What teachers really want to tell parents

[vc10um]

What teachers really want to tell parents

I'd love to hear thoughts from both teachers and parents, but I find myself nodding in vehement agreement with pretty much everything in the article. Especially since I know parents with the 25 year old on the couch eating potato chips...and they're still making excuses for him.

 

[ksinger]

All very true. Unfortunately, the helicopter parents can't see that they ARE helicopter parents. I've mentioned this before, but will mention it again, I have a friend whose brother works personnel for an oil company, and he tells numerous stories of PARENTS showing up at the office to complain and make whiny excuses when their 25 year old graduate engineer gets reprimanded on the job for something. They are, of course, politely informed that their days of parenting are now OVER, at least in that office. I mean seriously, what are these parents thinking? Quite clearly they AREN'T. And it starts WAY before 25.

Loved the comment about the parent asking the kid, "is that true?" Lessee....let's just assume the TEACHER is lying first. Yeah, that's good.

 

[chemgirl]

All very true. Unfortunately, the helicopter parents can't see that they ARE helicopter parents. I've mentioned this before, but will mention it again, I have a friend whose brother works personnel for an oil company, and he tells numerous stories of PARENTS showing up at the office to complain and make whiny excuses when their 25 year old graduate engineer gets reprimanded on the job for something. They are, of course, politely informed that their days of parenting are now OVER, at least in that office. I mean seriously, what are these parents thinking? Quite clearly they AREN'T. And it starts WAY before 25.

Loved the comment about the parent asking the kid, "is that true?" Lessee....let's just assume the TEACHER is lying first. Yeah, that's good.

Haha my dad is experiencing the same thing in civil engineering. Their new technician was put on notice for showing up late, not getting work done, and texting during times when you really shouldn't be texting. Nobody in the office could stand it so they moved him to field work about an hour out of town. Next thing you know his mom shows up yelling at my dad for making her son work outside. When that got her nowhere, she called head office and they informed her that it was inappropriate for her to do so and they couldn't discuss anything with her. Next thing you know, she has the email addresses for all of the CEO's and managers and emails them a letter about how unfairly her son has been treated by my dad (it also included a lot of disparaging comments and insults about how my dad is a design specialist, not an engineer so he has no business in an engineering firm blah blah blah). They thought it was hilarious and my dad was getting teased all day for being "a big meanie to that poor little boy." Not really helpful to that guy's career .

Parents don't seem to know when to butt out and let their kid handle it.

 

[centralsquare]

Oh my! Never would have thought parents would ever do anything like that! What 25-year old man wants his mom doing that?!

 

[Cehrabehra]

I know this has gotten off track but I am CRACKING up - and my engineer husband was grinning and even chuckled about that last story... freaking hilarious. I want to hear more lol

 

[Haven]

So, so true.

When I feel down about teaching, I read this blog:
http://teacherofthefrickinyear.blogspot.com/

 

[MAC-W]

I'm not a teacher but my mother and sister are teachers.

Mom retired about 10 years ago from a small village school and was very sad that she couldnt continue to teach. My sister gave up teaching (in a big city school) a few years ago for exactly the reasons listed in the article. She said it was intolerable to not be able to actually teach her students and always have to pander to protective parents.




PS. as an engineer I'm Pi$$ing myself laughing with that story about the 25yr old and his mom. If that happened on my project he would be told in no uncertain terms to "toughen the F$%^ up princess" and it would take him literally YEARS to live it down. Because Engineering in Western Australia is such an incestous industry it would take him forever to live it down. Even if he moved projects and companies, the story would follow him.

I dont think parents realised just exactly what harm they are doing to their child when they 'protect' them.

 

[AmeliaG]

I was on her side until she wrote something to the effect 'Just trust me when I tell you your child has a behavior problem. Don't bother asking for second opinions.' then she says give me the respect you'd give a doctor or lawyer. Well depending on what the doctor tells me, I may ask for a second opinion. If you get news that's sounds extreme, there's no fault in asking for some more evidence. My mom just retired as a teacher; by the time she told a parent their child had a behavior problem, she had already consulted with fellow teachers and principals so she provided the backup before the parents even asked. She never just told a parent to take her word for it when she was giving tough news.

Of course, some parents are going to question and nitpick anything teachers do but the blanket advice to give all parents in response shouldn't really have to be 'Just trust us. Don't question anything we do or say. It demeans us.'

 

[Haven]

I dont think parents realised just exactly what harm they are doing to their child when they 'protect' them.

Hear, hear!
I agree.

 

[April20]

My sister just finished her masters in Early Childhood Ed and is in her first year teaching first grade. I'm really curious to see if the issues/concerns in this article will ring true for her and if so, how quickly. Going to pass it on and see what she says.

 

[MsP]

I am really unsure how I feel about this article... I do not have children so I cannot comment from a parents point of view but I am an instructor at a large university. There is this warped employee-client relationship that is like the elephant in the room. When conflict arises, I always lose. It shocks me how often parents get involved in the coursework, grading, etc of their college-aged students... and email/call me when there are problems. They remind me all too often that they are paying me to teach their student. I remind them that I create an environment conducive to learning, but it is their child's responsibility to learn the material.

I think this is different in K-12 as at that point a person is still learning... how to learn. By college, you should know. If you don't, you better figure it out.

I have many K-12 teacher friends and we all agree that there are good teachers, and bad teachers--usually not "bad" but worn out. I doubt I'd ever send my (future)child to school. I wouldn't be able to "Trust Us" as the article mentioned. Then again, I was homeschooled as a kid.

This was a comment under the article...

Don't compare yourself to a doctor or a lawyer. Yes, you all have a profession. But pole dancers are "professionals" too. The word has no currency. My husband and I are both well-educated and work within universities. We know -- and everyone who's ever been to college does, too -- that a teaching degree is one of the easiest in the world to get. It's where college students go when they can't pass the make-or-break classes for degrees in engineering or business or pre-med. Many education degrees never require a foreign language, more than rudimentary "math for non-majors" or even a paper of publishable length and rigor. I put myself through grad school as a substitute (although I'm not a certified teacher) and I've substituted or volunteered in secondary schools since 1986. And I can't tell you how many teachers tell me quite explicitly that the reason they chose their profession is because it's family-friendly; they have plenty of time off and substitutes to call when they or their child is sick

I find it fairly offensive in that the poster doesn't account for the teachers who want to be teachers... but I do tend to agree that, at least at my university, it is the major that people "fall into" when they lose interest or can't cut it in others. I can't really deny that. For the record, I don't trust my doctor or lawyer either... what's the joke... "What do you call the med student who graduates last in his class?"... a doctor.

 

[ksinger]

I was on her side until she wrote something to the effect 'Just trust me when I tell you your child has a behavior problem. Don't bother asking for second opinions.' then she says give me the respect you'd give a doctor or lawyer. Well depending on what the doctor tells me, I may ask for a second opinion. If you get news that's sounds extreme, there's no fault in asking for some more evidence. My mom just retired as a teacher; by the time she told a parent their child had a behavior problem, she had already consulted with fellow teachers and principals so she provided the backup before the parents even asked. She never just told a parent to take her word for it when she was giving tough news.

Of course, some parents are going to question and nitpick anything teachers do but the blanket advice to give all parents in response shouldn't really have to be 'Just trust us. Don't question anything we do or say. It demeans us.'

No the author didn't write something like, 'Just trust me when I tell you your child has a behavior problem." and don't question anything I say.

She said: "One of my biggest pet peeves is when I tell a mom something her son did and she turns, looks at him and asks, "Is that true?" Well, of course it's true. I just told you. And please don't ask whether a classmate can confirm what happened or whether another teacher might have been present. It only demeans teachers and weakens the partnership between teacher and parent."

In effect, don't question my account of the facts and undermine my authority turning and asking YOUR CHILD if I'm truthful, or asking if there is someone to vouch for MY word. BIG difference. That IS demeaning, and counterproductive. You've just cast subtle (maybe not so subtle) doubt on my truthfulness, in front of your kid, diminishing my authority. Yeah, thanks. Score one for your kid. I can hear the helicopter blades now.

A divorced guy I knew dealt with that all the time. Their kid was a habitual liar and would tell lies galore to his mother, about things his father had supposedly said or done, or allowed him to do/not do. Every single time the mother would round on dad, call all in a snit, ready to have dad's head on a plate, believing the lying child over the father, even though every time this happened, the father would calmly give the real story, she would ask the kid, and he would cave and fess up. It was like, how many times do you need a demonstration that your child has a lying problem before you believe it?? Crazy.

 

[movie zombie]

PS. as an engineer I'm Pi$$ing myself laughing with that story about the 25yr old and his mom. If that happened on my project he would be told in no uncertain terms to "toughen the F$%^ up princess" and it would take him literally YEARS to live it down. Because Engineering in Western Australia is such an incestous industry it would take him forever to live it down. Even if he moved projects and companies, the story would follow him.

the on the job ribbing would be mercilous.....but can you imagine what joking in the pub would be like?!

 

[MAC-W]

PS. as an engineer I'm Pi$$ing myself laughing with that story about the 25yr old and his mom. If that happened on my project he would be told in no uncertain terms to "toughen the F$%^ up princess" and it would take him literally YEARS to live it down. Because Engineering in Western Australia is such an incestous industry it would take him forever to live it down. Even if he moved projects and companies, the story would follow him.

the on the job ribbing would be mercilous.....but can you imagine what joking in the pub would be like?!

OMG - I dont even want to imagine that hahahahaha.

 

[MAC-W]

duplicate post.

 

[chemgirl]

I am really unsure how I feel about this article... I do not have children so I cannot comment from a parents point of view but I am an instructor at a large university. There is this warped employee-client relationship that is like the elephant in the room. When conflict arises, I always lose. It shocks me how often parents get involved in the coursework, grading, etc of their college-aged students... and email/call me when there are problems. They remind me all too often that they are paying me to teach their student. I remind them that I create an environment conducive to learning, but it is their child's responsibility to learn the material.

I think this is different in K-12 as at that point a person is still learning... how to learn. By college, you should know. If you don't, you better figure it out.

I have many K-12 teacher friends and we all agree that there are good teachers, and bad teachers--usually not "bad" but worn out. I doubt I'd ever send my (future)child to school. I wouldn't be able to "Trust Us" as the article mentioned. Then again, I was homeschooled as a kid.

This was a comment under the article...

Don't compare yourself to a doctor or a lawyer. Yes, you all have a profession. But pole dancers are "professionals" too. The word has no currency. My husband and I are both well-educated and work within universities. We know -- and everyone who's ever been to college does, too -- that a teaching degree is one of the easiest in the world to get. It's where college students go when they can't pass the make-or-break classes for degrees in engineering or business or pre-med. Many education degrees never require a foreign language, more than rudimentary "math for non-majors" or even a paper of publishable length and rigor. I put myself through grad school as a substitute (although I'm not a certified teacher) and I've substituted or volunteered in secondary schools since 1986. And I can't tell you how many teachers tell me quite explicitly that the reason they chose their profession is because it's family-friendly; they have plenty of time off and substitutes to call when they or their child is sick

I find it fairly offensive in that the poster doesn't account for the teachers who want to be teachers... but I do tend to agree that, at least at my university, it is the major that people "fall into" when they lose interest or can't cut it in others. I can't really deny that. For the record, I don't trust my doctor or lawyer either... what's the joke... "What do you call the med student who graduates last in his class?"... a doctor.

Wow, the comment you quoted is totally offensive. Is the education system different in the US? Here, you need at least a B+ average in your undergrad to be considered for a teaching degree. The grade cutoff is actually not that far off from law school (although law school applications involve other requirements). I've never heard of anyone "flunking in to teaching." I'm just really surprised by this attitude.

 

[chemgirl]

I was on her side until she wrote something to the effect 'Just trust me when I tell you your child has a behavior problem. Don't bother asking for second opinions.' then she says give me the respect you'd give a doctor or lawyer. Well depending on what the doctor tells me, I may ask for a second opinion. If you get news that's sounds extreme, there's no fault in asking for some more evidence. My mom just retired as a teacher; by the time she told a parent their child had a behavior problem, she had already consulted with fellow teachers and principals so she provided the backup before the parents even asked. She never just told a parent to take her word for it when she was giving tough news.

Of course, some parents are going to question and nitpick anything teachers do but the blanket advice to give all parents in response shouldn't really have to be 'Just trust us. Don't question anything we do or say. It demeans us.'

I took it to mean that a parent should trust the teacher when they say the child is acting out inappropriately, not about diagnosis of a disorder. A behavior problem isn't necessarily the same as a learning disability. If the child throws tantrums every day, the teacher is right to say there's a behavior problem that the parent should be aware of. I think the author of this article is talking about addressing generally poor behavior and not about labeling the child in any official way.

 

[AmeliaG]

I was on her side until she wrote something to the effect 'Just trust me when I tell you your child has a behavior problem. Don't bother asking for second opinions.' then she says give me the respect you'd give a doctor or lawyer. Well depending on what the doctor tells me, I may ask for a second opinion. If you get news that's sounds extreme, there's no fault in asking for some more evidence. My mom just retired as a teacher; by the time she told a parent their child had a behavior problem, she had already consulted with fellow teachers and principals so she provided the backup before the parents even asked. She never just told a parent to take her word for it when she was giving tough news.

Of course, some parents are going to question and nitpick anything teachers do but the blanket advice to give all parents in response shouldn't really have to be 'Just trust us. Don't question anything we do or say. It demeans us.'

No the author didn't write something like, 'Just trust me when I tell you your child has a behavior problem." and don't question anything I say.

She said: "One of my biggest pet peeves is when I tell a mom something her son did and she turns, looks at him and asks, "Is that true?" Well, of course it's true. I just told you. And please don't ask whether a classmate can confirm what happened or whether another teacher might have been present. It only demeans teachers and weakens the partnership between teacher and parent."

In effect, don't question my account of the facts and undermine my authority turning and asking YOUR CHILD if I'm truthful, or asking if there is someone to vouch for MY word. BIG difference. That IS demeaning, and counterproductive. You've just cast subtle (maybe not so subtle) doubt on my truthfulness, in front of your kid, diminishing my authority. Yeah, thanks. Score one for your kid. I can hear the helicopter blades now.

A divorced guy I knew dealt with that all the time. Their kid was a habitual liar and would tell lies galore to his mother, about things his father had supposedly said or done, or allowed him to do/not do. Every single time the mother would round on dad, call all in a snit, ready to have dad's head on a plate, believing the lying child over the father, even though every time this happened, the father would calmly give the real story, she would ask the kid, and he would cave and fess up. It was like, how many times do you need a demonstration that your child has a lying problem before you believe it?? Crazy.

ksinger, honestly while I think there is a lot of truth to the article, I think it's just a vent. The helicopter parents that need to read it won't or they'll deny it.

If the teacher is concerned about losing face in front of the child, then why break the news about a particularly distressing behavior problem to the parent IN FRONT OF THE CHILD? Somebody is going to lose face and if the news is shocking enough, the parent may well forget anything about helping the teacher save face and just ask the child about it. Did the teacher want instill a remorseful attitude in the child by shaming him/her in front of the parent? Fair, enough. Well, then the teacher needs to get the parent on the same page with her beforehand and their agreement with going through the shaming episode (like my teachers did with my mom a couple of times-I can avouch it worked) and not spring the news on the parent while the child is there. As her experience shows, you can't tell how parents are going to react when you first give them bad news about their child. Now I would assume that a good teacher can spot a helicopter parent a mile away and not even attempt a shaming episode because that type of parent is never going to back them up.

I was more dismayed at her recommended way for parents to approach a teacher with a problem the kid brings up. Her recommendation is to bring it up very apologetically and preface it with something like 'I know that kids can exaggerate.' Well, if a parent can't figure out on their own if a child exaggerates and has to ask the teacher, they don't know if the child is exaggerating. Why not cut to the chase and say, 'My child told me this. I want to hear from you what happened.' Helicopter parents are going to assume the worst of the teacher anyway and come out swinging.

Like I said, I think this article is a vent; not real advice that concerned and responsible parents can take to their children's school. Mom made the crack about wanting to work in an orphanage several times so I know there are parents that she just gave up on. Some of their kids were salvageable though which always surprised her.

 

[Amber St. Clare]

s

All very true. Unfortunately, the helicopter parents can't see that they ARE helicopter parents. I've mentioned this before, but will mention it again, I have a friend whose brother works personnel for an oil company, and he tells numerous stories of PARENTS showing up at the office to complain and make whiny excuses when their 25 year old graduate engineer gets reprimanded on the job for something. They are, of course, politely informed that their days of parenting are now OVER, at least in that office. I mean seriously, what are these parents thinking? Quite clearly they AREN'T. And it starts WAY before 25.

Loved the comment about the parent asking the kid, "is that true?" Lessee....let's just assume the TEACHER is lying first. Yeah, that's good.

Haha my dad is experiencing the same thing in civil engineering. Their new technician was put on notice for showing up late, not getting work done, and texting during times when you really shouldn't be texting. Nobody in the office could stand it so they moved him to field work about an hour out of town. Next thing you know his mom shows up yelling at my dad for making her son work outside. When that got her nowhere, she called head office and they informed her that it was inappropriate for her to do so and they couldn't discuss anything with her. Next thing you know, she has the email addresses for all of the CEO's and managers and emails them a letter about how unfairly her son has been treated by my dad (it also included a lot of disparaging comments and insults about how my dad is a design specialist, not an engineer so he has no business in an engineering firm blah blah blah). They thought it was hilarious and my dad was getting teased all day for being "a big meanie to that poor little boy." Not really helpful to that guy's career .

Parents don't seem to know when to butt out and let their kid handle it.

Oh, boy.

My son is just beginning a research job--his first since he completedhis MBA. I going to print this out just to show him how BAD I COULD be if I wanted to!!!

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE???? Jeez, when I was 25 I had my own apartment and was accountable to NO ONE and liked it that way.

 

[Aoife]

I have mixed feelings about this, especially the overall tone. I used to teach in the special ed field years and years ago, several family members are teachers, and quite a few of my close friends either are or were teachers, so I'm looking at this from a generally sympathetic viewpoint. On the other hand, we've moved quite a bit over the years. and the truth is that not all school districts and teachers are created equal. Some parents are over involved, but honestly, if I were in the middle of a parent-teacher conference and the teacher told me my child was acting up in class, I probably would turn to the child and ask if it were true--just to get all the cards out on the table. I wouldn't necessarily be disbelieving the teacher, but I would want to hear what the child had to say. Why should I just sit there and accept the teacher's viewpoint, especially if that was the first I'd heard of it?

Teachers are indeed professionals, and, in my opinion, grossly underpaid for the important work they do, but I can't think of any profession, including doctors/lawyers, where the professional gets to say "Because I say so," which is kind of the tone I got from this article.

 

[Autumnovember]

There have been so many times that I've *wished* mom could call and yell at an employer and then I think....wait, I'm 23. That doesn't happen anymore...I am the only person that could defend me. To think that there are parents who still do that is absolutely horrifying. They might as well get report cards at work and have mom sign it, too.

 

[dragonfly411]

I have mixed feelings about this, especially the overall tone. I used to teach in the special ed field years and years ago, several family members are teachers, and quite a few of my close friends either are or were teachers, so I'm looking at this from a generally sympathetic viewpoint. On the other hand, we've moved quite a bit over the years. and the truth is that not all school districts and teachers are created equal. Some parents are over involved, but honestly, if I were in the middle of a parent-teacher conference and the teacher told me my child was acting up in class, I probably would turn to the child and ask if it were true--just to get all the cards out on the table. I wouldn't necessarily be disbelieving the teacher, but I would want to hear what the child had to say. Why should I just sit there and accept the teacher's viewpoint, especially if that was the first I'd heard of it?

Teachers are indeed professionals, and, in my opinion, grossly underpaid for the important work they do, but I can't think of any profession, including doctors/lawyers, where the professional gets to say "Because I say so," which is kind of the tone I got from this article.

Aoife - What child is going to go home and tell their parents they acted up in class? Of course the teacher would bring it up to a parent in a parent teacher conference.

 

[Aoife]

Aoife - What child is going to go home and tell their parents they acted up in class? Of course the teacher would bring it up to a parent in a parent teacher conference.

I suppose there are quite a few who wouldn't! But your last sentence is interesting to me, because one of the things I learned in all that moving around is that not all schools or school districts handle communication with parents in the same way. For some schools/school districts, an annual parent-teacher conference might well be the sole contact that a teacher has with the parents. It's not the norm in all schools, however. Our DD's were in several different school districts in different parts of the country, and we had regular communication to and from their teachers--we would have been amazed if the P/T conference was the first time we had ever heard about any classroom shenanigans. It created a lot of extra work for those teachers. On the other hand, it certainly tended to nip problems in the bud. It created a sense of partnership with the parents rather than an adversarial relationship, which is the sense I am getting from the linked article.

 

[JewelFreak]

Why should I just sit there and accept the teacher's viewpoint, especially if that was the first I'd heard of it?

So if your kid said no, it isn't true, then what would you do? Start an argument?

We don't have kids but my parents NEVER supported us against a teacher. If they felt one had been too tough, they would say, "She (or he) is kind of particular, but we all must learn to deal with people we don't like. You're stuck with her this year so learn to do things her way. She's the boss in the classroom & you are not. Life is like that, kid." I remember a few occasions as my first hard "people lessons." Valuable. A couple of times Mom talked to teachers about attitudes toward my younger brother that she thought were not helpful to him -- but she never told him.

I feel sorry for the children whose parents baby them into adulthood -- they're in for some big bumps. Also sorry for the country -- what kind of people are going to run it and/or make decisions on voting for same?

 

[Aoife]

Why should I just sit there and accept the teacher's viewpoint, especially if that was the first I'd heard of it?

So if your kid said no, it isn't true, then what would you do? Start an argument?

We don't have kids but my parents NEVER supported us against a teacher. If they felt one had been too tough, they would say, "She (or he) is kind of particular, but we all must learn to deal with people we don't like. You're stuck with her this year so learn to do things her way. She's the boss in the classroom & you are not. Life is like that, kid." I remember a few occasions as my first hard "people lessons." Valuable. A couple of times Mom talked to teachers about attitudes toward my younger brother that she thought were not helpful to him -- but she never told him.

I feel sorry for the children whose parents baby them into adulthood -- they're in for some big bumps. Also sorry for the country -- what kind of people are going to run it and/or make decisions on voting for same?

Argue? No. But I would want to hear what the child had to say. My assumption is that the teacher would have some specifics, and if there really is a problem, there's nothing like the child seeing that both the parent and the teacher have his number. It also gives the child a chance to take some responsibility and be held accountable.

I'm all for supporting teachers, but if I were taken by surprise like that in a P/T conference, I'd want to get to the bottom of what was going on. It can't be fixed if you don't know the details.

 

[AmeliaG]

I think the problem is when the teacher and parent have their first conversation about a problem in front of the child. No parent should be blindsided by something when their child is in the room. Adults alone can talk more frankly but its natural for a parent to feel a little more defensive when their child is in the room. If the parent has to go back to the child and ask clarifying questions, fine. If its a serious behavior problem, its not going to be solved in one conversation anyway. But If the teacher and parent want to show a united front in front of the child, they just have to get the front united before bringing the child into the room. Else both parent and teacher are going to lose their authority with the child.

This author (who is a he not a she as I sexistly first assumed) ends the article by saying 'Trust us. We need you to have our backs.' so he's talking from an adversarial position-not a collaborative position and he's asking parents to have his back against their own children. The tone of his article is, 'Don't prosecute me. Prosecute your children instead.' That's a tough sell for the parents that are responsible and concerned about their kids and don't want to unfairly crucify either the teachers or their kids.

That having been said, I think he makes a great point in that it's OK if your child gets in trouble once in a while. It builds character. That point gets lost on so many parents. Would you rather deal with your child's big mistake when he's in the third grade or when he's in his last year of college. There's a chemistry class in my sister's school where everybody's grades drop the 3rd semester but they come back up the last semester. You would think from hearing some of the parents that the teachers were out to destroy their kids. My Muffy got a C; well everybody else got a D so your Muffy's ahead of the pack. Oh no, what happened to her straight-A average? Sigh.

 

[MissStepcut]

I think the problem is when the teacher and parent have their first conversation about a problem in front of the child. No parent should be blindsided by something when their child is in the room. Adults alone can talk more frankly but its natural for a parent to feel a little more defensive when their child is in the room. If the parent has to go back to the child and ask clarifying questions, fine. If its a serious behavior problem, its not going to be solved in one conversation anyway. But If the teacher and parent want to show a united front in front of the child, they just have to get the front united before bringing the child into the room. Else both parent and teacher are going to lose their authority with the child.

This author (who is a he not a she as I sexistly first assumed) ends the article by saying 'Trust us. We need you to have our backs.' so he's talking from an adversarial position-not a collaborative position and he's asking parents to have his back against their own children. The tone of his article is, 'Don't prosecute me. Prosecute your children instead.' That's a tough sell for the parents that are responsible and concerned about their kids and don't want to unfairly crucify either the teachers or their kids.

That having been said, I think he makes a great point in that it's OK if your child gets in trouble once in a while. It builds character. That point gets lost on so many parents. Would you rather deal with your child's big mistake when he's in the third grade or when he's in his last year of college. There's a chemistry class in my sister's school where everybody's grades drop the 3rd semester but they come back up the last semester. You would think from hearing some of the parents that the teachers were out to destroy their kids. My Muffy got a C; well everybody else got a D so your Muffy's ahead of the pack. Oh no, what happened to her straight-A average? Sigh.

If that's true that EVERYONE'S grades go down, I understand the outrage. Top colleges place a high emphasis on grades and aren't going to know that. There's a bit of a grade inflation "race to the bottom" but high schools that don't play along do their top students a disservice.

 

[AmeliaG]

If that's true that EVERYONE'S grades go down, I understand the outrage. Top colleges place a high emphasis on grades and aren't going to know that. There's a bit of a grade inflation "race to the bottom" but high schools that don't play along do their top students a disservice.

By the time the kids are applying for college, its a moot point. The course is college-level and is only taken by approved students intending on a hard science major and the HS sends the student's ranking among students who took the course along with the grades. If a student is consistently in the top half of students taking the course and has done well in the standardized tests upon completion, college admissions counsels can judge the student's abilities to the parents' satisfaction. The shock is more from most of these kids having 4.0 grade averages before they take the course and with few exceptions, they're not going to leave the class with a 4.0. But parents and kids are warned in advance.

 

[chemgirl]

If that's true that EVERYONE'S grades go down, I understand the outrage. Top colleges place a high emphasis on grades and aren't going to know that. There's a bit of a grade inflation "race to the bottom" but high schools that don't play along do their top students a disservice.

By the time the kids are applying for college, its a moot point. The course is college-level and is only taken by approved students intending on a hard science major and the HS sends the student's ranking among students who took the course along with the grades. If a student is consistently in the top half of students taking the course and has done well in the standardized tests upon completion, college admissions counsels can judge the student's abilities to the parents' satisfaction. The shock is more from most of these kids having 4.0 grade averages before they take the course and with few exceptions, they're not going to leave the class with a 4.0. But parents and kids are warned in advance.

This depends to a certain extent on where you live. Here in Canada, there are firm cutoff averages for most university programs. For example, my cousin's application to her top choice nursing school was rejected because the cutoff was 86% and she had 85.3% in her final year of highschool. Her extra curriculars and position in her classes didn't matter one bit. I also lost out on thousands of dollars in entrance scholarship money because I went to a notoriously difficult highschool. Friends who I consistently scored higher than decided to switch schools in their final year and their averages all improved significantly. We we were accepted in to the same university programs, but they had far better entrance scholarships than I did because the dollar amount is determined by your average.

 

[AmeliaG]

That sucks chemgirl. Its like the system is encouraging students to attend less strenuous schools.