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Who can duplicate this setting?

maxandsam

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
Messages
39
Hi everyone. I have been lurking here for a while and am finally at the stage in my life where I am ready to proceed :) My GF likes David Yurman (personally, I am not a fan of it and like guy mentality, I want more value for the diamond). She particularly likes the Capri setting, which is a round solitaire with a halo (http://www.davidyurman.com/products/wedding/engagement-rings/dy-capri-engagement-ring-collection-/dy-capri-pave-engagement-ring-in-platinum-wr1056pl.html?lpos=PLP-1&item=wr1056rpl&source=plp).

I went to the store to see it and it looks nothing special to me. The only thing that I can see is that the setting of the halo is more flush and tight compared to ones in typical jewelry stores. After doing research, she went with me to a jeweler where she looked at the Stuller book to see all the designs and it was explained to her that custom designs can be made.

My good friend's parents own a jewelry store so they told me to look at diamond selections at stuller and they can just order the diamond for me at cost (which is awesome). So now the question remains is the setting.

Do you all have suggestions of a jeweler that can duplicate the Capri design, particularly how the halo looks more "tight" or "continuous" with the diamond? Some halos have visible larger bezels and pavé diamonds that look more chunky around it.

edit: I've read previously on this forum of this designer: http://www.stevenkirsch.com/engagement/halo/r0113.html Does anyone have this model and can comment on how close it is to Yurman aka ripoff :)

Thanks a lot.
 

kb1gra

Brilliant_Rock
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Jul 6, 2012
Messages
1,118
I can't say that I've ever heard of someone buying a diamond at Stuller. I guess I'm sure they sell them, but they have no prices listed online so I have no idea how you'd compare the value of the stone you're getting. They also only have one section of diamonds that even come with grading reports so it all seems a bit low-rent to me.

Steven Kirsch is in a completely different league from Stuller as far as workmanship - what kind of price are you looking to pay for this setting? And for what size center stone?
 

pinkjewel

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
2,362
Is it just the halo style she likes or does she also want the typical Yurman cable style at the back of the shank? You might want to contact Brilliantly Engaged for a quote on a ring like this.

eta- OK- I wasn't going to say anything, but.... we hear more horror stories about diamonds from people who have bought them from jeweler "friends". Just saying you might want to do some checking yourself
 

maxandsam

Rough_Rock
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Oct 12, 2015
Messages
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My budget is 15k-20k. I called Kirsch and his setting is about 4k which leaves about anywhere from 11k -16k for the stone. I want round solitaire and I want eye clean and I am leaning towards excellent cut and color h and vs1 or higher. Her main concern (which I fully agree with) is that the halo is much tighter versus big box commercial jewelers. That is her priority. I agree b/c the lack of bezel on halo gives the illusion of a much larger stone.

I called Kirsch's store and since I am out of state, they said they can spare me tax (which is awesome) and that they make money off the setting and could pass wholesale price of diamonds along. Can anyone verify this?

I told the rep my priorities and that if she gave me good diamonds that pricescope says is decent deal then I will just move forward with everything through them.

I am going to do more research of Kirsch, but so far I have read good reviews on his services.
 

kb1gra

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
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maxandsam|1444670191|3937482 said:
My budget is 15k-20k. I called Kirsch and his setting is about 4k which leaves about anywhere from 11k -16k for the stone. I want round solitaire and I want eye clean and I am leaning towards excellent cut and color h and vs1 or higher. Her main concern (which I fully agree with) is that the halo is much tighter versus big box commercial jewelers. That is her priority. I agree b/c the lack of bezel on halo gives the illusion of a much larger stone.

I called Kirsch's store and since I am out of state, they said they can spare me tax (which is awesome) and that they make money off the setting and could pass wholesale price of diamonds along. Can anyone verify this?

I told the rep my priorities and that if she gave me good diamonds that pricescope says is decent deal then I will just move forward with everything through them.

I am going to do more research of Kirsch, but so far I have read good reviews on his services.
You will probably at the very least save some $$ on the setting of you get the diamond from Steven.

If you want a round probably worth consulting Victor Canera's site as he has his diamond selection online and can source more.

For that kind of budget for the stone I would not even consider ordering something from Stuller.
 

daydreamergrl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
Messages
5
Just buy the setting she wants. She has to wear it not you. I'd be angry if my husband got some cheap knockoff and forced me to wear the ugly thing. :angryfire:
 

maxandsam

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
Messages
39
daydreamergrl|1444675828|3937519 said:
Just buy the setting she wants. She has to wear it not you. I'd be angry if my husband got some cheap knockoff and forced me to wear the ugly thing. :angryfire:

I didn't say that I want cheap knock off.

I want a better value and quality compared to what you would pay for at a place like Yurman. A custom designed one like SK-made would IMO be vastly superior and likely larger stone for the same price.

This one looks prob like what I would get albeit round: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...rom-erd-halo-setting-by-steven-kirsch.162955/
 

kb1gra

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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daydreamergrl|1444675828|3937519 said:
Just buy the setting she wants. She has to wear it not you. I'd be angry if my husband got some cheap knockoff and forced me to wear the ugly thing. :angryfire:

Well, that was unnecessarily aggressive. I don't think most of us here (and we're a pretty picky lot) would kick a steven kirsch setting out of bed.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Maxandsam, I recommend ignoring daydreamergrl, she(?) has a total of five posts, three of which are insulting to other posters.

I own a few Yurman pieces and you've received excellent advice - SK's workmanship will blow Yurman's out of the water, and his workshop is most certainly capable of making the "tight", delicate, fluid halo that your intended is looking for ::)

Please, please don't buy a round brilliant diamond sight-unseen without a report from GIA or AGSL!

In terms of the design itself - I would not suggest having SK replicate the Yurman cable shank interior, for three reasons:
1. That is a classic Yurman feature - it's a detail that makes that setting 'iconically Yurman', and in my (very strong) opinion it's too suggestive of that designer to have another duplicate, and
2. No one will EVER see it IRL when she's wearing it, including HER, so avoiding it poses no undesirable change to practical look and feel whatsoever, and
3. A plain rounded interior will be way more comfortable anyway!
 

maxandsam

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
39
Yssie|1444678530|3937552 said:
Maxandsam, I recommend ignoring daydreamergrl, she(?) has a total of five posts, three of which are insulting to other posters.

I own a few Yurman pieces and you've received excellent advice - SK's workmanship will blow Yurman's out of the water, and his workshop is most certainly capable of making the "tight", delicate, fluid halo that your intended is looking for ::)

Please, please don't buy a round brilliant diamond sight-unseen without a report from GIA or AGSL!

In terms of the design itself - I would not suggest having SK replicate the Yurman cable shank interior, for three reasons:
1. That is a classic Yurman feature - it's a detail that makes that setting 'iconically Yurman', and in my (very strong) opinion it's too suggestive of that designer to have another duplicate, and
2. No one will EVER see it IRL when she's wearing it, including HER, so avoiding it poses no undesirable change to practical look and feel whatsoever, and
3. A plain rounded interior will be way more comfortable anyway!

Of course I would NEVER buy a diamond without a report. I will see what SK's rep offers and have all your expert opinions after I plug into HCA tool :)

Anyone here bought a diamond through him in combination with setting?

Lastly, I understand notion #1. Her main concern is the tight fit of halo around it. Her limited evaluations (and I cannot believe that I know so much more about diamonds now vs her) showed her that their halo fit is much better than examples seen in stores for the masses (e.g. Jared or something like that).
 

mrs-b

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Hi maxandsam :wavey:

Jared / Zales / Kay Jewelers use premade settings, then plop stones into them. Virtually ANY well made setting will fit its center stone better than those. So please don't feel you have to go with a Yurman design to get that fit. Some of the jewelers we recommend here are legendary in the tightness of their settings (and though I think Steven K is a good jeweler, I'm specifically thinking of Victor Canera here).

As for the twist under the shank, I would check with your girlfriend that this is something she can live without. Although you wouldn't see it from above, you would see it from the side, and it gives a curved, softer feel to the shank - even from above - that the SK setting you linked to doesn't have. (I actually find that particular setting of Steven's very flat in the shank and a bit too square for my taste.) So if she's looking for a softer look, you might want to make that clear to whichever jeweler you eventually work with.

If you're going to pick the stone yourself, please come back here with the GIA or AGS number so we can check the stats and give you some feedback; jewelry stores owned by friends, or families of friends, have generated horror story after horror story on these boards. To be very clear, I would never buy a center diamond over which I didn't have total control and veto, plus plenty of time to check its stats and get second opinions if needed.

I'm sure you'll come up with a fabulous ring and it definitely seems that you're on the right track!
 

maxandsam

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
Messages
39
mrs-blop|1444685762|3937596 said:
Hi maxandsam :wavey:

Some of the jewelers we recommend here are legendary in the tightness of their settings (and though I think Steven K is a good jeweler, I'm specifically thinking of Victor Canera here).

As for the twist under the shank, I would check with your girlfriend that this is something she can live without. Although you wouldn't see it from above, you would see it from the side, and it gives a curved, softer feel to the shank - even from above - that the SK setting you linked to doesn't have. (I actually find that particular setting of Steven's very flat in the shank and a bit too square for my taste.) So if she's looking for a softer look, you might want to make that clear to whichever jeweler you eventually work with.

Hi there!

Is there a reason you would say Victor over Steven? Is it mainly the design of tightness of halo? (I have been reading both of those and generalizations I have found is that Victor is more and perhaps there is concern over Steven using cast vs all hand forged?)

I took a look at this other ring of his and this looks very good also and is "softer." I did not hear my gf mention anything about the softness from the side. I think I am way more obsessed with this than she is hahah: http://www.stevenkirsch.com/engagement/halo/r0135.html
 

Tourmaline

Ideal_Rock
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Do not buy a center stone from Stuller. They are not known for their diamonds.

I find Steven Kirsch's craftsmanship to be fantastic, but I disagreed with him about stones on a ring he did for me. I think you are better off finding a stone first (with the help of Pricescopers) and then going to him or someone in his league for a knockout setting. Victor Canera also does beautiful halos, and I love what I've seen from Brilliantly Engaged, too.
 

maxandsam

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Tourmaline|1444688695|3937616 said:
I find Steven Kirsch's craftsmanship to be fantastic, but I disagreed with him about stones on a ring he did for me. I think you are better off finding a stone first (with the help of Pricescopers) and then going to him or someone in his league for a knockout setting. Victor Canera also does beautiful halos, and I love what I've seen from Brilliantly Engaged, too.

Can you elaborate on why you feel this way? Was it the price? Suggestion?

I ask because sometimes the time / value ratio diminishes over time. Thanks for your input.
 

kb1gra

Brilliant_Rock
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I will say that I have really enjoyed my dealings with Mark Turnowski at Brilliantly Engaged (he even met me in person close to my home to show me some stones and discuss what I wanted) and have no doubt at all that he could make you exactly what you want and find you a lovely stone.
 

Tourmaline

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maxandsam|1444691810|3937629 said:
Tourmaline|1444688695|3937616 said:
I find Steven Kirsch's craftsmanship to be fantastic, but I disagreed with him about stones on a ring he did for me. I think you are better off finding a stone first (with the help of Pricescopers) and then going to him or someone in his league for a knockout setting. Victor Canera also does beautiful halos, and I love what I've seen from Brilliantly Engaged, too.

Can you elaborate on why you feel this way? Was it the price? Suggestion?

I ask because sometimes the time / value ratio diminishes over time. Thanks for your input.

Here's a thread about my experience with Steven Kirsch:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/disagreement-with-a-pricescope-vendor-about-stones.207422/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/disagreement-with-a-pricescope-vendor-about-stones.207422/[/URL]

It was about rubies, not diamonds, but it left me appreciating his craftsmanship but not trusting him about stones and promises.

I have had wonderful communication with Chris at Brilliantly Engaged and he is doing a project for me right now. He has been responsive, polite and enthusiastic, and I am really looking forward to the finished piece!

Victor Canera's craftsmanship is top-notch, and if you were to go with one of his usual designs, he would be terrific. I don't know if he would be willing to modify his design to look like the one your girlfriend likes, but it couldn't hurt to ask.
 

maxandsam

Rough_Rock
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Oct 12, 2015
Messages
39
Thanks ^^^. Duh :) Now I know.

Can some one with more knowledge give me an evaluation of why/how this rock is good/bad so that I can use that info to evaluate other diamonds if I need to?

Your help is greatly appreciated.
 

kb1gra

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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maxandsam|1444741647|3937780 said:
Thanks ^^^. Duh :) Now I know.

Can some one with more knowledge give me an evaluation of why/how this rock is good/bad so that I can use that info to evaluate other diamonds if I need to?

Your help is greatly appreciated.

In this particular situation, since the diamond is listed at Enchanted with more images, you have some extra information including an idealscope/ H&A images. In this particular case they say the stone is pretty good but not the best of the best. You can see that the arrowheads are not aligned with the arrow shafts and a few of the arrow shafts are longer than others. Is it likely a nice stone? Absolutely. Is it the best of the best of the best of the top 1%? No.

However, the price reflects that. I just did a quick search and among the superideal makes, I found a J/VS2 1.71 CBI, a 1.8 I/VS2 virtual selection stone at whiteflash, and nothing at Brian Gavin in that price range. You're looking at $16k+ to get into this size area. So you weigh that out. I don't think it's a bad performing stone at all, there's a tendency on here to say something must be superideal AGS000 or it is a total dog, which isn't at all true, and especially not if the stone's price reflects its contextual inferiority.
 

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
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I found Pricescope by DESIRING a great stone, for a good price and high quality.. I thought most if not all people found this place because they are looking for the best at a good price rather than overpaying...

I like the Kirsch setting very much for a round diamond and I would love it!

Peace.


Yssie|1444678530|3937552 said:
Maxandsam, I recommend ignoring daydreamergrl, she(?) has a total of five posts, three of which are insulting to other posters.

I own a few Yurman pieces and you've received excellent advice - SK's workmanship will blow Yurman's out of the water, and his workshop is most certainly capable of making the "tight", delicate, fluid halo that your intended is looking for ::)

Please, please don't buy a round brilliant diamond sight-unseen without a report from GIA or AGSL!

In terms of the design itself - I would not suggest having SK replicate the Yurman cable shank interior, for three reasons:
1. That is a classic Yurman feature - it's a detail that makes that setting 'iconically Yurman', and in my (very strong) opinion it's too suggestive of that designer to have another duplicate, and
2. No one will EVER see it IRL when she's wearing it, including HER, so avoiding it poses no undesirable change to practical look and feel whatsoever, and
3. A plain rounded interior will be way more comfortable anyway!
 

maxandsam

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
Messages
39
kb1gra|1444742872|3937791 said:
In this particular situation, since the diamond is listed at Enchanted with more images, you have some extra information including an idealscope/ H&A images. In this particular case they say the stone is pretty good but not the best of the best. You can see that the arrowheads are not aligned with the arrow shafts and a few of the arrow shafts are longer than others. Is it likely a nice stone? Absolutely. Is it the best of the best of the best of the top 1%? No.

However, the price reflects that. I just did a quick search and among the superideal makes, I found a J/VS2 1.71 CBI, a 1.8 I/VS2 virtual selection stone at whiteflash, and nothing at Brian Gavin in that price range. You're looking at $16k+ to get into this size area. So you weigh that out. I don't think it's a bad performing stone at all, there's a tendency on here to say something must be superideal AGS000 or it is a total dog, which isn't at all true, and especially not if the stone's price reflects its contextual inferiority.

Thank you very much. Your feedback makes more sense to me. If this is not top 1%, what would you say it is? (So that I can gauge better).

Is there someone that I can pay on this forum to help search for a diamond? Anyone do that as a hobby?

Also anyone have suggestions as to what size to get? My gf ring size is 5 1/4. Here is a diamond that is from Yurman (ugh) that is 1.29 carats with a halo. This looks big on her hand already. I'm a guy and I just want bigger, but that might not necessarily be best for her hand. Any suggestions?

img_3223.jpg
 

kb1gra

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
1,118
maxandsam|1444743971|3937795 said:
kb1gra|1444742872|3937791 said:
In this particular situation, since the diamond is listed at Enchanted with more images, you have some extra information including an idealscope/ H&A images. In this particular case they say the stone is pretty good but not the best of the best. You can see that the arrowheads are not aligned with the arrow shafts and a few of the arrow shafts are longer than others. Is it likely a nice stone? Absolutely. Is it the best of the best of the best of the top 1%? No.

However, the price reflects that. I just did a quick search and among the superideal makes, I found a J/VS2 1.71 CBI, a 1.8 I/VS2 virtual selection stone at whiteflash, and nothing at Brian Gavin in that price range. You're looking at $16k+ to get into this size area. So you weigh that out. I don't think it's a bad performing stone at all, there's a tendency on here to say something must be superideal AGS000 or it is a total dog, which isn't at all true, and especially not if the stone's price reflects its contextual inferiority.

Thank you very much. Your feedback makes more sense to me. If this is not top 1%, what would you say it is? (So that I can gauge better).

Is there someone that I can pay on this forum to help search for a diamond? Anyone do that as a hobby?

Also anyone have suggestions as to what size to get? My gf ring size is 5 1/4. Here is a diamond that is from Yurman (ugh) that is 1.29 carats with a halo. This looks big on her hand already. I'm a guy and I just want bigger, but that might not necessarily be best for her hand. Any suggestions?

img_3223.jpg

We do it all the time, for free.

You tell us what you want and what you want to pay for the diamond, and we'll help you out.

As far as "what is the top 1%" well, that is open to debate, but you'd be looking at stones from brands like A Cut Above (Whiteflash), Brian Gavin Signature, or any of the other signature H&A diamonds (like Canera's H&A line). You could certainly find a top performer floating around out there unbranded, but it's a lot easier to just deal with a brand at that point.

For me PERSONALLY, Crafted by Infinity sits above those, because I personally like the look, not everyone does but for me, CBI is the epitome of a perfectly cut round diamond. Others might disagree.

As far as stone size, I think it's pretty rare that anyone would kick a bigger stone out of bed. I personally am not a bigger is better person, I wear the same size as your girlfriend and for me a 1.5 in a halo would be plenty big enough, and if it left you enough money to get a really killer stone with your budget then I'd be pretty happy with that. However, I'm not your GF and you're not marrying me :)

what does she usually wear for jewelry? How does she dress? These will help us know what might work.

Somebody put the CBI I was going to recommend to you on hold :( I'll poke around and see what else is interesting...
 

LLJsmom

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Oct 24, 2012
Messages
12,656
Can someone link him to the comparative post of all three Leon, SK AND CANERA? I think about it because he mentions the importance of tightness around the halo. I'm so slammed right now.

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...my-victor-canera-sk-leon-ring-setting.166496/

Dear OP, check out the link comparing these three well regarded hand forgers. You might appreciate the detail of the analysis and the work and choose accordingly. Make sure you check with the PS ers before committing to a stone. I'm a fan of WF personally. ;-). Good luck. And I am biased toward Canera but I wouldnt turn down a Kirsch either. ;-)

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/post-your-victor-canera-beauties-here.175281/
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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With your budget, you have some great options! Here are a few from WF:

If you want to go with an I or H you can maximize your size, but I think the smaller size looked great on your gfs hand too. (and 1.3 is not that small in the real world!!!)

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3408396.htm 1.782 ct I VS2 $16,208
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3508606.htm 1.61 ct H VS2 $15,702
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3508606.htm 1.61 ct H VS2 $15,702
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3057912.htm 1.66 ct F SI1 $15,598
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3577116.htm 1.317 ct G VS2 $11,616
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3577115.htm 1.362 ct F VS2 $13,084
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3372533.htm 1.29 ct E VS1 $14,526
 

maxandsam

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
Messages
39
Thank you for the responses.

I will admit, part of my sizing is based on my ego. I really want to have something bigger than 1.50 carats. My desire is a good even quality/value ratio. I want a ring that sparkles and looks sizable (which it will more so with a halo). I'm not going to lie, part of it is to outshine some friends and also future-proof this ring as much as I can.

With that being said, I don't see value for paying into F or D colors b/c I don't think I or anyone can see it. I don't know how to explain it, but I like having a story behind something. Sure, she will wear the ring, but I like to say that I researched it online with some cool diamond-loving people and found an awesome diamond etc. I like the story and journey behind it.

Anyway, with a diamond that has excellent/ideal cuts, is there much perception b/w H and I color vs F/G?

I looked at these two:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3430624.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3540349.htm

The top one has more pictures and data and I assume it is b/c they have that diamond in house. When you all shop at WF, do you just selectively look at those in-house?
 

kb1gra

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
1,118
maxandsam|1444758298|3937858 said:
Thank you for the responses.

I will admit, part of my sizing is based on my ego. I really want to have something bigger than 1.50 carats. My desire is a good even quality/value ratio. I want a ring that sparkles and looks sizable (which it will more so with a halo). I'm not going to lie, part of it is to outshine some friends and also future-proof this ring as much as I can.

With that being said, I don't see value for paying into F or D colors b/c I don't think I or anyone can see it. I don't know how to explain it, but I like having a story behind something. Sure, she will wear the ring, but I like to say that I researched it online with some cool diamond-loving people and found an awesome diamond etc. I like the story and journey behind it.

Anyway, with a diamond that has excellent/ideal cuts, is there much perception b/w H and I color vs F/G?

I looked at these two:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3430624.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3540349.htm

The top one has more pictures and data and I assume it is b/c they have that diamond in house. When you all shop at WF, do you just selectively look at those in-house?

No, their expert selection stones can be quite nice and represent a small dollar savings over the Cut Above stones. The virtual selection stones are the ones they don't have in stock.

I PERSONALLY can see color in an H or I stone. It doesn't bother me, but I can see it. Not everybody can. Is there a color difference between the two? no, not to me.
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
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4,224
You'll likely be fine with an H, unless you have it next to a D (or other high colour), you will likely not notice much tint in day to day life.
 
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