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Who are the top democratic presidential candidates for 2020?

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
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Indeed there is so it's one of the reasons why I am willing to pay more taxes and I'm willing to support my candidates.

I don't know who is a socialist, Bernie says he's a democratic socialist, quite a difference there, maybe AOC? I read all the time that people say Bernie's a socialist and the republicans use the canard, but the things that Sanders wants to offer Americans are not total socialism.


What is a Democratic Socialist?
A democratic socialist is someone who believes that the government should provide a range of basic services to the public for free or at a significant discount, such as health care and education. Unlike socialists, democratic socialists do not believe the government should control all aspects of the aspects, only help provide basic needs and help all of its citizens have an equal chance of success.

We all have beliefs, I believing in giving a helping hand, not a lifestyle, since Clinton was president public assistance is no longer a lifestyle choice. I could put up a pointer or 2 but if you want to read about it it's all around the web.

Do you think the USA is just "giving away money"? I don't. I believe we are doing a poor job of assistance for the underclass. I don't believe everyone is able to catch that fish you speak of. I believe in Keynesian economic policies. There is always a certain percentage of a population, our US for example who are unemployable. If you read below you will see the breakout of why they are not employable, when I was taking econ way back in the day, one of my professors said there would always be about 4% of the unemployable who just cannot work.


I would not be here on my expensive(ish) :) laptop if it were not for the graciousness and kindness of the American taxpayer.

It's great you purchase warm meals for the homeless. I have never done that, I prefer a different way, training, psychiatric help, a type of safe place to live, drug addiction rehab, AA programs (a lot of AA programs one must drive to, I went to tons for my family members) most homeless are either drug addicts, alcoholics or mentally ill.

I think you are mixing apples and oranges, no one thinks that a person is just going to get a handout, we are talking about a % of the population that cannot work. Children are the largest recipient of SNAP.

I'd say the republican way of 'pulling up their bootstraps' has done nothing for the economy or people. But as I said up above, people have and are entitled to their opinions on our country and that is why we vote.

Peace.



I think you are making a pretty extreme statement. I don't count myself a Republican, but I think there is a fine distinction between caring about something, and directly giving money.

For me, opposing broad socialist policies is because I believe in teaching a man to fish vs giving a man a fish. You don't solve the problem of poverty by simply giving free money away. There are other underlying causes of poverty, and giving away money is what I see as a band-aid solution.

I have purchased warm meals for many a homeless on the street. Under no circumstances do I feel comfortable giving them money, because I've heard a lot of people on the streets are there because of drug addiction, and that's what they'd spend cash on. Does this mean I do not care for the homeless, then?

FWIW I do support Warren's plan for Medicare for all, because it taxes only the top 0.1%, which I'm certainly not a part of. Bernie would go into this taxing everybody. Right now I pay $0 for premiums, so anything compared to $0 is infinitely expensive. Warren, however, has promised she will not increase the cost of healthcare for the middle class, which is why I support her.
 

Dancing Fire

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I'm really not in a stage of my life where I care about healthcare much; I care most about climate change, and I want to elect somebody who will do something about that, though preferably not the brusque and heavy-handed way Bernie would surely go about it. A more gradual plan that won't screw people over is in order.
Speaking of climate change where are we gonna find the trillions of dollar needed under the Dem's plan?
 

Dancing Fire

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Do you think the USA is just "giving away money"? I don't. I believe we are doing a poor job of assistance for the underclass.
Move to Ca. where everything is free! especially if you are an illegal immigrant.
 

Tekate

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Just because you say don't believe doesn't mean I'm going to believe you, I believe her. The middle class is already paying more Taxes than the rich, inherited wealth, dodges.

Trumpski gave the rich a PERMANENT tax break, us middle class? ours runs out in 2022 I believe. He's such a schmuck


Don't believe her BS, b/c there aren't enough billionaires for her to tax to cover everyone else in the US., And guess who will be next in line to be taxed? Yes, THE MIDDLE CLASS!
 

Tekate

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He caused the great recession? proof, you go read about how the recession occurred and get back to me on how Obama caused all those people who lost their jobs, layoffs etc and how they needed assistance when they were down..Republicans, no heart.


Trump created millions of new jobs unlike Obama who created millions of new welfare recipients under his Presidency.
 

Tekate

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Why is it unconstitutional? His plan in a way is the same as Trump is doing, but Bernie is helping the lower incomes, vs Trump who has made the rich a lot richer, it's possible that a Sanders presidency will continue to create debt, but Trump's presidency and tax cuts haven't lessened the debt, it's made it worse.. So you help the rich or the poor. A democratic socialist government is not socialism.

It probably won't get far since it is likely unconstitutional. And what happens when it isn't actually enough for all the grand plans?
 

Tekate

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Look that's not an answer. Answer the question. California is not the USA it's a STATE.

Move to Ca. where everything is free! especially if you are an illegal immigrant.
 

Tekate

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Has incurring debt bothered republicans? Tax the rich especially the billionaires.. I think you are wrong.



Really?. She can go empty every billionaire's pocket in the US and still wouldn't come close of covering all them "freebies" that she had promised.

FYI, 1 trillion = 1,000 billion. Jeff Bezos who is the richest man in the world is worth $124 billion. AFAIK there ain't 100 Jeff Bezos on earth for Warren and Sanders to robb.
 

Tekate

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Tekate

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Can you point out all this fraud? I cannot seem to find a real report.


You might be fine with change but I don't trust the government to run such a behemoth program fiscally, securely, or without inevitable fraud that exists in all other programs.
 

Dancing Fire

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He caused the great recession? proof, you go read about how the recession occurred and get back to me on how Obama caused all those people who lost their jobs, layoffs etc and how they needed assistance when they were down..Republicans, no heart.
Of course not!. The US economy will go through a bust and boom cycle once every 8 yrs? no matter which party is in power. The Dems blames Bush for the bust and give credit to Obama for Trump's booming economy policies.
 

redwood66

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Can you point out all this fraud? I cannot seem to find a real report.
Are you saying none exists? Please point this report out. There are plenty of reports for Medicare alone if you just use Google.
 
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voce

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The case for Bloomberg just looks worse and worse to me.

@Dancing Fire I don't know and don't care too much where the money from climate/energy legislation will come from. I'm setting aside money for retirement. When I retire in 30 years, I don't want to live in a desert. I would say the condition of the environment has a significant impact on our quality of life. People like my dad are getting skin allergies from air pollution, which he didn't have to deal with in his younger days, and I don't want to suffer like him when I get older. I think a carbon footprint tax is fair on everybody, as an economic incentive to rethink our consumption habits. I'm very much happy to pay more for a more stable and clean environment in return.

@Tekate I disagree on how much we need to provide people. I don't know where exactly to draw the line, but I think it's a bad thing to provide too much so that people who can provide for themselves continue relying on welfare. I think I'm basing my opinion on how things are in California. The state gives away food stamps and medical care (Medical) to an extent that some people who can move to a higher paying job consciously make the choice to stay at a minimum wage job, and/or work fewer hours, so they can keep qualifying for government benefits. They choose to stay unskilled workers and crowd out the minimum wage job market, leaving higher paying jobs open and continuing to be a burden to the state. This is what I've heard anecdotally from my coworker who has relatives choosing to act this way. I don't think we should make welfare too easy or we'll have some people sponging of the system when they're perfectly capable of working and earning more. There are some people who aren't able to fish for themselves, but what about others that can but choose to not fish because they prefer to get a fish every day for free?
 

Arkteia

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I am very much concerned that we have septuagenarians on the border with octogenarians running. I came from the country where we called it “gerontocracy” and I would like to see younger leaders. I really like Buttigieg but sadly, Midwest may not vote for him (although he is from Indiana, go guess!).

Actually, I like Klobuchar, too.
 

Arkteia

Ideal_Rock
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I wouldn’t trust "Harvard’s first woman of color" as far as I could throw her or her ‘promises’; she IS a liar ... aside from her at-least-three-times falsely-claimed ‘ethnic heritage’, here is yet the latest example in a looooooong line of her ’policy-waffling’ (more of which are beyond-easily google-able): https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/20/politics/warren-super-pac/index.html

But by all means, trust her healthcare pledge ... it would only impact your health/life and your wallet.
She is not a liar...definitely not in her taxes, lol.

As the person who has genetically tested probably 13 or more family members, I can say that even zero Native American would not mean anything, and had she tested in 4 genealogy companies, I bet she’d get 0 in one and 14% in another.

Also - what if it was the family legend that she believed? My dad told me his paternal grandmother was a gypsy, and I believed him. Now I think she was probably Siberian Eurasian, but pre-DNA tests, I used to believe that legend.
Too sad that a Harvard professor has zero chance to become a president,
 

the_mother_thing

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She is not a liar...definitely not in her taxes, lol.

As the person who has genetically tested probably 13 or more family members, I can say that even zero Native American would not mean anything, and had she tested in 4 genealogy companies, I bet she’d get 0 in one and 14% in another.

Also - what if it was the family legend that she believed? My dad told me his paternal grandmother was a gypsy, and I believed him. Now I think she was probably Siberian Eurasian, but pre-DNA tests, I used to believe that legend.
Too sad that a Harvard professor has zero chance to become a president,
By that/her/your logic, we can all probably claim native American preference on college/job applications. Merely ‘believing’ something doesn’t make it fact. And just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.

A Harvard professor has as much opportunity to become President as anyone; but someone - professor or pauper - who is on record as lying and flip-flopping on their own very-public positions (e.g., on her own campaign website) stands a good chance of not being elected President, much less their own party’s nominee as will be Warren’s case apparently.
 

vintageloves

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By that/her/your logic, we can all probably claim native American preference on college/job applications. Merely ‘believing’ something doesn’t make it fact. And just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.
This is where I stand. I get the idea of family lore, but, by her own accounts, she would have believed herself to be about 1/32 Native American. Who writes down their race as "American Indian" on their Bar Association card or presents themselves as a Native American hire at a university based on an unconfirmed rumor of that nature? It's about judgement. Lots of white people believe they are part Cherokee. But almost none present themselves as NA to the professional world. Warren did.

What about the fact that Warren grew up in OK during the Jim Crowe era. Is it not distasteful to anyone else that she grew up with all the advantages of identifying as white and then started to claim NA heritage in the era of affirmative action?

And she absolutely flip flopped. After savaging Buttigieg about wine caves (where he took legal, limited contributions that just so happened to be from rich people) she is now taking money from a SuperPAC.

I would still vote for Warren if she was the nominee, but I won't make excuses for her.
 

smitcompton

Ideal_Rock
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Hi,

I don't think its going to be possible for me to vote for Bernie. I don't want a Revolution in America. We now have a Pres who is eliminating , piece by piece, our democracy. Bernie will take down our capitalist system and just as irresponsibly drive us to bankruptcy. Sorry, but he and Elizabeth Warren are bonkers. Get the votes by promising everything to everyone.

I didn't participate in the thread on forgiveness of school loans as I wanted to think about it more. Education used to be the dominion of the states. When people found education was unequal among the States, the Federal Gov't intervened to set standards of learning. Now Gov't expanded avenues for equal opportunity by creating a loan program that has caused many people to behave irrationally in the hope that taking debt on will bring some future success. Very little thought goes into this. They all want to go away to college at "good schools". States have provided access to education at a reasonable cost. No status in that it seems. Now Bernie and Elizabeth want to forgive the debts owed.
The Free choices that were made have been discarded as too hard now for these debtors to payback and overcome. I have two millionaire friends who put their children thru state schools because they really believed it was the wisest financial choice. One want to be a doctor. They all did well. All529 plans. It is people who must learn to make the best financial decisions for their families.
So, debt forgiveness is a no. Another reason Warren and Bernie do not show they have the ability to forge new leadership without the give-aways.

I will not vote if Bernie is the candidate.

Annette
 

Gussie

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Hi,

I don't think its going to be possible for me to vote for Bernie. I don't want a Revolution in America. We now have a Pres who is eliminating , piece by piece, our democracy. Bernie will take down our capitalist system and just as irresponsibly drive us to bankruptcy. Sorry, but he and Elizabeth Warren are bonkers. Get the votes by promising everything to everyone.

I didn't participate in the thread on forgiveness of school loans as I wanted to think about it more. Education used to be the dominion of the states. When people found education was unequal among the States, the Federal Gov't intervened to set standards of learning. Now Gov't expanded avenues for equal opportunity by creating a loan program that has caused many people to behave irrationally in the hope that taking debt on will bring some future success. Very little thought goes into this. They all want to go away to college at "good schools". States have provided access to education at a reasonable cost. No status in that it seems. Now Bernie and Elizabeth want to forgive the debts owed.
The Free choices that were made have been discarded as too hard now for these debtors to payback and overcome. I have two millionaire friends who put their children thru state schools because they really believed it was the wisest financial choice. One want to be a doctor. They all did well. All529 plans. It is people who must learn to make the best financial decisions for their families.
So, debt forgiveness is a no. Another reason Warren and Bernie do not show they have the ability to forge new leadership without the give-aways.

I will not vote if Bernie is the candidate.

Annette
Does this not make you crazy? I am in the same boat, revolted by Trump and his autocratic tendency yet completely against left wing policies. I fear that you and I are a large portion of the electorate. I am thoroughly disgusted that this might be my choice, of which I will undoubtedly vote 3rd party or write-in someone as a protest vote. I reiterate that I believe Trump wins in a landslide if Bernie is the candidate.
 

voce

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I agree with you @Gussie regarding Trump winning by a landslide if Bernie is the nominee. I was disappointed Pete Buttigieg didn't do better in Nevada. I absolutely detest the loan forgiveness thing, I had almost forgotten about that.

If I imagine who can put Trump in his place on the debate stage, I can only imagine Buttigieg and Warren doing so, for you need a quick wit with comebacks. Out of Bernie and Elizabeth, she is the more humble one and more likely to practice leniency and compromise. I think this flexibility is derided as flip flopping on policy, but to me it's much preferable to have somebody who can be persuaded otherwise than to have someone dogmatic and not budging on issues he's not getting right.

I would love to see Buttigieg on the ticket, but Nevada makes my hopes fade.
 

Gussie

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I am wrong (a lot :lol:) but I think unless Bloomberg jumps out on Super Tuesday, it will be Bernie. Oh well, it won't be the first time I have skipped voting for the 2 major party candidates. I am quite baffled that this is what it's come to.
 

the_mother_thing

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I think this flexibility is derided as flip flopping on policy ...
Preaching and strongly & repeatedly stating on your website that you will not take PAC money to fund your campaign - and beating down other candidates sharing the stage who have/do - then opening your wallet a week later to PAC money to stay afloat (rather than accepting the reality you’re losing and should bow out) is not ‘being flexible’; it’s flip-flopping your position and looking like a foolish hypocrite; and she isn’t even the nominee yet, much less elected - thankfully she’s showing you who she really is now.

If she can’t figure out how to properly plan & fund her campaign, how do you think she can adequately plan to fund healthcare along with all her other ‘freebies’?
 

Tekate

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Hi Voce, people can't depend on welfare for life anymore, not since Clinton revamped the welfare system. The things you say about California do you have pointers on that? I can look stuff up but it's always nice if someone can help! It seems to me that if people can move up then either they can't make enough to still feed their family or maybe there is another reason? I read today in the NYTimes that millenials feel they have been robbed of the ability to move up.. not that this anything to do with public assistance, but the young have a different opinion at times.

As I said, I think we should give a helping hand to those in need. People in coal country will have to leave their area and go to where there are jobs, sometimes that is difficult for people to do, people did it in the Great Depression though. I'm all for a carbon tax btw.


The case for Bloomberg just looks worse and worse to me.

@Dancing Fire I don't know and don't care too much where the money from climate/energy legislation will come from. I'm setting aside money for retirement. When I retire in 30 years, I don't want to live in a desert. I would say the condition of the environment has a significant impact on our quality of life. People like my dad are getting skin allergies from air pollution, which he didn't have to deal with in his younger days, and I don't want to suffer like him when I get older. I think a carbon footprint tax is fair on everybody, as an economic incentive to rethink our consumption habits. I'm very much happy to pay more for a more stable and clean environment in return.

@Tekate I disagree on how much we need to provide people. I don't know where exactly to draw the line, but I think it's a bad thing to provide too much so that people who can provide for themselves continue relying on welfare. I think I'm basing my opinion on how things are in California. The state gives away food stamps and medical care (Medical) to an extent that some people who can move to a higher paying job consciously make the choice to stay at a minimum wage job, and/or work fewer hours, so they can keep qualifying for government benefits. They choose to stay unskilled workers and crowd out the minimum wage job market, leaving higher paying jobs open and continuing to be a burden to the state. This is what I've heard anecdotally from my coworker who has relatives choosing to act this way. I don't think we should make welfare too easy or we'll have some people sponging of the system when they're perfectly capable of working and earning more. There are some people who aren't able to fish for themselves, but what about others that can but choose to not fish because they prefer to get a fish every day for free?
 

Tekate

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Gussie, if you read this you will know why there is such support or Bernie with millenials, if he get's the nomination I hope enough young people will come out and vote. My son said if anyone else get's the nomination he will not vote. It's tough, it's really generational, I guess back in the 60s and 70s it was generational too.




I am wrong (a lot :lol:) but I think unless Bloomberg jumps out on Super Tuesday, it will be Bernie. Oh well, it won't be the first time I have skipped voting for the 2 major party candidates. I am quite baffled that this is what it's come to.
 

Gussie

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@Tekate, I do understand some of the support for Bernie but emphatically disagree. Youth is often more liberal in their views. I once was, lol, though never so far left as Bernie. :wall:


The problem is they don't vote. As an example, kids in college aren't usually registered to vote where they attend school so it takes more effort to vote absentee. I saw this so often when I was in college and even grad school. They will campaign, express strong opinions, etc. but not vote! I suspect this will be the youth turnout as usual.
 

mom2dolls

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I think Bernie will be the nominee and could not be more upset about it. I see the same thing happening that happened when Trump was running in 2016. No one is taking it seriously, assuming he won't get the nod and next thing you know, he is president.

Bernie has become a movement. When you promise free college and free healthcare, young college kids are showing up in the tens of thousands. The problem is, these same voters are not researching the empty promises. It is not possible! Nothing he is promising is possible or practical.

I am so sad to say, this may be the first time I have not voted in an election. I sure as hell am not voting for Cheeto.

The fact that Joe may be the first candidate out of this race, screams the state of our nation.

I would vote for Mayor Pete!! I like him a lot. I am not sure the nation would vote him in.
 

voce

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Hi Voce, people can't depend on welfare for life anymore, not since Clinton revamped the welfare system. The things you say about California do you have pointers on that? I can look stuff up but it's always nice if someone can help! It seems to me that if people can move up then either they can't make enough to still feed their family or maybe there is another reason? I read today in the NYTimes that millenials feel they have been robbed of the ability to move up.. not that this anything to do with public assistance, but the young have a different opinion at times.

As I said, I think we should give a helping hand to those in need. People in coal country will have to leave their area and go to where there are jobs, sometimes that is difficult for people to do, people did it in the Great Depression though. I'm all for a carbon tax btw.
Tekate, I agree with you about a carbon tax. I don't know that much about the welfare system myself. I'm a first generation Asian immigrant, and my parents never even considered welfare a possibility even when they started with a meager salary of $500 a month to feed a family of three.

I had an online friend who had a metabolic disorder compounded with depression (met him through playing World of Warcraft) living in Washington state collecting disability for life as he told me. According to my co-worker who went on Medi-Cal to pay for natal care for childbirth in her younger years, "they" were foisting stuff on her asking if she want this, that, food stamps, etc when she had applied for Medi-Cal. She refused everything else because she only needed the medical coverage and didn't need everything else. She also says that Medi-Cal must be paying higher than private insurance, because a number of doctors where she lives ONLY accept Medi-Cal patients, no private insurance. This coworker's cousins are working minimum wage jobs because they want to be getting welfare for life instead of working more hours at a higher paying job that was completely available to them had they wanted it. I think this is an issue where state welfare programs vary, and individuals vary insofar as how far they are willing to go to game the system without developing the self respect to pull themselves up by the bootstrap, or however the saying should go.

Edit: regarding millennials, I think that the millennials who are complaining are the ones that haven't really kept up with the times. I interviewed some kids for my alma mater, and one Latino kid told me that his dad wanted him to quit school to work in the fields before he graduated high school. The fact of the matter, as I see it, is that the world used to be that you could do hard physical labor and improve your lot in life without needing much education. I think these days it's definitely possible to rise in wealth and status, but only for those people that get the education. The world now is one where automation is ridding the demand for unskilled workers, and you need education to rise above subsistence living, unless you have a great talent of some other kind (music, acting). A lot of millennials, my brother included, do not like school. But unless you give yourself a rigorous education and go for the demanding, high paying jobs, how do you expect to get ahead in a world where robots are replacing workers? This is part of the reason why I wanted to support Andrew Yang, but he has dropped out of the race.
 
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Tekate

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@voce my brother is bipolar and schizophrenic and has been receiving SSI disability for 30 years, it never goes up, it's only 1.5k a month but believe me he can't work. I don't know anything about california state disability. My brother has not worked since he was 26, he's almost 61, my brother gets military welfare, my brother was in the navy for 4 years, he was deployed to Hawaii and spent most of his navy time in and out of rehab for coke and craziness, he was honorably discharged and did squat, nada, nothing from then on but maybe got crazier, our family has trauma growing up.. When my father was old and close to dying he said: "Any money your brother get's, donate it to the State of California and Federal government for supporting XY" so I get that there are people we milk the system, there are people who abuse the system, altho as the years flew by my brother got crazier. He has Section 8 housing, VA healthcare, he's got it good compared to many people who legitimately deserve assistance.

All the things you say and what I just wrote are anecdotal information.

most people don't stay on public assistance very long: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/public-benefits-safety-net_n_7470060

Getting federal disability: https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/disability/

most people get denied that's why there are lawyers on TV advertising how they can help you get disability.

Many people are unable to be educated for these 'new' jobs.

What is the typical millenial? How do I expect people to go through rigorous education? not all can and those who can't need help. Read this Pew Report then if you have never read about Pew search it out.. There's be trouble coming for all jobs.


The world is changing for all jobs.

From Pew snip:

Machines are eating humans’ jobs talents. And it’s not just about jobs that are repetitive and low-skill. Automation, robotics, algorithms and artificial intelligence (AI) in recent times have shown they can do equal or sometimes even better work than humans who are dermatologists, insurance claims adjusters, lawyers, seismic testers in oil fields, sports journalists and financial reporters, crew members on guided-missile destroyers, hiring managers, psychological testers, retail salespeople, and border patrol agents. Moreover, there is growing anxiety that technology developments on the near horizon will crush the jobs of the millions who drive cars and trucks, analyze medical tests and data, perform middle management chores, dispense medicine, trade stocks and evaluate markets, fight on battlefields, perform government functions, and even replace those who program software – that is, the creators of algorithms
 
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