Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what to do

[drruby]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

I've heard dealers over and over say that the public now is just buying PAPER (gia certs) they can't even look at a stone anymore.

Luckily I prefer rubies so we still look at stones.

GIA actually served a vital need, setting the bar as to a grade standard, which still doesn't exist in the CG market, so now a dealer can't hype his idea of color or clarity.

The history of gems is filled with crooked scales and tons of enhancements as well as just plain fakes.

GIA at least in carbon says real to the best of our equipment today and as far as we know no known treatments and using our grading system, this is what the stone is IN OUR OPINION.

I only recently started looking at common carbon again after almost 30 years of zero interest in carbon.

I have maintained a strong interest in CG but now that I've been looking at carbon lately, I have a couple of questions you may be able to explain.

Thanks

We're on the same page, real eyes and real light is what you need on any gems.

 

[WinkHPD]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

Ah, I love this discussion. It's like the old PS days, back when I joined.

Cinnamom, Todd Gray has the NiceIce.com website and he used to sell diamonds on PS. Have you read 5 minutes to success? He gives a range of parameters that he used to quickly decide which diamonds were likely to be great performers. He gives a few pointers that may help you. Good Old Gold has an article on minor faceting that you might read, as well.
http://niceice.com/diamond-buying-secrets/5-minutes-diamond-buying-success/

Wink and others mentioned the 76% vs. 80% lgf. I found that I'm in the camp that prefers the small table / steeper crown / fatter arrows / nice contrast / lots of dispersion. Sometimes you just have to shell out more money than you planned on or drop to lower clarity to get what you wanted. There are some of us on here who have gotten over the need for 100% eyeclean. Honestly, that is the thing that I care about the least. When a diamond is brand new, I tend to stare at it and study it intently for a while. But then that wears off and I'm looking at it less often and mostly not up close. And I decided that cut, color, and size were the important things, and discretely not 100% eyeclean was completely acceptable. I'll only obsess over the details while picking a stone or working on a project or trying to get the most bang for my buck. But once it's purchased or built, it's time to just enjoy.

Wink has for years told stories of how he'd set a Crafted by Infinity next to some other diamond, and ask the buyer to choose. And the buyer chose the CBI, because of its cut. That H diamond just didn't have it. So you know you can't compromise on cut. If the H was white enough, I'd also say don't go below H. You current diamond is an I, but larger stones concentrate tint due to their greater mass, and you've already indicated that you have some color sensitivity. I have an I color diamond, and it has strong blue fluor that makes it face up white but I can clearly see the creamy I color from the side. I think the vendor is right to try to steer you to H or whiter.

Thank you AdaBeta. This is the reason I get so worked up over cut. IT MATTERS. Differences in color and clarity are rarely even visible for several steps, especially clarity. Color, clarity and carat weight are rarity issues and it is beyond the ability of man to change the starting parameters of the rough crystal in its size, color and clarity. It is what man DOES with that starting crystal that determines whether that crystal is allowed to reach its maximum beauty. To me, cutting is the sole quality issue. Personally, I think cut is the most important issue of all, as a D-IF poorly cut is basically a lifeless lump of crystallized carbon.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the 6 ct N-VVS2 was one of the most extraordinary diamonds I have ever seen. Its rich warm buttery color served as an astonishing backdrop to a light show of phenomenal beauty because of its flawless three dimensional precision cutting. It was sold primarily BECAUSE of the beauty of that color to the buyer.

Our OP has seen that for herself, and because of that will eventually end up with a diamond that fulfills the desires of her heart and more importantly, HER eyes. No longer will she be bamboozled by paper mongers. I have no doubt that eventually she will find her dream diamond, and for that this forum has served her exceptionally well.

Wink

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

I've heard dealers over and over say that the public now is just buying PAPER (gia certs) they can't even look at a stone anymore.

Luckily I prefer rubies so we still look at stones.

GIA actually served a vital need, setting the bar as to a grade standard, which still doesn't exist in the CG market, so now a dealer can't hype his idea of color or clarity.

The history of gems is filled with crooked scales and tons of enhancements as well as just plain fakes.

GIA at least in carbon says real to the best of our equipment today and as far as we know no known treatments and using our grading system, this is what the stone is IN OUR OPINION.

I only recently started looking at common carbon again after almost 30 years of zero interest in carbon.

I have maintained a strong interest in CG but now that I've been looking at carbon lately, I have a couple of questions you may be able to explain.

Thanks

We're on the same page, real eyes and real light is what you need on any gems.

DrRuby,
I came from the colored stone world myself so I understand your perspective. Carbon is different, but I am here to tell you that carbon rocks!

Enjoy your foray into diamonds. There is a lot to be learned right here in this community. I can attest to that as well!

 

[yssie]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

DrRuby,
I came from the colored stone world myself so I understand your perspective. Carbon is different, but I am here to tell you that carbon rocks!

Enjoy your foray into diamonds. There is a lot to be learned right here in this community. I can attest to that as well!

You, Wink - did any of you diamond folk actually start in diamonds?

 

[drruby]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

My experience with Carbon was in later 70's and early 80's it all revolved around E rings and 1 CT and 2 CT pieces.

You sold black carbon inclusions to people with no money

You sold eye clean goods to people with a little cash

You sold the cleanest stuff and least color to professionals

Now it's all about the GIA cert, GIA says this or that.

Late 80's I did have dough in IF carats, but I put that all into GOLD around 1990.

The only thing I can't figure out about Carbon today is what exactly is the GIA threshold for eye clean lower goods, SI level stones with hard to find inclusions without a loupe that turn filthy dirty with a loupe, is it SI2 or I1 or even I2.

This weekend a buddy of mine was given a 1.00 carat in exchange for some money a dealer owed him.

Dealer says K I2, I look yep K or dark J and for minutes I'm looking at stone NOTHING, I'm like WTF I2, am I going blind. It has to be SI no eye issues.

So dealer laughs LOUPE it, I do, filthy dirty off table stuff. So I say SI3.

Dealer says GIA doesn't have SI3, I'm amazed he was right. He says that's old school 47th lingo.

So dealer says it will sell in the exchange 1200 range.

I ask my pal how much does he owe you, 1500 and this is partial payment so he says it's 1200 and if he can get 1K for it, he'll consider it 1200 since the dealer is taking forever to cover a memo he owes my buddy.

So I say to my buddy well this site says K I2 is 700 to carbon buyers so I don't think it's 700 unless other dealers consider this I2. I think the other dealers will consider it soft SI or I1 at worse case scenario.

So we walk the stone, one guy says J and SI2, another says L and I3, you know the whole spectrum of honest versus thief opinions.

Finally the only guy really BUYING diamonds looks and says 1000, so a little haggling and bang 1100.

Which means that jeweler thought K and SI1 or SI2 probably.

So now I'm scratching my head wondering what GIA really considers I2 since the original dealer had a 30 year old GIA diploma on his wall. They that came up with 1100 had a newer GIA diploma on his wall.

My buddy usually tries to cert clean J level stuff in SI1 range since the 105 buck cert makes it worth something instantly and he didn't want to keep the stone to cert since he thought even though eye clean it's not SI range and now I'm asking in another thread how do you draw the line on SI versus I as to what GIA really thinks.

 

[Karl_K]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

DrRuby,
I came from the colored stone world myself so I understand your perspective. Carbon is different, but I am here to tell you that carbon rocks!

Enjoy your foray into diamonds. There is a lot to be learned right here in this community. I can attest to that as well!

You, Wink - did any of you diamond folk actually start in diamonds?

Looking for rubies is how I started. sooo not I LOL

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

DrRuby,
I came from the colored stone world myself so I understand your perspective. Carbon is different, but I am here to tell you that carbon rocks!

Enjoy your foray into diamonds. There is a lot to be learned right here in this community. I can attest to that as well!

You, Wink - did any of you diamond folk actually start in diamonds?

At the risk of hijacking the thread, it is oh so true that in the colored stone world there is no substitute for looking at the stone. And there is no substitute for experience when looking at the stone. The lab report basically confirms the natural origin and any treatments, the rest is pretty much up to you to determine.

What was intriguing to me as a young gemologist was the incredible variety of materials in the market. Diamond seemed at the time boring (can't believe I just said that out loud) by comparison. AND it was possible to travel to exotic locations around the world and buy the material from the actual people who were digging it. Heck, friends of mine were actually digging it themselves!

But as sexy as being an international gem trader may sound, it was hard and dangerous work. And it was almost impossible to "re-order" anything. You had to go there and look at each stone, and negotiate each one! Which leads back to DrRuby's perspective, which I can totally relate to.

Fortunately, to a much greater extent diamond is amenable to objective analysis. But as has been mentioned multiple times in this thread, small differences in diamond characteristics give rise to different personalities. So even with diamond, you have to look at the stone, really even live with the stone for a period of time, before you know if it rocks your socks off.

 

[Karl_K]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

My buddy usually tries to cert clean J level stuff in SI1 range since the 105 buck cert makes it worth something instantly and he didn't want to keep the stone to cert since he thought even though eye clean it's not SI range and now I'm asking in another thread how do you draw the line on SI versus I as to what GIA really thinks.

The problem is if the cert plot does not show any inclusions and the SI grade is based on clouds or wisps it can be an indication of issues with the inclusions interfering with the light return.
On of or most respected PS trade advisers and one of my mentors, Garry H. reported he has seen issues lately even up in the vs range with such diamonds.
It is a diamond by diamond issue some are fine even even at si2 some are not.

 

[iLander]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

My experience with Carbon was in later 70's and early 80's it all revolved around E rings and 1 CT and 2 CT pieces.

You sold black carbon inclusions to people with no money

You sold eye clean goods to people with a little cash

You sold the cleanest stuff and least color to professionals

Now it's all about the GIA cert, GIA says this or that.

Late 80's I did have dough in IF carats, but I put that all into GOLD around 1990.

The only thing I can't figure out about Carbon today is what exactly is the GIA threshold for eye clean lower goods, SI level stones with hard to find inclusions without a loupe that turn filthy dirty with a loupe, is it SI2 or I1 or even I2.

This weekend a buddy of mine was given a 1.00 carat in exchange for some money a dealer owed him.

Dealer says K I2, I look yep K or dark J and for minutes I'm looking at stone NOTHING, I'm like WTF I2, am I going blind. It has to be SI no eye issues.

So dealer laughs LOUPE it, I do, filthy dirty off table stuff. So I say SI3.

Dealer says GIA doesn't have SI3, I'm amazed he was right. He says that's old school 47th lingo.

So dealer says it will sell in the exchange 1200 range.

I ask my pal how much does he owe you, 1500 and this is partial payment so he says it's 1200 and if he can get 1K for it, he'll consider it 1200 since the dealer is taking forever to cover a memo he owes my buddy.

So I say to my buddy well this site says K I2 is 700 to carbon buyers so I don't think it's 700 unless other dealers consider this I2. I think the other dealers will consider it soft SI or I1 at worse case scenario.

So we walk the stone, one guy says J and SI2, another says L and I3, you know the whole spectrum of honest versus thief opinions.

Finally the only guy really BUYING diamonds looks and says 1000, so a little haggling and bang 1100.

Which means that jeweler thought K and SI1 or SI2 probably.

So now I'm scratching my head wondering what GIA really considers I2 since the original dealer had a 30 year old GIA diploma on his wall. They that came up with 1100 had a newer GIA diploma on his wall.

My buddy usually tries to cert clean J level stuff in SI1 range since the 105 buck cert makes it worth something instantly and he didn't want to keep the stone to cert since he thought even though eye clean it's not SI range and now I'm asking in another thread how do you draw the line on SI versus I as to what GIA really thinks.

Take all advice from drruby with a grain of salt, this is a quote from drruby,

I met an alien once he said he used huge synthetic gemstones to stabilize his FTL drive, it seems aliens prize 5 foot wide synthetic gems for their technology, since the natural inclusions in gems usually mean a WARP drive goes crazy.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/geographic-origin-of-rubies.215817/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/geographic-origin-of-rubies.215817/[/URL]

Thought you’d like to consider ALL the facts before taking his advice.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

My experience with Carbon was in later 70's and early 80's it all revolved around E rings and 1 CT and 2 CT pieces.

You sold black carbon inclusions to people with no money

You sold eye clean goods to people with a little cash

You sold the cleanest stuff and least color to professionals

Now it's all about the GIA cert, GIA says this or that.

Late 80's I did have dough in IF carats, but I put that all into GOLD around 1990.

The only thing I can't figure out about Carbon today is what exactly is the GIA threshold for eye clean lower goods, SI level stones with hard to find inclusions without a loupe that turn filthy dirty with a loupe, is it SI2 or I1 or even I2.

This weekend a buddy of mine was given a 1.00 carat in exchange for some money a dealer owed him.

Dealer says K I2, I look yep K or dark J and for minutes I'm looking at stone NOTHING, I'm like WTF I2, am I going blind. It has to be SI no eye issues.

So dealer laughs LOUPE it, I do, filthy dirty off table stuff. So I say SI3.

Dealer says GIA doesn't have SI3, I'm amazed he was right. He says that's old school 47th lingo.

So dealer says it will sell in the exchange 1200 range.

I ask my pal how much does he owe you, 1500 and this is partial payment so he says it's 1200 and if he can get 1K for it, he'll consider it 1200 since the dealer is taking forever to cover a memo he owes my buddy.

So I say to my buddy well this site says K I2 is 700 to carbon buyers so I don't think it's 700 unless other dealers consider this I2. I think the other dealers will consider it soft SI or I1 at worse case scenario.

So we walk the stone, one guy says J and SI2, another says L and I3, you know the whole spectrum of honest versus thief opinions.

Finally the only guy really BUYING diamonds looks and says 1000, so a little haggling and bang 1100.

Which means that jeweler thought K and SI1 or SI2 probably.

So now I'm scratching my head wondering what GIA really considers I2 since the original dealer had a 30 year old GIA diploma on his wall. They that came up with 1100 had a newer GIA diploma on his wall.

My buddy usually tries to cert clean J level stuff in SI1 range since the 105 buck cert makes it worth something instantly and he didn't want to keep the stone to cert since he thought even though eye clean it's not SI range and now I'm asking in another thread how do you draw the line on SI versus I as to what GIA really thinks.

One thing you will find with diamonds and clarity grading is that the lower you go on the scale the wider and broader the categories become. And clarity grading depends on an evaluation of several individual factors including the number, kind and size of features. So as you drop from Si1 through I2 you get a a rapidly increasing matrix of potential factors. In a real sense it is much easier to tell the difference between an IF and a VVS1 than between an I1 and I2. And it matters a whole lot more too!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

Take all advice from drruby with a grain of salt, this is a quote from drruby,

I met an alien once he said he used huge synthetic gemstones to stabilize his FTL drive, it seems aliens prize 5 foot wide synthetic gems for their technology, since the natural inclusions in gems usually mean a WARP drive goes crazy.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/geographic-origin-of-rubies.215817/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/geographic-origin-of-rubies.215817/[/URL]

Thought you’d like to consider ALL the facts before taking his advice.

I understand diamonds are much better in warp drives. But for light speed and beyond, you need to stick with ideal cuts.

 

[WinkHPD]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

DrRuby,
I came from the colored stone world myself so I understand your perspective. Carbon is different, but I am here to tell you that carbon rocks!

Enjoy your foray into diamonds. There is a lot to be learned right here in this community. I can attest to that as well!

You, Wink - did any of you diamond folk actually start in diamonds?

Not me. I started buying and selling colored gems in Rio de Janeiro, Brasil in 1970. I was actually offered a 2 ct diamond back then for $700, but I could not conceive of anyone spending that much money for a gem. (As a Sgt in the USMC and a Marine Security Guard at the US Embassy in Rio, I made the princely sum of $350 per month and needed to supplement my income by selling gems and stealing candy from babies (playing poker with the other Marines) to make ends meet. I had heavy dating obligations to afford to go out for movies and drinks at least twice a week with my many various dates. I had the reputation of a butterfly boy until I met my wife, Resa, who was an American working at the embassy. I asked her out for a movie after breaking up with one of my Brasilian girlfriends, and two weeks later told her that we would treasure our life together. With that decision, made unilaterally at first, my dating expenses went up, as now dates included dinners. After only a couple of months she agreed to become my wife, yet even for our engagement ring, colored gems were the center stones. (Three princess cut rubies, with eight small diamonds as accent stones. I spent the exorbitant amount of $300 for that ring, which put a serious dent in our dating that month, that was actually a lot of money back then.)

Even when I opened my first store in 1979 I built it around color. After only a couple of months, I realized that this was NOT financially a good move and I started selling diamonds. Back then I had a hard time finding well cut diamonds, and trust me, what we did not know about cutting would fill MANY books today.

So, at first I was forced into diamonds, but as I learned more and more about cutting, I became more enamored with the minutia and the incredible differences that they made in the appearance of the diamonds. I quickly adopted the Hearts and Arrows cut diamonds and bought many diamonds from Alpha Diamonds in the early days of H&A. They became WhiteFlash and began dealing only with the public through their website if my memory is not tricking me again.

I became an EightStar dealer and loved them, but not the pricing, not quite as much as Hearts on Fire, but still more than I wanted to spend. A couple of years later, I met Paul Slegers and was his first real account here in the States when he started his business. Under his tutelage I have learned ten times what I knew before and am now completely in the thrall of diamonds. I still love color, but my passion is now, and has been for nearly twenty years, DIAMONDS.

Throughout my career I have continued to study and take continuing education courses, but by far the most I have learned has been working with Paul, and later with John Pollard when he joined the Crafted by Infinity team. It was Pricescope that brought John and I together as friends, while he was working with WhiteFlash. It is one of the many things that I thank Pricescope for. The mental stimulation and exciting dialogues here are priceless.

So, thank you for asking, Yssie. I hope this response does not fall into the, "Be careful what you ask for," category, as it sure brought up some wonderful memories for me.

Wink

P.S. Resa and I are still happily married and had our fifth grandchild late last night after more than twenty hours of labor by my dear sweet daughter. We were both exhausted from the tension of waiting so long for the baby to be born. 9 lbs 6 ounces of reluctant to emerge baby girl named Kira. Daughter and her husband are both doing well.

P.P.S. Pretty sure John Pollard did. Better get him in here to tell his story.

 

[drruby]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

At the risk of hijacking the thread, it is oh so true that in the colored stone world there is no substitute for looking at the stone. And there is no substitute for experience when looking at the stone. The lab report basically confirms the natural origin and any treatments, the rest is pretty much up to you to determine.

What was intriguing to me as a young gemologist was the incredible variety of materials in the market. Diamond seemed at the time boring (can't believe I just said that out loud) by comparison. AND it was possible to travel to exotic locations around the world and buy the material from the actual people who were digging it. Heck, friends of mine were actually digging it themselves!

But as sexy as being an international gem trader may sound, it was hard and dangerous work. And it was almost impossible to "re-order" anything. You had to go there and look at each stone, and negotiate each one! Which leads back to DrRuby's perspective, which I can totally relate to.

Fortunately, to a much greater extent diamond is amenable to objective analysis. But as has been mentioned multiple times in this thread, small differences in diamond characteristics give rise to different personalities. So even with diamond, you have to look at the stone, really even live with the stone for a period of time, before you know if it rocks your socks off.

You need to write about your forays into pits around the world, title it

ROMANCING THE STONE

LOL

Luckily no labs have yet to declare this is the holy grail on how you GRADE CG yet.

Well correct that, an expensive report by AGL has their own type of a grade.

As you know certs aren't as big in CG ad some now do certs since the dealers can't look at silk and tell if it's been vaporized by HH or if it has bubbles for LGFF, etc.

So when I heard AGL had a high end grading report for rubies with clarity grades, I checked into AGL and as soon as I saw CU Collectors Universe recently owned them, that crosses them off my list of respectable labs.

They have been known to put authentic on obviously FAKE ANCIENT COINS in one of their companies and they have put AUTHENTIC as well on older sports cards proven to be FAKES.

So a company grading fake coins and sports cards as real all of a sudden saying here is how you grade rubies, well it's almost so funny I still laugh when I say AGL grades and rubies in the same sentence.

 

[drruby]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

Take all advice from drruby with a grain of salt, this is a quote from drruby,

I met an alien once he said he used huge synthetic gemstones to stabilize his FTL drive, it seems aliens prize 5 foot wide synthetic gems for their technology, since the natural inclusions in gems usually mean a WARP drive goes crazy.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/geographic-origin-of-rubies.215817/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/geographic-origin-of-rubies.215817/[/URL]

Thought you’d like to consider ALL the facts before taking his advice.

yes PLEASE read that thread some 'expert' was saying how sunlight is not the same around the world, so I gave a comical rebuttal to his comical claims that sunlight is not sunlight.

Now I guess you can't tell when someone is laughing at someone and posting a comical reply to show how comical that persons statements were.

To paraphrase, he said something to the effect that sunlight is not sunlight and no one but him knows that.

haha

TOO FUNNY you took that alien remark seriously, but if they existed they would fuel their tech with synthetic gems since they are better for technology.

 

[drruby]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

I understand diamonds are much better in warp drives. But for light speed and beyond, you need to stick with ideal cuts.

The reptilians use Alexandrite to change colors, isn't that common knowledge?

haha

 

[lovedogs]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

Not me. I started buying and selling colored gems in Rio de Janeiro, Brasil in 1970. I was actually offered a 2 ct diamond back then for $700, but I could not conceive of anyone spending that much money for a gem. (As a Sgt in the USMC and a Marine Security Guard at the US Embassy in Rio, I made the princely sum of $350 per month and needed to supplement my income by selling gems and stealing candy from babies (playing poker with the other Marines) to make ends meet. I had heavy dating obligations to afford to go out for movies and drinks at least twice a week with my many various dates. I had the reputation of a butterfly boy until I met my wife, Resa, who was an American working at the embassy. I asked her out for a movie after breaking up with one of my Brasilian girlfriends, and two weeks later told her that we would treasure our life together. With that decision, made unilaterally at first, my dating expenses went up, as now dates included dinners. After only a couple of months she agreed to become my wife, yet even for our engagement ring, colored gems were the center stones. (Three princess cut rubies, with eight small diamonds as accent stones. I spent the exorbitant amount of $300 for that ring, which put a serious dent in our dating that month, that was actually a lot of money back then.)

Even when I opened my first store in 1979 I built it around color. After only a couple of months, I realized that this was NOT financially a good move and I started selling diamonds. Back then I had a hard time finding well cut diamonds, and trust me, what we did not know about cutting would fill MANY books today.

So, at first I was forced into diamonds, but as I learned more and more about cutting, I became more enamored with the minutia and the incredible differences that they made in the appearance of the diamonds. I quickly adopted the Hearts and Arrows cut diamonds and bought many diamonds from Alpha Diamonds in the early days of H&A. They became WhiteFlash and began dealing only with the public through their website if my memory is not tricking me again.

I became an EightStar dealer and loved them, but not the pricing, not quite as much as Hearts on Fire, but still more than I wanted to spend. A couple of years later, I met Paul Slegers and was his first real account here in the States when he started his business. Under his tutelage I have learned ten times what I knew before and am now completely in the thrall of diamonds. I still love color, but my passion is now, and has been for nearly twenty years, DIAMONDS.

Throughout my career I have continued to study and take continuing education courses, but by far the most I have learned has been working with Paul, and later with John Pollard when he joined the Crafted by Infinity team. It was Pricescope that brought John and I together as friends, while he was working with WhiteFlash. It is one of the many things that I thank Pricescope for. The mental stimulation and exciting dialogues here are priceless.

So, thank you for asking, Yssie. I hope this response does not fall into the, "Be careful what you ask for," category, as it sure brought up some wonderful memories for me.

Wink

P.S. Resa and I are still happily married and had our fifth grandchild late last night after more than twenty hours of labor by my dear sweet daughter. We were both exhausted from the tension of waiting so long for the baby to be born. 9 lbs 6 ounces of reluctant to emerge baby girl named Kira. Daughter and her husband are both doing well.

This is a very sweet response I like that this made you reflect on happy memories, and I enjoy hearing about your journey into being a diamond expert

 

[cinnamonstick]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

Good morning! Wow lots to read?

PS has served me well and is guiding me as I hoped it would. I actually, would NEVER have shopped online if it was not for the support and guidance of vendors on PS. Thank you- saved me $4k right there

I lined up a visit to see some diamonds in person today with the "H". Just to see what is going on. Hour drive each way (maybe longer home with rush-hour), but I feel t is 100% my time. I did just this with the "J" before returning. BUT, ONLY to look at color comparisons, since the performance was not an issue. Not that there is a performance issue with the "H". Could just be "different", as I am learning. ALL of the diamonds I saw that day at the local store sparkled beside the "J" (all trip x). And all looked great, IMO. Size and color would have been the ONLY determining factors if I had to chose between the "J" and the other "J","H", "G"s I saw. Different concern, different eye. BUT they all did sparkle the "same". No significant difference with out focusing on performance.

Today, I will be looking at sparkle/contract pattern, etc. Maybe this "H" is going to be right there, and my memory is poor. I hope. I really do.

I am not wed to XXX GIA. Nor do I care what I see under a loupe. The SI1s and SI2s look s-c-a-r-y under 10x LOL! Doesn't matter as long as my naked eye doesn't see an inclusion that I cant "get over". I would drop to a GIA VG cut if I felt it would help. PS'ers think not. So does my vendor. I believe that is excellent advice!! I have tossed dropping to a VG polish or symmetry with the vendor. But again, he feels (as many PSers might)--keep XXX. I do trust his opinion (as well as all of yours which is why I am here!).

With that said, I do understand the concept that people are buying PAPER diamonds. In real life, I would love to line up 5 diamonds I can afford...and pick. Not knowing certs etc. BUT, with out a trip to NY that is not possible at this time which is why I hope viewing some today will at least tell me if I need to start over or keep the "H".

 

[drruby]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

One thing you will find with diamonds and clarity grading is that the lower you go on the scale the wider and broader the categories become. And clarity grading depends on an evaluation of several individual factors including the number, kind and size of features. So as you drop from Si1 through I2 you get a a rapidly increasing matrix of potential factors. In a real sense it is much easier to tell the difference between an IF and a VVS1 than between an I1 and I2. And it matters a whole lot more too!

So do you know exactly the GIA mantra is for the dividing line in SI to I

I've seen SI that you can spot the flaws easily with your eyes, off table usually and not much else going on internally but a substantial eye visible spec near girdles usually, so SI is not always eye clean, it's usually not IMO.

But I should be easy to spot EYE ISSUES.

So if a stone is now showing obvious eye visible problems and yet it has very big loupe inclusions, what is the grade, IN YOUR OPINION?

I would love to see a GIA grader explain exactly what is SI and I1 or even I2 since most most I2 I've seen is horrible to the eye, yeah some is ok, but most is terrible.

Never really being concerned with low end goods, I was never one to look at low end graded stones much.

So if any GIA graders can explain exactly how much inclusions must be moved to I grades not matter if it's pretty much EYE CLEAN and usually an SI grade.

Oh, Inclusions do greatly effect sparkle so it's quasi related to thread, I'm sure the OP doesn't mind his thread being popular.

 

[drruby]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

Good morning! Wow lots to read?

PS has served me well and is guiding me as I hoped it would. I actually, would NEVER have shopped online if it was not for the support and guidance of vendors on PS. Thank you- saved me $4k right there

I lined up a visit to see some diamonds in person today with the "H". Just to see what is going on. Hour drive each way (maybe longer home with rush-hour), but I feel t is 100% my time. I did just this with the "J" before returning. BUT, ONLY to look at color comparisons, since the performance was not an issue. Not that there is a performance issue with the "H". Could just be "different", as I am learning. ALL of the diamonds I saw that day at the local store sparkled beside the "J" (all trip x). And all looked great, IMO. Size and color would have been the ONLY determining factors if I had to chose between the "J" and the other "J","H", "G"s I saw. Different concern, different eye. BUT they all did sparkle the "same". No significant difference with out focusing on performance.

Today, I will be looking at sparkle/contract pattern, etc. Maybe this "H" is going to be right there, and my memory is poor. I hope. I really do.

I am not wed to XXX GIA. Nor do I care what I see under a loupe. The SI1s and SI2s look s-c-a-r-y under 10x LOL! Doesn't matter as long as my naked eye doesn't see an inclusion that I cant "get over". I would drop to a GIA VG cut if I felt it would help. PS'ers think not. So does my vendor. I believe that is excellent advice!! I have tossed dropping to a VG polish or symmetry with the vendor. But again, he feels (as many PSers might)--keep XXX. I do trust his opinion (as well as all of yours which is why I am here!).

With that said, I do understand the concept that people are buying PAPER diamonds. In real life, I would love to line up 5 diamonds I can afford...and pick. Not knowing certs etc. BUT, with out a trip to NY that is not possible at this time which is why I hope viewing some today will at least tell me if I need to start over or keep the "H".

You might want to take a short trip to the closest 'exchange' near you.

Then you can see how common carbon is, it's a carbon planet every one and every living thing on this rock is carbon based, so yeah carbon is very common.

You don't need to hit 47th st to see how common GIA cert carbon is, every exchange is flooded with it.

Figure out exactly what your budget is and do like you said, line up a bunch of carbon with the same 4C certs.

Carat
Color
Clarity
Cut

In an exchange you can see lots of similar stones in most sizes and grades.

Then you pick that one that speaks to you.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

One thing you will find with diamonds and clarity grading is that the lower you go on the scale the wider and broader the categories become. And clarity grading depends on an evaluation of several individual factors including the number, kind and size of features. So as you drop from Si1 through I2 you get a a rapidly increasing matrix of potential factors. In a real sense it is much easier to tell the difference between an IF and a VVS1 than between an I1 and I2. And it matters a whole lot more too!

So do you know exactly the GIA mantra is for the dividing line in SI to I

I've seen SI that you can spot the flaws easily with your eyes, off table usually and not much else going on internally but a substantial eye visible spec near girdles usually, so SI is not always eye clean, it's usually not IMO.

But I should be easy to spot EYE ISSUES.

So if a stone is now showing obvious eye visible problems and yet it has very big loupe inclusions, what is the grade, IN YOUR OPINION?

I would love to see a GIA grader explain exactly what is SI and I1 or even I2 since most most I2 I've seen is horrible to the eye, yeah some is ok, but most is terrible.

Never really being concerned with low end goods, I was never one to look at low end graded stones much.

So if any GIA graders can explain exactly how much inclusions must be moved to I grades not matter if it's pretty much EYE CLEAN and usually an SI grade.

Oh, Inclusions do greatly effect sparkle so it's quasi related to thread, I'm sure the OP doesn't mind his thread being popular.

You may want to refer to the article at the link below. It will answer many of your questions, and it will help inform you about AGSL ,which according to some comments you are making in another thread, you are not very familiar with.

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/ags-laboratories-clarity-grading-diamonds

 

[cinnamonstick]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

So even with diamond, you have to look at the stone, really even live with the stone for a period of time, before you know if it rocks your socks off.

LOVE reading all of these comments!! On topic or off SUPER interesting!

YES, and yes! I agree! I had to "live with the "J" a bit" to know w out a doubt. Color was a deal breaker. . My gut said it on day one. I gave her a chance. She was pretty

The "H" is stunning in very bright lighting (direct sunlight, defused bright sun through leaves, a flashlight, my family room lighting which are spot lights that shine indirectly down to light the room). In other lighting situations, if noted there is not a lot going on with sparkle at all....BUT it does remain very white looking . IE: not so exciting in few rooms in my house where the lighting is not the best and today I noted at work under the classroom lights (older building). Pretty much zero sparkle. This seems normal from what I read--that a diamond may not always look its best, in all lighting. Actually, this diamond looks its VERY BEST in direct, strong sunlight (and I read that is often is where a diamond usually looks "its worst" here on PS on several threads???
*Is that weird?

To the best of my recall, the "J" sparkled in all lighting situations I put it in, some more than others, but it was not bland anywhere.

I just want to be 100% sure the wisps, being an SI2 /first noted inclusion, are not interfering with ANY of the brilliance that should be there. Simply could be a "personality" difference.

 

[drruby]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

One thing you will find with diamonds and clarity grading is that the lower you go on the scale the wider and broader the categories become. And clarity grading depends on an evaluation of several individual factors including the number, kind and size of features. So as you drop from Si1 through I2 you get a a rapidly increasing matrix of potential factors. In a real sense it is much easier to tell the difference between an IF and a VVS1 than between an I1 and I2. And it matters a whole lot more too!

So do you know exactly the GIA mantra is for the dividing line in SI to I

I've seen SI that you can spot the flaws easily with your eyes, off table usually and not much else going on internally but a substantial eye visible spec near girdles usually, so SI is not always eye clean, it's usually not IMO.

But I should be easy to spot EYE ISSUES.

So if a stone is now showing obvious eye visible problems and yet it has very big loupe inclusions, what is the grade, IN YOUR OPINION?

I would love to see a GIA grader explain exactly what is SI and I1 or even I2 since most most I2 I've seen is horrible to the eye, yeah some is ok, but most is terrible.

Never really being concerned with low end goods, I was never one to look at low end graded stones much.

So if any GIA graders can explain exactly how much inclusions must be moved to I grades not matter if it's pretty much EYE CLEAN and usually an SI grade.

Oh, Inclusions do greatly effect sparkle so it's quasi related to thread, I'm sure the OP doesn't mind his thread being popular.

You may want to refer to the article at the link below. It will answer many of your questions, and it will help inform you about AGSL ,which according to some comments you are making in another thread, you are not very familiar with.

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/ags-laboratories-clarity-grading-diamonds

This is the issue, AGSL has a 7 grade or what the trade used to refer to SI3

I spent a lot of time recently in the top exchanges and high end jewelers in SFL and all I see is GIA all over the place, not one dealer is pushing AGSL certs, but every one of them is pushing GIA certs.

I'm not a fan of Matlins, she is flat out lying about stuff when she is on TV now, that is my opinion and some top guys in GIA are now LYING as well as it relates to a niche of CG that I am very, very knowledgeable about.

So without details, if Matlins is AGS which I think she is, the stuff she is saying today about some areas of CG is just FICTION and the GIA is saying the same lies.

As to carbon, well I'm not a big fan of carbon for now over 30 years and yet I may be putting a nice sum into major carbon buys soon.

So that's why I'm interested in what GIA has to say about exactly where the dividing line is in SI or I and AGSL has the 7 or what the trade used to call SI3 which is not a legit GIA grade.

Anyone know what 'book' the GIA has produced to train their graders with a clear defining of lower grades in it?

I'd love to read it.

Thanks

PS

Just did a quick search on a market for Diamond round GIA then AGS

GIA had over 300 hits and AGS had around 50

So 6 to 1 is the ratio on that market

In live exchanges in SFL I didn't see one dealer pushing they had AGS certs

Every dealer had signs GIA certificate diamonds

 

[WinkHPD]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

One thing you will find with diamonds and clarity grading is that the lower you go on the scale the wider and broader the categories become. And clarity grading depends on an evaluation of several individual factors including the number, kind and size of features. So as you drop from Si1 through I2 you get a a rapidly increasing matrix of potential factors. In a real sense it is much easier to tell the difference between an IF and a VVS1 than between an I1 and I2. And it matters a whole lot more too!

So do you know exactly the GIA mantra is for the dividing line in SI to I

I've seen SI that you can spot the flaws easily with your eyes, off table usually and not much else going on internally but a substantial eye visible spec near girdles usually, so SI is not always eye clean, it's usually not IMO.

But I should be easy to spot EYE ISSUES.

So if a stone is now showing obvious eye visible problems and yet it has very big loupe inclusions, what is the grade, IN YOUR OPINION?

I would love to see a GIA grader explain exactly what is SI and I1 or even I2 since most most I2 I've seen is horrible to the eye, yeah some is ok, but most is terrible.

Never really being concerned with low end goods, I was never one to look at low end graded stones much.

So if any GIA graders can explain exactly how much inclusions must be moved to I grades not matter if it's pretty much EYE CLEAN and usually an SI grade.

Oh, Inclusions do greatly effect sparkle so it's quasi related to thread, I'm sure the OP doesn't mind his thread being popular.

You may want to refer to the article at the link below. It will answer many of your questions, and it will help inform you about AGSL ,which according to some comments you are making in another thread, you are not very familiar with.

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/ags-laboratories-clarity-grading-diamonds

This is the issue, AGSL has a 7 grade or what the trade used to refer to SI3

I spent a lot of time recently in the top exchanges and high end jewelers in SFL and all I see is GIA all over the place, not one dealer is pushing AGSL certs, but every one of them is pushing GIA certs.

I'm not a fan of Matlins, she is flat out lying about stuff when she is on TV now, that is my opinion and some top guys in GIA are now LYING as well as it relates to a niche of CG that I am very, very knowledgeable about.

So without details, if Matlins is AGS which I think she is, the stuff she is saying today about some areas of CG is just FICTION and the GIA is saying the same lies.

As to carbon, well I'm not a big fan of carbon for now over 30 years and yet I may be putting a nice sum into major carbon buys soon.

So that's why I'm interested in what GIA has to say about exactly where the dividing line is in SI or I and AGSL has the 7 or what the trade used to call SI3 which is not a legit GIA grade.

Anyone know what 'book' the GIA has produced to train their graders with a clear defining of lower grades in it?

I'd love to read it.

Thanks

Actually, Sir, the AGS 7 grade is synonymous with the GIA I1 grade, not the so called SI3 grade which neither lab recognizes. The reason that you see almost always GIA in the large exchanges is that the dealers are almost always wanting to take advantage of the Steep Deep GIA XXX graded diamonds as both they and the cutters make more money selling a Steep Deep 1 ct than a 0.95 ct that is cut properly and thus costs more per carat and seems more expensive, even though it is a better value.

If you wish to disparage a gem lab, you should perhaps know more about it than you do when you erroneously state as fact the fiction that the AGS 7 clarity grade is an SI3. Sorry, but you are quickly losing your credibility here with those of us who actually do know and respect the integrity of the AGS cut grading system, which is far better than the GIA system.

Welcome to Pricescope by the way. It is always good to see new people join our ranks.

Wink

 

[drruby]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

I looked at their charts they have a clear division

SI1/2 is 5/6

I1 is 8

So I suggest you read the info and then explain if SI2 is 6 and I1 is 8 then the hybrid 7 is exactly what AGS disclosed it to be

SI2/I1

or SI3 as the 'trade' called it for YEARS

Just look at the AGS chart explaining what their numbers are

7 is SI2/I1

That is SI3 in the 'trade'

https://www.pricescope.com/files/articles/ags-gia-clarity-grading-scales-wf-article-part-4.jpg

So AGS defines 7 as SI2/I1 or SI3

LOL

 

[drruby]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

Okay researched some more now I can make an 'educated' opinion on AGS and AGSL

First GIA and AGS was formed by the SAME PERSON Shipley

Way back in the 1930's

GIA was the LAB and AGS was for the salesmen to promote what the lab GIA was doing, creating the so-called 4C's of the 'trade'.

Now not even 20 years ago AGSL was formed long after Shipley left this planet and now AGS is not just a 'trade org' it is a 'lab'.

AGSL certs have a minor market share in USA on diamond certs.

It's not that old and it's an offshoot of an 'association' setup by Shipley.

Not a LAB imo, it's a tool for some in the 'trade' to bump grades as others IN THE TRADE have so stated to me.

If you prefer AGSL certs, you are probably a dealer looking to bump grades IMO.

If you are a consumer do you want the 'lab' with the most market share of carbon certs by a mile or a 2nd stringer?

GIA is carbon certs IMO

But what do I know about carbon?

CG is my expertise but I'm trying to ask the right questions about carbon today.

Not to ruffle feathers but I do now how to read and comprehend what I read.

AGSL is new and it's an offshoot of a project created by the founder of the GIA LAB.

Enough said on AGSL

 

[baroque]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

This lovely thread and all the informative responses are an example of why I remain on PS even after my purchase.
My husband asks me often why I am still here, when my diamond buying is “over” (yeah right honey )

I do want to make a simple comment on “buying paper”.

Since we are taking advantage of the many reasons to buy a diamond online, I don’t see how we can NOT think about the paper, as the starting point. Videos and photos are nice, but as mentioned here, lighting conditions for those can be manipulated to enhance the presentation. Knowing what we would like to see on paper and the parameters that are ideal to you help to assure that we should give that stone a try.

To be sure, all of us would rather see all the options in person prior to making such an extravagant purchase, but unless you live near the places that have them, can get them, or have unlimited credit limits on your cards, this is not possible, so we have to start with the paper.

So then… when we receive the diamond, I agree it would be nice then to just toss the paperwork aside and see how it “feels” without question, and without having to analyze it once again. The analysis of the paperwork and the grading has already been done, so the visual in our own lighting conditions and daily wear should be all that matters at that point, and if you are seeing the stone as not as sparkly or not as lively as you were expecting, and going back to the paper and the certificate to see why and analyze the inclusions again, that tells me that it’s not performing as you had hoped and, for me, would eliminate it from my options.

 

[drruby]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

This lovely thread and all the informative responses are an example of why I remain on PS even after my purchase.
My husband asks me often why I am still here, when my diamond buying is “over” (yeah right honey )

I do want to make a simple comment on “buying paper”.

Since we are taking advantage of the many reasons to buy a diamond online, I don’t see how we can NOT think about the paper, as the starting point. Videos and photos are nice, but as mentioned here, lighting conditions for those can be manipulated to enhance the presentation. Knowing what we would like to see on paper and the parameters that are ideal to you help to assure that we should give that stone a try.

To be sure, all of us would rather see all the options in person prior to making such an extravagant purchase, but unless you live near the places that have them, can get them, or have unlimited credit limits on your cards, this is not possible, so we have to start with the paper.

So then… when we receive the diamond, I agree it would be nice then to just toss the paperwork aside and see how it “feels” without question, and without having to analyze it once again. The analysis of the paperwork and the grading has already been done, so the visual in our own lighting conditions and daily wear should be all that matters at that point, and if you are seeing the stone as not as sparkly or not as lively as you were expecting, and going back to the paper and the certificate to see why and analyze the inclusions again, that tells me that it’s not performing as you had hoped and, for me, would eliminate it from my options.

If you are like my wife, UPGRADES come.

She started with a nice 1 ct, then 2nd anni she upgraded to 2ct and the 5th she got a 5ct.

After that I said HONEY it is time to acquire CG pieces for your lovely fingers and neck and ears.

hehe

WE KNOW WHY YOU ARE STILL HERE

haha

 

[pyramid]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

DrRuby AGS certs are more expensive than GIA and they had a cut grade long before GIA.

 

[yssie]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

Would you please check your facts before bombarding us with them?

I looked at their charts they have a clear division

SI1/2 is 5/6

I1 is 8

So I suggest you read the info and then explain if SI2 is 6 and I1 is 8 then the hybrid 7 is exactly what AGS disclosed it to be

SI2/I1

or SI3 as the 'trade' called it for YEARS

Just look at the AGS chart explaining what their numbers are

7 is SI2/I1

That is SI3 in the 'trade'

https://www.pricescope.com/files/articles/ags-gia-clarity-grading-scales-wf-article-part-4.jpg

So AGS defines 7 as SI2/I1 or SI3

LOL

http://www.jckonline.com/article/289251-Why_We_Don_t_Need_SI3.php
Looks like SI3 only became trade nomenclature in 1992.
EGL, the only lab to actually use the term SI3 in publications, was banned from Rap earlier this year.


In direct response to your incorrect assertion, as Wink already indicated, AGSL does not consider SI3 a valid grade. AGSL will report a clarity grade of 7 as either SI2 or I1, never SI3.

AGSL DQD SI2 (6):
AGSL DQD SI2 (7):
AGSL DQD I1 (7):


...A little more learning (or, in your case, catching up on how the industry has changed since you were last active) and a little less antagonism, conspiracy-theorising, and self-aggrandisation would go a long way. Try it sometime.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Re: Why is this diamond not sparkling as much? Unsure what t

Would you please check your facts before bombarding us with them?

I looked at their charts they have a clear division

SI1/2 is 5/6

I1 is 8

So I suggest you read the info and then explain if SI2 is 6 and I1 is 8 then the hybrid 7 is exactly what AGS disclosed it to be

SI2/I1

or SI3 as the 'trade' called it for YEARS

Just look at the AGS chart explaining what their numbers are

7 is SI2/I1

That is SI3 in the 'trade'

https://www.pricescope.com/files/articles/ags-gia-clarity-grading-scales-wf-article-part-4.jpg

So AGS defines 7 as SI2/I1 or SI3

LOL

http://www.jckonline.com/article/289251-Why_We_Don_t_Need_SI3.php
Looks like SI3 only became trade nomenclature in 1992.
EGL, the only lab to actually use the term SI3 in publications, was banned from Rap earlier this year.


In direct response to your incorrect assertion, as Wink already indicated, AGSL does not consider SI3 a valid grade. AGSL will report a clarity grade of 7 as either SI2 or I1, never SI3.

AGSL DQD SI2 (6):
AGSL DQD SI2 (7):
AGSL DQD I1 (7):


...A little more learning (or, in your case, catching up on how the industry has changed since you were last active) and a little less antagonism, conspiracy-theorising, and self-aggrandisation would go a long way. Try it sometime.

Once again Yssie, you sum things up quite nicely.

If our instant expert had actually read the article on clarity grading at AGSL that I had linked, he could have avoided some embarrassment. As to where he might acquire information on humility and proper civil discourse, I don't have any specific recommendations, but I think it would be a very good idea.