Why do people say diamonds are not rarer than colored gemstones?

[arkieb1]

The prices would go up. Eventually you could force all the little guys out, and colored stones could be controlled by a few just like diamonds.

Yes exactly what I meant by a monopoly. Gemstones worth say $200 or less (or whatever amount) are not even worth the cost & trouble of getting certificates for let alone standardising.

I think @Garry H (Cut Nut) what you are proposing works for gemstones valued over a certain amount, but under a certain amount it isn't worth it from an economic POV to bother....

I have a difficult time getting gemstone dealers in other countries to send me accurate non enhanced photos let alone accurate gemstone descriptions, so if you can somehow get them to do what you are proposing I'll be the first one to take my hat off to you.

 

[deorwine]

This is mostly a thought exercise for me because like @voce and @arkieb1 I rather doubt you'd be able to get a good buy-in from the vendor side.

But let me be clear, even in my thought experiment I'm not at all suggesting that vendors do get certifications for all stones, especially cheap ones, which I agree would be madness. I'm more thinking of a more standardized system that's easy for a practiced vendor to implement and where certification (at the buyer's expense for cheap stones, natch) would merely be to back up the vendor's word, and for trusted vendors a cert for confirming color, etc. wouldn't be needed because we'd know to trust their eye.

Which is already what effectively happens to lesser or greater extents. Many trusted vendors I deal with (@PrecisionGem among them, since he's posted in this thread) often already do something like this where there is some sort of scale by which you can compare one gem to another at least within that vendor's wares, but where they have their own rank system. Jason Brim for instance already uses the GIA hue/saturation/tone scale in some of his cheap listings but I'm sure he hasn't got them certified.

(I can't speak for @Garry H (Cut Nut) of course, he may have different thoughts on what he wants to accomplish.)

Actually a bigger problem I see with this is color shift in different lighting which many colored gems are subject to. There would have to be agreement about exactly what kind of lighting we are talking about -- light from a particular kind of standardized bulb in a diffused environment? Have two color ratings for two different types of (standardized??) light? This is one thing you don't have to worry about as much with diamonds, lol!

@Garry H (Cut Nut) I'll make a poll, hopefully when I take my lunch break, because I'm interested to see the answers

 

[PrecisionGem]

Yes exactly what I meant by a monopoly. Gemstones worth say $200 or less (or whatever amount) are not even worth the cost & trouble of getting certificates for let alone standardising.

I think @Garry H (Cut Nut) what you are proposing works for gemstones valued over a certain amount, but under a certain amount it isn't worth it from an economic POV to bother....

I have a difficult time getting gemstone dealers in other countries to send me accurate non enhanced photos let alone accurate gemstone descriptions, so if you can somehow get them to do what you are proposing I'll be the first one to take my hat off to you.

Exactly!

If you look at the diamond listings here on Pricescope most range from $3000 and up to 10's of thousands. No one is going to bother entering a $300 stone into some database and then pay some fee to have it there. For the more expensive colored stones, they are too rare to make such a project worthwhile, plus unlike diamonds colored stones are not cut in a few standard shapes with proportions that have been calculated to be ideal. I have I would guess over 1000 designs that I cut, of all different shapes ratios etc. They vary for each range of refractive index. With a diamond you are working with only one refractive index so the variations a so so much less. Then in colored stones with concave and fantasy cut, high domes, buff tops... its almost endless.

I always thought of buying a diamond is much like buying tires for your car. You select the wheel size, width, and the all season, snow, or performance.

A color stone is more like buying an outfit.... the options are endless.

 

[shelovesinclusions]

OK I am intrigued by this idea to be sure! I can usually describe what I want and it would be rather faster if I could just look up which dealers had what I wanted. Let's brainstorm a little just for fun, what categories would we have to have?

So I am thinking the GIA colored gem grading code is a good start:
-hue, with primary and modifier, e.g. "slightly purplish red / slpR"
-tone, (from colorless / extremely light to extremely dark/black)
-saturation values (grayish, slightly grayish, very slightly grayish, moderately strong, strong, vivid -- and the same for brown colors)

The key here would be that it would be something a vendor could do by eye but that a lab like GIA would be able to back up if there were discrepancies, yes? This is why I didn't say percentage red-green-blue, or Pantone color cards which is what gemfix does and which I also like, but I assume those would be hard to get a large number of vendors to buy in on.

For other categories I like the way Wildfish gems does it e.g. https://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/unheated_ceylon_sapphire_1_00/1086/22120

-cutting grade (I like the brilliancy and depth as Ed has it)
-color zoning
-origin
-clarity
-fluorescence
-other optical effects?

and then of course the usual suspects like treatment, carat weight, shape.

Also maybe whether there is color shifting under different light sources, IDK how to handle that

Soooo... rather more than 4 C's, but I think it would be doable!

It would be interesting to see how the market changed if something like this got traction!

Definitely only for fun, because I think it's easier to reach out and to have professional correspondence or interactions when serious interest is involved. Some of these are vendor characteristics, too. And it's bordering satire, but just to highlight overlooked considerations.

Drop downs
-Cut or rough
-Cut style (step/mixed/Portuguese/proprietary)
-Cut by
-Primary inclusion type
-A secondary hue option
-All the opal categories (color play brightness, darkness of base)
-Market origin (dealer, broker, mine, etc)
-Seller type
-Inspection period (range of days)
-Restocking fee (% range)

Yes/no options
-Video available?
-Hand shots available? /s
-Requires custom setting?
-In-house jewelery services?
-In-house lapidary?
-New (meaning never set)?
-Returns accepted?

Since so many CS fans are used to trade-offs, the ability to perform a priority based search would be so awesome too.

 

[PrecisionGem]

You are so very wrong.
The vendors we have selling diamonds range from 1 person op's to large companies.
Most are small to very small operations.

Featured Sponsors

VENDORS & ADVERTISERS VENDORS & ADVERTISERS PriceScope Vetted Vendors and Advertisers As the world’s largest diamond and jewelry community, PriceScope is a place where many would like to advertise and […]

www.pricescope.com

Because there is big B2B boards we do not allow thousands of sellers selling the exact same diamonds.
But the color market has no B2B's so we can have hundreds of honest sellers.
(we have booted some bodgy diamond dealers off PS and have very strict rules for new applicants)

I think most of us in the color market sell B2B, often it's most of our business.

So what do you charge for a company to be listed in Pricescope and have stones in your database? Does Pricescope take a commission on a sale?

As far as creating a similar database so many things don't make sense when it comes to proportions of the cut. Often I am asked these kinds of things because people are used to buying diamonds, where you can tell by the numbers how the stone will look. In color this isn't possible, you need to use your own eyes and look at the stone.

Here's an example of 4 different round cuts I do, and have many many more. All will cut a beautiful stone, but notice the big difference in proportions and table size.

The last image is what we call a SRB ( Standard Round Brilliant ) this is similar to the round that is used when cutting diamonds.

With each of these designs, I would adjust the angles to suit the refractive index of the gem material being cut. So these 4 could turn into 12 or 16 more designs.

 

[deorwine]

Exactly!

If you look at the diamond listings here on Pricescope most range from $3000 and up to 10's of thousands. No one is going to bother entering a $300 stone into some database and then pay some fee to have it there. For the more expensive colored stones, they are too rare to make such a project worthwhile, plus unlike diamonds colored stones are not cut in a few standard shapes with proportions that have been calculated to be ideal. I have I would guess over 1000 designs that I cut, of all different shapes ratios etc. They vary for each range of refractive index. With a diamond you are working with only one refractive index so the variations a so so much less. Then in colored stones with concave and fantasy cut, high domes, buff tops... its almost endless.

I always thought of buying a diamond is much like buying tires for your car. You select the wheel size, width, and the all season, snow, or performance.

A color stone is more like buying an outfit.... the options are endless.

Lol, this is how out-of-touch I am, I didn't even realize that you would have to pay a fee to put the stone in the database! Yeah, I agree, no one's gonna do that for their $300 stones.

I could see that for the more expensive stones it might be worth it for the vendor, though. Honestly from the consumer side, being able to do a search by hue/tone/saturation would save me a lot of emails to the tune of "so when you say 'neon'... what does that mean exactly?" and "is there any violet component to this blue? What about green?" and "do you have any sapphires that are medium tone?" And hey, not having to deal with my ton of questions might in fact be worth it for the vendor. Just think of all the time that one could spend doing cutting instead!

Agree though that shape may not be the best standardized thing, and you couldn't really talk about ratios and proportions the way you do with diamonds. Still seems to me that the vast majority of colored stones -- even yours! -- are cut in fairly standard outlines -- round, oval, cushion, etc. -- and practically speaking it should be possible to put in an "Other" flag where one can note that the rectangular cut and say "oh btw this is concave cut" or whatever. Though I guess I'm severely underestimating how many people ask about cut proportions, @PrecisionGem! I'm not particularly into diamonds relative to colored gems, so it's never even occurred to me to ask about cut proportions.

(Just to be clear, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, @PrecisionGem; I don't know that I really think this is a practical idea for the reasons you and others have stated. But I do kind of love doing thought experiments, and I think it's interesting to think through the pros and cons and what might go horribly wrong, or even right.)

 

[deorwine]

I think most of us in the color market sell B2B, often it's most of our business.

So what do you charge for a company to be listed in Pricescope and have stones in your database? Does Pricescope take a commission on a sale?

As far as creating a similar database so many things don't make sense when it comes to proportions of the cut. Often I am asked these kinds of things because people are used to buying diamonds, where you can tell by the numbers how the stone will look. In color this isn't possible, you need to use your own eyes and look at the stone.

Here's an example of 4 different round cuts I do, and have many many more. All will cut a beautiful stone, but notice the big difference in proportions and table size.

The last image is what we call a SRB ( Standard Round Brilliant ) this is similar to the round that is used when cutting diamonds.

With each of these designs, I would adjust the angles to suit the refractive index of the gem material being cut. So these 4 could turn into 12 or 16 more designs.

This is fascinating Gene. I assume there are different situations in which you would use these different types of cuts to "show off" the gems better? Like... I would think #2 with the slightly rounded pavilion would be good with lighter gems where you want to intensify the color a bit; is that right or am I totally off base?

 

[PrecisionGem]

I have posted this information a few time here, but I'll do it again. There is a company GemeWizard that makes a free app for you smart phone that will let you describe color very accurately. So far I think I have only had one person use it to ask about color with me. It would let both the customer and vendor be on the same page with color, and it translates the color into the GIA color set.

Here's an example showing a hue of green, and various combinations of tone and saturation for that hue.

 

[arkieb1]

@deorwine - the prices of the stones is only one issue, you are correct about lighting. When I've been to gemshows for example, a lot of the tables use different lamps or lighting. What that means is the reds and orange sections are under certain lamps or lights that bump up or enhance the colour of those stones and blues and greens are under another different type of lamps or lights to bump up, amp up or show off the colour of them. Different coloured stones are under different types of lighting to best show them off.

A lot of the time not only are coloured stones shown in videos and photos under various different types of lighting, said photos are also enhanced, photoshopped or messed with, sometimes to get a more accurate colour, sometimes simply to sell the product. I can think of one really popular well priced vendor people on here love that sells on Etsy I've purchased stones from that look nothing like the photos she posts.

This is a good article about the lighting issues;

Colored Stone Light Source - Ganoksin Jewelry Making Community

Can the colored stone industry choose a standard light source from the multitude on the market? Find out more about colored stone light source.

www.ganoksin.com

Standardising it like @Garry H (Cut Nut) wants to do would be great, do I think that you could force every single vendor to do that? I seriously doubt it but it would be fantastic to see....

So the problem @Garry H (Cut Nut) is not only do you need to standardise the production and cutting of the stones, you then have to also standardise the way they are sold, ie the way they are displayed, the lighting situation they are displayed or photographed in, and standardise the way those photos are presented to consumers. Doing all of those things I assume will mean a higher cost passed on to the consumer. Some consumers will wear that, others will not.

 

[finerthings]

[QUOTE="PrecisionGem, post: 4737471, member: 9971"

... I always thought of buying a diamond is much like buying tires for your car. You select the wheel size, width, and the all season, snow, or performance.

A color stone is more like buying an outfit.... the options are endless.
[/QUOTE]

So well said @PrecisionGem!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I what you are proposing works for gemstones valued over a certain amount, but under a certain amount it isn't worth it from an economic POV to bother....
I have a difficult time getting gemstone dealers in other countries to send me accurate non enhanced photos let alone accurate gemstone descriptions, so if you can somehow get them to do what you are proposing I'll be the first one to take my hat off to you.

The difference is if they are posting and listing here they will be called out. We will ban cheats. You guys will rubbish them. they will change or drop out.
Have you ever known of a PS vendor who cheated and did not recify?
The only one you know of in the past year or 3 was kicked out and went bankrupt.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

This is mostly a thought exercise for me because like @voce and @arkieb1 (I can't speak for @Garry H (Cut Nut) of course, he may have different thoughts on what he wants to accomplish.)
I think you guys know this better than me! e.g. you can solve the color shift lighting. If you want help - I can find and sell globes and LED's etc from Ideal-scope.com that we agree are fair and accurate. But part of the vendor agreement on PS will always be a decent return period.
Actually a bigger problem I see with this is color shift in different lighting
@Garry H (Cut Nut) I'll make a poll, hopefully when I take my lunch break, because I'm interested to see the answers

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Exactly!

If you look at the diamond listings here on Pricescope most range from $3000 and up to 10's of thousands. No one is going to bother entering a $300 stone into some database and then pay some fee to have it there. For the more expensive colored stones, they are too rare to make such a project worthwhile, plus unlike diamonds colored stones are not cut in a few standard shapes with proportions that have been calculated to be ideal. I have I would guess over 1000 designs that I cut, of all different shapes ratios etc. They vary for each range of refractive index. With a diamond you are working with only one refractive index so the variations a so so much less. Then in colored stones with concave and fantasy cut, high domes, buff tops... its almost endless.

I always thought of buying a diamond is much like buying tires for your car. You select the wheel size, width, and the all season, snow, or performance.

A color stone is more like buying an outfit.... the options are endless.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Definitely only for fun, because I think it's easier to reach out and to have professional correspondence or interactions when serious interest is involved. Some of these are vendor characteristics, too. And it's bordering satire, but just to highlight overlooked considerations.

Drop downs
-Cut or rough
-Cut style (step/mixed/Portuguese/proprietary)
-Cut by
-Primary inclusion type
-A secondary hue option
-All the opal categories (color play brightness, darkness of base)
-Market origin (dealer, broker, mine, etc)
-Seller type
-Inspection period (range of days)
-Restocking fee (% range)

Yes/no options
-Video available?
-Hand shots available? /s
-Requires custom setting?
-In-house jewelery services?
-In-house lapidary?
-New (meaning never set)?
-Returns accepted?

Since so many CS fans are used to trade-offs, the ability to perform a priority based search would be so awesome too.

I cant fit it all in:

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I think most of us in the color market sell B2B, often it's most of our business.

So what do you charge for a company to be listed in Pricescope and have stones in your database? Does Pricescope take a commission on a sale?

As far as creating a similar database so many things don't make sense when it comes to proportions of the cut. Often I am asked these kinds of things because people are used to buying diamonds, where you can tell by the numbers how the stone will look. In color this isn't possible, you need to use your own eyes and look at the stone.

Here's an example of 4 different round cuts I do, and have many many more. All will cut a beautiful stone, but notice the big difference in proportions and table size.

The last image is what we call a SRB ( Standard Round Brilliant ) this is similar to the round that is used when cutting diamonds.

With each of these designs, I would adjust the angles to suit the refractive index of the gem material being cut. So these 4 could turn into 12 or 16 more designs.

The cut thing is easy - the business model is for Andrey the CEO - but broadly we could have various options from per stone listing, packages for 1,000, 5,000, 100,000 stones, plus banners balah blah or affiliate models.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

@deorwine - the prices of the stones is only one issue, you are correct about lighting. When I've been to gemshows for example, a lot of the tables use different lamps or lighting. What that means is the reds and orange sections are under certain lamps or lights that bump up or enhance the colour of those stones and blues and greens are under another different type of lamps or lights to bump up, amp up or show off the colour of them. Different coloured stones are under different types of lighting to best show them off.

A lot of the time not only are coloured stones shown in videos and photos under various different types of lighting, said photos are also enhanced, photoshopped or messed with, sometimes to get a more accurate colour, sometimes simply to sell the product. I can think of one really popular well priced vendor people on here love that sells on Etsy I've purchased stones from that look nothing like the photos she posts.

This is a good article about the lighting issues;

Colored Stone Light Source - Ganoksin Jewelry Making Community

Can the colored stone industry choose a standard light source from the multitude on the market? Find out more about colored stone light source.

www.ganoksin.com

Standardising it like @Garry H (Cut Nut) wants to do would be great, do I think that you could force every single vendor to do that? I seriously doubt it but it would be fantastic to see....

So the problem @Garry H (Cut Nut) is not only do you need to standardise the production and cutting of the stones, you then have to also standardise the way they are sold, ie the way they are displayed, the lighting situation they are displayed or photographed in, and standardise the way those photos are presented to consumers. Doing all of those things I assume will mean a higher cost passed on to the consumer. Some consumers will wear that, others will not.

Absolutely, but the process comes from us to the vendors. For Example one of the respected diamond sellers on PS has the video system that i helped develop - they tricked it up to show amazing fire flashes. But have recently added another option because the fire flashes mean you have no way to see inclusions. The additional option has, I am guessing, come about because of PS peer pressure to conform to what has become a norm

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I have posted this information a few time here, but I'll do it again. There is a company GemeWizard that makes a free app for you smart phone that will let you describe color very accurately. So far I think I have only had one person use it to ask about color with me. It would let both the customer and vendor be on the same page with color, and it translates the color into the GIA color set.

Here's an example showing a hue of green, and various combinations of tone and saturation for that hue.

Yes, with diamonds - we can grade even if we are color blind using just tone. Colour is way way more complex, and you all know it is a 3 axis plus inclusion impacted.
We can manage the color. As the official Cut Nut around here - we can manage cut and shapes and art cuts and all

 

[shelovesinclusions]

I cant fit it all in:

Get to building then.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Get to building then.

DóH! I cant fit it all in a snippy from the website page hahahaha

There are squillions of variables in the jewellery search.
don't tell me color stones have too many variables.

 

[PrecisionGem]

The cut thing is easy - the business model is for Andrey the CEO - but broadly we could have various options from per stone listing, packages for 1,000, 5,000, 100,000 stones, plus banners balah blah or affiliate models.

Well cutters like myself and many others that are popular cut all our own goods. There is no way I could list even 100 stones. So like I said, you would be eliminating the small guy completely and have no cutters, only dealers selling commercial goods.

 

[lilmosun]

Pre RapNet and Rapaport price lists prices ranged much much higher than post.
I have seen diamonds from the 1970's and 1980's that never ever reached the price originally paid for them.

You were talking about standardization for quality and commercialization...not standardized price lists. -and- 4 C's and "Diamond is Forever" was long before the 70's and 80's.

Again - my point - if coloured gems are under valued it is because the gem industry treats them poorly and has no clue as to how to organise itself or market these beautiful products.
It has no standards, totally opaque, totally confusing.

Again - is there a way PriceScope can help address the marketing issues and make things more open and transparent (disclosure - I am a tiny minority share holder in PS).

So if your point is that coloured gems are undervalued, how would your proposal not increase prices? (My point)

Admittedly, this thread has taken so many turns that I wasn't sure what your point was and it felt like it was to provoke. But if it is to see if PS can do for colored stones what it has done for diamonds, I think you need to seek out vendors, not us consumers. (PrecisionGem is the only vendor I see providing in put here).

My personal thoughts

- The vendors a lot of us here buy from are small..i.e. don't have thousands of cut stones in their inventory.

- The larger vendors that I personally buy from get most of their sales from trade shows and/or wholesale. The former are final sales (unless you are a regular) and the later where businesses will buy whole lots.

- Why would the industry at large go for it when they can sell in bulk to the likes of JTV, commercial jewelry manufacturers? They might get a higher price for a particular stone but it's much easier and more profitable to sell in bulk at a lower price.

- Most consumers don't care about treatments, color, size - they just want what looks pretty to them. Most of my friends are just as happy with their JTV and cruise ship purchases. My local jeweler, who's shop is in a high income area buys used jewelry - typically at very fair prices - but he won't give me anything for most of my colored stones because they aren't what people are looking for...diamonds, gold, blue sapphires - no problem.

- It would benefit newcomers looking for a stone with particular qualities. But personally (too) many of my purchases are impulse buys rather than specific searches.

BUT if PS came up with a CS search tool that allowed me to search the inventory of reputable vendors who sell the quality of stones I seek, I might use as a starting point it if looking for something.

The question is can you stock the tool with enough vendors/inventory at the prices we are used to paying for the same quality? If so, please do it.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Well cutters like myself and many others that are popular cut all our own goods. There is no way I could list even 100 stones. So like I said, you would be eliminating the small guy completely and have no cutters, only dealers selling commercial goods.

That is nonsense. It would not cost you much. CBI diamonds are similar and make probably half their sales via PS.

 

[lilmosun]

Well cutters like myself and many others that are popular cut all our own goods. There is no way I could list even 100 stones. So like I said, you would be eliminating the small guy completely and have no cutters, only dealers selling commercial goods.

Saw you posted this while I wrote a book...and I think I am fair in saying that vendors like you are the ones that a lot of us buy from (not always but a lot) and in many cases, have built relationships with.

 

[lilmosun]

That is nonsense. It would not cost you much. CBI diamonds are similar and make probably half their sales via PS.

My guess is that their profit per stone is much higher too.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

You were talking about standardization for quality and commercialization...not standardized price lists. -and- 4 C's and "Diamond is Forever" was long before the 70's and 80's.



So if your point is that coloured gems are undervalued, how would your proposal not increase prices? (My point)

Admittedly, this thread has taken so many turns that I wasn't sure what your point was and it felt like it was to provoke. But if it is to see if PS can do for colored stones what it has done for diamonds, I think you need to seek out vendors, not us consumers. (PrecisionGem is the only vendor I see providing in put here).

My personal thoughts

- The vendors a lot of us here buy from are small..i.e. don't have thousands of cut stones in their inventory.

- The larger vendors that I personally buy from get most of their sales from trade shows and/or wholesale. The former are final sales (unless you are a regular) and the later where businesses will buy whole lots.

- Why would the industry at large go for it when they can sell in bulk to the likes of JTV, commercial jewelry manufacturers? They might get a higher price for a particular stone but it's much easier and more profitable to sell in bulk at a lower price.

- Most consumers don't care about treatments, color, size - they just want what looks pretty to them. Most of my friends are just as happy with their JTV and cruise ship purchases. My local jeweler, who's shop is in a high income area buys used jewelry - typically at very fair prices - but he won't give me anything for most of my colored stones because they aren't what people are looking for...diamonds, gold, blue sapphires - no problem.

- It would benefit newcomers looking for a stone with particular qualities. But personally (too) many of my purchases are impulse buys rather than specific searches.

BUT if PS came up with a CS search tool that allowed me to search the inventory of reputable vendors who sell the quality of stones I seek, I might use as a starting point it if looking for something.

The question is can you stock the tool with enough vendors/inventory at the prices we are used to paying for the same quality? If so, please do it.

I started this thread on a totallly different topic - how crappy an emerald cutter video that GIA sent out with a message like "how wonderful these cutters are."
I was appalled at the century old processes.

the idea of a platform came much later.

If that pltform was to work it would be because we designed it for colored gem lovers.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

My guess is that their profit per stone is much higher too.

Nonsense

 

[lilmosun]

I started this thread on a totallly different topic - how crappy an emerald cutter video that GIA sent out with a message like "how wonderful these cutters are."
I was appalled at the century old processes.

the idea of a platform came much later.

If that pltform was to work it would be because we designed it for colored gem lovers.

Got it. Maybe start a new thread on what we would like to see in the platform...but you need to determine vendor interest. Because without them, it's just a pipe dream no matter what we (consumers) want.

You can find a list of vendors that are most often referred to here:

List of Vendors For Reference

Please do not comment in this thread. Ella is going to replace the old sticky thread with this one. Please do not leave comments on this thread! These are the list of vendors that some people have had a good experience with. Your experience may not be the same. Please search the vendor in this...

www.pricescope.com

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Got it. Maybe start a new thread on what we would like to see in the platform...but you need to determine vendor interest. Because without them, it's just a pipe dream no matter what we (consumers) want.

You can find a list of vendors that are most often referred to here:

List of Vendors For Reference

Please do not comment in this thread. Ella is going to replace the old sticky thread with this one. Please do not leave comments on this thread! These are the list of vendors that some people have had a good experience with. Your experience may not be the same. Please search the vendor in this...

www.pricescope.com

somoene was going to start a poll to gauge interest
that would become the yea or nay and then move to w, w w and how
I feel like an intruder here - so somone else start or we forget about it

 

[arkieb1]

Absolutely, but the process comes from us to the vendors. For Example one of the respected diamond sellers on PS has the video system that i helped develop - they tricked it up to show amazing fire flashes. But have recently added another option because the fire flashes mean you have no way to see inclusions. The additional option has, I am guessing, come about because of PS peer pressure to conform to what has become a norm

Read from page 3 onwards (or the whole lot if you like);

Dan Stair doesn't want PSers?!

Wow. I'm copying and pasting it here for the record: "PRICESCOPE MEMBERS - Due to my desire to concentrate on cutting more stones, I will no longer respond to your requests for additional photos and videos on the hand or in different lighting. Additionally, because of your high return rate...

www.pricescope.com

These guys are complaining about things like having to take more photos, that PSers return stones to them, that we give our opinions on less than optimal stones, not in favourable ways, that is what many of the "trusted" vendors actually think of us....

My point is that if they don't want to take more photos and it isn't cost effective to do that I sincerely doubt they are all going to want to get on board with any system you create.

And if we are going to use Dan as an example, he sells affordable ie well priced generally inexpensive stones, in his defence I don't see how someone like him would make the model you are proposing work perhaps @Lee Little and Dan & Jim and any other vendors might like to have a say....

 

[arkieb1]

Well cutters like myself and many others that are popular cut all our own goods. There is no way I could list even 100 stones. So like I said, you would be eliminating the small guy completely and have no cutters, only dealers selling commercial goods.

That is what I see too, @Garry H (Cut Nut) the model works for places like Gem2000, Nomads and large wholesalers, it works for businesses that have a large number of stones in their inventories like Prima Gems and Multicolour, but it will severely disadvantage smaller vendors with small inventories, all I see is the prices of stones rising.

If the consumers here are anything to go by most of them want cheaper well cut stones, they want to pay less for them not more for them. There is always a market for high end precision cut more expensive stones, but that is not the bulk of what consumers here buy and we are educated relatively speaking so if we reflect what consumers out in the "real" world want then I'm still not convinced the model works from a pricing POV.