What's up with ladies choosing their engagement rings?

[Gypsy]

I don't know if this has been said but... also it seems to ME that the proposal isn't a "surprise" anymore. I mean, most people I know who are getting married have seriously talked about it. Couples are doing a lot more planning together as society has become accepting of unmarried men and women engaging long term relationships together without the requirement of marriage. So the chosing the ring becomes another 'joint activity' that brings you closer to your goal... marriage. I think that if you think of it that way, it's actually really romantic. To me anyway.

That SAID. I waas not a Pser when I was engaged and I totally knew the "official" proposal was coming because he'd already asked me 100 times in everyway to be his wife and then I even did the diamond research (shape, cut, quality, color, clarity... etc.) myself (I'm more the researcher in our relationship) and had browsed stores and settings with my fiance so he knew what types I settings I was (then) leaning toward and then once that was DONE, he chose the actual diamond and ring and planned the proposal and proposed himself. Best of both worlds, and it suited us. Which is the point really. I considered myself engaged the first time I said "yes"... the ring was a formality. A lovely one. But being engaged has very little to do with the ring. IMO.

I think what you are describing is just an evolution of having a 'firm' tradition of the groom picking what he wanted (and white knuckling whether she would like it, or it would ( ) show her he REALLY loved her enough, or whatever) and surprising the woman (which was really the best option in a society that frowned on unmarried couples spending too much time together before marriage) with a proposal to something that reflects our current societal reality of everyone kinda doing their own thing as it suits them, their morality and beliefs, and their relationships with one another.

Also, you have to realize. PS isn't the norm, as other's have stated.

 

[packrat]

Other than hiding behind a door and jumping out at me, JD's only managed to surprise me once-and that was by putting a 25# weight in a box w/a hoodie in it for Christmas. I knew what ring I was getting and I knew when I was getting it, even tho he tried to keep it secret. We'd talked about marriage for months before we got engaged. I don't even have the ring that he proposed with anymore. The stone (chip!) fell out, the setting had a big scratch on it that the store refused to fix (told me I was too picky-hello?) and the resizing job looked like a chimpanzee had done it. I do have the rings we got married with. After coming here I realized I am a colored stone girl at heart and now have a spinel ring and am working on having a few others made that I'll wear as engagement rings. JD's all for it. It makes me happy.

 

[Sha]

This is the 21st century. Not the first half of the 20th. The 21st.

We drive.
We make our own money.
We own property.
We own businesses.
We vote.
We hold public office.
We run for President.

And WE decide if and when we marry, who we marry, and how we marry. And if we want to choose the bling, we will.

The ring in this century represents an understanding and commitment between two people. Not a promise from the male to the female that she'll never have to worry her pretty little head about the big bad world now that Mr. Proposal has chosen her for his very own.

So why don't women take it a step further and BUY the bling too?

I know there're some women out there who do that, but generally women wait for their partners to propose to them, even if they've controlled everything else about the ring up to that point. Seems like we want to keep some parts of the custom, but not others. IMO, if the woman is going to manage the whole process and the only thing left for the man to do is pay & propose...what's the point in that? To me, it reduces the proposal to a formality.

I had a surprise proposal and loved it! It was a day that I was agonizing about when the BF was going to propose (we had discussed engagement/marriage before)....I had actually gone over to his house to talk to him about my feelings ,and he surprised me with the ring! It was a great moment! I did tell him my style preference before, but left the selection up to him. And I love what he got me! - It's just what I wanted - gold/solitaire/simple but 'different'. It meant a lot to me that he put a lot of thought into getting me something that I would like. But you know what...even if it wasn't 'exactly' my taste - it would've still meant a lot, because it would've come from him. That's where I think that some of the sentimentality is lacking. The ring process described by the OP seems less about the sentimental value of the ring, and more about its material and aesthetic value (e.g a certain carat, cut etc.), and so if it isn't to the 'proposee's' taste, then it doesn't have much worth. In a lot of cases too I think that women not only want a ring that they like, but a ring that can compare favourably to that of their friends. Is that what the whole thing is supposed to be about? Maybe I'm different from others in that I really don't care as much about diamonds/jewellery half as much as the average PSer..so I really don't feel the need to have all that control. Just wanted to let the OP know that there're others out there that feel the same way.

 

[Gypsy]

Hi Sha, that's an interesting point. About the woman paying. Our finances were co-mingled by the time ring shopping came about. So I guess ours was a joint purchase, though for some reason my husband won't tell me the exact amount (and never will) he spent (he put it on a credit card initially , in his name for that purpose and then paid it off in increments so I never knew what he paid-- and I promised not to compute the total up ever-- though it was our joint funds that paid off the card ultimately).

I have recommended women chip in on RT when they want something that exceeds their partner's budget or whatever. I don't see a problem with it. But usually their boyfriends do get offended by this suggestion.

To put things in perspective though... we also (not our families though both sides did help) paid for our wedding ourselves. The 'tradition' of the groom buying the diamond to show he is serious and can support her is NOT in a vacuum. There is context, and that context is that in 'exchange' and the bride (her parents really) paying for the wedding. At least in Western society.

If we follow the logic you outlined to say that a woman picking out and buying her own ring reduces the proposal to a formality, the corollary is that the groom planning (HAH! I'd love to see that!) and paying for the wedding himself reduces the wedding to a formality as well. I don't think either is true.

Both are symbols of commitment. Who pays for what doesn't have anything to do with the commitment--- either you are committed or you aren't. Just because a woman decides to buy her own ring, for whatever her reasons, that doesn't MEAN that her partner isn't as committed to her as one who buys the ring and surprises his lady with a proposal. It's just that tradition and society have imposed the assumption on us that this is the case. Commitment is about the heart and the mind. Not about the wallet.

 

[suchende]

Hi Sha, that's an interesting point. About the woman paying. Our finances were co-mingled by the time ring shopping came about. So I guess ours was a joint purchase, though for some reason my husband won't tell me the exact amount (and never will) he spent (he put it on a credit card initially , in his name for that purpose and then paid it off in increments so I never knew what he paid-- and I promised not to compute the total up ever-- though it was our joint funds that paid off the card ultimately).

I have recommended women chip in on RT when they want something that exceeds their partner's budget or whatever. I don't see a problem with it. But usually their boyfriends do get offended by this suggestion.

To put things in perspective though... we also (not our families though both sides did help) paid for our wedding ourselves. The 'tradition' of the groom buying the diamond to show he is serious and can support her is NOT in a vacuum. There is context, and that context is that in 'exchange' and the bride (her parents really) paying for the wedding. At least in Western society.

If we follow the logic you outlined to say that a woman picking out and buying her own ring reduces the proposal to a formality, the corollary is that the groom planning (HAH! I'd love to see that!) and paying for the wedding himself reduces the wedding to a formality as well. I don't think either is true.

Both are symbols of commitment. Who pays for what doesn't have anything to do with the commitment--- either you are committed or you aren't. Just because a woman decides to buy her own ring, for whatever her reasons, that doesn't MEAN that her partner isn't as committed to her as one who buys the ring and surprises his lady with a proposal. It's just that tradition and society have imposed the assumption on us that this is the case. Commitment is about the heart and the mind. Not about the wallet.

I can't find text to back this up on a cursory search, but a friend of mine with a greater interest in family law than I have said one possibly explanation for expensive engagement rings grew out of the need to compensate women for their presumably lost virginities after courts abolished "breach of promise" as a cause of action in the event of breaking off an engagement. I guess it was assumed that after a couple became engaged, they couldn't wait to get down and dirty? So, when you didn't have legal recourse anymore, you at least got to keep a rock.

 

[HopeDream]

I picked-out (and paid for) my engagement ring because we were both ready to be engaged, but I'm a very picky woman and FI didn't know where to start with choosing a stone or setting. The perfect stone came available and I knew that if we didn't get it then, it wouldn't be there by the time FI was financialy ready to get it. At the time I had money for a ring and he didn't, so that's how it worked out. As it turns out, now FI has money, and I don't so he'll be paying for our wedding.

FI's proposal to me was completely romantic and sweet, and he was able to surprise me with the ring because I gave him the unopened ring parcel as soon as it came in.

FI had mentioned a possible proposal about a year and a half prior to the purchase of the ring, so after allowing him plenty of time, I didn't feel like I was stepping on his toes. In the past FI had bought me jewellery that just didn't work (earrings too big and heavy for my ears), and though he understood why I couldn't wear them, he was still hurt that I couldn't use his gift. In picking out the engagement ring, we avoided an awkward repeat of that scenario.

 

[Imdanny]

What? I think it's great if women choose their own rings. Why shouldn't people choose the jewelry they're going to be wearing everyday? I know it's "traditional" for the man to choose the ring and surprise the woman at the proposal, but that might not always be a practical choice given that she doesn't have a choice in what ring she's going to be wearing, often for the rest of her life.

 

[ksinger]

Surprise proposal? How about no proposal at all. It was assumed. The stating of it an afterthought almost. Oh, well, yeah, we ARE getting married. Next. But then after a 27 year on-off courtship, we have what we call the "creepy spousal mind-reading thing" going on. Kinda handy at times. And at this point neither of us was into surprises much anymore. Just dang happy to be back together.

So, I had a budget, researched, shopped and picked out my ring. He loved me for not expecting him to do it. He hates to shop for ANYTHING, and jewelry would be pure torture. Far be it for me to torture the guy I love.

More than one way to skin a cat, that's for sure. Our way worked for us. But then stereotypical large "romantic" gestures make us both want to gag. I think it can be sweet for others, but it just wouldn't work for us. Romance to me, is him remembering that I love garlic-stuffed olives, and getting me a jar as a surprise. Or giving me car wash coupons. Or making me homemade tomato soup when I'm sick. Little things on a regular basis. Romantic.

 

[lbbaber]

"So why don't women take it a step further and BUY the bling too? "

Correct me if I'm wrong, but once you are agreeing to marry the man, and then do....your finances, usually, are co-mingled. His debt is yours, your debt is his. You cohabitate (if you don't already) and share living expenses. So if the ring money comes out of his bank account or hers, the bottom line affects you both. (obviously not so if you are signing a pre-nup).

My SO didnt give me a budget when he said pick out a ring, he said get whatever I want, but I felt bad going over 10,000 so I chipped in a few thousand myself....ironically, now that I realise it---it didnt matter whose bank account it came out of because it's all OUR money now. We own a home TOGETHER, have kids TOGETHER, and pay bills TOGETHER. And now that I am a SAHM it's still OUR money. It doesnt become HIS bc I am not working. That's why we got married. To face the world (and the bills that come with it) TOGETHER.

So, yes, the man can take claim for paying for the ring (even though MANY women pay too nowadays)....but I find it ironic bc he is buying an object that represents your life joining together---all of it.

 

[natascha]

The proposal can be a complete surprise even though the girl picks the ring. I am a huge fan of getting an inexpensive ring to propose with (if you want the surprise part) and then getting the ring together.

My fiance and I have been together more than 4 years. We became a couple at 18 and after about a year talked about that we wanted to get married at 28. I wanted at least two years to plan the wedding and we both wanted the proposal to be a surprise. Some months later we also decided that he would propose with one ring and then would pick out the engagement rings together (yes we both have engagement rings). This because I am very picky, if he would chosen the ring then we would never have gotten engaged since he would never have picked one out in case it was not the one I wanted. During this time I also made it known that I felt emotionally ready but that I thought that we were not in the right life stage for it.

After that the ball was in his court ( of course if we got to 26 without him proposing I would take up the issue). Well a couple of months after moving in together, when he had a stable job, he proposed. We were 22 and I was completely not expecting it. This way everyone was happy, it was a surprise, which we wanted and I got to chose my ring ( with his input, the same for his ring).

 

[Pandora II]

In the UK it is still pretty common to be engaged without the ring and then shop together afterwards.

The engagement is NOT the ring and in some ways it's nice to separate the 'commemorative gift' from the actual serious decision of the decision to spend the rest of your days with one person.

Shopping or designing a ring together is a great experience and can be very romantic - and doesn't need to mean the guy giving the girl his credit card and saying to just get on with it.

My husband totally suprised me when he proposed and then we spent months doing the actual ring - I got a place-holder band in the interim (antique sapphire & diamond eternity) - and the excitement all over again 6 months later with the arrival of the ring.

If a couple haven't discussed marriage and the future to an extent where both parties are on the same page then I think there is a problem. That said, I admit that I do find the situations where the ring is bought and paid for, the girl has been very involved in the decisions and then the guy sits on it for months and months very strange...

 

[Gypsy]

That said, I admit that I do find the situations where the ring is bought and paid for, the girl has been very involved in the decisions and then the guy sits on it for months and months very strange...

Right there with you. Baffles the heck out of me.

 

[lucyandroger]

That said, I admit that I do find the situations where the ring is bought and paid for, the girl has been very involved in the decisions and then the guy sits on it for months and months very strange...

Right there with you. Baffles the heck out of me.

Well, as a girl who found herself in that situation, I'll explain how that happened to us. I was the one who learned about diamonds and had a very specific idea of what ring I wanted. He wanted me to be happy with the ring since he was spending so much of his hard earned money on it. So he let me pick out the stones and design the ring (with some input from him). However, it was important to him that he plan a fun, secret proposal. It was something he always dreamed of doing. So about 2 1/2 months and a few LIW meltdowns later, he proposed. This wasn't the ideal situation, but it was the compromise that we came up with as a couple.

 

[House Cat]

You've seen those David Tutera rings at Sears? I'd be wearing one of those if my ring had been a "surprise."


Then I would be called unappreciative because I didn't value the sentiment behind him making the effort to pick out a ring for me all on his own. I would be ungrateful for not liking a diamond ring that my loving fiance picked for me. I would be an all around awful person.

Great.

I'm not allowed in any way to think that it might be a little bit controlling to tell me what I must wear for the rest of my life?

ETA: After living together for 8 years, our finances were comingled and WE did pay for the ring.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I can't find text to back this up on a cursory search, but a friend of mine with a greater interest in family law than I have said one possibly explanation for expensive engagement rings grew out of the need to compensate women for their presumably lost virginities after courts abolished "breach of promise" as a cause of action in the event of breaking off an engagement. I guess it was assumed that after a couple became engaged, they couldn't wait to get down and dirty? So, when you didn't have legal recourse anymore, you at least got to keep a rock.

sooo,what does he get?..

 

[Dancing Fire]

"So why don't women take it a step further and BUY the bling too? "
Correct me if I'm wrong, but once you are agreeing to marry the man, and then do....your finances, usually, are co-mingled. His debt is yours, your debt is his. You cohabitate (if you don't already) and share living expenses. So if the ring money comes out of his bank account or hers, the bottom line affects you both. (obviously not so if you are signing a pre-nup).

My SO didnt give me a budget when he said pick out a ring, he said get whatever I want, but I felt bad going over 10,000 so I chipped in a few thousand myself....ironically, now that I realise it---it didnt matter whose bank account it came out of because it's all OUR money now. We own a home TOGETHER, have kids TOGETHER, and pay bills TOGETHER. And now that I am a SAHM it's still OUR money. It doesnt become HIS bc I am not working. That's why we got married. To face the world (and the bills that come with it) TOGETHER.

So, yes, the man can take claim for paying for the ring (even though MANY women pay too nowadays)....but I find it ironic bc he is buying an object that represents your life joining together---all of it.

yeah,why not???...

 

[suchende]

I can't find text to back this up on a cursory search, but a friend of mine with a greater interest in family law than I have said one possibly explanation for expensive engagement rings grew out of the need to compensate women for their presumably lost virginities after courts abolished "breach of promise" as a cause of action in the event of breaking off an engagement. I guess it was assumed that after a couple became engaged, they couldn't wait to get down and dirty? So, when you didn't have legal recourse anymore, you at least got to keep a rock.

sooo,what does he get?..

Virgin sex? I agree that it's of questionable value. And, these days, highly suspect authenticity

 

[Dancing Fire]

I can't find text to back this up on a cursory search, but a friend of mine with a greater interest in family law than I have said one possibly explanation for expensive engagement rings grew out of the need to compensate women for their presumably lost virginities after courts abolished "breach of promise" as a cause of action in the event of breaking off an engagement. I guess it was assumed that after a couple became engaged, they couldn't wait to get down and dirty? So, when you didn't have legal recourse anymore, you at least got to keep a rock.

sooo,what does he get?..

Virgin sex? I agree that it's of questionable value. And, these days, highly suspect authenticity

what if he was and she wasn't,then does he get the rock back from her?...

 

[suchende]

I think it's more to compensate for the cost of her sullied reputation? Facts seem secondary to perceptions in this whole transaction.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Found on wikipedia:

"Before the 20th century, other types of betrothal gifts were common. Before the end of the 19th century, the bride-to-be frequently received a sewing thimble rather than an engagement ring."

 

[princesss]

Found on wikipedia:

"Before the 20th century, other types of betrothal gifts were common. Before the end of the 19th century, the bride-to-be frequently received a sewing thimble rather than an engagement ring."

So glad that's not the case anymore! Any guy that gave me a thimble and expected me to use it would be sorely disappointed...

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Found on wikipedia:

"Before the 20th century, other types of betrothal gifts were common. Before the end of the 19th century, the bride-to-be frequently received a sewing thimble rather than an engagement ring."

So glad that's not the case anymore! Any guy that gave me a thimble and expected me to use it would be sorely disappointed...

At the very least, the thimble should be encrusted in diamonds!

 

[Allison D.]

Found on wikipedia:

"Before the 20th century, other types of betrothal gifts were common. Before the end of the 19th century, the bride-to-be frequently received a sewing thimble rather than an engagement ring."

Well......imagine trying to find a nice setting for that?

 

[slg47]

Found on wikipedia:

"Before the 20th century, other types of betrothal gifts were common. Before the end of the 19th century, the bride-to-be frequently received a sewing thimble rather than an engagement ring."

Well......imagine trying to find a nice setting for that?

I hear SEARS carries some in the David Tutera line!

 

[Gypsy]

Found on wikipedia:

"Before the 20th century, other types of betrothal gifts were common. Before the end of the 19th century, the bride-to-be frequently received a sewing thimble rather than an engagement ring."

Well......imagine trying to find a nice setting for that?

Ask and you shall receive.

 

[VRBeauty]

LOL - and just think, it could double as a shot glass!

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

haha love the thimble ring!

with asides to the OP: my now husband would not want me to surprise him with a car of my choosing, and I felt the same way about my ring. We knew we would get married, and when. So we went shopping for the ring. We paid for it, and he "surprised" me with it by telling me it was still getting sized meanwhile he gave it to me the next morning when I woke up. He was being a very sneaky man! It worked out perfectly for us!

 

[Mayk]

My FI took me shopping to see what I liked and then he did the purchase and held the ring for months before he finally popped the question.... I thought he was just teasing me... I loved that we looked at them together it was fun.. and I tried on all kinds of wild things.... but love what we both settled on.. interestingly enough.. I ended up liking what he liked which was 180 degrees from what I thought I wanted...

Second Marriage.. my first ring was picked my him.. and I never liked it.... never.. actually when a stone fell out I had it reset in something very simple... Maybe that should have been my first clue..

 

[Black Jade]

This is the 21st century. Not the first half of the 20th. The 21st.

We drive.
We make our own money.
We own property.
We own businesses.
We vote.
We hold public office.
We run for President.

And WE decide if and when we marry, who we marry, and how we marry. And if we want to choose the bling, we will.

The ring in this century represents an understanding and commitment between two people. Not a promise from the male to the female that she'll never have to worry her pretty little head about the big bad world now that Mr. Proposal has chosen her for his very own.

Umm,read up on history. In the first part of the 20th century, women did all of these things, including run for President.
No offense, but I do wonder why it is that so many women think that women's lives were completely narrow and restricted before 1970's feminism. Most women nowadays would not last a day handling all the responsibilities that their grandmothers and great-grandmothers, sometimes at home and sometimes out of the house. We need to respect these forbears a bit more.

Also, the engagement ring tradition never had anything to do with 'a promise from the male to the female that she'll never have to worry her pretty little head about the big bad world." It actually started to really become widespread force in the period of the 1920's when a lot of women moved away from the father's house before they got married and didn't live in the old communities anymore where social pressure (everyone knew everyone else) made sure that a man could not trash them and get away scot free. In the old days, fathers, brothers and neighbors would take care of such a guy. In the world of the 20's, the working woman living in the cities got a ring so that she had SOMETHING valuable that could be turned into cash her fiance (who now was probably someone she hadn't known all her life) turned out to be a bigamist, or a deadbeat or just not serious. OR, for if they actually got married and he would not/could not support her once there were children. The people of the time faced the fact that women get pregnant and that's its rather hard to work to support a family in the third trimester, even if its not a problem pregnancy. Also that its hard to work with little children. there were social services (pre-Franklin Roosevelt) and this tradition was meant to help the woman, not to be oppressive.

Rings back then weren't in all the different styles there are now (they weren't even when I got married in 1983), so choosing was not the super important thing it has become now that rings are (to be honest) very commercialized, with ads directed to women way before they get married, subject to changes of fashion that are really quick, and also seen as status symbols as well as symbols of love and commitement. So women didn't have a lot of investment in picking an exact ring out for themselves. A lot of women like to do this now. Other women still don't. Women on this board are likely to want to be choosers and even (sometimes) partial payers, which I don't have a problem with (my fiance took me along with him to choose mine, because he wanted to be sure I was satisfied, because I'm a jewelry person).

I think what the OP found strange is that, having chosen the ring, seen the ring and maybe even paid for the ring, there is this elaborate pretense that it's a surprise, when actually its lying in a box in a drawer of the house where the woman lives with the man already (and has usually for years). But I think he doesn't understand this because he is a man. Whatever you think of modern mores (that's not the subject of this post), women are still women and they want romance surrounding their wedding and for everything to seem new and fresh, probably especially if it isn't. I would think that if you had picked out the ring, the 'surprise' proposal that was very romantic in the place chosen and the way he did it proposal would be especially important because you would want the man to show he cared by taking the some trouble about SOMETHING. Isn't that the definition of romance after all? For the guy to do something that gets him up off the couch which causes him trouble and expense just for you, just because you WANT it? Whether it's killing an actual dragon, facing a scary father to ask for his daughter's hand (as used to done), or arranging a trip to Venice with rose petals falling into a gondola to make it special that he's giving you the ring that you picked?

 

[MichelleCarmen]

This is the 21st century. Not the first half of the 20th. The 21st.

We drive.
We make our own money.
We own property.
We own businesses.
We vote.
We hold public office.
We run for President.

And WE decide if and when we marry, who we marry, and how we marry. And if we want to choose the bling, we will.

The ring in this century represents an understanding and commitment between two people. Not a promise from the male to the female that she'll never have to worry her pretty little head about the big bad world now that Mr. Proposal has chosen her for his very own.

So why don't women take it a step further and BUY the bling too?
.

We pick the ring.
No proposal.
Why do we need the husband at all?
Maybe could be better if we all marry our cat (or dog)?

PS I just asked my cat if he'd marry me...he tracked down the blue Tiffany catalogue (which I call "my bible") and carried it in his mouth and walked over to me, dropped it in my lap, and said, "meow." Hmmmm. . .now which one to pick out.