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what would you do if you were mislead by a trusted PSer?

jetmal

Brilliant_Rock
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Feb 10, 2006
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1,062
I purchased a ring from a fellow PSer in November. I had posted a WTB on Preloved and she reached out to me saying that she had a ring listed on eBay. I went to the eBay site and checked out the listing, and we communicated back and forth and I decided to purchase the ring. I received the ring, and while I do not have a loupe, I could tell right away that there were dark staining spots on the gallery of the ring. I questioned the seller and she denied seeing any staining on the gold. The original video from DK and all of her pics do not show the staining. Because this longtime PSer also worked with another well reputed PSer on the stone sourcing and custom setting with DK, I trusted that the ring would be fine and the qualities were as stated.

My son had surgery recently and because I have really lousy health insurance, I am needing cash to pay off the huge deductible and coinsurances. So I sold the ring to another PSer. The purchaser actually louped it upon receipt and found that one of the side stones has a small chip in it that was also not disclosed in the sale. The purchaser took it in to DK and was told that the ring did not leave their shop looking like that, and that it appeared that the ring was likely soldered and left unpolished. The purchaser has decided to return the ring as I agreed to a short return window, and I completely understand why. Had these issues been disclosed to me, I probably would not have purchased it either. The purchaser is out $120 on this deal for shipping and insurance both ways, for which I feel horrible about. And I am left with a ring that I will need to put money into for polishing, and a stone with a chip that I will now have to disclose and will surely make selling more difficult.

Has anyone had anything like this happen before? What did you do? Do I have any recourse?
 

jetmal

Brilliant_Rock
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Feb 10, 2006
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Sideview1.png
Seller photo

Sideview2.jpg
What I received.....dark staining on right, and it is on the reverse side as well.
 

liaerfbv

Brilliant_Rock
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Sep 16, 2007
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1,241
Awn man that really sucks. I think this is a learning experience of examining things closely when you purchase them. At this point it's a he said/she said of when the stone was chipped and if it was soldered or not, etc. You know? Whether or not issues were disclosed (which of course if known, should have been), you can't really go back now and try and get a refund - you've had it for 3 months. If you had an issue with discrepancies between pics and the ring you received, you should have addressed with the seller then.

I'm sorry this happened. :(2
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
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May 26, 2015
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1,394
You should have had the ring appraised when you were suspicious back in November and pushed for a refund then, as the buyer did with you. It's difficult to suggest recourse now.

I wouldn't say you were necessarily mislead, you should have exercised your rights upon receiving a faulty product.
 

jetmal

Brilliant_Rock
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Feb 10, 2006
Messages
1,062
Did you try to return the ring to the seller?
No, I did not. At first all I knew about was the dark staining....I inquired about it and sent her that picture right away and she said she never noticed it. My plan was to take it in to be sized and would have had it polished then...but things with my son injury escalated and I put it on the back burner. I barely wore the ring, just a few times for special occasions.
After my buyer discovered the chip in the diamond that added to my despair and I contacted the seller again. She said she was not aware of any of that and that no one else touched the ring since she got it from DK.
 

marymm

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 21, 2010
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I agree with poster above ... unfortunately not only has too much time has passed, but also there is no way of determining when that chip may have appeared since you apparently did not notice it upon receipt nor before you sent it on to your purchaser. I feel for you as I have also been in a similar situation once.
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jul 23, 2012
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I am the PSer who helped make this ring.
I did not sell it and I did not see it after it was completed. Nor had I loupes the stones
I can’t say if that chip was on that side diamond. Frankly at the quality of the diamonds I wouldn’t be surprised? Nor do I think they were sold as high clarity. But I can’t speak to that.

As for the metal discoloration? I had never seen that when the ring was competed.

I agree with everyone above this should have been brought up when you received it.

I am sorry you feel mislead. I had a hand in designing this but had no money in this and no dog in the fight. It’s unfortunate you’re only addressing these issues now that you want to sell it.
 

liaerfbv

Brilliant_Rock
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@whitewave That's a little harsh. You have no proof of anything either way and you jump to reporting something? Slow your roll.
 

soxfan

Ideal_Rock
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Jun 20, 2013
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4,334
Oh man, that's tough. Old stones are often chipped. I don't know what dark discoloration could be? It's a beautiful ring. I'd say that if you didn't address the issues when you received it, you have no recourse now:(
 

kmoro

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
1,076
I purchased a ring from a fellow PSer in November. I had posted a WTB on Preloved and she reached out to me saying that she had a ring listed on eBay. I went to the eBay site and checked out the listing, and we communicated back and forth and I decided to purchase the ring. I received the ring, and while I do not have a loupe, I could tell right away that there were dark staining spots on the gallery of the ring. I questioned the seller and she denied seeing any staining on the gold. The original video from DK and all of her pics do not show the staining. Because this longtime PSer also worked with another well reputed PSer on the stone sourcing and custom setting with DK, I trusted that the ring would be fine and the qualities were as stated.

My son had surgery recently and because I have really lousy health insurance, I am needing cash to pay off the huge deductible and coinsurances. So I sold the ring to another PSer. The purchaser actually louped it upon receipt and found that one of the side stones has a small chip in it that was also not disclosed in the sale. The purchaser took it in to DK and was told that the ring did not leave their shop looking like that, and that it appeared that the ring was likely soldered and left unpolished. The purchaser has decided to return the ring as I agreed to a short return window, and I completely understand why. Had these issues been disclosed to me, I probably would not have purchased it either. The purchaser is out $120 on this deal for shipping and insurance both ways, for which I feel horrible about. And I am left with a ring that I will need to put money into for polishing, and a stone with a chip that I will now have to disclose and will surely make selling more difficult.

Has anyone had anything like this happen before? What did you do? Do I have any recourse?
I’m sorry to hear this has happened to you! This is my worst fear of buying pre-loved!

I don’t think you have any recourse anymore. You contacted the seller to ask about the staining, and they denied that it was even there. That makes me pretty sure they would deny the chip as well. The thing about the staining is that you already complained, got an explanation (denial), and walked away. I think the time to pursue it would have been then ... I’m not sure how you would prove it (either the staining or the chip) in the first place, and now it’s several months later. Did you take pictures of the staining as soon as you received it? You may have been able to prove something at the time but, now, all the seller has to do is say that it’s damage that you have done since November. You could try contacting the PSer again to plead your case, but I think that you’re completely at their mercy.

Some thoughts: ... the info you have about your ring is second hand from DK through your potential purchaser. I think you’ll need to have to verify that info first-hand before trying to sell the ring again. Are you able to spot the chip now? Do you agree it looks like soldering that was unpolished? Any other issues that you can see? Do you have a trusted jeweller or appraiser that can look at it for you (although that might involve a further expense)? Can you get a loupe?

I don’t think you don’t “need” to polish the ring before selling, just to fully disclose the condition. Unless you want to be a jerk too. :eek2:

As for the PSer that sold you the ring ... if all is as explained by you, shame on them ... I don’t think it’s ok to “out” them on the forums though, just in case you were wondering about that. I’m not sure what the rules are or what the community thinks ... maybe others want to be warned, but I dunno ... I mean, I really want to know who it was, but ... well ... I’m sure you understand ... it could be dangerous territory.

I hope that your son is recovering well from his surgery, that things get easier, and that something good happens to cheer you up! :wavey:
 

HappyNewLife

Ideal_Rock
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Mar 25, 2010
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2,527
I was able to figure out who the seller is (wasn't hard) and it looks like all the photos you had of the ring were from when she received it from DK. Granted I don't know whether there additional photos sent by email. If the former case, you had no way of knowing the ring had been damaged/changed. You should have asked to do a return then though.

I'm sorry to hear about your son's injury. I hope he has a speedy recovery.
 

JLW05

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
587
This should be a lesson to all. When you purchase a piece over a certain dollar amount, have it appraised immediately. If the stats do not match the description or if a chip was not disclosed, etc., I believe you have recourse. The undisclosed discoloration alone would have made me suspicious enough dash off to have the ring appraised. While I am sorry that this happened to you, I think that you needed to address any problems within a short period of time upon receipt of the ring.
Many appraisers are happy to give an oral appraisal for a very reasonable fee. If all is well, you have peace of mind and you need not go any further as far as documentation is concerned unless you decide to insure the item.
 

prinsad

Shiny_Rock
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Jan 4, 2018
Messages
270
I’m the PSer that sold the ring in the first place and all I can say is that I have been 100% completely honest about what I sold. I never noticed the staining, which looks really dark and obvious now. If I had noticed it, I would have contacted David Klass about it, he’s the only person that I would allow to touch the ring. I even sent proof of my email that I asked him to attach the side before he even sent it to me. I’m no jewelry expert but can polish wear off? It’s not really in a place that gets wear either. I didn’t know about the chip because it can only be seen by a loupe and I did not have one at the time of sale. The chip was never mentioned in any of the appraisals I had either. I just sold a ring that I put my heart into and I love but as everyone knows, financial situations change and I sold it to help with medical bills for my unexpected pregnancy. I would never intentionally mislead anyone. When you first got the ring, you said you loved it. I’m upset it’s causing you grief now. I texted so many pictures and sent so many videos of it. I wore it for less than 6 months. The attached files are the only work that has been done in the ring and it was done before I even received it because we noticed it in the video. I blocked out contact info because of ps rules. It was my first custom ring, we sourced the old cut stones on eBay and I was really proud of it.
EFE85E53-47D8-44F0-8FED-3E08F671B7BF.png A6AA8200-AC56-4F2E-8DAA-6D9384789878.jpeg
 

Attachments

HS4S_2

Shiny_Rock
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May 23, 2017
Messages
461
I wanted to comment because I have had experience with the staining. I also had a ring made by DK and an area that was soldered during construction also got this look. It almost looked a coppery color. I noticed on both sides where the soldering occurred. It didn't show up immediately but over time. I do not have pictures and my setting was repurposed into a necklace so I don't have it anymore.

I think a good polishing and cleaning would probably help. I wasn't super concerned because it was a small area and in a place that it wasn't really obvious.
 
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Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I wanted to comment because I have had experience with the staining. I also had a ring made by DK and an area that was soldered during construction also got this look. It almost looked a coppery color. I noticed on both sides where the soldering occurred. It didn't show up immediately but over time. I do not have pictures and my setting was repurposed into a necklace so I do have it anymore.

I think a good polishing and cleaning would probably help. I wasn't super concerned because it was a small area and in a place that it wasn't really obvious.
It didn’t show up over time. AND it’s the area where dk did the soldering repair.

This is good information

Good to see this info come out before TOO MANY people coming out calling the seller a liar. Smh

Also, it sounds like a few appraisals were done without listing a chip in that stone. Maybe it’s a feather? Maybe it’s been chipped during wear??
 

prinsad

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 4, 2018
Messages
270
I wanted to comment because I have had experience with the staining. I also had a ring made by DK and an area that was soldered during construction also got this look. It almost looked a coppery color. I noticed on both sides where the soldering occurred. It didn't show up immediately but over time. I do not have pictures and my setting was repurposed into a necklace so I do have it anymore.

I think a good polishing and cleaning would probably help. I wasn't super concerned because it was a small area and in a place that it wasn't really obvious.
I did not wear the ring for about a month before I sold it, so I’m wondering if it was starting and I did not examine it close enough before I sent it. It looks really obvious now, so this would make sense. I would have said something about that part being fixed before I got it, but honestly, I never even thought about it. All I thought about was a pretty brand new ring I got.
 

TreeScientist

Brilliant_Rock
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Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Messages
1,248
Situations like these are tough, but I honestly don't feel like the seller did anything wrong here. As others have already mentioned, whenever buying something over a certain dollar amount pre-owned, you should pour over it with a fine-toothed comb and inspect every minute detail of the item upon receipt of shipment. And if you do not trust your own eyes to know what to look for or you don't have the proper equipment (aka good loupe), then you should immediately take the piece to a qualified jewelry appraiser to get their opinion.

I mean, if you had immediately noticed something awry with the piece that wasn't disclosed and asked for a refund within a few days of receiving the shipment, then IMO @prinsad would've been morally obligated to accept the return. Not legally obligated obviously, but it would've been a "tisk tisk shame on you" situation if she had not.

As it stands now though, we have no way of knowing how that chip got there. I mean, you've had it for 3 months. Have you worn it at all during that time? If so, there's no telling whether the chip was already there or whether you chipped it while wearing it. And as for the staining, well, that's something that should be an easy polishing fix.

I guess this is one of those lessons learned situations for buying pre-loved: Always check your purchases upon receipt, and if there's anything at all that you don't like about it that you feel wasn't disclosed, immediately request a refund. Because if you don't, then you have absolutely no recourse, legally or otherwise.

I'll end with two opinions. First, complaining about a sale 3 months after the purchase, and then posting pictures of the ring that would make it easy for people to identify the PS-member in question is, IMO, a low blow. And second, did you disclose these issues to the seller who just returned the ring to you? You said "The purchaser is out $120 on this deal for shipping and insurance both ways, for which I feel horrible about." IMO, if you didn't disclose these issues in the sale (even if you didn't know about them. Ignorance is not an excuse), then you should at least offer to refund the original shipping cost so they only have to pay for the return shipping. If you really feel horrible about it, then this would be the morally correct thing to do.
 

GlitterInMyHair

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 16, 2018
Messages
368
I am so sorry for the situation you are in. And I hope your son will have a speedy recovery.

I think the staining should be a fairly easy fix. Perhaps you can contact DK, as he was the one who made the ring? Or, if you have a trusted local jeweler, you can also try them first.

As for the chip on the diamond, I honestly wouldn't worry about it. I think it's miniscule and probably only can be seen under a loupe.

As previous posters have said, antique diamonds often come with chips. And this one, imo, truly does NOT distract from the beauty of the diamond. As long as you disclose the chip in your future sale, I really don't think you need to worry about it.

((((many hugs))))
 

HS4S_2

Shiny_Rock
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May 23, 2017
Messages
461
Did the new buyer know about the staining prior to purchase? I saw your add on LT and shared it with my sister because she is looking for a 3 stone and I did not see that on the ad or the photos? I am assuming you mentioned it to the buyer in email exchanges.

I really think it just needs a good polish. I would not be too concerned with the chip because many old cuts have small bites. It really could have happened any time.

I hope that your son is better! My daughter is having surgery soon and I know how difficult it is when your kids are unwell.
 
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rockysalamander

Ideal_Rock
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May 20, 2016
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5,012
I agree that this is a bad outcome for everyone right now. That's really a bummer. At this point, you have ring you need to sell for bills. I think this ring will be popular and provided you adjust the price for the two issues, you should be able to sell it quickly. If it was me, I'd have a local jeweler have a look at the "staining" and see if it is a polishing issue (pretty inexpensive) or requires re-plating. Get a cost to do the work. If it is affordable, likely fixing the "staining" will help the sale. Relative to the chip. I'm an oldcut lover. I'll I'd want to know is it is a structural risk or not. If you don't know, I'd expect the price to be adjusted for "as is" or contingent as it not being structural. Neil's thoughts about a feather seem possible given that this chip was not previously noted by appraisers. Hope you have luck with a sale.
 

bludiva

Brilliant_Rock
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Sep 23, 2017
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Hopefully the issues that have arisen are easily fixed and it sounds more like an unfortunate incident than intentional deceit. I just want to say though, not specific to this particular object, I have seen some head scratching things offered here just like on any online marketplace (pricing higher or lower than what you might expect, sketchy looking hallmarks on branded items, bad photos, etc.)....caveat emptor still applies here. Just because a seller or buyer is a PSer doesn't make them necessarily more knowledgeable, thorough, or trustworthy than otherwise.
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
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The chip could have happened at any time and it has been in multiple hands.
Their is no way of knowing/proving when the chip happened.
As far as the staining it might be easily fixable or not but not asking for a return as soon as you found it signals acceptance.
I dont see any reasonable recourse.
 

Wewechew

Brilliant_Rock
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Not to pile on, but it’s three months after you received the ring- you are well past your window of having any recourse for anything not disclosed. And honestly you could have caused the chip yourself (I’ve been in a similar situation and had to assume I caused the chip in the brief time I had been wearing the ring).

In regards to your buyer being out over $100 for shipping- I assume you disclosed the discoloration prior to them purchasing it? I’d be inclined to reimburse your buyer, or split the shipping charges with them since you didn’t disclose/know about the chip on the diamond.
 
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lovedogs

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Jul 31, 2014
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9,364
Agree that @prinsad did nothing wrong. The title of the thread is EXTREMLY misleading and totally unfair. You should have reached out to DK/prinsad about this stuff much earlier if you wanted a refund, and especially should have disclosed the discoloration to any potential buyer. I'm sorry for your situation, but this isn't the sellers fault.
 

737lizakg

Shiny_Rock
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Oct 18, 2015
Messages
206
@jetmal it is a beautiful ring, sorry you have to sell it. Even with the tarnish, its a lovely piece that I'm sure someone will love.

Now, not that you asked, on to my opinion!=)2 I think selling and buying privately is such a minefield. Its not a department store, it's not just business. We all, more or less, feel we 'know' the sellers because of this forum. Saying you want a refund and that the goods aren't as represented feels like you're insulting the person, not the goods themselves. The few times i sold something on here I lived in fear that I would get an angry email stating that I sold czs as diamonds or topaz as aqua, due to my incompetence not insincerity. The weeks following a sale are nerve-wracking for me.
I have bought off LT and been slightly disappointed, but I can't imagine a scenario where I would be brave enough to complain, despite it possibly being the right course of action. I am, after all, just well informed enough to be confident in my ignorance.

All this to say, I get why you didn't press for a refund, I also get why your buyer did. I hope everything works out and that your son will not need ongoing medical treatment.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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19,947
I feel for everyone involved :(sad

There's a very believable version of this wherein everyone's telling the truth - prinsad didn't notice the staining of solder reacting to its environment over time (this sort of slow discoloration isn't unheard-of), and noone noticed the chip until the stones were louped by the newest prospective owner.

In this case the staining is easily (like easily easily) dealt with, and there are a great many people who will forgive small chips on old cuts, especially at fair prices.

I applaud both of you for posting here @jetmal, @prinsad. @jetmal I do think it would be good to have someone you trust - an appraiser or a local vendor - opine on the discoloration issue. I mostly agree with @TreeScientist - I don't think @jetmal is obligated to refund shipping if both discoloration and lack of louping were disclosed prior to sale, because in that case the last buyer would have known about the staining and the possibility of unwelcome surprises under magnification.


I wanted to add - the discoloration happening only on one side, even if both sides were soldered, could be due to that side being more exposed to air, to something in the ringbox it was stored in (lotion, perfume, something else)... that it isn't stained on both sides doesn't negate the possibility that it's superficial. It needs to be looked at by a professional.
 
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jetmal

Brilliant_Rock
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1,062
Agree that @prinsad did nothing wrong. The title of the thread is EXTREMLY misleading and totally unfair. You should have reached out to DK/prinsad about this stuff much earlier if you wanted a refund, and especially should have disclosed the discoloration to any potential buyer. I'm sorry for your situation, but this isn't the sellers fault.
Just to make it clear here, I did disclose the discoloration to my buyer and sent a pic of it. And I did reach out to prinsad regarding it the day I took it out of the box and I sent a pic of it to her and it is date and time stamped....I didn't ask for a refund, all I wanted to know is why was it discolored. From there I would have had to make a decision based on what I was told. Did I feel mislead, yes.....but am I running around calling people a liar, no! And I have not seen anyone else call her a liar here, so I'm not sure why Niel made that comment. I'm using this platform for educational purposes, that IS why we are all here right? Thanks to HS4S_2 I now know that this discoloration thing has happened to someone else before. Learning happening here! :geek:

I am aware that I should have taken it in for an appraisal immediately. But I did not because like prinsad, I was just so excited about my pretty new ring, and then "life" happened and I had to deal with more pressing issues than getting the ring in to be appraised and polished. When the chipped stone was also discovered, it made me worry that a chip along with a potential solder job may have meant that something happened to the ring that was not disclosed to me, and therefore I wasn't able to disclose to my new buyer. My buyer requested a return window which I granted, because I believe in them. In hindsight, I should have asked for one for myself. Could I have chipped the stone? Sure. Could she have? Sure. Could it have been there all the while and she didn't notice, absolutely. I didn't notice it either because I didn't loupe it. But my buyer did. After reading some of the comments here, I do agree that I should split the shipping expense with my buyer and I have refunded her.

I would like to go with Yssie's comment that "There's a very believable version of this wherein everyone's telling the truth " I do not think anyone had malicious intent. I have learned a lot from this experience, and I shared it on this platform so that I could learn from others, and share my story to help others in the future. Thanks everyone for your replies, much appreciated! And thank you for the well wishes for my son....surgery went well and he is recovering beautifully!
 
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prinsad

Shiny_Rock
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270
Just to make it clear here, I did disclose the discoloration to my buyer and sent a pic of it. And I did reach out to prinsad regarding it the day I took it out of the box and I sent a pic of it to her and it is date and time stamped....I didn't ask for a refund, all I wanted to know is why was it discolored. From there I would have had to make a decision based on what I was told. Did I feel mislead, yes.....but am I running around calling people a liar, no! And I have not seen anyone else call her a liar here, so I'm not sure why Niel made that comment. I'm using this platform for educational purposes, that IS why we are all here right? Thanks to HS4S_2 I now know that this discoloration thing has happened to someone else before. Learning happening here! :geek:

I am aware that I should have taken it in for an appraisal immediately. But I did not because like prinsad, I was just so excited about my pretty new ring, and then "life" happened and I had to deal with more pressing issues than getting the ring in to be appraised and polished. When the chipped stone was also discovered, it made me worry that a chip along with a potential solder job may have meant that something happened to the ring that was not disclosed to me, and therefore I wasn't able to disclose to my new buyer. My buyer requested a return window which I granted, because I believe in them. In hindsight, I should have asked for one for myself. Could I have chipped the stone? Sure. Could she have? Sure. Could it have been there all the while and she didn't notice, absolutely. I didn't notice it either because I didn't loupe it. But my buyer did. After reading some of the comments here, I do agree that I should split the shipping expense with my buyer and I have refunded her.

I would like to go with Yssie's comment that "There's a very believable version of this wherein everyone's telling the truth " I do not think anyone had malicious intent. I have learned a lot from this experience, and I shared it on this platform so that I could learn from others, and share my story to help others in the future. Thanks everyone for your replies, much appreciated!
I do want to say that @jetmal has been nothing but nice and cordial to me in all of our communication. I feel really badly that this discoloration happened and that there is a chip that is causing issues for resale. It’s not fair to her either.

It’s a learning experience. It just means that if I ever have a future item to resale of that value I should have my local jeweler do an appraisal right before I put it on the market....especially since it would be nice to have for the buyer as well.
 
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