What are your thoughts on how government is handling COVID-19

[Dancing Fire]

If people can't afford to shelter then the government should give them an income till it's safe to come out.. that should be the law.. Frankly our government gives hands up help to the rich all the time.. time for the regular American to get a lift.

IOW, Anyone can chose to retire now!.Let my fellow citizens pay my monthly mortgage ...

 

[the_mother_thing]

IOW, Anyone can chose to retire now!.Let my fellow citizens pay my monthly mortgage ...

Why stop there ... free mortgage, college, healthcare, groceries, utilities, birth control, internet ... I am trying to figure out why I bother showing up to work each day with all the free stuff the government owes us!

Oh that’s right ... diamonds didn’t make the freebie-list!

 

[Dancing Fire]

@the_mother_thing should run for Prez...

 

[Dancing Fire]

Why stop there ... free mortgage, college, healthcare, groceries, utilities, birth control, internet ... I am trying to figure out why I bother showing up to work each day with all the free stuff the government owes us!

Oh that’s right ... diamonds didn’t make the freebie-list!

It would have make the list had Sanders become POTUS.

 

[nala]

New York might have avoided becoming the US epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak if Gov. Cuomo hadn't reportedly dismissed shelter-at-home advice

Gov. Cuomo reportedly said 'shelter in place' sounded 'like it was in response to a nuclear apocalypse,' and he had no plan of locking down cities.

news.yahoo.com

I’m grateful that I live in CA! @missy, I know you live in NY. What are your thoughts on this article?

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

@nala what kind of numbers are you reporting in terms of infection every day?

I'm an Aussie so it's hard for me to find your numbers.

 

[OreoRosies86]

 

[nala]

@nala what kind of numbers are you reporting in terms of infection every day?

I'm an Aussie so it's hard for me to find your numbers.

Hi! You can go here! Broken down by state.

COVID-19 Map - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University (JHU)

coronavirus.jhu.edu

 

[nala]

It’s a ridiculous and ignorant assumption on your part that I don’t care about infecting others, considering most of my family members are “COVID-fragile” but you didn't bother to ask. But to correct your misstatements: No, “flatten the curve” was NEVER sold to Americans as meaning “wear a mask” because when FTC/SIP became a thing, the guidance re: mask wearing for non-medical professionals was that it was not helpful/necessary/required. It wasn’t until a few weeks later that it even became suggested. ”Flatten the curve” was also NEVER sold to Americans as “stay home/inside until its safe to come out for ALL Americans”. It was to prevent hospitals from being over-run -- period. Guess what ... they aren’t overrun ... and in NYC - ground zero - they barely used the medical facilities/ship provided by the Fed Govt and Samaritans Purse ... instead, they shipped seniors off to nursing homes to infect/kill others. But sure, keep feeling like your government has your best interests in mind.

This has now become a non-stop moving of the goal-posts with massive government overreach and abuse of power. I read that some yahoo in CA wants people to “stay home until there is a cure”. Are you kidding me? If “you“ wish to stay inside forever, have at it ... but “your” fear doesn’t overrule others’ rights to go back to their jobs/businesses/livelihoods, regardless of how big a group is chanting about it or how repetitively they do so. Does it suck that some people don’t have a choice - like my parents/in-laws - yes. But they aren’t pitching a fit because they are also largely dependent on others getting back to work to provide/deliver services they need. Life isn’t fair, some people have conditions or have reached an age that make them more fragile than others; it sucks, but the world does not stop revolving.

The fear about over-running hospitals is largely passed for most states; and the goal posts do not need to keep moving unless there is data proving (not hypothesizing) a need to revert backward - and they need to be transparent about publishing it vs. just citing it when launching the next extension of SIP.

Risk is inherent to our way of life; we all get to choose what is best for our situations. You can drive a car or not drive a car; take the train/plane or not; go to a grocery store or have someone else go for you or have items delivered. And I respect all the medical workers on the “front lines” who are helping save lives, but I find it unethical and hypocritical to go so far as shame and lecture people to “not take risks“ when they always make darn sure to have patients sign those waivers for risky medical procedures ... procedures that help pay their bills. So spare me the lecturing (especially on a forum when you’re not that persons physician) about what risks are/are not acceptable when you aren’t paying that person’s bills, feeding their family, nor responsible for their employees trying to do the same.

States are welcome to keep giving people unlimited income to stay home until they decide the coast is clear, but that’s not a Federal responsibility. Governors are responsible for their states’ citizens since they are the ones exerting so much control over them.

I asked earlier for someone to post the law - from any state - citing failure to wear a mask as “criminal assault”; I’m still waiting ...

Very well said. Before people assume that I don’t wear a mask, I do and so do my loved ones. But I’m surrounded by beach communities that haven’t been wearing a mask for going on 4 weeks, that I am aware. They probably never transitioned over from the time the cdc told us not to wear them, so in all honesty, these beach communities probably never wore them. Increasingly, more and more people in non beach communities are choosing not to wear them. I’ve come to accept that masks have become just another choice that people make daily that could jeopardize the rest of us. Texting and driving comes to mind. How many times do you see drivers text and drive? Do you call the police on them? Do you report them? Or do you just thank your lucky stars that you caught them so you can get the hell out of the way???

 

[nala]

Cuomo says nobody should be prosecuted for COVID-19 deaths in N.Y.

The number of deaths in New York state dropped again on Saturday to 139 people as parts of the state have begun to reopen.

news.yahoo.com

 

[the_mother_thing]

New York might have avoided becoming the US epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak if Gov. Cuomo hadn't reportedly dismissed shelter-at-home advice

Gov. Cuomo reportedly said 'shelter in place' sounded 'like it was in response to a nuclear apocalypse,' and he had no plan of locking down cities.

news.yahoo.com

I’m grateful that I live in CA!

I don’t disagree with that theory, but I also have to wonder how big a factor the subway/mass transit played in NY cases/deaths ... nursing home ”mismanagement” aside. Even after SIP and masks became “a thing”, I saw pics/videos of people still riding with no masks/distancing/etc., and it doesn’t sound like it was on the receiving end of regular/thorough sanitizing all that often.

Cuomo says nobody should be prosecuted for COVID-19 deaths in N.Y.

The number of deaths in New York state dropped again on Saturday to 139 people as parts of the state have begun to reopen.

news.yahoo.com

And there you have it: "Despite whatever you do, because with all our progress as a society, we can't keep everyone alive," Cuomo said.

 

[missy]

New York might have avoided becoming the US epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak if Gov. Cuomo hadn't reportedly dismissed shelter-at-home advice

Gov. Cuomo reportedly said 'shelter in place' sounded 'like it was in response to a nuclear apocalypse,' and he had no plan of locking down cities.

news.yahoo.com

I’m grateful that I live in CA! @missy, I know you live in NY. What are your thoughts on this article?

I think it’s very possible this is true. I remember both Cuomo and DeBlasio initially being cavalier about the whole SIP concept for NY. I remember our mayor advising everyone to go out and eat in restaurants etc. as late as mid March.

Mistakes were made by our politicians. Mistakes that cost (and perhaps will continue to cost) thousands of lives. In nursing homes and in the general population.

 

[missy]

I read that if 80% of the population would wear masks we could stop Covid 19 in its tracks.

 

[missy]

@nala this is a good read imo. I posted it in the coronavirus thread this morning.

The Risks - Know Them - Avoid Them

Please read this link to learn about the author and background to these posts. It seems many people are breathing some relief, and I’m not sure why. An epidemic curve has a relatively predictable upslope and once the peak is reached, the back slope can also be predicted. We have robust data from...

www.erinbromage.com

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Very well said. Before people assume that I don’t wear a mask, I do and so do my loved ones. But I’m surrounded by beach communities that haven’t been wearing a mask for going on 4 weeks, that I am aware. They probably never transitioned over from the time the cdc told us not to wear them, so in all honesty, these beach communities probably never wore them. Increasingly, more and more people in non beach communities are choosing not to wear them. I’ve come to accept that masks have become just another choice that people make daily that could jeopardize the rest of us. Texting and driving comes to mind. How many times do you see drivers text and drive? Do you call the police on them? Do you report them? Or do you just thank your lucky stars that you caught them so you can get the hell out of the way???

I think a more accurate analogy is smoking.

If you’re smoking in your own home or car, or in the greater unregulated outdoors then cool. I will move to avoid you if I see you in the park.

If you’re smoking indoors where I know for a fact that smoking is not allowed, then absolutely I’m going to take action to see that you leave the space that has been designated as non smoking. I have in the past demanded that restaurants ask that someone move or leave if they lit a cigarette in the non smoking section I sat in.

Want to smoke? That’s your decision. But I do not want to be exposed to the dangers of it.

Want to not wear a mask? Fine. But not your store, not your rules, and not your place to redefine what the owners of that establishment see as safe behavior for themselves and their patrons.

If places want to let businesses decide for themselves what policy to have, fine, I’ll just no longer support businesses that don’t mandate masks. Hopefully when clusters start developing in places with no masks, people will wise up.

While in my perfect world people wore masks even outdoors, I do think outdoor transmission is much lower risk than indoor settings where we all are breathing in close contained proximity. So my compromise would be no mask regulations for outdoor spaces where it’s possible to maintain reasonable social distancing. But mask requirements for buildings or things like outdoor concerts/bars where people are jostling around all together.

 

[nala]

I think a more accurate analogy is smoking.

If you’re smoking in your own home or car, or in the greater unregulated outdoors then cool. I will move to avoid you if I see you in the park.

If you’re smoking indoors where I know for a fact that smoking is not allowed, then absolutely I’m going to take action to see that you leave the space that has been designated as non smoking. I have in the past demanded that restaurants ask that someone move or leave if they lit a cigarette in the non smoking section I sat in.

Want to smoke? That’s your decision. But I do not want to be exposed to the dangers of it.

Want to not wear a mask? Fine. But not your store, not your rules, and not your place to redefine what the owners of that establishment see as safe behavior for themselves and their patrons.

If places want to let businesses decide for themselves what policy to have, fine, I’ll just no longer support businesses that don’t mandate masks. Hopefully when clusters start developing in places with no masks, people will wise up.

Ok. My analogy works for me. Every day we give up control of what others do around us. We can’t control everyone. We can only control how we react. And no texting and driving is actually a law in my state and yet it is constantly violated and yet, many of us do not report them. So I use that as an example to show how defiant society is even when laws are in place. This thread is about how the government is handling Covid and the purpose of my analogy is to illustrate that government mandates or lack of, people will do as they please.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

Sure. Nobody can really force anyone to do anything. Cant control others literally but how I choose to react to people disregarding public safety is to be proactive in doing what I can to maintain social order and supporting government that can do the same. If I had a safe way to report people who text and drive I would but my memory for license plates is bad and I wouldn’t have proof. I don’t do it not because I don’t think it’s worth doing, but because I reasonably can’t. I still agree it should be illegal even if it’s not enforceable and I still think it’s a positive thing that I’m angry about it when I see it. Sometimes anger is the energy that drives change when things are unjust.

Edit: I would report a texting driver if I could because while I may be able to get out of their way, I still wouldn’t want them to hit a pedestrian who couldn’t or a driver who wasn’t skilled enough to react correctly. I can’t “control” them not to text but i can support and feed into a system that sets up that behavior to be severely discouraged.

 

[nala]

Sure. Nobody can really force anyone to do anything. Cant control others literally but how I choose to react to people disregarding public safety is to be proactive in doing what I can to maintain social order and supporting government that can do the same. If I had a safe way to report people who text and drive I would but my memory for license plates is bad and I wouldn’t have proof. I don’t do it not because I don’t think it’s worth doing, but because I reasonably can’t. I still agree it should be illegal even if it’s not enforceable and I still think it’s a positive thing that I’m angry about it when I see it. Sometimes anger is the energy that drives change when things are unjust.

I don’t disagree with you. You are entitled to be angry. Maybe I’m over the angry phase and have moved on to resignation, given that I’m surrounded by communities who don’t wear masks. I also have to wonder, how would it be enforced if it became a law? We don’t have the man power. Our police officers are already busy fighting more pressing crimes, at least in many communities. Have you considered that crimes have increased bc people hide behind masks? I’m sure you know about the anonymity factor when it comes to committing crimes. Not to mention the increased racist incidents that arise when certain minorities wear masks.

 

[nala]

I read that if 80% of the population would wear masks we could stop Covid 19 in its tracks.

Would love to see this article.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Aussie here

Oddly enough we are not told to wear masks. We're lectured on a lot of things (get tested even if only your nose is runny) but we're not told to wear a mask.

It's super interesting to see that masks are such a contentious issue for you guys.

 

[nala]

Aussie here

Oddly enough we are not told to wear masks. We're lectured on a lot of things (get tested even if only your nose is runny) but we're not told to wear a mask.

It's super interesting to see that masks are such a contentious issue for you guys.

Now or ever?

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Now or ever?

This is the official advice in the pdf. Gist of seems to be that they deem it unnecessary if you are well.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) information on the use of surgical masks

An information sheet that answers questions about the use of surgical masks and coronavirus (COVID-19).

www.health.gov.au

We can wear it if we like though. They're not saying don't wear it.

 

[nala]

This is the official advice in the pdf. Gist of seems to be that they deem it unnecessary if you are well.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) information on the use of surgical masks

An information sheet that answers questions about the use of surgical masks and coronavirus (COVID-19).

www.health.gov.au

We can wear it if we like though. They're not saying don't wear it.

And I notice they discuss surgical masks rather than the cloth masks many of us only have access to her in the U.S.

 

[MarionC]

The question is, how do you know if you are well??

I don’t know if my mask actually protects others enough, but I wear it in shops as a sign of respect to the people who have to work there.

Edited to add: the tourists are back in force here, and I have not seen even one in a mask. They are coming from larger towns to our carefully monitored village without a care in the world or a thought in their tiny heads.

 

[missy]

Would love to see this article.

This isn't the same exact article but basically shares the same facts. Looks like the scientific study will be released soon.

New Study Shows That This One Thing Could Cause 80% Decrease In COVID-19 Cases

A recent scientific study shows that one simple maneuver could reduce COVID-19 cases by 80%.

www.forbes.com

If 80% of Americans Wore Masks, COVID-19 Infections Would Plummet, New Study Says

There’s compelling evidence that Japan, Hong Kong, and other East Asian locales are doing it right and we should really, truly mask up—fast.

www.vanityfair.com

"If 80% of Americans Wore Masks, COVID-19 Infections Would Plummet, New Study Says"

"
De Kai, an American computer scientist with joint appointments at UC Berkeley’s International Computer Science Institute and at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology. He is also the chief architect of an in-depth study, set to be released in the coming days, that suggests that every one of us should be wearing a mask—whether surgical or homemade, scarf or bandana—like they do in Japan and other countries, mostly in East Asia.


If 80% of a closed population were to don a mask, COVID-19 infection rates would statistically drop to approximately one twelfth the number of infections—compared to a live-virus population in which no one wore masks.
"

 

[natasha-cupcake]

I rarely post on Hangout, mostly because I spend way too much time on PS as it is. I also don't like political discussions because they always seem to denigrate into angry verbal boxing matches. I do want to comment on the-mandatory face mask policy, though. So here I go, dipping my toe in the swirling waters of this thread. I'm posting a link to commentary by two respiratory experts, citing many referenced studies, critiques and articles--52 of them to be exact. They present coherent, well-documented arguments explaining why masks are essentially ineffective. I encourage anyone with an open mind to read the article, look at the evidence and make up your own mind. It's a long article, but well worth the read. I would happily review a similar article with similar documentation that substantially supports the ubiquitous use of face masks in public as a coherent, logical policy.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data

www.cidrap.umn.edu

My background is in biochemistry and allied health (B.S. double major--biology and statistics; two M.S.degrees, one in biochemistry, the other in audiology; no PhD, so not an "expert" in any field). I teach high school now, but I worked for many years as a research associate and clinician in three different major medical centers. I feel very comfortable reading the actual studies referenced in articles like this. I confess I didn't read all of them, just the major ones, which I found to be well done and convincing. The "studies" referenced in many news articles are based on modeling and are, for the most part, statistical trash. Generally, they're done to influence people, not advance science. Models are useful to explain phenomena, but as far as predicting outcomes? Not so much. Masks, particularly homemade ones, don't work. They're not comfortable or healthy to wear for any significant period of time, and are essentially ineffective in preventing the spread of viruses. The logic used by the politicians and bureaucrats who have foisted this policy on people is insubstantial, contradictory and not based on convincing scientific evidence (at least in my view, YMMV). We've been told that "it'll help slow the spread". Politicians and bureaucrats have provided plenty of platitudes, but no compelling evidence for that assertion.

To anyone who feels more comfortable wearing a mask--for whatever reason-- I fully support your right to do so. I live in a state that has mandated "any person in a public place ... who is unable to or does not maintain a safe social distance of approximately six feet from every other person shall cover their mouth and nose with a mask or cloth face covering", Those are the actual words from the governor's decree. I personally refuse to wear a mask outside. I feel like I'm suffocating with it on. It makes me feel panicked and anxious. It's not healthy for me to breathe in my own exhalation for extended periods of time. And yes, it is a complete infringement on my right to BREATHE AIR unmolested. In the grocery store, if I'm alone in the aisle, I let the mask hang from one ear loop. When someone enters the aisle and is moving towards me, I'll put it over my nose and mouth and loop it over my other ear. Because I want to be as considerate as possible and because I'm not necessarily trying to make a statement, I usually re-mask well before anyone gets to that six foot zone. I'll also put it on to move to the next aisle, in case I encounter someone within six feet who's not in my current view. I always wear it during checkout. In other words, I cover my nose and mouth whenever I'm within six feet of another person--JUST LIKE THE GOVERNOR SAID. But that's the extent to which I'll comply. I'm not willing to put up with discomfort and ill effects on my health so that other people can "feel safe". To be clear, IF compelling evidence existed, showing that mask wearing DID help, my opinions and my actions would be different.

Please do not take my judgments and opinions as a political statement. I'm so over the politics of this entire thing and don't want to alienate any of my fellow PSers.

 

[missy]

I rarely post on Hangout, mostly because I spend way too much time on PS as it is. I also don't like political discussions because they always seem to denigrate into angry verbal boxing matches. I do want to comment on the-mandatory face mask policy, though. So here I go, dipping my toe in the swirling waters of this thread. I'm posting a link to commentary by two respiratory experts, citing many referenced studies, critiques and articles--52 of them to be exact. They present coherent, well-documented arguments explaining why masks are essentially ineffective. I encourage anyone with an open mind to read the article, look at the evidence and make up your own mind. It's a long article, but well worth the read. I would happily review a similar article with similar documentation that substantially supports the ubiquitous use of face masks in public as a coherent, logical policy.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data

www.cidrap.umn.edu

My background is in biochemistry and allied health (B.S. double major--biology and statistics; two M.S.degrees, one in biochemistry, the other in audiology; no PhD, so not an "expert" in any field). I teach high school now, but I worked for many years as a research associate and clinician in three different major medical centers. I feel very comfortable reading the actual studies referenced in articles like this. I confess I didn't read all of them, just the major ones, which I found to be well done and convincing. The "studies" referenced in many news articles are based on modeling and are, for the most part, statistical trash. Generally, they're done to influence people, not advance science. Models are useful to explain phenomena, but as far as predicting outcomes? Not so much. Masks, particularly homemade ones, don't work. They're not comfortable or healthy to wear for any significant period of time, and are essentially ineffective in preventing the spread of viruses. The logic used by the politicians and bureaucrats who have foisted this policy on people is insubstantial, contradictory and not based on convincing scientific evidence (at least in my view, YMMV). We've been told that "it'll help slow the spread". Politicians and bureaucrats have provided plenty of platitudes, but no compelling evidence for that assertion.

To anyone who feels more comfortable wearing a mask--for whatever reason-- I fully support your right to do so. I live in a state that has mandated "any person in a public place ... who is unable to or does not maintain a safe social distance of approximately six feet from every other person shall cover their mouth and nose with a mask or cloth face covering", Those are the actual words from the governor's decree. I personally refuse to wear a mask outside. I feel like I'm suffocating with it on. It makes me feel panicked and anxious. It's not healthy for me to breathe in my own exhalation for extended periods of time. And yes, it is a complete infringement on my right to BREATHE AIR unmolested. In the grocery store, if I'm alone in the aisle, I let the mask hang from one ear loop. When someone enters the aisle and is moving towards me, I'll put it over my nose and mouth and loop it over my other ear. Because I want to be as considerate as possible and because I'm not necessarily trying to make a statement, I usually re-mask well before anyone gets to that six foot zone. I'll also put it on to move to the next aisle, in case I encounter someone within six feet who's not in my current view. I always wear it during checkout. In other words, I cover my nose and mouth whenever I'm within six feet of another person--JUST LIKE THE GOVERNOR SAID. But that's the extent to which I'll comply. I'm not willing to put up with discomfort and ill effects on my health so that other people can "feel safe". To be clear, IF compelling evidence existed, showing that mask wearing DID help, my opinions and my actions would be different.

Please do not take my judgments and opinions as a political statement. I'm so over the politics of this entire thing and don't want to alienate any of my fellow PSers.

Thanks for sharing and I am looking forward to reading your link when I have time and am able to concentrate. I appreciate you sharing. I think evidence can be found for both.

Masks help stop the spread of coronavirus – the science is simple and I’m one of 100 experts urging governors to require public mask-wearing

Recommendations around mask usage are confusing. The science isn’t. Evidence shows that masks are extremely effective to slow the coronavirus and may be the best tool available right now to fight it.

theconversation.com

I’m with you I’m that I struggle to breathe with it on but I limit the time I’m around others thereby needing a mask. I wear it to protect others. Many of us are asymptomatic with Covid 19 so imo it’s important wear when around others.

 

[Tekate]

Your interpretation is wrong.. who said people were retiring? pointer or you are blowing this out of nowhere.

If your fellow citizens aren't working they cannot for you or me or anyone, so WHO's paying?

Have you read about anyone who's RETIRED and now is having their mortgage paid by the govenrnment?

If you READ you will know that this is a temporary fix to help AMERICANS who cannot work right now through the worst part of this horrid virus.

We are 'helping' businesses right? why not assist those people who have made America what it is or rather was before Trump.

IOW, Anyone can chose to retire now!.Let my fellow citizens pay my monthly mortgage ...

 

[Tekate]

Good Lord are you calling me ignorant???? I hope not, if so then I will have to complain to management, we are not allowed to do this!

You need to relax.. sit back and chill. Goodness.

It’s a ridiculous and ignorant assumption on your part that I don’t care about infecting others, considering most of my family members are “COVID-fragile” but you didn't bother to ask. But to correct your misstatements: No, “flatten the curve” was NEVER sold to Americans as meaning “wear a mask” because when FTC/SIP became a thing, the guidance re: mask wearing for non-medical professionals was that it was not helpful/necessary/required. It wasn’t until a few weeks later that it even became suggested. ”Flatten the curve” was also NEVER sold to Americans as “stay home/inside until its safe to come out for ALL Americans”. It was to prevent hospitals from being over-run -- period. Guess what ... they aren’t overrun ... and in NYC - ground zero - they barely used the medical facilities/ship provided by the Fed Govt and Samaritans Purse ... instead, they shipped seniors off to nursing homes to infect/kill others. But sure, keep feeling like your government has your best interests in mind.

This has now become a non-stop moving of the goal-posts with massive government overreach and abuse of power. I read that some yahoo in CA wants people to “stay home until there is a cure”. Are you kidding me? If “you“ wish to stay inside forever, have at it ... but “your” fear doesn’t overrule others’ rights to go back to their jobs/businesses/livelihoods, regardless of how big a group is chanting about it or how repetitively they do so. Does it suck that some people don’t have a choice - like my parents/in-laws - yes. But they aren’t pitching a fit because they are also largely dependent on others getting back to work to provide/deliver services they need. Life isn’t fair, some people have conditions or have reached an age that make them more fragile than others; it sucks, but the world does not stop revolving.

The fear about over-running hospitals is largely passed for most states; and the goal posts do not need to keep moving unless there is data proving (not hypothesizing) a need to revert backward - and they need to be transparent about publishing it vs. just citing it when launching the next extension of SIP.

Risk is inherent to our way of life; we all get to choose what is best for our situations. You can drive a car or not drive a car; take the train/plane or not; go to a grocery store or have someone else go for you or have items delivered. And I respect all the medical workers on the “front lines” who are helping save lives, but I find it unethical and hypocritical to go so far as shame and lecture people to “not take risks“ when they always make darn sure to have patients sign those waivers for risky medical procedures ... procedures that help pay their bills. So spare me the lecturing (especially on a forum when you’re not that persons physician) about what risks are/are not acceptable when you aren’t paying that person’s bills, feeding their family, nor responsible for their employees trying to do the same.

States are welcome to keep giving people unlimited income to stay home until they decide the coast is clear, but that’s not a Federal responsibility. Governors are responsible for their states’ citizens since they are the ones exerting so much control over them.

I asked earlier for someone to post the law - from any state - citing failure to wear a mask as “criminal assault”; I’m still waiting ...

 

[Queenie60]

I rarely post on Hangout, mostly because I spend way too much time on PS as it is. I also don't like political discussions because they always seem to denigrate into angry verbal boxing matches. I do want to comment on the-mandatory face mask policy, though. So here I go, dipping my toe in the swirling waters of this thread. I'm posting a link to commentary by two respiratory experts, citing many referenced studies, critiques and articles--52 of them to be exact. They present coherent, well-documented arguments explaining why masks are essentially ineffective. I encourage anyone with an open mind to read the article, look at the evidence and make up your own mind. It's a long article, but well worth the read. I would happily review a similar article with similar documentation that substantially supports the ubiquitous use of face masks in public as a coherent, logical policy.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data

www.cidrap.umn.edu

My background is in biochemistry and allied health (B.S. double major--biology and statistics; two M.S.degrees, one in biochemistry, the other in audiology; no PhD, so not an "expert" in any field). I teach high school now, but I worked for many years as a research associate and clinician in three different major medical centers. I feel very comfortable reading the actual studies referenced in articles like this. I confess I didn't read all of them, just the major ones, which I found to be well done and convincing. The "studies" referenced in many news articles are based on modeling and are, for the most part, statistical trash. Generally, they're done to influence people, not advance science. Models are useful to explain phenomena, but as far as predicting outcomes? Not so much. Masks, particularly homemade ones, don't work. They're not comfortable or healthy to wear for any significant period of time, and are essentially ineffective in preventing the spread of viruses. The logic used by the politicians and bureaucrats who have foisted this policy on people is insubstantial, contradictory and not based on convincing scientific evidence (at least in my view, YMMV). We've been told that "it'll help slow the spread". Politicians and bureaucrats have provided plenty of platitudes, but no compelling evidence for that assertion.

To anyone who feels more comfortable wearing a mask--for whatever reason-- I fully support your right to do so. I live in a state that has mandated "any person in a public place ... who is unable to or does not maintain a safe social distance of approximately six feet from every other person shall cover their mouth and nose with a mask or cloth face covering", Those are the actual words from the governor's decree. I personally refuse to wear a mask outside. I feel like I'm suffocating with it on. It makes me feel panicked and anxious. It's not healthy for me to breathe in my own exhalation for extended periods of time. And yes, it is a complete infringement on my right to BREATHE AIR unmolested. In the grocery store, if I'm alone in the aisle, I let the mask hang from one ear loop. When someone enters the aisle and is moving towards me, I'll put it over my nose and mouth and loop it over my other ear. Because I want to be as considerate as possible and because I'm not necessarily trying to make a statement, I usually re-mask well before anyone gets to that six foot zone. I'll also put it on to move to the next aisle, in case I encounter someone within six feet who's not in my current view. I always wear it during checkout. In other words, I cover my nose and mouth whenever I'm within six feet of another person--JUST LIKE THE GOVERNOR SAID. But that's the extent to which I'll comply. I'm not willing to put up with discomfort and ill effects on my health so that other people can "feel safe". To be clear, IF compelling evidence existed, showing that mask wearing DID help, my opinions and my actions would be different.

Please do not take my judgments and opinions as a political statement. I'm so over the politics of this entire thing and don't want to alienate any of my fellow PSers.

Thank you for sharing this article. I skimmed through it however, will take more time later today to concentrate on this information. Much appreciated.