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Who are the top democratic presidential candidates for 2020?

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
6,394
We are talking about 'rich' as income. Not esoteric rich. I'm not wrong. Did you read the pointers?

So you are saying your kids are going to inherit a lot of money?

NO most rich people don't have ideas and make things happen. Most people inherit money ala the Trumps, the Hiltons, and their ilk.


Bill Gates was rich before he made his billions, the Facebook kid was rich (forgot his name)... Michael Dell was wealthy. Without THOSE people behind them (momsy and dadsy) putting them into Ivy League or Ivy State schools I doubt very much they would be billionaires today.

Money makes money. Going to Harvard gives your kid an edge in life..

So it's great you are saving money for your kids and perhaps you are one of the top 5%ers in which case your kids know it and they are privileged which is great, but not what most American youth have today.




wrong. My kids will get rich because my husband and I have rolled up our sleeves and work hard so that our accumulated wealth can propel the next generation. But, it did begin with hard work and sacrifice. Most wealthy people have ideas and make things happen. It’s not all under Trump. We did very well under President Clinton.
 

vintageloves

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
390
I’m not sure I have ever voted for a Republican. I have certainly never voted for a Republican president.

I don’t have the words to describe how much I hate Bernie. I won’t vote for him and neither will a single Democrat I know. We’ll all stay home. In PA.

Bernie wants to ban fracking by 2025. I heat my home with natural gas. You think I want to freeze to death to make a point to the corporate execs in the fossil fuel industry? NG is much cleaner than coal, so it’s not about climate change. It’s anti-science bullhockey.

Bernie can’t tell me the details of this health insurance plan he’s going to force us all on. Can I see a specialist directly, or are GPs going to be used as gate keepers? How much will my taxes go up? How many doctors will retire early because of his plan to cut their salaries by 40%? What is the plan to accomidate the increase in care? Will there be rationing? Bernie doesn’t know. No one knows.

Bernie is going to forgive 1.6T in student debt except his plan to pay for it does not raise 1.6T.

Bernie is going to ban all gas cars by 2030. Bernie going to buy me two new cars? No, that’s just another thing we’ll all be on the hook for.

Bernie is going to ban all fossil fuels by 2030. We don’t have the capacity to run the grid on renewables by then. Bernie is against nuclear, too, and wants to shut down all existing plants. We’ll all be partying like it’s Pyongyang.

People in the fossil fuel industry, health insurance industry, and defense industry are going to lose their jobs. That’s millions of people. That’s me. That will have serious consequences.

Bernie’s supporters are hateful and vile and I have received more death threats than I care to count. I don’t really want to enable these people, sorry.

Bernie’s plan to have “democratically controlled” corporations is not realistic for how businesses function. And I don’t know about you, but I don’t want my place of work controlled by some of the idiots I work with.

Oh, the young people are just so excited! Well young people were excited about McGovern and we can see how that turned out. Also, I’m 38. Bernie starts struggling with voters when they hit about 30. You can’t win with JUST young people.

It’s not 2016 anymore. Hillary being a bad candidate doesn’t make Bernie a good one. If you look at the exit polling from NH and IA, he is not pulling in new voters, he is not increasing the youth turn out, he is not winning with the white working class, he is not winning over independents like he used to, and the Obama-to-Trump counties are going to Buttigieg instead. His movement is exclusively young people.

This isn’t going to work. He’s going to lose in a landslide.
 

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
6,394
Hillary won the vote, she lost the electoral college more people voted for HER. Trump comes off as an elitist, he's horrible, he calls people horrible names, he's a bully, he's a jerk and a malignant narcisist, he lost, more people wanted Clinton.

The day of the moderate voter is over in America. We had people who wanted radical change and they voted for Trumpski, they now love that Trump is a big mouth, that Trump is a bully, they wear their hats, they scream about how great he is (as he destroys the country mind you).

Trump is smug, people cannot stand him, he's very bitter and a total elitist, he of the "perfect phone call".. he's so smug it makes me sick.

Will he be voted out? I doubt it, seems most Americans want a smug, bitter, elitist who rips them off as president.



I think that it's very simple why Hillary lost. And it's not because she was a centrist. People cannot stand her. She is smug and bitter and comes off as an elitist. In 2016, I believe people in swing states were able to overlook Trump's flaws because of the alternative. The rust belt is full of moderate voters and that's where the election will be decided.
 

Gussie

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 20, 2017
Messages
2,611
I’m not sure I have ever voted for a Republican. I have certainly never voted for a Republican president.

I don’t have the words to describe how much I hate Bernie. I won’t vote for him and neither will a single Democrat I know. We’ll all stay home. In PA.

Bernie wants to ban fracking by 2025. I heat my home with natural gas. You think I want to freeze to death to make a point to the corporate execs in the fossil fuel industry? NG is much cleaner than coal, so it’s not about climate change. It’s anti-science bullhockey.

Bernie can’t tell me the details of this health insurance plan he’s going to force us all on. Can I see a specialist directly, or are GPs going to be used as gate keepers? How much will my taxes go up? How many doctors will retire early because of his plan to cut their salaries by 40%? What is the plan to accomidate the increase in care? Will there be rationing? Bernie doesn’t know. No one knows.

Bernie is going to forgive 1.6T in student debt except his plan to pay for it does not raise 1.6T.

Bernie is going to ban all gas cars by 2030. Bernie going to buy me two new cars? No, that’s just another thing we’ll all be on the hook for.

Bernie is going to ban all fossil fuels by 2030. We don’t have the capacity to run the grid on renewables by then. Bernie is against nuclear, too, and wants to shut down all existing plants. We’ll all be partying like it’s Pyongyang.

People in the fossil fuel industry, health insurance industry, and defense industry are going to lose their jobs. That’s millions of people. That’s me. That will have serious consequences.

Bernie’s supporters are hateful and vile and I have received more death threats than I care to count. I don’t really want to enable these people, sorry.

Bernie’s plan to have “democratically controlled” corporations is not realistic for how businesses function. And I don’t know about you, but I don’t want my place of work controlled by some of the idiots I work with.

Oh, the young people are just so excited! Well young people were excited about McGovern and we can see how that turned out. Also, I’m 38. Bernie starts struggling with voters when they hit about 30. You can’t win with JUST young people.

It’s not 2016 anymore. Hillary being a bad candidate doesn’t make Bernie a good one. If you look at the exit polling from NH and IA, he is not pulling in new voters, he is not increasing the youth turn out, he is not winning with the white working class, he is not winning over independents like he used to, and the Obama-to-Trump counties are going to Buttigieg instead. His movement is exclusively young people.

This isn’t going to work. He’s going to lose in a landslide.
This.

And the fact that young people don't vote. Time and again this has been true.
 

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
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May 11, 2013
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6,394
Fossil fuels are on their way out, that is a fact. Take me, I'm seriously going to try and not have any gas in my new home, electric cooktop, oven, reversible heat pumps., now I live in a southern state so it doesn't get that cold usually.

Fracking is a culprit to earthquakes, eventually we will have to stop doing fracking.

I'm on medicare so I can tell you all about health insurance, it will be cheaper for you I'll bet. What do you want to know? There has been no rationing of medicine on Medicare since I've been on it, going on 3 years. We HAVE to do something about healthcare, more and more Americans are without healthcare because of cost, How many businesses require their employees to pay more and more for less and less coverage. My son has great health insurance with the state of Texas but he still had to pay 7K for the birth of his daughter, now his insurance DID ration pain relief, my DIL had an epidural and they wouldn't pay for all of it.. I had an epidural and had to pay zilch in 91. We are already being rationed.

Natural gas affects the environment, it's clearly true. It burns cleaner than coal but NG has its own problems..

Don't vote for Bernie, that is your choice, I respect that. But Trump is worse. I just don't see anymore a middle ground. My mom always said to fight fire with fire and it has come down that just that. We need a loud mouth like Trumpski, as Trump is a Laffer curve moron Bernie is a democratic socialist, and many of his plans would never pass Congress on either side of the House.

I'd like to see the Thug in Charge removed and if Bernie is the candidate - he has my vote. I would rather see Bloomberg but my vote is anyone but Trump.






I’m not sure I have ever voted for a Republican. I have certainly never voted for a Republican president.

I don’t have the words to describe how much I hate Bernie. I won’t vote for him and neither will a single Democrat I know. We’ll all stay home. In PA.

Bernie wants to ban fracking by 2025. I heat my home with natural gas. You think I want to freeze to death to make a point to the corporate execs in the fossil fuel industry? NG is much cleaner than coal, so it’s not about climate change. It’s anti-science bullhockey.

Bernie can’t tell me the details of this health insurance plan he’s going to force us all on. Can I see a specialist directly, or are GPs going to be used as gate keepers? How much will my taxes go up? How many doctors will retire early because of his plan to cut their salaries by 40%? What is the plan to accomidate the increase in care? Will there be rationing? Bernie doesn’t know. No one knows.

Bernie is going to forgive 1.6T in student debt except his plan to pay for it does not raise 1.6T.

Bernie is going to ban all gas cars by 2030. Bernie going to buy me two new cars? No, that’s just another thing we’ll all be on the hook for.

Bernie is going to ban all fossil fuels by 2030. We don’t have the capacity to run the grid on renewables by then. Bernie is against nuclear, too, and wants to shut down all existing plants. We’ll all be partying like it’s Pyongyang.

People in the fossil fuel industry, health insurance industry, and defense industry are going to lose their jobs. That’s millions of people. That’s me. That will have serious consequences.

Bernie’s supporters are hateful and vile and I have received more death threats than I care to count. I don’t really want to enable these people, sorry.

Bernie’s plan to have “democratically controlled” corporations is not realistic for how businesses function. And I don’t know about you, but I don’t want my place of work controlled by some of the idiots I work with.

Oh, the young people are just so excited! Well young people were excited about McGovern and we can see how that turned out. Also, I’m 38. Bernie starts struggling with voters when they hit about 30. You can’t win with JUST young people.

It’s not 2016 anymore. Hillary being a bad candidate doesn’t make Bernie a good one. If you look at the exit polling from NH and IA, he is not pulling in new voters, he is not increasing the youth turn out, he is not winning with the white working class, he is not winning over independents like he used to, and the Obama-to-Trump counties are going to Buttigieg instead. His movement is exclusively young people.

This isn’t going to work. He’s going to lose in a landslide.
 

Gussie

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
2,611
@Tekate I get that Hillary won the popular vote. However, he (whom I detest) won the states that determine the winner. The next president will be elected by the same few states. Imo, those states will not elect a self described socialist.
 
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Tekate

Ideal_Rock
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6,394
She won. Let's face it. She won the majority of 2.8 million people. That is more people who voted for her but the electoral college gave Trumpski the win, my mom would call that a hollow victory.
 

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
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Probably true, too early to tell.
 

Maria D

Brilliant_Rock
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1,780
@vintageloves, so don't hold back - what do you think of Bernie? :P2

He's not exactly my first choice either, more like fourth. It's actually refreshing to read your reasons for disliking him as a candidate as they are all about policy, nothing personal. It drove me nutty in 2016 when people (that I know in real life) would express vicious hatred for Clinton but never be able to articulate what about her policies they didn't care for!

I'm curious about the death threats though...why are Bernie supporters harassing you like that?
 

vintageloves

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
390
Fossil fuels are on their way out, that is a fact. Take me, I'm seriously going to try and not have any gas in my new home, electric cooktop, oven, reversible heat pumps., now I live in a southern state so it doesn't get that cold usually.

Fracking is a culprit to earthquakes, eventually we will have to stop doing fracking.

I'm on medicare so I can tell you all about health insurance, it will be cheaper for you I'll bet. What do you want to know? There has been no rationing of medicine on Medicare since I've been on it, going on 3 years. We HAVE to do something about healthcare, more and more Americans are without healthcare because of cost, How many businesses require their employees to pay more and more for less and less coverage. My son has great health insurance with the state of Texas but he still had to pay 7K for the birth of his daughter, now his insurance DID ration pain relief, my DIL had an epidural and they wouldn't pay for all of it.. I had an epidural and had to pay zilch in 91. We are already being rationed.

Natural gas affects the environment, it's clearly true. It burns cleaner than coal but NG has its own problems..

Don't vote for Bernie, that is your choice, I respect that. But Trump is worse. I just don't see anymore a middle ground. My mom always said to fight fire with fire and it has come down that just that. We need a loud mouth like Trumpski, as Trump is a Laffer curve moron Bernie is a democratic socialist, and many of his plans would never pass Congress on either side of the House.

I'd like to see the Thug in Charge removed and if Bernie is the candidate - he has my vote. I would rather see Bloomberg but my vote is anyone but Trump.
Where I live it is cold, although not as cold as some other crucial states like say, OH, MI, WI, MN— other places where lots of homes run on natural gas.

In fact, 66M homes use natural gas heat. That’s half of all homes. I’m going to let you all in on a little secret: we don’t have the money to convert our homes! It costs upwards of 20K to convert a house. And goodness help the people with two-zone homes (like mine). It really doesn’t matter how bad NG is (and it’s not as bad as we’re led to believe; a lot of that water-on-fire stuff is propaganda). People will not vote for this. The best system would be a phase-out. Make all dryers electric by 2025, ect. Trickle the costs and offer a trade in system. Don’t just cut it off by some arbitrary date. But Bernie won‘t listen to that kind of stuff. That’s moderation. That’s “going to get us killed.” No, we need big, bold policies that are sure to alienate and scare as many people as possible.

Medicare for All has no similarities to the current Medicare system. It’s an untested future. One of the reason that you, as a Medicare patient, can see a doctor is because your doctor is billing more for his/her private insurance patient. Medicare for All removes this option. All doctors, nurses, and support staff are going to have to take a 40% pay cut. We don’t know the impact of that. You might have a harder time seeing a doctor in the future. Sure, it’ll be free, but not necessarily ideal.

Trump is terrible. But one of the reasons I don’t like Trump is his wannabe autocrat tendencies. Well guess who wrote up dozens of executive orders before a single vote was cast in Iowa? Bernie. Who blames the media for his coverage? Bernie. Who blames all the problems of this country on a certain group of people? Bernie. Who has people at his rallies pumping up the crowds by shouting epithets at political opponents? Bernie.

He’s not all that much different from Trump and he’d make my life considerably worse. It’s not a close call.
 

vintageloves

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
390
I'm curious about the death threats though...why are Bernie supporters harassing you like that?
It’s very common with Bernie supporters online to harass and doxx people who won’t “bend the knee.” There have been articles written about this. Today, the Culinary Worker’s Union in Las Vegas revealed that they had received a ton of harassment over their decision to not support Bernie, including the home addresses listed online of some of their members.

I have been told I’m a murderer because I don’t support M4A, a selfish [email protected] and a rich b!tch when they find out I’m a woman, that I should be purged from the party, and that they hope I cry when Bernie is made the nominee. I’m politically active and on Reddit. It’s a miracle I haven’t been doxxed yet.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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31,068
Fossil fuels are on their way out, that is a fact. Take me, I'm seriously going to try and not have any gas in my new home, electric cooktop, oven, reversible heat pumps., now I live in a southern state so it doesn't get that cold usually.

Fracking is a culprit to earthquakes, eventually we will have to stop doing fracking.
Really ? Is Sanders flying around in a battery airplane?
 

Queenie60

Ideal_Rock
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Is that not exactly what she said?

"Studies all show that the rich grow richer because they have inherited wealth"

Did you really miss that?
So tell me, if you made a lot of money via hard work, would you pass it on to your children? It’s obvious to me that you just don’t understand this concept.
 

voce

Ideal_Rock
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May 13, 2018
Messages
2,898
Fossil fuels are on their way out, that is a fact. Take me, I'm seriously going to try and not have any gas in my new home, electric cooktop, oven, reversible heat pumps., now I live in a southern state so it doesn't get that cold usually.

Fracking is a culprit to earthquakes, eventually we will have to stop doing fracking.

I'm on medicare so I can tell you all about health insurance, it will be cheaper for you I'll bet. What do you want to know? There has been no rationing of medicine on Medicare since I've been on it, going on 3 years. We HAVE to do something about healthcare, more and more Americans are without healthcare because of cost, How many businesses require their employees to pay more and more for less and less coverage. My son has great health insurance with the state of Texas but he still had to pay 7K for the birth of his daughter, now his insurance DID ration pain relief, my DIL had an epidural and they wouldn't pay for all of it.. I had an epidural and had to pay zilch in 91. We are already being rationed.

Natural gas affects the environment, it's clearly true. It burns cleaner than coal but NG has its own problems..

Don't vote for Bernie, that is your choice, I respect that. But Trump is worse. I just don't see anymore a middle ground. My mom always said to fight fire with fire and it has come down that just that. We need a loud mouth like Trumpski, as Trump is a Laffer curve moron Bernie is a democratic socialist, and many of his plans would never pass Congress on either side of the House.

I'd like to see the Thug in Charge removed and if Bernie is the candidate - he has my vote. I would rather see Bloomberg but my vote is anyone but Trump.
I don't think Bloomberg is electable St this point in time, because of what he said on tapes.
 

jaaron

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
556
Don't vote for Bernie, that is your choice, I respect that. But Trump is worse. I just don't see anymore a middle ground. My mom always said to fight fire with fire and it has come down that just that. We need a loud mouth like Trumpski, as Trump is a Laffer curve moron Bernie is a democratic socialist, and many of his plans would never pass Congress on either side of the House.

I'd like to see the Thug in Charge removed and if Bernie is the candidate - he has my vote. I would rather see Bloomberg but my vote is anyone but Trump.
I guess I'd stay home if Hitler was the democratic nominee, but there aren't many others that would keep me from turning out to try to unseat Trump. Bernie's not my favourite, partly because I don't think his personality and his tendency toward protectionism are going to help the US start the crucial task of mend the necessary fences internationally.

I used to agree with you, Tekate, on the fight fire with fire theory, but the last election here in the UK, where Corbyn (a very Bernie-like candidate in a lot of ways) went down in flames, has really made me rethink that.

So if it's not young voters, what do people think accounts for the Dems 2018 success? Heard a very interesting discussion the other day on how many younger people are moving out of metropolitan ares to the sunbelt, which accounts for some of the purpling of traditionally red states.
 

smitcompton

Ideal_Rock
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Hi,

Thanks Vintageloves. Lately, I have been thinking that Bernie may also be an autocrat. He's dogmatic and pushy. So I took a step back and wondered if he would have the same tendencies that Trump displays. Bernie shows a lot of anger and gives me the feeling that whatever he has to do to get the nomination he will do. Sort of like steamrolling--just like Trump. Can't really say if I am reading him correctly, but I'll keep watching. We don't want to exchange one bully for another.

Annette
 

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
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No kidding! it's a secret that people don't have 20K to convert a home? well shucks, thanks!

I've lived in cold states, I live in a hot state. In the cold state my major expense was bottled gas, in the hot state it was electricity for a/c.

No one said 'hey tomorrow we are going to require you all to convert - at 20K - to solar" or electricity, hey I forgot to mention I had an all electric apartment way back in the day and in a cold state no less, I guess I've had them all, had oil growing up and in my first house in a cold state. I've experienced them all except a heat pump and my parents had a 3 in FL over the years.

Efficiency and environment impact are the two most important items to reduce to eliminate fossil fuels in my book. There is no sense to force people into something that is so expensive it is not worth it to try.

I remember when seat-belts first came out, Lordy Lordy you would have thought that chicken little was screaming.. but eventually we all came to believe seat belts are a good thing.

We need renewable, inexpensive, clean, energy for the future of our kids, grands etc. I not solar energy then something else. I'm going to be an all electric car this year at some point so I will have a better idea of the cost of running a fossil free fuel car :) hoping I like it.

Bernie is a blowhard, a bigmouth, he's a social democrat not a socialist and I doubt that he could get his wishful thinking on all items passed. Sometimes I think Bernie is a laughable at the Laffer Curve Lovers we have (which hasn't work ergo our wonderful and growing debt) (but the heaven's know that the uber rich got a hella richer under the Laffer lovers, I think Laffer is an idiot and his followers are dumbsters ((nothing to do with trumpsters as dumbsters are usually very well educated)) who wish that cutting taxes will raise revenue but over and over again it has shown that people reinvest! stocks etc, but people vote these idiots in).

I view our (as in our country) problem mainly as radical in that people are sick of the middle of the road, sick of status quo, sick of bad news..young people want Bernie because he promises a (almost) utopian life.. no debt for you, free college, great jobs, a house etc.. I find that to be unreal but then we've never tried it, now we have tried this Dystopian Laffer Lovers and the only utopian life young people see are the really rich. I wonder what the pundits will write about this era in 200 years.. Hopefully Trump will not define us.

So I am in favor of seguing off of fossil fuel, to a better method of renewable energy, I think that is solar and electric cars, but I could be wrong. Actually there are many 'brains' who still like nuclear energy best.




Where I live it is cold, although not as cold as some other crucial states like say, OH, MI, WI, MN— other places where lots of homes run on natural gas.

In fact, 66M homes use natural gas heat. That’s half of all homes. I’m going to let you all in on a little secret: we don’t have the money to convert our homes! It costs upwards of 20K to convert a house. And goodness help the people with two-zone homes (like mine). It really doesn’t matter how bad NG is (and it’s not as bad as we’re led to believe; a lot of that water-on-fire stuff is propaganda). People will not vote for this. The best system would be a phase-out. Make all dryers electric by 2025, ect. Trickle the costs and offer a trade in system. Don’t just cut it off by some arbitrary date. But Bernie won‘t listen to that kind of stuff. That’s moderation. That’s “going to get us killed.” No, we need big, bold policies that are sure to alienate and scare as many people as possible.

Medicare for All has no similarities to the current Medicare system. It’s an untested future. One of the reason that you, as a Medicare patient, can see a doctor is because your doctor is billing more for his/her private insurance patient. Medicare for All removes this option. All doctors, nurses, and support staff are going to have to take a 40% pay cut. We don’t know the impact of that. You might have a harder time seeing a doctor in the future. Sure, it’ll be free, but not necessarily ideal.

Trump is terrible. But one of the reasons I don’t like Trump is his wannabe autocrat tendencies. Well guess who wrote up dozens of executive orders before a single vote was cast in Iowa? Bernie. Who blames the media for his coverage? Bernie. Who blames all the problems of this country on a certain group of people? Bernie. Who has people at his rallies pumping up the crowds by shouting epithets at political opponents? Bernie.

He’s not all that much different from Trump and he’d make my life considerably worse. It’s not a close call.
 

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
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He is autocratic it seems at times, a pushy NYer. He is dogmatic, but I find that most politicians are frankly. Bernie is just a verbal, loud, extrovert.. they hated Clinton because she was 'arrogant' 'snotty' etc. Just so you know that there are probably many NYers who know a few guys like Bernie.

You know what stops me on Bernie, I will vote for him (IF he get's the nomination that is) because Ima anyone but Trump and I don't believe in tossing my vote to someone else who may go down in a pyrrhic victory but hey I didn't vote for Bernie and now we have cheetoh, tan man again destroying our laws. Bernie is not vindictive that I have read, I would agree he is similar to Trumpski in steamrolling - I believe they are both NYers. I've never read that Bernie is a Bully but it's early, 3 years ago I didn't pay attention to him.

so back to what bothers me about Bernie, He is NOT a democrat, he always is an independent (but caucuses with the dems).. then every 4 years he re registers as a democrat so he can try to be prez again, this irks the hell out of me. I have been a registered democrat since I was 18 - 49 years.. and have voted only once republican and boy that came back to bite me, I have stood for my party, I have supported financially my party and what as the Bern done? nothing because if he were a democrat he'd stay one, it would be interesting if he ran as an independent. Lack of party support bothers me, to me this is 2 faced, this is using my party for his own personal gain, that makes him untrustworthy in my book, so all the bravado and big mouth stuff, I grew up with those kind of people, but a 'user I hated those peeps (and I don't mean drug users).

Trump will most probably win if he's not impeached again :) and thrown out. But Bern will get my vote but he wouldn't get a second (if he and I are both here :) ) if he turns out to be the schmuck that he can come across being, and hurts our country.



Hi,

Thanks Vintageloves. Lately, I have been thinking that Bernie may also be an autocrat. He's dogmatic and pushy. So I took a step back and wondered if he would have the same tendencies that Trump displays. Bernie shows a lot of anger and gives me the feeling that whatever he has to do to get the nomination he will do. Sort of like steamrolling--just like Trump. Can't really say if I am reading him correctly, but I'll keep watching. We don't want to exchange one bully for another.

Annette
 

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
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Reddit is a crazy a$$ed place, I know many (according to my sons) millenials get their info there, Reddit is a bubble world.

People are going to dox that is the way of the world now, as my mom would say "pee or get off the pot" (old Irish saying I think since she was old and irish) If you have a young army (as they are sometimes called) you are gonna get doxxing, outing, harassing etc.. You enter the world of Reddit and it's worse. Don't they have a pro trump deep state thread(s) on there? I think the place is riddled with Russians posing as young people. It reminds me of a crappy Craig's list, but Ima not young.

Are you discussing with a bunch of toadstools on Reddit? people are dying in America for lack of healthcare but people are also dying on medicare because they can't afford the copays, they are old and suspicious. I can see anyone worrying about their taxes and not being in favor of M4A but a killer etc.. naw. My son would say you are selfish because you are rich, he who makes good money btw, was hit up with a 7K bill after the birth of his daughter that was unexpected, now back in my day EVEN surprises were covered under my medical care at IBM. I am in favor of CHANGE in the health care of our country, someone is getting richer and richer but it isn't me and most probably it isn't you. So change needs to happen, maybe not medicare 4 all, but something fairer and will allow people making low incomes the same chance at healthcare and life as you and I, the rich folks :)



It’s very common with Bernie supporters online to harass and doxx people who won’t “bend the knee.” There have been articles written about this. Today, the Culinary Worker’s Union in Las Vegas revealed that they had received a ton of harassment over their decision to not support Bernie, including the home addresses listed online of some of their members.

I have been told I’m a murderer because I don’t support M4A, a selfish [email protected] and a rich b!tch when they find out I’m a woman, that I should be purged from the party, and that they hope I cry when Bernie is made the nominee. I’m politically active and on Reddit. It’s a miracle I haven’t been doxxed yet.
 

vintageloves

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
390
My son would say you are selfish because you are rich
Well, I’m not rich. I’m not even CLOSE to being the 1%. I’m just assumed to be rich by Bernie supporters when they find out I don’t support him. Are you really ok with your son treating people like that? Does a 7K childbirth bill just override all requirements for decency?

I explained to you very clearly that people with NG (and oil and propane) will have to spend tens of thousands of dollars to retrofit our homes (and, yes, it’s exactly what Bernie would be requiring us to do) and you just handwaved it away. It’s a cost people cannot afford, and you made it pretty crystal clear you don’t care. I’m not sure what else to say.

If you have a young army (as they are sometimes called) you are gonna get doxxing, outing, harassing etc.
No. This is not normal behavior and you should not be excusing this.
 

jaaron

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Messages
556
I explained to you very clearly that people with NG (and oil and propane) will have to spend tens of thousands of dollars to retrofit our homes (and, yes, it’s exactly what Bernie would be requiring us to do) and you just handwaved it away. It’s a cost people cannot afford, and you made it pretty crystal clear you don’t care. I’m not sure what else to say.
As I've said, I'm not a huge Bernie fan. And one of the reasons is that a lot of what he says is complete fantasy. When it comes down to transitioning it from Bernie's mind and mouth to policy, well, good luck. America is fundamentally a capitalist country, which is one of the reasons it's been so easy for Trump to turn it into a kleptocracy in the making. His supporters seem to be made up of both people who have plundered the system to their benefit and those who, despite having been completely left behind by unfettered capitalism, can't shake the lure of it.

It's completely unrealistic to believe, regardless of whatever Bernie has said or might say, that there would be any conceivable way of forcing people to retrofit their houses. It's an utter impossibility. What are they going to do? Build prisons and fill them with people not retrofitting? Plus, state representatives, if nothing else, are usually pretty good at figuring out what they need to do to save their own asses with their constituents. Common sense says that in the end, it would boil down to requirements for new construction and a long phase out for already existing infrastructure. But the positives for future generations and new technology and jobs might be enormous. We certainly cannot afford to do nothing about our fossil fuel dependence.

We are in the 1% and have the benefit of absolute gold-plated health insurance. Do I want to pay more in taxes? Do I want my health insurance to change? Of course not. Particularly when the superrich figure out how to dodge taxes, getting richer and richer, while we dutifully pay ours. But I also understand that the old order--work hard, do well--doesn't necessarily exist for a very large percentage of the population. My husband and I have certainly worked hard for what we have. But we also had the advantages that allowed that to translate into success--stable middle class families who loved and supported us and had the luxury to think in terms of careers rather than jobs. There have been many late nights, plenty of time away from home and family, weekends where one of us had a pile of work, dinner interrupted by urgent phone calls, things one of us has missed due to work. But it has been rewarding work in many ways, and do I think we work harder than someone juggling three minimum wage jobs to stay afloat? A nurse working a night shift and a second job? Probably not.

So I accept that the world order we grew up taking for granted has to change. We have become a country where pharmaceutical companies can raise prices unchecked, while people die for lack of insulin. I can't accept that the America I know could deny so many people the basics, never mind the chance to achieve more. And I don't believe reopening coal mines is any way to do that--we have to allow people a chance to look ahead rather than behind. But I accept that in the short term this is probably going to involve some personal pain for the greater good. If people want to call that socialism, I don't think they're really getting it.

And Vintageloves, I feel for you on the Bernie supporters. They can be extremely off-putting. To me, their behaviour is often not very far removed from a lot of Trump supporters, and I see a lot of the same ugly issues. I also think, like Trump supporters, a lot of them are in thrall to the cult of the man rather than his policies. While I find it disgusting, I try to see it with empathy, that there is pain and fear behind it in both cases--I have to say, I don't always succeed at that. But for your own peace of mind, I would not engage on Reddit. That place can be an utter sinkhole of vileness.
 

vintageloves

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
390
Jaaron, I get the argument you are making, about Bernie not being able to do the things he threatened to do. But, for me, that doesn’t move the needle. I can’t vote for someone hoping they are not successful in their agenda. Especially when that someone has autocratic tendencies and has already indicated they are going to make an executive power grab.

The life expectancy for a man Bernie’s age who has had a heart attack is about 3.5 years. He has waited his whole life for his socialist ideas to become popular. Decades of being virtually alone while he praised Castro, and supported violent socialist militia movements in Latin America, and waxed poetically about the greatness of breadlines... and he‘s finally getting to the presidency. And you think he’s going to let Congress stand in the way? Hahaha. No. This is a man who refused to get a job to support his kid despite being a graduate of a top college in an economy he himself defines as America’s golden age. He let his child wind up on welfare. He stole electricity from his neighbors. You have to realize who this man is and who you are really dealing with. His ideology comes first, above even his own child. He is certainly not going to care that banning fracking by 2025 is going to leave people like me in the cold. He isn’t going to care at all.

It’s not that I don’t want to improve health care and the minimum wage and all that. I am a Democrat. I just won’t vote for Bernie. All of the other Democratic candidates have plans to improve lives for the poor and young people without being punitive to others. I believe fully that a Bernie presidency would cause mass suffering and a lower standard of living. His plan to break up efficient farms and turn them into 1930s Mayberry style family farms alone will cause a huge disruption in our food supply and potential hunger.

I don’t understand why we have to accept that this is the only way to make things good for younger people.

Anyway, that’s all I’m going to say about that.
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
9,110
I kinda like Bernie, not his politics but that he is honest about what he is and his plans to destroy America. You will know what you get if he is elected.
 

jaaron

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Messages
556
This is a man who refused to get a job to support his kid despite being a graduate of a top college in an economy he himself defines as America’s golden age. He let his child wind up on welfare. He stole electricity from his neighbors. You have to realize who this man is and who you are really dealing with. His ideology comes first, above even his own child.
I am absolutely not, either making a case for Bernie or telling you how to vote, but I'm curious about the sourcing of the claim above about his child ending up on welfare. I searched and found a politico article that made reference to him being broke, once running an electrical cord to the basement of a shared house, and having worked a lot of low-paying jobs so having possibly been on unemployment at some point. According to the timeline in that piece, he and his wife were divorced at that point and the child lived with her--no reference to her having been on welfare or having complained that he hadn't met his obligations. I did find that claim magnified on Reddit, but am curious as to whether there's another source?

I agree, there are other democratic candidates I'd prefer to see take the nomination. But if it's him, I'll vote for him.
 

vintageloves

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
390
I am absolutely not, either making a case for Bernie or telling you how to vote, but I'm curious about the sourcing of the claim above about his child ending up on welfare. I searched and found a politico article that made reference to him being broke, once running an electrical cord to the basement of a shared house, and having worked a lot of low-paying jobs so having possibly been on unemployment at some point. According to the timeline in that piece, he and his wife were divorced at that point and the child lived with her--no reference to her having been on welfare or having complained that he hadn't met his obligations. I did find that claim magnified on Reddit, but am curious as to whether there's another source?

I agree, there are other democratic candidates I'd prefer to see take the nomination. But if it's him, I'll vote for him.
His child isn’t with his ex-wife. That’s one of the things he’s lied about over his career. Probably because it wouldn’t play well with voters (and as tough as I am on him, I kind of get that one). Here’s an article that explains a little more and is not in any way a hit piece: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/bernie-sanders-vermont-119927

He didn’t pull a regular paycheck until he was 40. Instead, he prioritized his politics and made some money from writing essays and odd jobs. His essays dealt with important topics like the importance of young teen girls showing their boyfriends “love” and schools are destroying children. You can read about his essays, here, and trust me, there are more (I can’t wait until the one where he calls female teachers “b!tches” comes to light): https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/07/bernie-sanders-vermont-freeman-sexual-freedom-fluoride/

Here’s a tweet with a newspaper article from 1974 the describes the mother of Sanders’ child (again, not his wife; he had no children with his wife) as being on welfare:
Some of this isn’t so bad. But it’s all going to come out if he’s the nominee. The weird, vaguely pedophiliac essays. The fact that he couldn’t hold a job— the perfect optic for a candidate wanting to tax your savings and raise income/payroll taxes. The videos of him praising leftist dictators and saying JFK “made him sick” for his stance on Castro. The college his current wife Jane Sanders bankrupted right before taking one of those “golden parachutes” he derides so much. The “Sanders Institute” which employed several of his step children. His dirt is going to make us wish we’d nominated Hunter Biden.
 

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
6,394
Unfortunately the written word comes across differently than the verbal.

Do you think I sat around and ate bonbons? do you think I come from a long line of lazy slugs? Well I don't. I come from hard workers.

Do you think I"m not wealthy? why would you think that?

What is the income of the top 1%? Well I'll tell you! The average income in the top 1% is 1.32million a year.


I want the rich to pay more, and I don't mind paying more, but I am not in the top 1%.. I pay my fair share and percentage wise I probably pay more than someone in the top.001%..

I don't care about inherited wealth per se but I would limit it to 5million, inherited wealth helps ensure eventual lazy descendents, of course the uber rich do marry each other often (Nicky Hilton say).

I plan on leaving my kids some money, but you now what my kids say? They say, don't worry you gave us a lot in life spend your money. So I'm very proud of them. They aren't some sycophants who live on the past dime of hard workers before them.

You do know Harvard is elitist? I think Harvard should be free. How many kids get into Harvard because of 'legacy'? Jeez we have people going to jail because they paid for their kids to get in. yes they are probably 'nouveau riche' and can't get in on legacy you think that is fair? Do you think that just because a kid get's 700 on SATs that they are brainy? I know someone two guys who had perfect SATs and neither one is in the top 1% or for that matter in the top 8%..

Do I think Bernie will produce jobs? probably, certainly in renewable energy.

You don't understand where I'm coming from? Have you read about people who come from nothing and their journey to try and make it, even with hard work?

Do you know how many really rich people invest in jobs? Well most companies used their Trump bump to do stock buy backs to inflate their stock price.

Wonder where all the capital expenditure went with the Trump bump?


Trump did not create jobs with tax cuts.


I believe that we had a huge recession and Obama started the way out of it and Trump has used supply side econ to create a false sense of euphoria, one of the reasons why I think this is because the debt is BIGGLY and HUGE.. What's the use of 'job creation' if it really only means that we, as a country, are going into deeper and deeper.

I don't abhor the uber rich, but I do find them lacking in compassion and interest in lower class and the plight of the regular Joe (of which I am not one btw).

There's a big world out there Queenie.




Sounds to me that you’re bitter - you don’t like those of us who work hard to make money? What’s wrong with parents working hard to pass things on to their children? The top 1% pay 99% of the taxes. We also pump money into the economy in addition to employing people. What’s wrong with that? And what’s wrong with going to Harvard, I don’t understand where you’re coming from, other than you’re bitter toward the more wealthy? No all wealthy people inherit all that they have. Without those corporations and self employed people, who do you think will produce jobs? Bernie???? Hello????
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
6,624
Some of this isn’t so bad. But it’s all going to come out if he’s the nominee. The weird, vaguely pedophiliac essays.
Be careful with those words, @vintageloves . I don't care if you hate him. I don't care if you don't want him as president. And I don't care if you're right about everything else you said.

But be careful throwing this term about. Unless you can prove it - and I mean REALLY prove it - don't use this term. It's a dirty way to push back against someone whose policies you dislike. And it's to tar a person with the worst accusation this society can muster.
 

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
6,394
Well I sure as heck am not close to the top 1%. I try to read they whys of things, why are Bernie supporters so enamored of him? what is he offering that people want? and then I look for a candidate will try to bring the country closer not farther.

I said to you that I don't expect an overnight retro fit, what I expect is new houses to be built with non fossil fuels as their main source of energy, I expect people to buy electric cars as they become more and more popular and more models come out, I don't expect people to spend 20K to change their heating system, I think the government should offer rebates for people who DO change over to more healthy forms of energy, and I think it's inevitable that the world will have to get off of fossil fuels, do I think it's in my lifetime? nope, but I hope in my granddaughters. I read a very sad article about Australia today.. it's hot there and burning, they have a leader who's a trump type who does not believe in man made global heating, so now they burn, very sad. I did not make anything clear about not caring about the cost, I specifically said I didn't expect for the change to be immediate, that everyone would be forced to do it.. the government cannot mandate that everyone spend 20K on a new heating system and I never thought that it would. Re read what I said.

My next home will have to have a gas stove (LP) but I will do my best to limit to this. To me this argument is like people who used the horse and buggy saying that cars will never last, or ice vs the refrigerator. Change is slow or can be fast.. Our world is crowded and getting more so, it's only logical to me to try and use the cleanest possible energy for the future of my granddaughter and everyone. It's akin to unleaded vs leaded gas, reports were unleaded was worse. etc. Change is slow, I expect it to be slow.


Well, I’m not rich. I’m not even CLOSE to being the 1%. I’m just assumed to be rich by Bernie supporters when they find out I don’t support him. Are you really ok with your son treating people like that? Does a 7K childbirth bill just override all requirements for decency?

I explained to you very clearly that people with NG (and oil and propane) will have to spend tens of thousands of dollars to retrofit our homes (and, yes, it’s exactly what Bernie would be requiring us to do) and you just handwaved it away. It’s a cost people cannot afford, and you made it pretty crystal clear you don’t care. I’m not sure what else to say.



No. This is not normal behavior and you should not be excusing this.
 

Tekate

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
6,394
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