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Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendor?

JaneSmith

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

If people do not post truthful reviews about their experiences by either omitting or fudging details, then PS will not work.
If people pile on in a fanboi rage when a negative or neutral review is posted, then PS will not work.
If people are too scared or ashamed to write about their experiences with vendors and/or share their sparklies, PS will not work.
 

dk168

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

I would only post a review based on my own experience, good or bad, regardless whether the vendor is respected/well-received by the others or not.

Afterall, no one is perfect all the time, and a vendor can have "off" days like everyone else!


DK :))
 

braga123

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

I would, especially because I know that many PSers would force me to reflect on MY actions and MY expectations as a client and maybe even allow me to come to a realization that I hadn't recognized because I was too emotionally attached to the situation. Every transaction is different, and vendors and clients each have a responsibility. By sharing less than ideal reviews, the readers, the clients and the vendors have an opportunity to learn from others' mistakes or their perception of mistakes.
 

Gypsy

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

I have seen vendors get repeat business that frankly they don't deserve because people are afraid to speak their minds on here.

I can think of two vendors in particular where regular PS posters have had horrible experiences, but they didn't want to deal with posting negative reviews on here, so they didn't and all it does is result is more unhappy customers. Which is a shame.

I think you should be honest. And I think the our regular posters have the experience to know when something is truly the vendor's fault, and when something is their own fault. So yes, Indy I think you should. I think you should too Circe.

That said, some of the newer or short term posters do NOT have the experience to know the difference. And then they want to blame the vendors for things that are really their own fault or where they have contributed to the problem, but don't want to take responsibility for the issue. I don't think that's fair. I have not seen regular posters do this. When our regular posters disclose vendor issues, they are typically issues where the vendor really is at fault. For example, see Hudson Hawk's most recent post on RT about vendor communication. She did NOT get slammed. People acknowledged that the situation was not okay, and gave her constructive advice.

Many of you would agree that I am one of the more direct posters on here. I speak my mind pretty much always. And I have vendors I love, and vendors I can't stand. But I value the input of our posters on here, and when they post a thoughtful review of their experiences I do not attack. I also have not seen Aldj or Deco or any of the other 'direct' posters attack either when thoughtful reviews are posted.

So I really don't see the reason for this "everyone will tear me apart if I tell the truth" fear that keeps people quiet when they have legitimate concerns and complaints.
 

AprilBaby

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

I buy from amazon all the time. I read all or most of the feedback first. If a vendor has 85% good feedback and a few neutral/bad feedback it helps to see why. Maybe that problem would not be a problem for me. To see the good and the bad is fair to all. It has certainly influenced my purchase.

Btw, isn't that what PS testimonials is for????
 

Gypsy

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

AprilBaby|1390008576|3595129 said:
I buy from amazon all the time. I read all or most of the feedback first. If a vendor has 85% good feedback and a few neutral/bad feedback it helps to see why. Maybe that problem would not be a problem for me. To see the good and the bad is fair to all. It has certainly influenced my purchase.

Btw, isn't that what PS testimonials is for????


April, totally. Overstock too. And ebay as well. And I value Amazon and Overstock because they don't filter. If its a bad review, it gets posted. If its a good review it gets posted. Places that won't post negative reviews usually lose my business.

I think it is important to read the reviews and see what the concerns are and if you agree with them.

But I find the reviews invaluable.
 

distracts

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

Karl_K|1389986940|3594802 said:
I think people should post honest reviews good/bad/neutral with all the information.
But can people take responsibility when they destroy a ring?

Every time I read, my rings only 3 months old and its crushed flat but I'm super careful and didn't do anything to it so its not my fault and the vendor wont fix it for free, I wanna puke.
These days I don't even bother finish reading them much less answering.

When that happens, it is almost always infrequent/new posters.

It's hard to walk the line between pointing out when people have completely unrealistic expectations and attacking people. I think MOST of the flames are the first gone awry. And the ones that are attacks are pretty easy to ignore since it's usually obvious that someone woke up with a stick up their butt that day.

And I agree with the value of negative feedback - a lot of times reading through the negative feedback makes me MORE likely to buy that thing because I am alright with whatever issues the other people had.
 

nyquestioner

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

I completely understand what certain people have posted here regarding having unfortunate experiences and feeling attacked when they posted neutral/negative feedback, especially when they "dared" to do so regarding certain vendors. For example, I wonder if the tone of Yssie's thread that she referred to would have been a little different if the vendors in question would have been reversed. But I hope that people aren't silenced by that. I hope we can all use this thread to feel empowered to be supportive and constructive in both our critiques and our responses.
 

AprilBaby

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

nyquestioner|1390055769|3595410 said:
I completely understand what certain people have posted here regarding having unfortunate experiences and feeling attacked when they posted neutral/negative feedback, especially when they "dared" to do so regarding certain vendors. For example, I wonder if the tone of Yssie's thread that she referred to would have been a little different if the vendors in question would have been reversed. But I hope that people aren't silenced by that. I hope we can all use this thread to feel empowered to be supportive and constructive in both our critiques and our responses.

Good post!
 

iLander

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

Why not?

In RT they do it all the time . . .
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

Elliot86|1389985434|3594787 said:
Yssie|1389985005|3594778 said:
Elliot86|1389983710|3594767 said:
I have seen many examples of people being on both sides of the fence. Either being criticized for giving an honest review, or being the ones who are critical of another's ring. In fact, I just revisited a thread with such examples because I am considering David Klass for part of my upcoming ring project. His prices aren't insane and he does beautiful work but has been ripped. to. shreds. in a thread about someone's ring. And it can hurt the owner of the piece no matter which side of the fence they are on. Sometimes it is best to say nothing at all if it risks making a person feel horrible about a treasured piece of jewelry.

In someone's SMTB thread?
I don't remember that - I hope that's not the case. SMTB threads aren't the place for anything but gushing.

No, but interestingly enough it was a PS spinoff discussion of the equivalent of a SMTB thread taking place of a different site. I don't mention it to start trouble or reopen any hurt feelings, but rather to point out that sometimes preconceived bias does exist and can sting in both directions. So it is good to be conscious of how personal feelings towards projects and their outcomes might affect the person behind the screen who is wearing it. In the end I would probably not end up sharing my finished piece on here if I decided to go with DK because I know the vendor I am potentially choosing is not well recieved on this site.

I have never used DK, but I think he has some great looking pieces for the price range he operates in. Not everyone wants to spend $5k on a custom setting, especially when maybe they only spent a few hundred on a colored stone, for example. That was why the Show Me your DK thread was started. The last I looked, that thread had stayed pretty positive, right? I hope you will post your finished piece regardless of who makes it! No one should say something negative on a Show Me the Bling thread.
 

OreoRosies86

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

I'm sure it did stay positive, I haven't seen it for myself. As I said in my last comment I used DK as an example to illustrate how easily and quickly a vendor can be "burned" on the forums in both directions, and that it isn't always fair or even coming from a place of firsthand experience. This could just as easily apply to me since I am only considering him for a project and only have words on the internet to go by in considering him for a project. This is getting off topic (my fault!) because I really did NOT intend to make these observations all about DK and how awesome he is or how awesome he isn't. Just that in my own opinion there are the "golden vendors" of PS and those considered second tier. Knowing you've chosen a second tier vendor I guarantee puts people off sharing their lovelies.
 

AprilBaby

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

That's a shame. No one should be put off for using any vendor. Pretties are pretties no matter who made them. If you love it, show it off!
 

Gypsy

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

Elliot86|1390163343|3596307 said:
I'm sure it did stay positive, I haven't seen it for myself. As I said in my last comment I used DK as an example to illustrate how easily and quickly a vendor can be "burned" on the forums in both directions, and that it isn't always fair or even coming from a place of firsthand experience. This could just as easily apply to me since I am only considering him for a project and only have words on the internet to go by in considering him for a project. This is getting off topic (my fault!) because I really did NOT intend to make these observations all about DK and how awesome he is or how awesome he isn't. Just that in my own opinion there are the "golden vendors" of PS and those considered second tier. Knowing you've chosen a second tier vendor I guarantee puts people off sharing their lovelies.


I understand and agree with much what you've written Elliot.

Do you mind if I play devil's advocate for a minute though?

I don't know of one vendor that does everything perfectly. And if you stay on the boards for a while you start to understand what each vendor's strengths and weaknesses are and learn to tailor your requests to the 'right' vendor for the project. You see others projects from conception to completion. And you can judge for yourself what each vendor is good at doing and not good at doing.

You also start to understand the difference between fabrication methods, and start to appreciate which methods are best for which projects.

Finally, you also start to understand pricing. How different vendors have different business models, different overhead, and how much time/effort certain details take (hand engraving, pave, etc.) and you get sense of what fair pricing is for your projects.

Finally, you see other people's posts about the problems they have had (which is why people posting honestly about their issues or lack there of is so helpful with various vendors and you can see for yourself how the various vendor's respond to these issues. And for those vendors that post, you can see what they say and their customer service skills (or lack thereof) first hand.

At that point, you have a great working understanding of the vendors and custom work and you can make knowledgeable choices for yourself.

Now. The large majority of posters on RT are short term posters. They aren't going to be around long enough to get to the point where they can make educated judgements about vendors and custom work.

So they ask for opinions.

Now. It's your job to give that advice.

You can explain in detail each POSSIBLE vendor's strengths and weaknesses and link to old posts of other people's experiences with that vendor that you hope they will read. Then you can explain the differences in fabrication methods. And finally explain the pricing differences that they will see.

And try to get them enough knowledge so that they can make a choice for themselves.

That would be ideal. And you may have time for that occasionally. And the poster you are helping may be the type that wants all that information, is willing to put the time in to understand all of it and put it all together. And all is well.

But say you've been on the RT for for a couple years. And you get requests for the exact same ring over and over and over again. And that's just in one week. And you just don't have the time to write a novel for each poster. And even if you did, you know that most of the people don't WANT you to. They want you to just short hand it for them: tell them where to go to get this done. Let's use the Harry Winston style platinum halo for example.

You seen vendor A turn out 15 of the things perfectly. But they are at the top of the price range. 5k and it's handforged. Never heard of a problem at all.

You've seen vendor B turn out 25 of the things. 18 of them have been perfect. Two had issues but the vendor was great and fixed it and the customer was happy. They cost significantly less at 3,500.
You've seen vendor C turn out 25 of the things. The quality is hit or miss. And the vendor hasn't always been able to make it all okay, and so you've seen few people need to get refunds and then have go somewhere else. Price is really great at 2,500.

Poster asks for vendor recommendations.

You recommend vendors A and B.

Someone else recommends vendor C.

Do you warn the poster about using vendor C?

Of course you do.

Why? It's the responsible thing to do. And you know people new to jewelry don't understand the nuances of fabrications problems that can affect pave work, the reason for the seemingly huge pricing differences they will encounter when they ask for quotes. And you know that many people go with the lowest priced vendor that can get them the 'look' they want, instead of focusing on getting the quality they NEED in a piece that will be worn everyday for years.

And that's why you got the warnings you did. And I am sure I was one of the posters that warned you.

Not because DK, or any other "second tier" vendor can't turn out great work. They can. But they can also turn out work so problematic that people have needed full refunds even after a second or third attempt at the project.


I do agree with your post. There is a 'tier' system. And if you are a sensitive person then I can see why you might feel slighted or fear that people might judge your piece unfairly because of the vendor you used.

But honestly, I can tell you, the most of the PSers on here don't judge a piece by the vendor used. We judge based on the piece itself and if YOU are happy, we are happy for you. All we want is to make sure you get something you love. And our job on RT is to make sure we give you a

I've used etsy vendors, second tier vendors, third tier vendors, and first tier vendors. You name it. I don't judge. And I would MYSELF use David Klass for the right project.

And I would do so with my eyes wide open knowing that there is a chance things might go pear shaped, and I would accept that risk in exchange for the savings.

But when I am wearing my "advisor" hat on RT-- I have to be conservative. Because the person I am talking to is OFTEN looking for me to shortcut things for them, and to substitute MY judgement for theirs. They DO NOT understand the risks, and the only thing that would happen if I recommended or did not warn them about a risky vendor is that they might have a bad experience and then blame PS for it. And I don't want that to happen.


Anyway, I just wanted to give you my perspective. And wrote a novel myself to do so. :wavey:

Whatever you chose, WHOEVER you chose I hope you are thrilled with how your project concludes and post about your experience honestly, and share you pics happily with us.
 

Karl_K

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

Well said Gypsy
I have ran into that dilemma many times over the years.
 

Karl_K

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

I have seen this cycle so many times on PS it is not funny.
A small vendor gets discovered on PS.
They are doing quality work at affordable rates and all the sudden they are buried in work and can not scale fast enough to keep quality up.
You can not just hire 5 top quality benchman that work well with your team in a short period of time.
So you find yourself on a Friday night after a 80 hour week for your entire team with 20 rings due Monday and your team looking daggers at you and walking like zombies.
Quality is going to slip.
Then once you do scale you find you cant personally put much time into any one setting and rings are going out that you never laid eyes on much less worked on and someone is going to mess up.
At the same time your overhead just went through the roof and you have to charge more.
Some make it, many don't and fall by the wayside.
For many getting discovered on PS turns into a nightmare.
 

movie zombie

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

Karl_K|1390238830|3596992 said:
I have seen this cycle so many times on PS it is not funny.
A small vendor gets discovered on PS.
They are doing quality work at affordable rates and all the sudden they are buried in work and can not scale fast enough to keep quality up.
You can not just hire 5 top quality benchman that work well with your team in a short period of time.
So you find yourself on a Friday night after a 80 hour week for your entire team with 20 rings due Monday and your team looking daggers at you and walking like zombies.
Quality is going to slip.
Then once you do scale you find you cant personally put much time into any one setting and rings are going out that you never laid eyes on much less worked on and someone is going to mess up.
At the same time your overhead just went through the roof and you have to charge more.
Some make it, many don't and fall by the wayside.
For many getting discovered on PS turns into a nightmare.


worth repeating.
 

LLJsmom

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

Gypsy|1390205211|3596828 said:
Elliot86|1390163343|3596307 said:
I'm sure it did stay positive, I haven't seen it for myself. As I said in my last comment I used DK as an example to illustrate how easily and quickly a vendor can be "burned" on the forums in both directions, and that it isn't always fair or even coming from a place of firsthand experience. This could just as easily apply to me since I am only considering him for a project and only have words on the internet to go by in considering him for a project. This is getting off topic (my fault!) because I really did NOT intend to make these observations all about DK and how awesome he is or how awesome he isn't. Just that in my own opinion there are the "golden vendors" of PS and those considered second tier. Knowing you've chosen a second tier vendor I guarantee puts people off sharing their lovelies.


I understand and agree with much what you've written Elliot.

Do you mind if I play devil's advocate for a minute though?

I don't know of one vendor that does everything perfectly. And if you stay on the boards for a while you start to understand what each vendor's strengths and weaknesses are and learn to tailor your requests to the 'right' vendor for the project. You see others projects from conception to completion. And you can judge for yourself what each vendor is good at doing and not good at doing.

You also start to understand the difference between fabrication methods, and start to appreciate which methods are best for which projects.

Finally, you also start to understand pricing. How different vendors have different business models, different overhead, and how much time/effort certain details take (hand engraving, pave, etc.) and you get sense of what fair pricing is for your projects.

Finally, you see other people's posts about the problems they have had (which is why people posting honestly about their issues or lack there of is so helpful with various vendors and you can see for yourself how the various vendor's respond to these issues. And for those vendors that post, you can see what they say and their customer service skills (or lack thereof) first hand.

At that point, you have a great working understanding of the vendors and custom work and you can make knowledgeable choices for yourself.

Now. The large majority of posters on RT are short term posters. They aren't going to be around long enough to get to the point where they can make educated judgements about vendors and custom work.

So they ask for opinions.

Now. It's your job to give that advice.

You can explain in detail each POSSIBLE vendor's strengths and weaknesses and link to old posts of other people's experiences with that vendor that you hope they will read. Then you can explain the differences in fabrication methods. And finally explain the pricing differences that they will see.

And try to get them enough knowledge so that they can make a choice for themselves.

That would be ideal. And you may have time for that occasionally. And the poster you are helping may be the type that wants all that information, is willing to put the time in to understand all of it and put it all together. And all is well.

But say you've been on the RT for for a couple years. And you get requests for the exact same ring over and over and over again. And that's just in one week. And you just don't have the time to write a novel for each poster. And even if you did, you know that most of the people don't WANT you to. They want you to just short hand it for them: tell them where to go to get this done. Let's use the Harry Winston style platinum halo for example.

You seen vendor A turn out 15 of the things perfectly. But they are at the top of the price range. 5k and it's handforged. Never heard of a problem at all.

You've seen vendor B turn out 25 of the things. 18 of them have been perfect. Two had issues but the vendor was great and fixed it and the customer was happy. They cost significantly less at 3,500.
You've seen vendor C turn out 25 of the things. The quality is hit or miss. And the vendor hasn't always been able to make it all okay, and so you've seen few people need to get refunds and then have go somewhere else. Price is really great at 2,500.

Poster asks for vendor recommendations.

You recommend vendors A and B.

Someone else recommends vendor C.

Do you warn the poster about using vendor C?

Of course you do.

Why? It's the responsible thing to do. And you know people new to jewelry don't understand the nuances of fabrications problems that can affect pave work, the reason for the seemingly huge pricing differences they will encounter when they ask for quotes. And you know that many people go with the lowest priced vendor that can get them the 'look' they want, instead of focusing on getting the quality they NEED in a piece that will be worn everyday for years.

And that's why you got the warnings you did. And I am sure I was one of the posters that warned you.

Not because DK, or any other "second tier" vendor can't turn out great work. They can. But they can also turn out work so problematic that people have needed full refunds even after a second or third attempt at the project.


I do agree with your post. There is a 'tier' system. And if you are a sensitive person then I can see why you might feel slighted or fear that people might judge your piece unfairly because of the vendor you used.

But honestly, I can tell you, the most of the PSers on here don't judge a piece by the vendor used. We judge based on the piece itself and if YOU are happy, we are happy for you. All we want is to make sure you get something you love. And our job on RT is to make sure we give you a

I've used etsy vendors, second tier vendors, third tier vendors, and first tier vendors. You name it. I don't judge. And I would MYSELF use David Klass for the right project.

And I would do so with my eyes wide open knowing that there is a chance things might go pear shaped, and I would accept that risk in exchange for the savings.

But when I am wearing my "advisor" hat on RT-- I have to be conservative. Because the person I am talking to is OFTEN looking for me to shortcut things for them, and to substitute MY judgement for theirs. They DO NOT understand the risks, and the only thing that would happen if I recommended or did not warn them about a risky vendor is that they might have a bad experience and then blame PS for it. And I don't want that to happen.


Anyway, I just wanted to give you my perspective. And wrote a novel myself to do so. :wavey:

Whatever you chose, WHOEVER you chose I hope you are thrilled with how your project concludes and post about your experience honestly, and share you pics happily with us.

This whole post just needs to put on a reference thread somewhere. So well sums it up! Long, but if only newbies would take the time to read the whole thing, it would totally be worth their time.
 

yssie

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Messages
27,242
Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

Karl_K|1390238830|3596992 said:
I have seen this cycle so many times on PS it is not funny.
A small vendor gets discovered on PS.
They are doing quality work at affordable rates and all the sudden they are buried in work and can not scale fast enough to keep quality up.
You can not just hire 5 top quality benchman that work well with your team in a short period of time.
So you find yourself on a Friday night after a 80 hour week for your entire team with 20 rings due Monday and your team looking daggers at you and walking like zombies.
Quality is going to slip.
Then once you do scale you find you cant personally put much time into any one setting and rings are going out that you never laid eyes on much less worked on and someone is going to mess up.
At the same time your overhead just went through the roof and you have to charge more.
Some make it, many don't and fall by the wayside.
For many getting discovered on PS turns into a nightmare.

Vendors have the right to Just Say No.

Vendors have the responsibility to Just Say No if they know they're in over their heads.

There is no doubt a period of time wherein a vendor doesn't realise how quickly the workload is surpassing capacity, but that will become apparent relatively soon afterward by virtue of being a small business without the layers of middlemen with various agendas separating client and owner/manager. At that point, IMO, the vendor has the responsibility of Just Saying No to new work orders.

Not all vendors are interested in growing as big as possible as fast as possible, nor is that sort of growth necessary for "success", depending on how one defines "success" of course! RDG in NZ is a good example of this: they are a three-man family operation and have no plans to change that, and they have no interest in courting PS business.
 

SB621

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

Gypsy once again you have summed up exactly what I was thinking buy so much better.

Nothing irritates me more then when people get on RT and start advocating their favorite vendor for a project (whether they have worked with them or not). Not one vendor/ bench is G-d so it is so important to pair the right client, vendor and style up so everything matches.
 

yssie

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Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

There are certainly multiple "tiers" of vendors. I'm not sure DK is the best example of this because many of the unflattering posts referencing him here on PS have little to do with quality of work, or his customer service - which from everything I've heard is excellent, but focus on other aspects of his business. That said, I think a lot of this discussion will depend on how we're defining the "tiers"... Quality of work (for a certain type of project/piece) in a vacuum? Quality of work relative to cost? Lowest pricing, alone? Customer service alone? Collective PS reputation? The organizational structure will change depending on what is prioritised and what parameters are used to define bad/good/better/best, and I think that's as it should be.

I've used "top tier" vendors (defined strictly by quality of work) for some projects and "lower tier" vendors (defined, again, strictly by quality of work) for other projects because they often present a more favourable value for money outlook. The problems, IMO, arise when people's assignments of vendors to tiers per their priorities differ from those vendors' actual strengths and weaknesses. However, also IMO, once a consumer has mentally outlined his tiers of vendors, there's often very little anyone else can say to dissuade him or compel him to reconsider and re-order!

Take Gypsy's example of the newbie who just wants to know where to get a top-of-the-line best-that-money-can-buy HW type of halo. Leon Mege, Steven Kirsch, and Victor Canera are most often recommended for this type of ring. Lately they've even been dubbed the 'Big Three'. There's a reason for that, of course: their halos are exquisite! But if excellent customer service is the buyer's top priority, or the buyer doesn't want a HW type halo, are the 'Big Three' still the most appropriate recommendations? I honestly can't count how many times happy clients recommend their vendor(s) for any and all projects regardless of that vendor's strengths and weaknesses... and that's a problem that we, the advisors, should be working to address.

I also don't think anyone should have any reason to be ashamed of - or hesitate to post about - using a "lower tier" vendor for a project! We all have to compromise. My only exception would be if someone chose to work with a vendor whose business practices he disagreed with on ethical grounds (and different people do feel differently about these sorts if things), in which case he effectively compromised his own morals by prioritising something else, and I can only imagine how infrequently that happens!

So, I'll add my ditto to Gypsy's last post.

Gypsy|1390205211|3596828 said:
Elliot86|1390163343|3596307 said:
I'm sure it did stay positive, I haven't seen it for myself. As I said in my last comment I used DK as an example to illustrate how easily and quickly a vendor can be "burned" on the forums in both directions, and that it isn't always fair or even coming from a place of firsthand experience. This could just as easily apply to me since I am only considering him for a project and only have words on the internet to go by in considering him for a project. This is getting off topic (my fault!) because I really did NOT intend to make these observations all about DK and how awesome he is or how awesome he isn't. Just that in my own opinion there are the "golden vendors" of PS and those considered second tier. Knowing you've chosen a second tier vendor I guarantee puts people off sharing their lovelies.


I understand and agree with much what you've written Elliot.

Do you mind if I play devil's advocate for a minute though?

I don't know of one vendor that does everything perfectly. And if you stay on the boards for a while you start to understand what each vendor's strengths and weaknesses are and learn to tailor your requests to the 'right' vendor for the project. You see others projects from conception to completion. And you can judge for yourself what each vendor is good at doing and not good at doing.

You also start to understand the difference between fabrication methods, and start to appreciate which methods are best for which projects.

Finally, you also start to understand pricing. How different vendors have different business models, different overhead, and how much time/effort certain details take (hand engraving, pave, etc.) and you get sense of what fair pricing is for your projects.

Finally, you see other people's posts about the problems they have had (which is why people posting honestly about their issues or lack there of is so helpful with various vendors and you can see for yourself how the various vendor's respond to these issues. And for those vendors that post, you can see what they say and their customer service skills (or lack thereof) first hand.

At that point, you have a great working understanding of the vendors and custom work and you can make knowledgeable choices for yourself.

Now. The large majority of posters on RT are short term posters. They aren't going to be around long enough to get to the point where they can make educated judgements about vendors and custom work.

So they ask for opinions.

Now. It's your job to give that advice.

You can explain in detail each POSSIBLE vendor's strengths and weaknesses and link to old posts of other people's experiences with that vendor that you hope they will read. Then you can explain the differences in fabrication methods. And finally explain the pricing differences that they will see.

And try to get them enough knowledge so that they can make a choice for themselves.

That would be ideal. And you may have time for that occasionally. And the poster you are helping may be the type that wants all that information, is willing to put the time in to understand all of it and put it all together. And all is well.

But say you've been on the RT for for a couple years. And you get requests for the exact same ring over and over and over again. And that's just in one week. And you just don't have the time to write a novel for each poster. And even if you did, you know that most of the people don't WANT you to. They want you to just short hand it for them: tell them where to go to get this done. Let's use the Harry Winston style platinum halo for example.

You seen vendor A turn out 15 of the things perfectly. But they are at the top of the price range. 5k and it's handforged. Never heard of a problem at all.

You've seen vendor B turn out 25 of the things. 18 of them have been perfect. Two had issues but the vendor was great and fixed it and the customer was happy. They cost significantly less at 3,500.
You've seen vendor C turn out 25 of the things. The quality is hit or miss. And the vendor hasn't always been able to make it all okay, and so you've seen few people need to get refunds and then have go somewhere else. Price is really great at 2,500.

Poster asks for vendor recommendations.

You recommend vendors A and B.

Someone else recommends vendor C.

Do you warn the poster about using vendor C?

Of course you do.

Why? It's the responsible thing to do. And you know people new to jewelry don't understand the nuances of fabrications problems that can affect pave work, the reason for the seemingly huge pricing differences they will encounter when they ask for quotes. And you know that many people go with the lowest priced vendor that can get them the 'look' they want, instead of focusing on getting the quality they NEED in a piece that will be worn everyday for years.

And that's why you got the warnings you did. And I am sure I was one of the posters that warned you.

Not because DK, or any other "second tier" vendor can't turn out great work. They can. But they can also turn out work so problematic that people have needed full refunds even after a second or third attempt at the project.


I do agree with your post. There is a 'tier' system. And if you are a sensitive person then I can see why you might feel slighted or fear that people might judge your piece unfairly because of the vendor you used.

But honestly, I can tell you, the most of the PSers on here don't judge a piece by the vendor used. We judge based on the piece itself and if YOU are happy, we are happy for you. All we want is to make sure you get something you love. And our job on RT is to make sure we give you a

I've used etsy vendors, second tier vendors, third tier vendors, and first tier vendors. You name it. I don't judge. And I would MYSELF use David Klass for the right project.

And I would do so with my eyes wide open knowing that there is a chance things might go pear shaped, and I would accept that risk in exchange for the savings.

But when I am wearing my "advisor" hat on RT-- I have to be conservative. Because the person I am talking to is OFTEN looking for me to shortcut things for them, and to substitute MY judgement for theirs. They DO NOT understand the risks, and the only thing that would happen if I recommended or did not warn them about a risky vendor is that they might have a bad experience and then blame PS for it. And I don't want that to happen.


Anyway, I just wanted to give you my perspective. And wrote a novel myself to do so. :wavey:

Whatever you chose, WHOEVER you chose I hope you are thrilled with how your project concludes and post about your experience honestly, and share you pics happily with us.
 

SB621

Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
7,864
Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

Well that sort of leads back to the problems Yssie. Everyone who posts on RT could be an advisor, how do newbies know the difference from the people who give great neutral advise (what I would define as an advisor) from vendor fans? BTW I don't see myself as either. 8)

On a few occassions I have spoken out about constantly recommending the same vendor for all types of works and gotten rather rude/ immature responses from vendor fan posters. Rather frustrating.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Aug 14, 2009
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27,242
Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

I know - and I really think that's part of the problem: that it *is* so cyclic!

I personally try to only recommend vendors I've had some experience with, or state that other people have had good experiences with other vendors. That not all vendors are good at everything at all pricepoints is just a fact, and to deny that fact is completely unproductive!

I don't have a good answer to how newbies should distinguish between advise and blind fanatisicm. Post count is the obvious first metric but anyone who's actively participated in RT or CS for more than a few months knows firsthand just how misleading *that* can be! I don't know that there is a good answer...

There was a thread a couple of months ago that was immensely frustrating - a newbie was looking for advice on stones, vendors, you name it. The usual scenario! The first responder was someone who had recently bought stone and setting from BGD. And the answer to ALL of OP's questions was "buy from BGD!!!", and other long-timers came in afterward to suggest alternatives but that first responder's opinion was quite clearly weighted more because he'd just been through the same thing himself, he'd just walked the mile in those shoes, yadda yadda... I like BGD. But for that particular project, given that particular OP's stated priorities and goals, BGD and WF wouldn't have made my top five recommendations. I've noticed that pretty frequently actually, that the first few responders' opinions are the ones OP pays the most attention to, whether or not that attention is merited...

I would definitely consider you an "advisor" by any definition ::) I know that you advise from experience, whether or not I know exactly what all those experiences are.
But that's the same cycle - because how can someone who hasn't spent some time here know that you're the sort of person who does only advise from experience?
 

packrat

Super_Ideal_Rock
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10,614
Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

Interesting thread. I admit, I didn't post in a FB group right away after DK made a ring for me, b/c of who made it. I should have it in a couple weeks tho, so I could probably start a thread here.

It would be nice to have a thread that had like...lists. CAD (explanation of what that is)=X, X, X Cast (explanation)=Y, Y ,Y Hand forged (explanation)=Z, Z, Z Pros/cons of each type, that kinda thing. Then another list of diamond vendors, Old cuts (explanation)=OWD, JbEG, etc Modern= such and such. Maybe setting types, Antique= Modern=

I dunno..something so things were all laid out.
 

OreoRosies86

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
3,463
Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

Wow, so many awesome responses! Gypsy thank you for laying everything out so neatly and in depth. I totally understand that time on the forums=gleaned knowledge of who makes the best of [insert specialty here] =certain vendors keep being mentioned=preferences happen=cycle of vendors continue.

Packrat's latest post really illustrates what I have taken away from the forums and it is not to in ANY way insult the amazing people here who give invaluable advice. Maybe it would help to streamline things a bit for newbies like myself? For instance, have a series of stickies like "WTB diamond under $5,000"
"WTB Antique Diamond"
"WTB Setting Under $2000"

I realize this idea is sort of half baked and could potentially be confusing, and I do not in any way want to be that person who rolls into a forum with many 10+ year members and imply that things need to change! :lol: I'm just saying that maybe if there was a safe space where budget parameters were already firmly set, it wouldn't be so much of a "This vendor is the best, this vendor is a cut-rate who makes cheapy knock offs" vibe. That can be really intimidating!

That said, everything Gypsy and others said makes 100% sense and was very eye opening and understandable. Ultimately am I going to complain that so many people here and generous with their time and experience? Of course not :wavey:
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
40,225
Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

packrat|1390252667|3597155 said:
Interesting thread. I admit, I didn't post in a FB group right away after DK made a ring for me, b/c of who made it. I should have it in a couple weeks tho, so I could probably start a thread here.

It would be nice to have a thread that had like...lists. CAD (explanation of what that is)=X, X, X Cast (explanation)=Y, Y ,Y Hand forged (explanation)=Z, Z, Z Pros/cons of each type, that kinda thing. Then another list of diamond vendors, Old cuts (explanation)=OWD, JbEG, etc Modern= such and such. Maybe setting types, Antique= Modern=

I dunno..something so things were all laid out.


Hi Packrat, It would be nice to do that, but A) it's a lot of work. I certainly don't have time to do it.

But B) again, you are assuming the newbies would read it. And understand it.

Most will not read it.

And C) not all of the stuff is objective. Some is subjective. So if you posted a that vendors A, B and C are the recommended for vintage settings and ONE person had a nice vintage setting by F, they would argue with you. Then you have to explain THAT.

And you would need to update it and keep it as a live document. Which means SOMEONE would have to take that on.

And, more importantly, newbies would have to read ALL of the updates as well.

Most just don't want to do that.

When we get a sense that newbies want more information (follow up questions about fabrication, etc.) we give it to them.

But again, most just... don't.
 

minousbijoux

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
12,804
Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

packrat|1390252667|3597155 said:
Interesting thread. I admit, I didn't post in a FB group right away after DK made a ring for me, b/c of who made it. I should have it in a couple weeks tho, so I could probably start a thread here.

It would be nice to have a thread that had like...lists. CAD (explanation of what that is)=X, X, X Cast (explanation)=Y, Y ,Y Hand forged (explanation)=Z, Z, Z Pros/cons of each type, that kinda thing. Then another list of diamond vendors, Old cuts (explanation)=OWD, JbEG, etc Modern= such and such. Maybe setting types, Antique= Modern=

I dunno..something so things were all laid out.

This is a great idea. Along with Gypsy's post, it could be the start of a great pinned thread. That way, instead of repeating yourselves over and over ad infinitum for newcomers, :roll: they could be directed to the pinned thread and then you all could just be answering the follow up questions. It would be a great service to people like me, too intimidated by the whole process to even contemplate a bespoke piece.
 

WinkHPD

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Messages
7,516
Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

Gypsy|1390256169|3597190 said:
packrat|1390252667|3597155 said:
Interesting thread. I admit, I didn't post in a FB group right away after DK made a ring for me, b/c of who made it. I should have it in a couple weeks tho, so I could probably start a thread here.

It would be nice to have a thread that had like...lists. CAD (explanation of what that is)=X, X, X Cast (explanation)=Y, Y ,Y Hand forged (explanation)=Z, Z, Z Pros/cons of each type, that kinda thing. Then another list of diamond vendors, Old cuts (explanation)=OWD, JbEG, etc Modern= such and such. Maybe setting types, Antique= Modern=

I dunno..something so things were all laid out.


Hi Packrat, It would be nice to do that, but A) it's a lot of work. I certainly don't have time to do it.

But B) again, you are assuming the newbies would read it. And understand it.

Most will not read it.

And C) not all of the stuff is objective. Some is subjective. So if you posted a that vendors A, B and C are the recommended for vintage settings and ONE person had a nice vintage setting by F, they would argue with you. Then you have to explain THAT.

And you would need to update it and keep it as a live document. Which means SOMEONE would have to take that on.

And, more importantly, newbies would have to read ALL of the updates as well.

Most just don't want to do that.

When we get a sense that newbies want more information (follow up questions about fabrication, etc.) we give it to them.

But again, most just... don't.

Well said Gypsy. I was going to try to post something along those lines but fortunately you said it better.

Things always change. Even if your analysis was dead bang on today, but a few months ago some of the vendors will be better, some will have fallen for the trap of cheap labor in China and be worse and of course, some will be just as they were, which is also the beginning of the kiss of death, for in business if we are not improving we are dieing. I think as imperfect as it is, it is best to keep the recommendations current and on a personal experience label.

There will always be errors made but the majority if the information will be closer to correct than if it was a static document.

Wink
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

Wink, absolutely.


To give an example. ERD.

For a while ERD was CAD only.
Then they added a handforged bench.
And they posted a ton of great HW halos. And their pricing was fantastic.

Then they were getting recommended 10 times a week for the plethora of HW halos everyone wants.

That resulted in a LOT of of orders for them and ultimately there were a series of misfires. 3 or 4 settings in a row had issues. The issues were varied. But the general gist was the same: lack of attention to details and flub in communication between the people taking the orders and the bench's executing the order.

People posted about it. I saw a pattern. I stopped recommending them. And when people recommended them, I started warning people.

ERD got the feedback from the forum. They addressed it fixed it.

Now I am recommending them again. And I'm not adding warnings because there have been no recent issues reported.

It's a fluid thing. And the fact that ERD DID respond and address and fix the problem is the reason they are a 'first tier' vendor. They've earned our trust.
 

packrat

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
10,614
Re: Would you post a neutral review of a well-regarded vendo

Just was more talking out loud that it would be nice, not that it's feasible!
 
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