will Obama be a good President?

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/5/2008 7:48:45 PM
Author: coatimundi
Things that are worse than higher taxes:



1. A 2.5 trillion dollar (and counting) occupation of Iraq.


2. 4,000 US service people dead (and counting) icasualties.org


3. A continuing uncontrolled surge in worldwide oil prices.


4. A deepening worldwide food crisis.


5. Presidential executive order circumventing laws against wiretapping US citizens.


6. A President violating his inaugural day oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America.


7. Housing market meltdown.


8. The Vice President approving the exposure of a covert CIA operative. (An act of treason)


9. An 8 year denial of the human impact on greenhouse gases resulting in global climate change. (this changed as of last week with the release of the US Commission on Science and Technology report)


10. Healthcare based on PROFIT.



I''ll take emergency services, paved roads, and the post office any day.

I mean god Coati, you sound like one of those nasty Dems or something.

 

[FrekeChild]

Breathe Moon.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/5/2008 7:48:45 PM
Author: coatimundi
Things that are worse than higher taxes:


10. Healthcare based on PROFIT.


I''ll take emergency services, paved roads, and the post office any day.

when did capitalism became illegal in the U.S. ?

 

[diamondfan]

I am not against profit. Health care is a tricky one, it should not be a luxury but tends to be that way, as the rich can get appts and in to specialists that others may not have access to. If there is to be profit in healthcare, do things fairly, and ensure all people have access to quality healthcare even if they cannot afford to spend a load of money. A lot of cost in health care is crap. Go to a hospital and be given TWO TYLENOL and pay 20.00 or whatever. THAT has nothing to do with clinical skill, facilities, training, equipment etc. Pure gouging plain and simple.

 

[miraclesrule]

I know that I am supposed to be concentrating on finding my MOB dress because I have less than 2 months, and concentrating on new shoes for my lovely daughter whose dress came in too big and when they pulled it up to take it in, it shortened so she pretty much will need flats.....BUT, I just can''t resist political discussions.

Thank you for the book recommendations because I really want to read controversial books on the plane next week while on a business trip. It will be the perfect segue for discussions of my passion for politics and the ignorance of the American populace.

I am a total Rational, according to the two tests, so the antirationalism theme hooked me in..BIG time.

The Slate article is SPOT ON!! What bothers me the most is that people don''t comprehend that they are being manipulated by the media, the pundits, the politicians. It''s infuriating to me, in addition to being a blatant insult, to assume that I can only handle a 5 minute sound bite and think that the nations problems are that simple. Anyone who has any depth of knowledge can appreciate the complexity, and gravity, of the threats to our survival and the tremendous work that it will require in order to address the issues and create long-term solutions.

I used to get as pissed as MoonWater (breathe, but then get your arse back on the thread), but then I remember "Lord of the Flies" and realize that most adults never mature beyond the physical.

That is why I have lost a great deal of respect for formal education. It''s not that I don''t believe it is beneficial. It''s because I believe that many people feel that once they make their grade in school, they don''t need to learn anymore. Facts are facts. Yet, humans interpret them according to their conditioning, education, environment, but rarely....RARELY...on their experience. The exception being the human propensity for projection of their fears, insecurities, mistaken assumptions, and ignorance onto innocent targets.

What was my point? I don''t think I had one. I just wanted to rant.

 

[iluvcarats]

Date: 6/5/2008 11:36:46 PM
Author: diamondfan
I am not against profit. Health care is a tricky one, it should not be a luxury but tends to be that way, as the rich can get appts and in to specialists that others may not have access to. If there is to be profit in healthcare, do things fairly, and ensure all people have access to quality healthcare even if they cannot afford to spend a load of money. A lot of cost in health care is crap. Go to a hospital and be given TWO TYLENOL and pay 20.00 or whatever. THAT has nothing to do with clinical skill, facilities, training, equipment etc. Pure gouging plain and simple.

I agree with you that everyone should have health care, but if drs. and nurses don''t make a good salary, then I can''t imagine too many would sign up for the job. It is a lot of training to go through, and a very stressful job, and even though the insurance companies should be the ones not making a ridiculous profit, I am certain that with their $$$, and their lobbies, the docs would be the most affected. There is no way drs. here are going to accept socialized medicine, so the quality and the quantity of health care providers will either decrease, or the specialists will refuse insurance and the health care mess will continue. The "gouging" comes from the hospitals trying to make up for treating so many uninsured peope in the ED.

 

[diamondfan]

It all snowballs. But good insurance coverage should not be out of reach the way it is. Look, my entire family is/was in the medical profession. It is long and grueling to train. I have NO issues with doctors making a nice living, which honestly most are NOT now. Maybe plastic surgeons who get paid in full no matter what, they make money, but most doctors are overworked and for all the hours and training do NOT make tons. My dad and uncles were in practice decades before all this HMO stuff started. They did well and managed their practices amazingly. Nowadays, it is really a tough road. Many many doctors in PA are leaving due to malpractice insurance premiums. It is nearly impossible to find an OB anymore, because of the laws in PA they are leaving in droves. My comment is NOT about begrudging good and skilled doctors from making money, it is about the insurance companies, how they cause people to not have coverage, which in turn causes bills to go unpaid, which in turn causes sky high hospital costs being passed on to those who HAVE insurance? What do you do if you are in a facility for mental issues and you get 60 days MAX? But you are not well enough to leave, and your family cannot pay the 25,000 and up a month it costs to stay there? Those are the things I think are terrible. I know people who spent a few hours in an ER, went in an ambulance, had a couple of tests and were sent home and have bills in the multiple thousands. Did not even stay one night. Totally insane to me.

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 6/5/2008 11:28:57 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/5/2008 7:48:45 PM

Author: coatimundi

Things that are worse than higher taxes:



10. Healthcare based on PROFIT.



I'll take emergency services, paved roads, and the post office any day.

when did capitalism became illegal in the U.S. ?

Health care is a right not a privilege.

When did it become ethical for corporations to profit off of people's illnesses?

Of all the ways to make money, surely, the genius of capitalism can come up with a different method.

Making money is not an excuse for exploiting sick Americans.

eta: You seem like you understand capitalism... Buy some oranges this week? Guess who picked 'em? Go to a restaurant this week? Have your car washed? Anybody work on your lawn this week? Obviously, capitalism is very "legal," unlike the labor necessary to keep it profitable.

 

[iluvcarats]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:01:57 AM
Author: diamondfan
It all snowballs. But good insurance coverage should not be out of reach the way it is. Look, my entire family is/was in the medical profession. It is long and grueling to train. I have NO issues with doctors making a nice living, which honestly most are NOT now. Maybe plastic surgeons who get paid in full no matter what, they make money, but most doctors are overworked and for all the hours and training do NOT make tons. My dad and uncles were in practice decades before all this HMO stuff started. They did well and managed their practices amazingly. Nowadays, it is really a tough road. Many many doctors in PA are leaving due to malpractice insurance premiums. It is nearly impossible to find an OB anymore, because of the laws in PA they are leaving in droves. My comment is NOT about begrudging good and skilled doctors from making money, it is about the insurance companies, how they cause people to not have coverage, which in turn causes bills to go unpaid, which in turn causes sky high hospital bills. What do you do if you are in a facility for mental issues and you get 60 days MAX? But you are not well enough to leave, and your family cannot pay the 25,000 and up it costs to stay there? Those are the things I think are terrible. I know people who spent a few hours in an ER, went in an ambulance, had a couple of tests and were sent home and have bills in the multiple thousands. Did not even stay one night. Totally insane to me.

I absolutely agree with everything you say. And I also agree that docs deserve what they make. They earn it. But the insurance companies, who are a business and always profit or they wouldn''t exsist, will find a way to keep their profits, and will cut reimbursments further. This will trickle down to the already frustrated docs, who will hang up their stethescopes, and we will all suffer the consequences. You are absolutely right that sick people should not be denied health care. I just can''t figure out how the government is going to get involved without making it even worse. It is a big mess, and if you ask me, I think our veterans deserve to be first in line for good health care.

BTW Many hospitals aren''t profiting, and that is why so many are closing. We have lost 2 here in the last 5 years, so the remaining ones are bursting at the seems...

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/5/2008 2:44:44 PM
Author: diamondfan
He invigorated the young to come out and register and be interested, which if nothing else would have happened is amazing. Many young people do not get into the political process too much and this is helping turn the trend.

that''s reason why McCain will win in Nov. not enough young voters show up at the poll.

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:17:27 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/5/2008 2:44:44 PM

Author: diamondfan

He invigorated the young to come out and register and be interested, which if nothing else would have happened is amazing. Many young people do not get into the political process too much and this is helping turn the trend.

that's reason why McCain will win in Nov. not enough young voters show up at the poll.

Obviously you're not aware of the Democratic registration numbers for this election cycle.

 

[diamondfan]

Hospitals are in tough shape. They go unpaid sometimes, and cannot provide certain services anymore.

I am NOT a proponent of big gov't, I am much more a Republican that way. But I also know, from having friends and family in Canada, that their system has many flaws too. That is why I say things are so complex, and there is not one answer. Should I pay 20.00 for a tylenol? Is that helping things in any way? Should good doctors and prompt appointments for life saving tests and scans be only for the wealthy? Of course not. I am blessed to have the means and connections in the medical community that I do, luckily with all my health challenges, as I have had to go to countless doctors, schedule MRI's, X rays, blood work...it would be horrific if it took forever to get in. And again, equipment is costly, training is time consuming and costly, so go ahead, make money. But let's keep things in the realm of reasonable. When doctors are being driven out and hospitals are closing and kids cannot even AFFORD to be trained to become doctors, let alone make a living, we are in serious doo doo.

 

[iluvcarats]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:22:39 AM
Author: diamondfan
Hospitals are in tough shape. They go unpaid sometimes, and cannot provide certain services anymore.


I am NOT a proponent of big gov''t, I am much more a Republican that way. But I also know, from having friends and family in Canada, that their system has many flaws too. That is why I say things are so complex, and there is not one answer. Should I pay 20.00 for a tylenol? Is that helping things in any way? Should good doctors and prompt appointments for life saving tests and scans be only for the wealthy? Of course not. I am blessed to have the means and connections in the medical community that I do, luckily with all my health challenges, as I have had to go to countless doctors, schedule MRI''s, X rays, blood work...it would be horrific if it took forever to get in. And again, equipment is costly, training is time consuming and costly, so go ahead, make money. But let''s keep things in the realm of reasonable. When doctors are being driven out and hospitals are closing and kids cannot even AFFORD to be trained to become doctors, let alone make a living, we are in serious doo doo.

Ditto!
I bet if McCain is elected Viagra will be FREE!!! hehehe

 

[miraclesrule]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:01:57 AM
Author: diamondfan
It all snowballs. But good insurance coverage should not be out of reach the way it is. Look, my entire family is/was in the medical profession. It is long and grueling to train. I have NO issues with doctors making a nice living, which honestly most are NOT now. Maybe plastic surgeons who get paid in full no matter what, they make money, but most doctors are overworked and for all the hours and training do NOT make tons. My dad and uncles were in practice decades before all this HMO stuff started. They did well and managed their practices amazingly. Nowadays, it is really a tough road. Many many doctors in PA are leaving due to malpractice insurance premiums. It is nearly impossible to find an OB anymore, because of the laws in PA they are leaving in droves. My comment is NOT about begrudging good and skilled doctors from making money, it is about the insurance companies, how they cause people to not have coverage, which in turn causes bills to go unpaid, which in turn causes sky high hospital bills. What do you do if you are in a facility for mental issues and you get 60 days MAX? But you are not well enough to leave, and your family cannot pay the 25,000 and up it costs to stay there? Those are the things I think are terrible. I know people who spent a few hours in an ER, went in an ambulance, had a couple of tests and were sent home and have bills in the multiple thousands. Did not even stay one night. Totally insane to me.

Sometimes, DiamondFan, I just want to reach out and hug you so hard that I squeeze your guts out!!

I have been connected to the health care industry since my daughter was an infant. I was even self-employed...wait, I was a sole proprieter of a medical billing and bookkeeping company back in the day when the medical industry was transitioning from pay-for-service to HMO "bullying". I call it that because you obviously know what happened to the medical professionals back in the early 80''s. Not only did most physicians find themselves losing the ability to exercise their expertise in properly diagnosising and treating their patients, but they were forced to become pawns in the entire HMO industry, or abandon their career. It was very rare, if not impossible, to continue their practice and make a decent living. A physician HAD to try to adapt to the manipulation of the industry.

Over time, you are correct, the only doctors who are thriving, are those who still get fee for service. Those would be cash pay plastic surgeons, or those involved in the casualty market, such as workers'' compensation/liability. These are not usually the most proficient and passionate medical professionals, but the most ambitious and self interested medical professionals. There are exceptions, of course, and even those that get sucked into the casualty industry are ignornant of their pawn status, as they are paid a pittance and the middle man is making a windfall.

OMG, please don''t get me started. MoonWater is right...I need to write a book. Grrrrrrrr........
I can tell you stories about the behind the scenes of Medicare, Medical, Medicaid, Champus, Worker''s Compensation, Medical, Legal, Labor, that would make your toes curl.

Although I have to say that there are still many competent surgeons who are compensated for the life-saving and quality of life saving intention and talent that prompted them to seek a career in the medical field. But not enough... Not nearly enough.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:21:46 AM
Author: coatimundi

Date: 6/6/2008 12:17:27 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/5/2008 2:44:44 PM
Author: diamondfan
He invigorated the young to come out and register and be interested, which if nothing else would have happened is amazing. Many young people do not get into the political process too much and this is helping turn the trend.

that's reason why McCain will win in Nov. not enough young voters show up at the poll.

Obviously you're not aware of the Democratic registration numbers for this election cycle.

He's unaware of more than that unfortunately.

Speaking as a college student, I can say with plenty of confidence that there is a huge following for Obama on my campus, and I'm sure that remains true for the rest of the country.

Did you know DF that McCain is doing poorly financially? Did you know that it's because his financial backers are bigwig Republicans who are limited to how much they can contribute? Did you know that Obama is doing great financially? Did you know that it's because his online following is making contributions of whatever they can afford (a few dollars and up) and that they have no real limit because they contribute so little, but that the number of contributors is going up? And that a lot of his online followers and contributors are YOUNG? As in 18 and up?

Speaking as a young person (26) I'll say it again- I've never seen anything like it. I don't know that I will again.

I think, DF, that you need to get your head out of the sand. Because right now, I'm unimpressed with all of the "arguments" you've made so far.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:22:39 AM
Author: diamondfan
Hospitals are in tough shape. They go unpaid sometimes, and cannot provide certain services anymore.

I am NOT a proponent of big gov''t, I am much more a Republican that way. But I also know, from having friends and family in Canada, that their system has many flaws too. That is why I say things are so complex, and there is not one answer. Should I pay 20.00 for a tylenol? Is that helping things in any way? Should good doctors and prompt appointments for life saving tests and scans be only for the wealthy? Of course not. I am blessed to have the means and connections in the medical community that I do, luckily with all my health challenges, as I have had to go to countless doctors, schedule MRI''s, X rays, blood work...it would be horrific if it took forever to get in. And again, equipment is costly, training is time consuming and costly, so go ahead, make money. But let''s keep things in the realm of reasonable. When doctors are being driven out and hospitals are closing and kids cannot even AFFORD to be trained to become doctors, let alone make a living, we are in serious doo doo.

I went to the hospital last night and paid $700 to be told that my chest pain was a strained muscle. I paid $400 last month for a simple dermatoligist appointment and a trip to the gyno.

So, I completely agree with whoever said healthcare is a RIGHT. It almost makes me team Hillary.

A co-worker was trying to explain something to me the other day...

I don''t know how true it is, but he he basically said that insurance companies and uninsured people get two different bills.
Say an uninsured person got had a procedure that was 10 grand.

An insured person''s bill would be 5 grand, knocking 50% off right off the bat just because they have the insurance.
Then the insurance company pays for like 80% of it (or whatever your plan entails), and you are left with the rest.
He said that Doctor''s charge ridiculous amounts for procedures for the uninsured because so many of them don''t pay...and the doctor is able to write off the huge amounts.

Again...no idea how true that is. But if it is, it''s pretty sad. At least for broke little ole'' me.

BUT...I''ll have insurance in THREE weeks.

I said in another thread I''m going to go "health shopping". I''ve put off a lot of things for years due to the costs of being treated in this country. Eye problems..anxiety...you name it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:06:50 AM
Author: coatimundi

Date: 6/5/2008 11:28:57 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/5/2008 7:48:45 PM

Author: coatimundi

Things that are worse than higher taxes:



10. Healthcare based on PROFIT.



I''ll take emergency services, paved roads, and the post office any day.

when did capitalism became illegal in the U.S. ?

Health care is a right not a privilege.

When did it become ethical for corporations to profit off of people''s illnesses?

Of all the ways to make money, surely, the genius of capitalism can come up with a different method.

Making money is not an excuse for exploiting sick Americans.

eta: You seem like you understand capitalism... Buy some oranges this week? Guess who picked ''em? Go to a restaurant this week? Have your car washed? Anybody work on your lawn this week? Obviously, capitalism is very ''legal,'' unlike the labor necessary to keep it profitable.

no simple solution....if we control the drug co''s profits.these drug co''s then wouldn''t invest as much time and dollars towards research. we may never find a cure for many of the diseases that are out there in this world.

 

[coatimundi_org]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:38:58 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/6/2008 12:06:50 AM

Author: coatimundi

Date: 6/5/2008 11:28:57 PM

Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/5/2008 7:48:45 PM


Author: coatimundi


Things that are worse than higher taxes:




10. Healthcare based on PROFIT.




I'll take emergency services, paved roads, and the post office any day.

when did capitalism became illegal in the U.S. ?

Health care is a right not a privilege.


When did it become ethical for corporations to profit off of people's illnesses?


Of all the ways to make money, surely, the genius of capitalism can come up with a different method.

Making money is not an excuse for exploiting sick Americans.


eta: You seem like you understand capitalism... Buy some oranges this week? Guess who picked 'em? Go to a restaurant this week? Have your car washed? Anybody work on your lawn this week? Obviously, capitalism is very 'legal,' unlike the labor necessary to keep it profitable.

no simple solution....if we control the drug co's profits.these drug co's then wouldn't invest as much time and dollars towards research. we may never find a cure for many of the diseases that are out there in this world.

That's not even what I'm talking about.

This is what I'm talking about:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-insure200628mar28,0,5421010.story

eta: Ever had your health insurance revoked because of a preexisting condition like an ingrown toenail? If not, then you probably can't relate to those who have. I'm talking about medicine as big business.

And by the way, under the Bush administration, big business IS big government.

Count the lobbyists in John McCain's campaign.

Business as usual.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:38:58 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
no simple solution....if we control the drug co''s profits.these drug co''s then wouldn''t invest as much time and dollars towards research. we may never find a cure for many of the diseases that are out there in this world.

You don''t want to get me started on curing the diseases out in the world. Stem Cell Research ring a bell?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:26:58 AM
Author: iluvcarats

I bet if McCain is elected Viagra will be FREE!!! hehehe

nahhh...you''re thinking about Bob Dole. remember, McCain ain''t healthy enough to use viagra.

 

[iluvcarats]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:42:12 AM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 6/6/2008 12:38:58 AM

Author: Dancing Fire

no simple solution....if we control the drug co''s profits.these drug co''s then wouldn''t invest as much time and dollars towards research. we may never find a cure for many of the diseases that are out there in this world.

You don''t want to get me started on curing the diseases out in the world. Stem Cell Research ring a bell?

RIGHT ON SISTER!!
but George Bush is still "waiting for the jury to get back on evolution"
Guess what George? Jury''s back - you''re NOT evolved!

 

[miraclesrule]

::::Begin Drug Company Rant::::::::::

The drug companies don''t care as much about the people as they do a profit. They invest less money in research and development for an antibiotic for a "superbug" than they do in a drug for chronic illnesses such as diabetes, obesity, hypertension, hormone therapy, etc... Why? Because if you take a few pills for a few weeks that will cure you, they don''t make as much $$$ as they do if you need to take their pills for a lifetime.

A human is billed, and is required to pay, over 3 times more for the same medication that the same human has to purchase for their pet...FOR THE SAME MEDICATION!!

They also don''t test equally on men and women. They also don''t care about the long term side effects, so they let generic drugs imitate them after 10 years...in order to share the burden of any legal consequences of the negative side effects of their intial patent.

Dont'' get me started.

::::::::end rant:::::::::::::

 

[iluvcarats]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:46:11 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 6/6/2008 12:26:58 AM

Author: iluvcarats



I bet if McCain is elected Viagra will be FREE!!! hehehe

nahhh...you''re thinking about Bob Dole. remember, McCain ain''t healthy enough to use viagra.

Well at least we agree on something.....

 

[luckystar112]

style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 86px">Date: 6/6/2008 12:34:59 AM
Author: FrekeChild

He''s unaware of more than that unfortunately.

I don''t understand why you have to be so rude.

Perhaps that''s why republicans, myself included, aren''t participating in the McCain thread.

I know you haven''t said anything to me personally, but I''m getting a strong "know it all" vibe from you, and the way you (and others) are resorting to insults and sarcasm is just dropping your credibility bit by bit by bit.

Sorry Freke....don''t get offended by me saying that. I actually really like you. I''m thinking I should probably stay out of this section though! Too tough of a crowd for me.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:47:27 AM
Author: miraclesrule
::::Begin Drug Company Rant::::::::::

The drug companies don''t care as much about the people as they do a profit. They invest less money in research and development for an antibiotic for a ''superbug'' than they do in a drug for chronic illnesses such as diabetes, obesity, hypertension, hormone therapy, etc... Why? Because if you take a few pills for a few weeks that will cure you, they don''t make as much $$$ as they do if you need to take their pills for a lifetime.

A human is billed, and is required to pay, over 3 times more for the same medication that the same human has to purchase for their pet...FOR THE SAME MEDICATION!!

They also don''t test equally on men and women. They also don''t care about the long term side effects, so they let generic drugs imitate them after 10 years...in order to share the burden of any legal consequences of the negative side effects of their intial patent.

Dont'' get me started.

::::::::end rant:::::::::::::

I''ve heard that more than once. Terrifying, isn''t it? And extremely sad. I HATE our healthcare system! Drug companies, insurance companies, shady malpractice lawyers that ruin things for the rest of us...everything!

I wonder if it''s worse here or in Canada. I''m telling you...it''s tempting to get out of dodge sometimes!

 

[miraclesrule]

No luckystar, don''t you even THINK about leaving.

I want to tell a story that provides a glimpse of the problems with our healthcare crisis and I want you to hear it....but I won''t bother spending the time typing if nobody really cares to listen.

 

[luckystar112]

I''ll stay and read! I''m fascinated by this stuff.

As long as Freke doesn''t give me a beat down.

 

[miraclesrule]

Yayayaya, okay, because this was a really great story. I even used it in one of my Toastmaster''s speeches and there was a doctor in the audience who approached me and wanted me to tell him more of my stories. You are all helping me to recall the best of the best and I am going to dictate them on my new dictation device (because my staff thinks I should write a book too). Freke rocks. She still hasn''t found the shoes I need, but I still love her....okay next post will take me a bit, but I am trying to figure out how to summarize this story so I don''t get carpal tunnel syndrome.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:48:02 AM
Author: luckystar112

style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 86px">Date: 6/6/2008 12:34:59 AM
Author: FrekeChild

He's unaware of more than that unfortunately.

I don't understand why you have to be so rude.

Perhaps that's why republicans, myself included, aren't participating in the McCain thread.

I know you haven't said anything to me personally, but I'm getting a strong 'know it all' vibe from you, and the way you (and others) are resorting to insults and sarcasm is just dropping your credibility bit by bit by bit.

Sorry Freke....don't get offended by me saying that. I actually really like you. I'm thinking I should probably stay out of this section though! Too tough of a crowd for me.

LS112
YAY!!! first republican on PS.

don't let these Dems scare you. give them a piece of your mind

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/6/2008 12:48:02 AM
Author: luckystar112

style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 86px">Date: 6/6/2008 12:34:59 AM
Author: FrekeChild
He's unaware of more than that unfortunately.

I don't understand why you have to be so rude.

Perhaps that's why republicans, myself included, aren't participating in the McCain thread.

I know you haven't said anything to me personally, but I'm getting a strong 'know it all' vibe from you, and the way you (and others) are resorting to insults and sarcasm is just dropping your credibility bit by bit by bit.

Sorry Freke....don't get offended by me saying that. I actually really like you. I'm thinking I should probably stay out of this section though! Too tough of a crowd for me.

Luckystar, I don't mean to be rude and that certainly wasn't meant to be an insult-only the truth. I actually debated throwing that comment in there for a while, but unfortunately it's true. He's said himself that he knows nothing about Obama-and he asked us to educate him. Patronizingly. He's refused to google or even look at barackobama.com. I mean, it's not that hard, but it's so frustrating to try to educate someone who rebuts things with something about "selling his tv to pay for his daughter's food because all of his money went to taxes that Obama made him pay". His rudeness fueled my rudeness. And I've never been one to sugarcoat anything. Which people on here would appreciate more if they knew me in person. Besides, I don't think he takes offense or cares one way or another because he's not a hotheaded crazy young person.

I will be the first person to say I don't know everything. I'm sorry that I came off in the opposite manner. The difference is that I'm willing to learn. I want to know why you guys like McCain. I want to know if you think he is a good candidate, or if you're voting for him just because he's a Republican. I'm trying to contribute to the thread, and hoping that someone will give me some information on why. When I was being taught Statistics, baking cr#p, freaking english-I would ask why do we do it this way? Or why do we do it at all. So now I'm asking you, why do you like John McCain? Heck, do you even like John McCain? I've met a lot of Repulicans who don't.

And I think what Musey said on the first page also applies to me-except it's not my dad that he's reminding me of, more my uncle.

ETA This wasn't meant as a beat down either! I genuinely want to engage in discussion about these topics!!

ETAA: Still wanting gold strappies Miracles?? And I'll be back to read later. BF is wanting me to play video games.

ETAAA: I meant to say that 90% if they didn't know the answer to the "why" question in my schooling, I think it sort of made THEM think about why-and why they had never thought about it, or why they did it in general. In baking I got lots of good reasons. In stats and English-not so much. It was very much, because I said so. Or, because it's always been done this way. With baking it was, because it makes it fluffier and in this case that's a good thing. BTW, BF has started without me.