shape
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Whiteflash ACA Diamond

diamondseeker2006

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telephone89|1449075291|3956441 said:
No, I don't think they would lie to you. If you look at some of the posts (Texas Leaguer) on here from WhiteFlash they are pretty open and honest. You can also maybe ask for a video of the diamond you are considering with one that doesn't have painting, and see which you like better.

WF customer service is A+++++.

I am betting that none of us would probably be able to even tell the difference between two otherwise identical stones with that slight difference in cut. I like the stone videos they provide on the site because it helps me assess clarity, but I do not think ACAs can really be differentiated by a video...the differences are soooo slight especially in real life viewing because they have tight parameters for what goes into the line. But Bryan, I am certain, will tell us if there is some reason the op should choose a different stone.
 

telephone89

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diamondseeker2006|1449079542|3956473 said:
telephone89|1449075291|3956441 said:
No, I don't think they would lie to you. If you look at some of the posts (Texas Leaguer) on here from WhiteFlash they are pretty open and honest. You can also maybe ask for a video of the diamond you are considering with one that doesn't have painting, and see which you like better.

WF customer service is A+++++.

I am betting that none of us would probably be able to even tell the difference between two otherwise identical stones with that slight difference in cut. I like the stone videos they provide on the site because it helps me assess clarity, but I do not think ACAs can really be differentiated by a video...the differences are soooo slight especially in real life viewing because they have tight parameters for what goes into the line. But Bryan, I am certain, will tell us if there is some reason the op should choose a different stone.
I would bet the same. But I think this buyer might be apprehensive now, so seeing that there isn't a difference, and can save a few $ will set his/her mind at ease. I think this will still be a lovely stone!
 

Texas Leaguer

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DiamondSeeker,
Thank you for your kind words. This is an interesting case and as I have said, most of the individual comments so far have been valid to a large extent.

The problem with the issue of painting is that there are multiple reasons a cutter employs the technique and some of them are not favorable to the consumer. There is a tendency therefore to assume that evidence of painting suggests that the cutter was trying to manipulate the stone for self interest and not for the purpose of making it as beautiful as possible. GIA to a certain extent perpetuates this notion by broadly penalizing stones that have painting, without regard to intent or visual effect. Of course their cut grade system does not actually analyze the light performance of the actual diamond so the ability of their system to make these distinctions is limited.

Today, the number of stones in our inventory cut specifically to remove all leakages are few. As DiamondSeeker alluded to, it was something Whiteflash and other well known providers of super ideals were offering several years ago. We occasionally receive these diamonds back through our lifetime tradeup program. They are of course re-evaluated to make sure they are in original condition (they are sent back to the lab and re-certified for this purpose), and go back through our normal internal review to insure that they meet all current specifications and qualifications for A CUT ABOVE. The diamond in question is such a case, having been originally sold in 2005.

Our cutters today normally cut to the traditional style that will have the IdealScope and ASET signatures that typify our A CUT ABOVE brand. We have elected to go in this direction to achieve more brand uniformity (which is often interpreted as consistency), even though it tends to favor one “flavor” of super ideal over another. It is an open question, and truly a matter of personal taste, whether eliminating all the leakage is preferable, given the slight visual tradeoffs. But market perception is a reality that we acknowledge, and we do follow the pricescope community closely and we factor in preferences that we see expressed here into our product offerings.

For those interested in exploring this topic further, there was another thread discussing a case very similar to this one that generated a lot of discussion earlier in the year including commentary by John Pollard, Karl K and others. I posted VPA analysis of the diamond to that thread and also had our photography department do some comparison videos of the crown-only painted diamond in that discussion side by side a traditional A CUT ABOVE. You can find it here:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/does-this-diamond-have-painting-digging.210763/?hilit=painting']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/does-this-diamond-have-painting-digging.210763/?hilit=painting[/URL]

Below is VPA analysis of the diamond in this thread: (you will notice that this diamond is painted more lightly that the diamond in the previous case).
vpa_ags-6339604_0.png

vpa_ags-6339604.png
 

BlingBling87

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Thank you for all of this info!!! Its a bit above my head but its great to have such knowledge on this forum. I will report back on what Bryan says from WF.

I guess from my perspective...am i getting to much into the weeds with this? I mean how would any normal person know that a diamond is painted? If you bought from GOG or BN how would you know? If I decide to not go with this diamond how can I rule out "painted diamonds"????

I just want a diamond that faces up white and is eye clean...not sure that I need to fully dive into "scintillation" patterns....?
 

gm89uk

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Thanks for your explanation Texas Leaguer. ^As to the above, you are quite right, It is easy to get bogged down in the details but I think it will be a great performer.
 

diamondseeker2006

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BlingBling87|1449091191|3956543 said:
Thank you for all of this info!!! Its a bit above my head but its great to have such knowledge on this forum. I will report back on what Bryan says from WF.

I guess from my perspective...am i getting to much into the weeds with this? I mean how would any normal person know that a diamond is painted? If you bought from GOG or BN how would you know? If I decide to not go with this diamond how can I rule out "painted diamonds"????

I just want a diamond that faces up white and is eye clean...not sure that I need to fully dive into "scintillation" patterns....?

No normal diamond shopper would have a clue about this. You'd know at GOG because they also post light return images. You would not know from Blue Nile because you normally have no light return images.

You are dealing with very top tier diamonds when you get into the ACA line, or any of the true hearts and arrows diamonds from select vendors. As I said before, it might be hard for the average person to tell this stone from another ACA in real life viewing. I would hear Bryan's opinion before deciding, but if my choice was this F stone for the same price as a regular ACA H color that faces up smaller, I think I'd be choosing the F!
 

pyramid

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I remember way back when 8 star diamonds were popular and limited and expensive it was said they were heavily painted. One of the appraisers on here who has sadly passed away Rockdoc vouched for them as being more beautiful, he was very knowledgeable and immaculate in his work with all the professional equipment and training there was. A Cut Above brought out another brand called A Cut Above 2 and sold both. I was looking at diamonds and realised there was this thing going on with GIA and painted diamonds after reading a post by Brian Gavin who was one of those in charge at Whiteflash and himself a 5th generation cutter. In his post he was lamenting as Bryan said about painting being for the good and not like the mainstream who did it for cheating weight, he also said now that peoples hands are tied with the GIA downgrading that we would see more steep deep diamonds instead as cutters would make diamonds to suit GIA's new cut grade and safe weight in this way. Reading between the lines or maybe just my interpretation he may have meant that this painting was being singled out and condemned to get cutters to make more of these steep diamonds to get the GIA excellent grade rather than make use of the AGS laboratory.

I asked him about the difference in the two ACA diamonds and he said the painted one would show broad flashes of fire off the edge of the stone and the other style would be more on off sparkle. He said people who saw them were equal some liked one more than the other. I remember some saying the traditional one would show more contrast due to the leaking at the 8 white notches you see on the idealscope at the edge of the bezel facets. This was all just when the asset was being developed so idealscope was mentioned more. I remember Rockdoc never changed his view though that this type of painting and especially 8 star he found the most beautiful diamond. I saw a video of the huge eight star which went around the country and to me it looked like the fire was rolling like sea inside the diamond. Rhino used to be one of the very few chosen dealers to sell eight star if I remember and someone said once they were up and running again but never heard or seen any advertising. If you search there may be some photos of peoples A Cut Above 2 set in rings in the Whiteflash photos in threads or in show me the bling in the earlier years around 2004/5 etc.
 

Andelain

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gm89uk|1449017117|3956211 said:
What would be the visual effect of a painted girdle

You'd get more brilliance and white light return out to the edge of the stone. Makes it look bigger and brighter. If I was in the market right now I'd be waiting you to to drop the hold off this one, if you catch my drift.
 

Andelain

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Pyramid|1449095386|3956581 said:
I remember way back when 8 star diamonds were popular ............

I have 2 Eightstar diamonds, and love them!
 

pyramid

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Yes wish I had bought one, if I remember though they did not send them abroad and in USA you had to buy in store. They were limited too and more expensive than A Cut Above and others at the time.
 

BlingBling87

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Just heard back from Bryan at WF ( Thanks again I know you read these)!

For the good of the group this was his response...

The effect of removing all the leakage allows maximum light to be returned to your eye. There are different opinions on this “flavor” of super ideal, but rest assured that it is a masterfully crafted diamond, cut with full intent to make it the most beautiful diamond possible. This type of crown-only painting is not done to retain weight, but rather to optimize light return.

The diamond has been thoroughly reviewed and meets all qualifications for our top super ideal A CUT ABOVE which you can review here:
http://www.whiteflash.com/a-cut-above-diamonds-specifications-and-qualifications/

We made a comparison video showing that diamond compared to an A CUT ABOVE without any painting. As you will see, there is very little visual difference detectable in the video. And a poll that we did at Whiteflash looking at the stones in real life resulted in a tie. Some of us preferred one, some the other, some could not see a difference.

Here is a link to that that video. The .964 is the one with the crown only painting – *your stone is painted to a lesser degree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLIAkbuOh0s&feature=youtu.be

The “flavor” difference is very, very subtle. The painted stone returns a little more light to the eye as a result of removing all the leakages. There is some indication that fire may be slightly improved by this type of painting as well. Contrast on the perimeter of the diamond is reduced a bit leading to some differences in scintillation that are difficult to quantify or describe. Neither AGS nor GIA incorporates scintillation directly into their grading systems for this reason, although AGS has made much progress in this area and continues to work on it.


Good right? :dance:

I guess my only question would be should I go for it or go with an H diamond with no painting and faces up a little bit smaller...the idea of having an F color diamond is awesome to me...and honestly I couldnt tell the difference between the 2 dimonds in the youtube video..
 

gm89uk

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If it was my money, definitely the F.
 

telephone89

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F!!
 

diamondseeker2006

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The F for me, too!!!
 

Andelain

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Go ahead, release your hold on that stone......... :Up_to_something: :Up_to_something: :Up_to_something:
 

marcy

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I'd go for the F.
 

pyramid

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Iwould go for a G or above traditional ACA. If it was eightstar though I would buy that one.

It really is up to you. I just want the best cut symmetry normal looking round brilliant. I realise though it is just a flavour. If it is a deal for the F because it is a previously sold stone then as it is perfect and will be like new I would buy the F if money was a consideration in it.
 

pyramid

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Just watched the video and in all honesty don't know if I would not buy the F now, both are beautiful and think if I want colourless I would. I can see the difference to me the sparkles are happening more inside the edge than coming through the surface but they are still all there and to make up for it in a way (if it is even needed) the larger sparkles of brilliance off the edge on the outside of the surface. That's how I see it and would tell it :wacko:
 

0-0-0

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I would go for the F just for the cool crystal inclusion. 8-)
 

BlingBling87

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Confirmed everything is eye clean and the girdle is thin-medium..faces up a true F

Going to go ahead with this one :dance:
 

marcy

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Sweet. I will be anxious to see it. :wavey:
 

ringo865

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We will want gobs of pics when it arrives!
 

puckerman

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hello,

I've been a lurker for a while and i just want to say that i'm loving that F also!! I need to find a 2.1 carat like this F. I'll swing by whiteflash and check it out tomorrow.
 

BlingBling87

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It ships on monday...cant wait to see it! the anticipation is killing us. :wall:
 

BlingBling87

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Its here :love:

No clue how to take a picture of a diamond. These really dont do it justice. Its so white and sparkly. I couldn't be happier with this diamond. Thank you to everyone for your input.

Question...i got an email from Whiteflash for ring insurance... "Perfect Circle Jewelry Insurance" by Jewelers Mutual Insurance Co. Should I go with them or someone else? Do the diamond and setting get insured separately? Im sure there is already a thread on this if someone could post it.

Thank you!!

_35550.jpg

_35551.jpg
 

telephone89

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Yay! Looks lovely.

For insurance, price out a standalone (perfect circle) against your homeowners policy. I prefer having it on my homeowners for ease- everything all together.
 

BlingBling87

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Perfect circle quoted me at $144 a year.... sound reasonable? We are in the process of purchasing a home so we dont have homeowners yet...

Anyone use a different company that they would recommend?
 

newjourney

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Congrats on your diamond! In my opinion, I think that's a fair quote. Am I correct to assume that your quote was generated based on the purchased price and not the WF's appraised value?

To give you a frame of reference, I just went through this process a couple weeks ago with Perfect Circle for my fiance's WF setting/diamond. I think they're a great company to work with, especially since they have a good preventive coverage policy. I opted to insure at a 115% of the purchased value to buffer for market inflation. The premium was about $250/year. Even if I were to insure at the purchased price, I'd still hurt (~$25 cheaper).

I think it's possible to find a cheaper quote elsewhere, but through my research I learned that jewelry premiums are typically determined from 1-2% of the declared value based on your location, so you may not be saving that much after all unless you move. If you do find a cheaper insurer, I'd scrutinize their coverage policy to see if their quote is justified.
 

marcy

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Your diamond looks fabulous. I insured my ACA with perfect circle and think their rates are reasonable. I got a quote from our home owner's company and the premiums were about the same but they didn't convince me if I lost my diamond or ring I'd get another ACA diamond - it sounded like they'd match carat, clarity and color.
 

BlingBling87

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Great! Thank you for both of your responses!
 
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