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Who are the top democratic presidential candidates for 2020?

Queenie60

Ideal_Rock
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Sep 15, 2014
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3,960
Unfortunately the written word comes across differently than the verbal.

Do you think I sat around and ate bonbons? do you think I come from a long line of lazy slugs? Well I don't. I come from hard workers.

Do you think I"m not wealthy? why would you think that?

What is the income of the top 1%? Well I'll tell you! The average income in the top 1% is 1.32million a year.


I want the rich to pay more, and I don't mind paying more, but I am not in the top 1%.. I pay my fair share and percentage wise I probably pay more than someone in the top.001%..

I don't care about inherited wealth per se but I would limit it to 5million, inherited wealth helps ensure eventual lazy descendents, of course the uber rich do marry each other often (Nicky Hilton say).

I plan on leaving my kids some money, but you now what my kids say? They say, don't worry you gave us a lot in life spend your money. So I'm very proud of them. They aren't some sycophants who live on the past dime of hard workers before them.

You do know Harvard is elitist? I think Harvard should be free. How many kids get into Harvard because of 'legacy'? Jeez we have people going to jail because they paid for their kids to get in. yes they are probably 'nouveau riche' and can't get in on legacy you think that is fair? Do you think that just because a kid get's 700 on SATs that they are brainy? I know someone two guys who had perfect SATs and neither one is in the top 1% or for that matter in the top 8%..

Do I think Bernie will produce jobs? probably, certainly in renewable energy.

You don't understand where I'm coming from? Have you read about people who come from nothing and their journey to try and make it, even with hard work?

Do you know how many really rich people invest in jobs? Well most companies used their Trump bump to do stock buy backs to inflate their stock price.

Wonder where all the capital expenditure went with the Trump bump?


Trump did not create jobs with tax cuts.


I believe that we had a huge recession and Obama started the way out of it and Trump has used supply side econ to create a false sense of euphoria, one of the reasons why I think this is because the debt is BIGGLY and HUGE.. What's the use of 'job creation' if it really only means that we, as a country, are going into deeper and deeper.

I don't abhor the uber rich, but I do find them lacking in compassion and interest in lower class and the plight of the regular Joe (of which I am not one btw).

There's a big world out there Queenie.
. Yep, it certainly is a big world out there and I am well aware of that. And you don’t know where I came from just as I don’t know a whole lot about you. I did come from nothing but fortunately was able to make something of myself. And yes i know a lot as I’ve been on the bottom and was able to educate myself and paid for my own education by working several jobs to do so. So, since we will never agree, I’ll exit this conversation as I don’t wish to argue and become bitter to make my point. Not worth it to me. Since I’ve been on both ends as far as having nothing and now something I certainly have a valid opinion. Most millionaires I know have worked quite hard to rise to that level. I never referred to you as being lazy and I’m sure you are a hard working person however we differ in opinions. I wish you well and have no animosity. As Kenny always says, people vary. I broke my own personal rule by choosing to participate in these round and round political conversations
 

vintageloves

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
389
Be careful with those words, @vintageloves . I don't care if you hate him. I don't care if you don't want him as president. And I don't care if you're right about everything else you said.

But be careful throwing this term about. Unless you can prove it - and I mean REALLY prove it - don't use this term. It's a dirty way to push back against someone whose policies you dislike. And it's to tar a person with the worst accusation this society can muster.
I’m suggesting that is how they will be portrayed in a general election. I was not making accusations of actual criminal activity. I find your post to be a serious overreaction, sorry.

The term has been tossed at Joe Biden. The term has been tossed at Donald Trump. That’s politics. It’s dirty, but we’re not exactly dealing with a gentleman’s game here, and Sanders very stupidly left a paper trail the whole party will be forced to answer for if he’s the nominee.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I broke my own personal rule by choosing to participate in these round and round political conversations
Don't worry about it!. Tekate is a very nice person. Although we will never agree politically but I still love her..:wink2:
 

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
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May 11, 2013
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Yup, I cannot say I came from totally nothing but I did come from lower class, blue collar worker with a drinkin' problem, a WWII nice guy.

I paid for my own college, through Pell loans, work study and college loans. Paid back the college loan. I worked as a cleaning lady and another job on work study.. I am not from the rich class.

Queenie you said I am bitter, so no worries if you sound bitter, I handled it.

Most of the millionaires I associate with are open, good hearted people that support the lower class and their ability to come up, just like they did. My husband grew up on a gold course, dad was an engineer, mom a teacher, private school, private college, and he's just like me, he wants all of America to partake in the great things of America, not just the top 10%.

Since I have been on both ends of the argument I too have very valid points also. There has been a saying "I've been poor and I've been rich and rich is better" I would agree with that totally, but I want everyone to have that too, I want those who can to work, The studies re: welfare show that very few people stay on public dependence, basically because they kick you off anyway and have since 1998, thanks to Bill Clinton btw. It's not a lifestyle anymore. Do yourself a favor and read this:


as always most of the people are TANF (welfare) are children.

And Trump has done this to the middle class:


BTW my brother is on SSI so I am familiar with that program.

Republicans don't like SSA... it's up to everyone to make it on their own, EXCEPT that not everyone has access to Harvard, Yale, Brown... not everyone has a rich parent behind them paying their way, I believe poverty can be an impetus for people WANTING to get ahead, not all people, but me people :) I wanted a better life. Even when people want a better life they sometimes cannot reach it.

I have always found that people on the other side of the aisle never point to facts for me to read and they always give up. Convince me I am wrong.

Oh and I am lazy :) now but I am retired and I deserve it.. altho whenever called to babysit my granddaughter Ima there!

I wish you and all people well Queenie, I want everyone to have what you and I have


. Yep, it certainly is a big world out there and I am well aware of that. And you don’t know where I came from just as I don’t know a whole lot about you. I did come from nothing but fortunately was able to make something of myself. And yes i know a lot as I’ve been on the bottom and was able to educate myself and paid for my own education by working several jobs to do so. So, since we will never agree, I’ll exit this conversation as I don’t wish to argue and become bitter to make my point. Not worth it to me. Since I’ve been on both ends as far as having nothing and now something I certainly have a valid opinion. Most millionaires I know have worked quite hard to rise to that level. I never referred to you as being lazy and I’m sure you are a hard working person however we differ in opinions. I wish you well and have no animosity. As Kenny always says, people vary. I broke my own personal rule by choosing to participate in these round and round political conversations
 

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
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I am a nice person but so are you too DF as is Queenie.. sounds like queenie and I have the same background and worked our way up BUT we view life differently that's all.

Life is good for me today :) as for you I know.



Don't worry about it!. Tekate is a very nice person. Although we will never agree politically but I still love her..:wink2:
 

vintageloves

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
389
Why are Bernie supporters so enamored of him? what is he offering that people want? and then I look for a candidate will try to bring the country closer not farther.
Have you performed this exercise with Trump supporters? I understand why Bernie supporters are so enamored with him. But the things that make him so popular are things I think will be to the detriment of this country. So I can’t get closer to that anymore than I can get closer to Trump supporters who want to build a wall.

I think your personal position on changing over to renewables is a very reasonable one. It’s not the one being offered by the candidate we’re talking about, and that candidate has a history of being uncompromising and ideological. I would much, much rather vote for someone who thinks like you on this issue.
 

Queenie60

Ideal_Rock
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I am a nice person but so are you too DF as is Queenie.. sounds like queenie and I have the same background and worked our way up BUT we view life differently that's all.

Life is good for me today :) as for you I know.
Thank you Tekate for your graciousness. I am sure you are a nice person and a hard working person - I respect that. We do differ in opinion however, I respect your opinion just as much as I value mine. I’m glad that we’re civil enough to let this go. I do like you even though I do not know you. And btw - I have a lot of democrat friends! And they’re good people too, we just have a difference of opinion.
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
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I’m suggesting that is how they will be portrayed in a general election. I was not making accusations of actual criminal activity. I find your post to be a serious overreaction, sorry.

The term has been tossed at Joe Biden. The term has been tossed at Donald Trump. That’s politics. It’s dirty, but we’re not exactly dealing with a gentleman’s game here, and Sanders very stupidly left a paper trail the whole party will be forced to answer for if he’s the nominee.
You find my post an over-reaction?

Curious....
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
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And I find yours passive aggressive. But to each his own, I suppose.

ETA Actually, no - just plain aggressive. Some of your comments about Bernie supporters are way over the line and far too generalized. I get that you're panicking, but it doesn't help to take that out on others. Doesn't strengthen your argument, either. If you don't want Bernie elected, pick a different candidate and prove why they're preferable. It would serve your cause far better without alienating people, if votes are the issue.
 

vintageloves

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
389
And I find yours passive aggressive. But to each his own, I suppose.

ETA Actually, no - just plain aggressive. Some of your comments about Bernie supporters are way over the line and far too generalized. I get that you're panicking, but it doesn't help to take that out on others. Doesn't strengthen your argument, either. If you don't want Bernie elected, pick a different candidate and prove why they're preferable. It would serve your cause far better without alienating people, if votes are the issue.
The situation with his supporters has gotten far enough out of hand that SNL has spoofed it, articles are being written about it, and a union in Nevada has released press begging them to stop harassing/threatening them. This isn’t happening with any other candidate. I think you’re going to find a lot of Americans are going to get “aggressive” in the future, where “aggression” is speaking out against the harassment. I don’t think all Sanders supporters are like this. Quite possibly not even a majority. But enough are that some voters consider it an issue. Others may not, and that’s fine too. I do and won’t be shamed from that position.

Personally, I’m fond of Pete Buttigieg’s Rule’s of the Road. He actually has made a point in his campaign of asking his supporters to treat those who disagree with them with respect and does not tolerate harassing/doxxing behavior. His policies are maybe not the best fit for every voter, but it’s just an example of how you can cultivate a positive culture if you desire, and with minimal effort. Elizabeth Warren gave a great speech after the NH primary about how much she respected her competitors and called out members of the party who wanted to “burn it all down” (a common phrase used by the so-called Bernie Bros). I don’t like Warren’s policies, but I have admiration the grace she has shown in the light of the contest not going her way. By contrast, Bernie Sanders gives special access to his events to the members of a Stalinist podcast called Chapo Trap House. Chapo Trap House calls Pete Buttigieg a rat and uses homophobic slurs against him, including a current veiled “joke” that he rapes and murders young men.

I don’t think I’m out of line pointing this out. My only argument is that I will not vote for Bernie, and that this pattern of behavior is one of the many reasons I will not vote for him. I have other candidates I lean towards, but I’m not tied to one. I never set out to change anyone else’s mind. I‘m not naive enough to think a post on pricescope is going to sway the election.

My ire is with an elected official, his policies and the culture he is creating. Your ire seems to be with me. Continue to tisk-tisk me if you feel it necessary, but I am ready to let go and not engage any further.

No matter what happens, I hope the future is good to everyone.
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
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The situation with his supporters has gotten far enough out of hand that SNL has spoofed it, articles are being written about it, and a union in Nevada has released press begging them to stop harassing/threatening them. This isn’t happening with any other candidate. I think you’re going to find a lot of Americans are going to get “aggressive” in the future, where “aggression” is speaking out against the harassment. I don’t think all Sanders supporters are like this. Quite possibly not even a majority. But enough are that some voters consider it an issue. Others may not, and that’s fine too. I do and won’t be shamed from that position.

Personally, I’m fond of Pete Buttigieg’s Rule’s of the Road. He actually has made a point in his campaign of asking his supporters to treat those who disagree with them with respect and does not tolerate harassing/doxxing behavior. His policies are maybe not the best fit for every voter, but it’s just an example of how you can cultivate a positive culture if you desire, and with minimal effort. Elizabeth Warren gave a great speech after the NH primary about how much she respected her competitors and called out members of the party who wanted to “burn it all down” (a common phrase used by the so-called Bernie Bros). I don’t like Warren’s policies, but I have admiration the grace she has shown in the light of the contest not going her way. By contrast, Bernie Sanders gives special access to his events to the members of a Stalinist podcast called Chapo Trap House. Chapo Trap House calls Pete Buttigieg a rat and uses homophobic slurs against him, including a current veiled “joke” that he rapes and murders young men.

I don’t think I’m out of line pointing this out. My only argument is that I will not vote for Bernie, and that this pattern of behavior is one of the many reasons I will not vote for him. I have other candidates I lean towards, but I’m not tied to one. I never set out to change anyone else’s mind. I‘m not naive enough to think a post on pricescope is going to sway the election.

My ire is with an elected official, his policies and the culture he is creating. Your ire seems to be with me. Continue to tisk-tisk me if you feel it necessary, but I am ready to let go and not engage any further.

No matter what happens, I hope the future is good to everyone.
@vintageloves -

I'm not the tiniest little bit 'ire-ish' - with you or with anything you've said. This has nothing to do with anger. I'm not a Bernie supporter and never have been. But that's irrelevant. I had one point and only one. When you used the term 'pedophiliac' - you only later tried to put it into the context of it not being your words. My one point is that it's a big, ugly accusation to attach to anyone without a fully clear and laid out reason why.

Some words should not be thrown around. That's one of them.
 

House Cat

Ideal_Rock
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Don’t they say we have just a few years to reverse climate change? I think the number thrown out was 11 years. We can’t be moderate in regards to this issue. We must be drastic. I know we want to be moderate but that won’t get the job done for our grandchildren. I’m sorry.

Both Bernie’s and Warren’s plan to reverse climate change will provide jobs to those who lose them in the oil industry, etc...
 

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
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Yes I have, I look to Europe, Europe is decently run, it's a union more or less, their people are healthier, their kids score higher on testing. I have been there many times. Their public transportation is great.. trains. These things are important to me. Their college is free. They pay much more for fossil fuel, they are healthier. These things stick in my mind as good for our country.




These things are important to me. Trump has zone zero to even start to fix our infrastructure - at all. Our bridges are falling apart.


not only has Trump done zero for infrastructure on our bridges and roads, he lowered the threshold, that is scary.





Bernie on the Debt


So all of these - to me - are wonderful ideas, maybe a better planet for my granddaughter and my sons. Do I think it will happen if he's elected. HELL NO. If he's elected president, the senate will stay publican and the house will go republican again, that's just the way life is these days, Bernie will use executive power a la Trumpski and Obama.

I want a healthier America, I want a safe America (which means money for military but cut it).. and intelligent America, an infrastructure that is safe. I definitely want a much better environment for our earth so time to start changing our energy to renewables, and as I said VL I will start with my home I am building and a car, now my home will have to have gas for the stove, I'm okay with that. I'm fine with it, I'm FINE with small steps, not tearing the country apart, I am for educating people on how fossil fuels are hurting our environment, actually I am not even against nuclear power altho I betcha Bernie is. I want to progress to a better country, not this banana republic, not the kleptocracy that is running our lives, I want a happier country.

Because I read and I read voraciously and exhaustively I form opinions. Now I'm even willing for Bloomberg to become prez, seriously I'm not that picky I'ma anything but Trump.

You know VL, I don't think Sanders can get anything done by 2030 :) peace.



Have you performed this exercise with Trump supporters? I understand why Bernie supporters are so enamored with him. But the things that make him so popular are things I think will be to the detriment of this country. So I can’t get closer to that anymore than I can get closer to Trump supporters who want to build a wall.

I think your personal position on changing over to renewables is a very reasonable one. It’s not the one being offered by the candidate we’re talking about, and that candidate has a history of being uncompromising and ideological. I would much, much rather vote for someone who thinks like you on this issue.
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
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Just popping in to say that I’m so glad a few Dems are finally able to understand first-hand - with their planned ‘anyone but Trump’ votes - how/why so many Americans felt in 2016 casting our ‘anyone but her’ votes. Carry on :wavey:
 

Dancing Fire

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Do I think Bernie will produce jobs? probably, certainly in renewable energy.


I believe that we had a huge recession and Obama started the way out of it and Trump has used supply side econ to create a false sense of euphoria, one of the reasons why I think this is because the debt is BIGGLY and HUGE.. What's the use of 'job creation' if it really only means that we, as a country, are going into deeper and deeper.
But you don't mind Bernie planning on spending $70 trillion on the so call "the green new deal"?. Maybe him and AOC have $70 trillion in their back pockets. ..:wall:
 

Dancing Fire

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Yes I have, I look to Europe, Europe is decently run, it's a union more or less, their people are healthier, their kids score higher on testing. I have been there many times. Their public transportation is great.. trains. These things are important to me. Their college is free. They pay much more for fossil fuel, they are healthier. These things stick in my mind as good for our country.
Really? The European economy is dying with very slow growth.

High speed public trains will only work in smaller country where most people live pretty close together it will not work in the size of the US.

Look what happened to the high speed train project in my state of Ca. Scrapped! . what a waste of taxpayers money. High speed trains will work with certain routes i.e. from ... Sacto to SF to San Jose, LA to San Diego, but not with the whole state of Ca.
 

Maria D

Brilliant_Rock
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Just popping in to say that I’m so glad a few Dems are finally able to understand first-hand - with their planned ‘anyone but Trump’ votes - how/why so many Americans felt in 2016 casting our ‘anyone but her’ votes. Carry on :wavey:
Wait, what? I have never had a conversation IRL or on this forum where someone gave a fact-based rational explanation, as @vintageloves did about her dislike of Sanders, of why 'anyone but Clinton' was a thing. Where did I miss it in this thread?
 

the_mother_thing

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Wait, what? I have never had a conversation IRL or on this forum where someone gave a fact-based rational explanation, as @vintageloves did about her dislike of Sanders, of why 'anyone but Clinton' was a thing. Where did I miss it in this thread?
I didn’t say it was in this thread; I said in 2016.
 

Tekate

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So that has nothing to do with why I like the EU. Brexit has hurt the EU. The American economy has had slow growth also. Coronavirus has hurt the world.

https://www.cnet.com/news/is-high-speed-rail-in-the-us-ever-going-to-happen/ no reason why high spped cannot work here and continue to gain momentum. My son takes the Acela every other week to DC from NYC. Seriously a better deal than flying. Rather than we can't a better way of thinking is Why not? Not everyone wants to drive all the time. Republicans have a 'war on trains'.




I'd say republicans block CA trains. It's not cheap but perhaps we can cut down on the military spending, I'm for that.



Really? The European economy is dying with very slow growth.

High speed public trains will only work in smaller country where most people live pretty close together it will not work in the size of the US.

Look what happened to the high speed train project in my state of Ca. Scrapped! . what a waste of taxpayers money. High speed trains will work with certain routes i.e. from ... Sacto to SF to San Jose, LA to San Diego, but not with the whole state of Ca.
 

Tekate

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Why should I mind? and no gratuitous cracks, just real answers.


But you don't mind Bernie planning on spending $70 trillion on the so call "the green new deal"?. Maybe him and AOC have $70 trillion in their back pockets. ..:wall:
 

voce

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I was just telling DF yesterday while grocery shopping that the candidates I wanted to win the nominations in the prior years, without researching, I always regret later.

In 2008, I wanted Hillary to win because she was a woman, but after I read her autobiography in 2011, I no longer liked her. The way she talked about the Lewinsky incident struck me as insincere and calculated. Something felt wrong to me at the time, but I couldn't put it into words. After the #MeToo movement, someone else said that Hillary did not acknowledge Lewinsky was a victim, and I quite agree.

In 2016, I wanted Sanders to win, because I was tired of the status quo. I thought Hillary was a wolf in sheep's clothing (Republican values running as a Democrat), and did not go to vote. I knew little of Trump or just how much of a strongman he would become. However, the more I'm reading about Sanders these days, the less I want him to succeed. He's way too focused on his ideology; to me, entrenchment in ideology is a big no-no. Ideology is a fiction, a belief, not objective truth. On the basis of no evidence people can act on belief, but when there's evidence that goes against belief, the right thing to do is to set belief aside and value evidence. I don't think Bernie is the type of person to consider the facts before he goes on hate mongering about the inequality of the status quo.

This time, I have done my research on the candidates and am watching the debates. Last night's debate confirmed my thoughts about each of the candidates. Was this true for others as well? Did anyone change their mind about who they're going to vote for in the Dem primaries?
 

Matata

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Did anyone change their mind about who they're going to vote for in the Dem primaries?
I've said a couple of times in this thread that I'll vote for whomever has the best chance of defeating trump. Now, however, I don't think any of them can defeat him so I'll vote for whomever I think has the best debating skills to be able to embarrass trump during debates to the point that his blood pressure rises to the level required for his head to explode. Warren, Klobuchar and perhaps Buttigieg have the ability to do that imo. Absent that scenario, I'll still vote for whomever wins the democratic nomination.

I fear we'll repeat 2016. Trump loses popular vote and wins electoral college. I desperately hope I'm wrong.
 

Dancing Fire

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Klobuchar would be my choice for the Dems.
 

Dancing Fire

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https://www.cnet.com/news/is-high-speed-rail-in-the-us-ever-going-to-happen/ no reason why high spped cannot work here and continue to gain momentum. My son takes the Acela every other week to DC from NYC. Seriously a better deal than flying. Rather than we can't a better way of thinking is Why not? Not everyone wants to drive all the time. Republicans have a 'war on trains'.
As I said certain routes will work like from DC to NYC to Boston? but not replacing I 80 across the country with high speed train.
 

marcy

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As I said certain routes will work like from DC to NYC to Boston? but not replacing I 80 across the country with high speed train.
DF here is why a high speed train won't work on I-80. This is I-80 last week near Elk Mountain, Wyoming.

1582257116581.png
 

Tekate

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So, routes in Europe go from big cities also. No one said REPLACE roads, all the places I go on trains in Europe have roads to them, what I said was we need trains, trains for those who don't want to drive cars, for peace of mind.

My son takes the Arcella every week and it stops in some small towns. We need public transportation for those who can't afford a vehicle.. to get to those jobs that republicans want welfare cheats to get so they too can raise their bootstraps. I'm surprised republicans don't want poor people to work. shame.


As I said certain routes will work like from DC to NYC to Boston? but not replacing I 80 across the country with high speed train.
 

Tekate

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Why should I mind? my taxes won't go up much, but those richie rich's now they may feel a pinch and they should.

So are repubs not interested in the poor? in global warming? (don't answer, I know they aren't) it's not 70 trillion it's 17 trillion btw. From the NYTimes

Mr. Sanders was an early supporter of the Green New Deal, an ambitious but nonbinding congressional plan for tackling global warming and economic inequality. He is bestowing that same name upon his new plan, which calls for the United States to eliminate fossil fuel use by 2050.

It declares climate change a national emergency; envisions building new solar, wind and geothermal power sources across the country; and commits $200 billion to help poor nations cope with climate change.




But you don't mind Bernie planning on spending $70 trillion on the so call "the green new deal"?. Maybe him and AOC have $70 trillion in their back pockets. ..:wall:
 

redwood66

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Why should I mind? my taxes won't go up much, but those richie rich's now they may feel a pinch and they should.

So are repubs not interested in the poor? in global warming? (don't answer, I know they aren't) it's not 70 trillion it's 17 trillion btw. From the NYTimes

Mr. Sanders was an early supporter of the Green New Deal, an ambitious but nonbinding congressional plan for tackling global warming and economic inequality. He is bestowing that same name upon his new plan, which calls for the United States to eliminate fossil fuel use by 2050.

It declares climate change a national emergency; envisions building new solar, wind and geothermal power sources across the country; and commits $200 billion to help poor nations cope with climate change.
This is such a BS liberal talking point with the "Republicans don't care about the poor" crap. It isn't even worth discussing when someone uses it or the racist canard.
 
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