion that's apparently invisible to all but the eagle-eyed. That said, if you do decide to swap again, there ARE eye-clean SI1s out there: they're just needles in the proverbial haystack. It all depends on how much the inclusion will bother you over the years vs. how stressed out the prospect of another trade makes you now ....

Yes, you can find an SI1 that meets your eye clean standards. I don't think it is such a needle/haystack search. You needen't spend more.

I found over time I got more accustomed to my diamond's color. I did not have the same experience with clarity. Sort of a risk to take, hoping you get used to it, no? And, to be frank, getting used to "tint" in an F or ano inclusion you can see with a loupe is a little different than getting used to a black inclusion in an SI1 diamond that you can see with the naked eye.
 
Hospatogi|1304221529|2908898 said:
Some us are blessed or cursed with eagle eyes. I guess you are one of them and even though Si1 stones are eye clean it may not be eye clean to your specifications so I def think you need at least a VS2 stone as diamondseeker suggested. I know you want to be surprised but I really think you need to inspect your stone so that you know you will be happy with the way it looks! Hope everything gets resolved soon !

The eagle eye thing is true! I have a VS1 asscher and I can spot the flaws...but it also doesn't matter to me because I know that no one else can without a loupe. If it bothers you this much now it always will...
 
decodelighted|1304275777|2909281 said:
I CANNOT BELIEVE after all that you did NOT go to the jeweler and approve your new stone. ARE YOU CRAZY?????? Self-destructive??? Lazy????? What? What gives, cookie?

Geeezus. I truly feel sorry for that poor guy. He ASKED you if Si1 was okay .. he double checked with you to be SURE and YOU SAID A-OKAY! But it turns out it wasn't AOK, was it now .... because Si1's have VISIBLE INCLUSIONS. They just do! And, come on, you knew your guy doesn't have perfect eyesight. BUT YOU SENT HIM!!!!!!!! Gah!

Time to get to work and DO THIS RIGHT. Get your little butt down to the jeweler and find a stone you can live with. STOP WISHING FOR MAGIC and suck it up, sister.

This 100%. if you are posting on here for advice - this is really the advice that should be heeded first. This is something you're picky about (which is fine) - accept that there is no way to create the perfection scenario that you want i.e., that your husband surprises you and picks out a stone that YOU are happy with. Tons of women pick out their stones, rings, etc. - go pick yours out and be happy.
 
I tried to discuss this with him, but he was extremely upset. I'm not going to push to change it if it's going to be heart breaking for him. So I guess I will have no choice but to learn to live with it.
 
At least you got a beautifully cut diamond and were able to exchange your last one for him to upgrade your first e-ring more. Like another poster said, in 20 years you will not see it.
 
I would give him a day or two to cool off and then address it again. I think he's upset because he's embarrassed that you're not happy with it. I'm sure he blames himself for not being able to see what's bothering you so much. I would re-address it by saying that you appreciate all the hard work he has been putting into it but that you'd like to at least visit the jeweler with him to see if there's an alternative together. I would also frame it as your fault for not going with him (not that it is per-se) but just because it alleviates all of the pressure on the stone not being perfect off of him. I personally would not be happy "settling" for something that is so important to me and that bothers me as much as this seems to bother you.
 
confusedaisy|1304356215|2910112 said:
I would give him a day or two to cool off and then address it again. I think he's upset because he's embarrassed that you're not happy with it. I'm sure he blames himself for not being able to see what's bothering you so much. I would re-address it by saying that you appreciate all the hard work he has been putting into it but that you'd like to at least visit the jeweler with him to see if there's an alternative together. I would also frame it as your fault for not going with him (not that it is per-se) but just because it alleviates all of the pressure on the stone not being perfect off of him. I personally would not be happy "settling" for something that is so important to me and that bothers me as much as this seems to bother you.

I should have gone to the jeweler with him, but I know that he wanted to "surprise" me and I wanted to be surprised too. I was married once before and although others are suggesting that I am lazy or self-destructive for not picking out my own stone at this point, I did not pick it out the first time around and there was never any need to change it. I couldn't see any inclusions in that stone, so I didn't think it would be so hard to find something that would be clean to my eye. If I ever thought we'd be going through this, I would have gone. I was just pretty sure that if we discussed it and were clear on the parameters, he could do it on his own. I now realize I must have some pretty crazy vision, I guess.
 
I can understand your fiance being upset. It would be helpful to know what part bothers him. Is it that you aren't happy with what he and the jeweller picked out (and has hurt feelings), or that he doesn't want to have to do the process again? If it is the second part, then you could do the work yourself with the jeweller. If it is the first part, (or something else?) then I think you should back off and let him do this, and make darn sure that the setting is absolutely something you love, which will make the diamond look fabulous. I'm thinking that he may find the whole process of diamond selection stressful... :?
 
I don't have time to read all the good advice here, but I did read YOUR post. As an old and VERY happily married gal I say let the guy have his surprise and feel good about the experience - he cannot even see this speck, so it can't be that obvious. Personally I would NOT hurt his feelings at this point. Enjoy your ring and start planning your wedding and lives together!!! BEST of luck!
 
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