Well, Now Brett Kavanaugh Can Face His Accuser

[the_mother_thing]

Everything you write shows your true feelings. You wrote the “alleged victim”.

You make my blood boil with some of your comments Jenn.

That I choose to presume innocence for all involved and use the term ‘alleged’ until hearing the facts makes your blood boil?

Again, I hope you are never chosen to sit on a jury if you cannot remain objective and impartial in a case.

You are correct @soxfan . Jenn took her comment and twisted it against Ms Ford.

No, I didn’t. I’m sorry your blood is boiling so much that it’s skewing your reading comprehension. I stated and punctuated my statement very carefully to not suggest Hirono said that about Ford. I said I was using her words.

Perhaps you should check out that ignore button if you cannot control your emotions reading my comments.

 

[Calliecake]

Jenn, I’m speechless reading some of your posts. Just WOW.

Do you realize this isn’t political for some of the posters here?

 

[redwood66]

I have sons too, I don't worry about them because 1) I taught them from when they were very young if a girl says no she means NO. If my sons did things similar to what Trump/Kavanaugh have alleged to have done, I would expect my sons to go to jail. If a girl just accuses my son(s) of a rape then I expect a trial. If by a due process you mean a charge and trial I am all for it, but at that time he should step aside, it isn't as though Trump is going to nominate a moderate judge like Merrick Garland, who was praised by republicans and demorats. But conservatives want Kavanaugh so badly it is scary. So let's put aside Kavanaugh and get another nominee.

I have never known anyone who was accused of rape, attack. I don't know the stats on how many of them are lies, but I would venture a guess, not many.

Why should he be put aside with this single situation? Because you believe her? That isn't how it works. Frankly if she doesn't come forward to testify then the vote should go forward as she was allowed the opportunity but didn't take it.

 

[lovedogs]

Unless you are a witness, the alleged victim, or accused, why would you immediately rush to either ‘side’ and just believe what they say? That is the point, that people accused of crimes in this country are innocent until found guilty in court by a judge or jury.

I hope to God - if you feel differently - that you are NEVER called to Jury duty.

And I hope you gain some empathy, self awareness, and understanding. But I'm doubtful either of us will get what we want. Let's agree to ignore each other, or else I fear this will quickly devolve further and I have no desire to ever engage with you or see your posts again, as they disgust and upset me.

 

[Tekate]

Imagine that you are in a place you know your parents wouldn't want you to be because you were with boys that who were 18 and you were 14.. imagine you go to a parochial school and imagine you have no clue that anything will happen to you except get drunk and have a make out session with your boyfriend and imagine something really terrible goes down and you are slapped a few times and something painful happens.. imagine it's 1967 and you can't tell because somehow some way you know it will be YOUR fault, that YOU shouldn't have been drinking at 14, that you knew you shouldn't be there, YOUR parents would be ashamed in your town and ashamed of YOU, everyone of the kids in your class would know and forever be marked with a scarlet letter W for whore because everyone knows your mom and dad drink say and you are lower class so some how it's YOUR fault.. Let me tell you how lucky you feel when you aren't pregnant, let me tell YOU how horrible, disgusted, sad, depressed, angst written, angry you feel your whole life, forever. I do not think it's possible sometimes to surmount these types of mountains at the time to report, boys and men always have the upper hand because they just do. I'd like to say today seems better but then I don't know everyone's story and I had sons Imagine wanting it all to go away but it never does.

I imagine you have never been present for a rape kit. Or for the kinds of questions that get asked about your character, your sexual behavior, your credibility - most often with a condescending, dismissive, and disbelieving tone. I imagine you have no idea how humiliating, dehumanizing, and often physically painful the process of reporting an assault is, or how rarely charges are pressed or how rarely convictions are obtained even if women do go forward. I imagine you have no idea how awful and life destroying the act of going through a multi-year trial is, where you can never move on, never find your normal, never forget that you are being attacked and revictimized at every stage along the way. Not to mention the derailment of education, career, family that this represents.

I also imagine that you have no idea of the psychological trauma which is occurring at the same time that you’re supposed to be bravely standing up and doing what people who have no idea what they’re talking about seem to assume is the ‘right’ thing for you to do. Nightmares, flashbacks, feelings of derealization, depersonalization, and dissociated terror. Not to mention the fact that trauma almost universally creates an intense, unreasonable, and intractable sense of guilt and shame. Of having somehow caused this horrific thing to have happened to you. Of wanting nothing more than to try to pretend it didn’t happen to you. Of wanting to protect your family from the pain of learning what has happened to you. Of desperately wanting to go back to being the person that you were the day before: The one who wasn’t violated. The one who isn’t afraid all the time. The one who doesn’t feel gross and disgusting and ashamed. Of desperately trying not to think about it because it is physically painful to do so. I imagine you've never been in a therapy room with someone 20 years later who still can’t speak about the event without retching. Who can’t think about what happened without reliving every sound, smell, bodily sensation, and every physical and psychological violation that occurred.

And in the US, if it’s a wealthy, popular, athletic boy who assaulted you, the reality is that you’ll also face the wrath and scorn and disbelief of people who know nothing about what happened but who will focus more on ‘not ruining the life of an upstanding citizen’ than worrying about the harm done to you, the victim, and your life. Who will think nothing of defaming you and threatening you on the Internet, leaving you constantly afraid that some nut job is going to actually do what terrible thing they've said behind an anonymous username. Because women don’t matter, and sadly, women value each other the least when these things happen. We choose to believe the men. We choose to call the victims liars. We choose to blame them for being drunk, or ‘easy,’ or for being where they shouldn’t have been. And the more socially conservative women are, the worse this gets.

Until women stop being so brainwashed in the cult of men being more credible, more important, more *valuable,* we will keep ourselves down in this muck. You saw it with Trump. Grab her by the pussy meant nothing, the reports of assaults meant nothing, the lecherous behavior towards teenaged girls in the pagents that he owned meant nothing, the grossly indecent way he conducted himself with women meant nothing. Why? Because taking away the reproductive rights of other women was so important? Because removing access to reliable birth control that doesn’t require the consent of a man is such a good idea? Because anyone still believes that abstinence education works? (And who does that hurt? Men? I think not). It never fails to surprise me how far some women will go to vote against their own best interests.

So brave as this woman is, credible as she may be, this will mean nothing. If the kid who was so drunk that he couldn’t stand upright can’t remember anything happening, we should believe him when he says that nothing happened, right? If Kavanuagh is never polygraphed but denies that this happened, we should believe him too, right? Because we shouldn’t ‘ruin’ men’s all important narcissistic pursuit of (insert high status activity of some kind here) because of the inconvenience of there having been women who were hurt and victimized by them. Yeah, that’s right, because they’re men. So they count more.

Feminist rant over. It’s on deaf ears anyway. Enjoy living in Gilead.

 

[lovedogs]

Imagine that you are in a place you know your parents wouldn't want you to be because you were with boys that who were 18 and you were 14.. imagine you go to a parochial school and imagine you have no clue that anything will happen to you except get drunk and have a make out session with your boyfriend and imagine something really terrible goes down and you are slapped a few times and something painful happens.. imagine it's 1967 and you can't tell because somehow some way you know it will be YOUR fault, that YOU shouldn't have been drinking at 14, that you knew you shouldn't be there, YOUR parents would be ashamed in your town and ashamed of YOU, everyone of the kids in your class would know and forever be marked with a scarlet letter W for whore because everyone knows your mom and dad drink say and you are lower class so some how it's YOUR fault.. Let me tell you how lucky you feel when you aren't pregnant, let me tell YOU how horrible, disgusted, sad, depressed, angst written, angry you feel your whole life, forever. I do not think it's possible sometimes to surmount these types of mountains at the time to report, boys and men always have the upper hand because they just do. I'd like to say today seems better but then I don't know everyone's story and I had sons Imagine wanting it all to go away but it never does.

Yes, all of this .

 

[redwood66]

Imagine that you are in a place you know your parents wouldn't want you to be because you were with boys that who were 18 and you were 14.. imagine you go to a parochial school and imagine you have no clue that anything will happen to you except get drunk and have a make out session with your boyfriend and imagine something really terrible goes down and you are slapped a few times and something painful happens.. imagine it's 1967 and you can't tell because somehow some way you know it will be YOUR fault, that YOU shouldn't have been drinking at 14, that you knew you shouldn't be there, YOUR parents would be ashamed in your town and ashamed of YOU, everyone of the kids in your class would know and forever be marked with a scarlet letter W for whore because everyone knows your mom and dad drink say and you are lower class so some how it's YOUR fault.. Let me tell you how lucky you feel when you aren't pregnant, let me tell YOU how horrible, disgusted, sad, depressed, angst written, angry you feel your whole life, forever. I do not think it's possible sometimes to surmount these types of mountains at the time to report, boys and men always have the upper hand because they just do. I'd like to say today seems better but then I don't know everyone's story and I had sons Imagine wanting it all to go away but it never does.

You are a strong woman my friend.

 

[lovedogs]

You are a strong woman my friend.

We 100000% on this point!

 

[JPie]

Imagine that you are in a place you know your parents wouldn't want you to be because you were with boys that who were 18 and you were 14.. imagine you go to a parochial school and imagine you have no clue that anything will happen to you except get drunk and have a make out session with your boyfriend and imagine something really terrible goes down and you are slapped a few times and something painful happens.. imagine it's 1967 and you can't tell because somehow some way you know it will be YOUR fault, that YOU shouldn't have been drinking at 14, that you knew you shouldn't be there, YOUR parents would be ashamed in your town and ashamed of YOU, everyone of the kids in your class would know and forever be marked with a scarlet letter W for whore because everyone knows your mom and dad drink say and you are lower class so some how it's YOUR fault.. Let me tell you how lucky you feel when you aren't pregnant, let me tell YOU how horrible, disgusted, sad, depressed, angst written, angry you feel your whole life, forever. I do not think it's possible sometimes to surmount these types of mountains at the time to report, boys and men always have the upper hand because they just do. I'd like to say today seems better but then I don't know everyone's story and I had sons Imagine wanting it all to go away but it never does.

And imagine that if you came forward now, then other women will question why you waited all this time, and tell you you're selfish for not reporting the crime immediately after it happened.

 

[House Cat]

And imagine that if you came forward now, then other women will question why you waited all this time, and tell you you're selfish for not reporting the crime immediately after it happened.

1000%!!

 

[OreoRosies86]

And imagine that if you came forward now, then other women will question why you waited all this time, and tell you you're selfish for not reporting the crime immediately after it happened.

Those women are unrepentantly complicit in rape culture.

 

[Calliecake]

You are a strong woman my friend.

So Tekate is a strong woman and Ms Ford is being used by politicians??? It hasn’t occurred to you that Ms Ford is speaking her truth? Ms Ford and Tekate were a year apart in age when they were assaulted. Do you doubt Tekate?


I’m sorry you went thru this Tekate.

 

[OreoRosies86]

So Tekate is a strong woman and Ms Ford is being used by politicians??? It hasn’t occurred to you that Ms Ford is speaking her truth? Ms Ford and Tekate were a year apart in age when they were assaulted. Do you doubt Tekate?


I’m sorry you went thru this Tekate.

Color me confused as well. It's ok to sympathize with survivors of sexual assault, without litigious actions backing their claim, as long as they are not a perceived political pawn?

 

[the_mother_thing]

Jenn, I’m speechless reading some of your posts. Just WOW.

Do you realize this isn’t political for some of the posters here?

I’m not ‘making it political’ for ‘some of the posters’, and I’m not even commenting on their personal experiences. This thread/topic - about Kavanaugh and Ford’s allegations - by virtue of it being a political process to nominate him, is ‘political’. It’s your choice (and others’) to participate in it or not. I’m not personally attacking anyone or using their ‘experience’ to make a point; I’m sticking to the topic at hand. It is not my goal to ‘trigger’ someone here, despite what you might think.

I sincerely mean this in the nicest way possible: if it’s genuinely upsetting you or someone else to read about the Kav/Ford situation or participate in the discussion here, then perhaps this topic is too sensitive for you/others to participate in. That’s not an effort to shut down anyone’s opinions or participation in the discussion - everyone is free to do as they wish. But you can’t talk about this particular situation about a political nominee without the politics that brought it to the forefront of news in the first place.

And I hope you gain some empathy, self awareness, and understanding. But I'm doubtful either of us will get what we want. Let's agree to ignore each other, or else I fear this will quickly devolve further and I have no desire to ever engage with you or see your posts again, as they disgust and upset me.

Whatever you need to do for you, by all means, please just do it. Put me on ignore if you want. I’m not personally attacking you, suggesting you lack anything, that you’re some women-hating monster, etc. simply because we disagree. In fact, I don’t even acknowledge your comments unless you direct them/respond to me.

You both (and others) ask questions purporting to try and understand others’ views/positions, we answer, and then you immediately jump on the attack-wagon and throw out labels when you don’t like what you hear/read or what words someone chooses when they respond. SSDD.

If you/Callie/et al wish to start a thread specifically talking about your personal experiences/opinions related to sexual abuse, I promise to respectfully stay out of it. But this thread isn’t about ‘you’ or your personal experiences; it’s about a political process pertaining to our elected officials and the accusations being made toward one of them, and my comments have been entirely about that/them/this scenario.

 

[Calliecake]

You do realize the reason we are discussing Kavanaugh and the reason his confirmation hearing is not happening this week is because he has been accused of sexual assault. Have you read the title of this thread?

While you slam women who have not come forward, others here have tried to explain the reasons she may have chose not to come forward. Considering most of us here are women, is it really surprising that some here would try to help you see this from a woman who was assaulted point of view?

 

[OboeGal]

I imagine you have never been present for a rape kit. Or for the kinds of questions that get asked about your character, your sexual behavior, your credibility - most often with a condescending, dismissive, and disbelieving tone. I imagine you have no idea how humiliating, dehumanizing, and often physically painful the process of reporting an assault is, or how rarely charges are pressed or how rarely convictions are obtained even if women do go forward. I imagine you have no idea how awful and life destroying the act of going through a multi-year trial is, where you can never move on, never find your normal, never forget that you are being attacked and revictimized at every stage along the way. Not to mention the derailment of education, career, family that this represents.

I also imagine that you have no idea of the psychological trauma which is occurring at the same time that you’re supposed to be bravely standing up and doing what people who have no idea what they’re talking about seem to assume is the ‘right’ thing for you to do. Nightmares, flashbacks, feelings of derealization, depersonalization, and dissociated terror. Not to mention the fact that trauma almost universally creates an intense, unreasonable, and intractable sense of guilt and shame. Of having somehow caused this horrific thing to have happened to you. Of wanting nothing more than to try to pretend it didn’t happen to you. Of wanting to protect your family from the pain of learning what has happened to you. Of desperately wanting to go back to being the person that you were the day before: The one who wasn’t violated. The one who isn’t afraid all the time. The one who doesn’t feel gross and disgusting and ashamed. Of desperately trying not to think about it because it is physically painful to do so. I imagine you've never been in a therapy room with someone 20 years later who still can’t speak about the event without retching. Who can’t think about what happened without reliving every sound, smell, bodily sensation, and every physical and psychological violation that occurred.

And in the US, if it’s a wealthy, popular, athletic boy who assaulted you, the reality is that you’ll also face the wrath and scorn and disbelief of people who know nothing about what happened but who will focus more on ‘not ruining the life of an upstanding citizen’ than worrying about the harm done to you, the victim, and your life. Who will think nothing of defaming you and threatening you on the Internet, leaving you constantly afraid that some nut job is going to actually do what terrible thing they've said behind an anonymous username. Because women don’t matter, and sadly, women value each other the least when these things happen. We choose to believe the men. We choose to call the victims liars. We choose to blame them for being drunk, or ‘easy,’ or for being where they shouldn’t have been. And the more socially conservative women are, the worse this gets.

Until women stop being so brainwashed in the cult of men being more credible, more important, more *valuable,* we will keep ourselves down in this muck. You saw it with Trump. Grab her by the pussy meant nothing, the reports of assaults meant nothing, the lecherous behavior towards teenaged girls in the pagents that he owned meant nothing, the grossly indecent way he conducted himself with women meant nothing. Why? Because taking away the reproductive rights of other women was so important? Because removing access to reliable birth control that doesn’t require the consent of a man is such a good idea? Because anyone still believes that abstinence education works? (And who does that hurt? Men? I think not). It never fails to surprise me how far some women will go to vote against their own best interests.

So brave as this woman is, credible as she may be, this will mean nothing. If the kid who was so drunk that he couldn’t stand upright can’t remember anything happening, we should believe him when he says that nothing happened, right? If Kavanuagh is never polygraphed but denies that this happened, we should believe him too, right? Because we shouldn’t ‘ruin’ men’s all important narcissistic pursuit of (insert high status activity of some kind here) because of the inconvenience of there having been women who were hurt and victimized by them. Yeah, that’s right, because they’re men. So they count more.

Feminist rant over. It’s on deaf ears anyway. Enjoy living in Gilead.

As a women who was sexually assaulted as a child and raped as an adult, I cannot thank you enough for speaking my truth so eloquently. I have been watching this all play out in stunned distress, unable to find my words. Even some who have experienced such things are not in a place to judge how another person responds to or copes with such an experience, because each individual responds differently on the basis of their own personality, mental health status, physical health status, and prior life experiences and traumas. I did not go to the police when I was raped for many reasons, not the least of which was that it triggered all the PTSD of my childhood assaults to such an extent that I was literally unable to function. I could not eat; I could not sleep; I could not go to work....if I had let anyone know at the time what had happened, I probably would have been hospitalized. In addition, I had been dating this man and had previously been sexually active with him. No one else was there. It would have been "he said/she said" in what was publicly known to others as a dating relationship. There was no hope of any justice, if I had even been capable of seeking it.

To this day, though, there is a voice within me that tells me I should be ashamed of myself - that I was "weak" - that I let other women down - even though I objectively know that I did the absolute best that I could do at the time. It frankly torments me still, and I can barely type this on a thread where I am anonymous for fear of inviting judgement that I didn't do it "the right way" then. I cannot imagine what this women is experiencing bringing this out now. Others, of either side, may have politicized her experiences - which is disgusting - but I don't for a minute believe she herself is doing this now because "it's handy timing" or for some political goal - because, no matter what happens with the nominee, she will lose. She will be judged so harshly.

I beg of those who read my words to search within for some compassion, some empathy for the experiences of others that differ from your own.

 

[Tekate]

You are lucky to never have anything to contribute to the 'story'. A person's story, life and feelings are the basis for Prof. Ford's lack of speaking to authorities, family and friends 38 years ago.. that scarlet W is hard to wear.

All of us make decisions based on life experiences. Unless we are all are lawyers then the law is something we have to read up on and understand. Take my experience(s)(btw) they make me more empathetic to certain things in life.. a person uses their experience to show another why they think they way they do. If you think it's a person's duty to report an attack or rape so it does not happen again, I can say to you, with experience, that there might be reasons why they can't, whether it's right or wrong in your eyes it's a personal decision and fear. Different times create different circumstances. Sometimes things are too traumatic to speak of. It may not be correct but they just cannot.

I cannot say unequivocally that the way you think is wrong, but as thinking, moral humans it might behoove us to take into consideration why a person is afraid to speak, in not doing so we belittle the person who may have experience something so traumatic they can't speak of it. BUT the law must be followed.

I’m not ‘making it political’ for ‘some of the posters’, and I’m not even commenting on their personal experiences. This thread/topic - about Kavanaugh and Ford’s allegations - by virtue of it being a political process to nominate him, is ‘political’. It’s your choice (and others’) to participate in it or not. I’m not personally attacking anyone or using their ‘experience’ to make a point; I’m sticking to the topic at hand. It is not my goal to ‘trigger’ someone here, despite what you might think.

I sincerely mean this in the nicest way possible: if it’s genuinely upsetting you or someone else to read about the Kav/Ford situation or participate in the discussion here, then perhaps this topic is too sensitive for you/others to participate in. That’s not an effort to shut down anyone’s opinions or participation in the discussion - everyone is free to do as they wish. But you can’t talk about this particular situation about a political nominee without the politics that brought it to the forefront of news in the first place.



Whatever you need to do for you, by all means, please just do it. Put me on ignore if you want. I’m not personally attacking you, suggesting you lack anything, that you’re some women-hating monster, etc. simply because we disagree. In fact, I don’t even acknowledge your comments unless you direct them/respond to me.

You both (and others) ask questions purporting to try and understand others’ views/positions, we answer, and then you immediately jump on the attack-wagon and throw out labels when you don’t like what you hear/read or what words someone chooses when they respond. SSDD.

If you/Callie/et al wish to start a thread specifically talking about your personal experiences/opinions related to sexual abuse, I promise to respectfully stay out of it. But this thread isn’t about ‘you’ or your personal experiences; it’s about a political process pertaining to our elected officials and the accusations being made toward one of them, and my comments have been entirely about that/them/this scenario.

 

[AGBF]

And I hope you gain some empathy, self awareness, and understanding.

Those qualities are hard won for anyone. Empathy is not always something a person can "gain" later in life unless he has had early bonds of love with an empathetic caretaker who raised him making demands upon those bonds of love and helping him to form a conscience in very early life (the first five years). (I know I am preaching to the choir, lovedogs, as you are a professional psychologist.)

Self-awareness can be gained to some extent to social interaction with others if one has a flexible enough character to use those interactions, but even if one does it is no replacement for psychodynamic psychotherapy. That is by far the best way to gain self-awareness.

No one is aware of what he is really feeling and what is really driving him. His unconscious drives are hidden from him and he gets only glimpses of them. Someone who has undergone psychoanalysis or psychodynamic psychotherapy may see glimpses of his unconscious from time to time. Most of us recognize our "Freudian slips" when they are really blatant, but miss others.

(I didn't hang up my...uh.."psychoanalysis clipboard". I take it that is where one is supposed to post the crib notes on Freud 101 to remind oneself what "penis envy" and "sibling rivalry" are.)

AGBF

 

[lovedogs]

As a women who was sexually assaulted as a child and raped as an adult, I cannot thank you enough for speaking my truth so eloquently. I have been watching this all play out in stunned distress, unable to find my words. Even some who have experienced such things are not in a place to judge how another person responds to or copes with such an experience, because each individual responds differently on the basis of their own personality, mental health status, physical health status, and prior life experiences and traumas. I did not go to the police when I was raped for many reasons, not the least of which was that it triggered all the PTSD of my childhood assaults to such an extent that I was literally unable to function. I could not eat; I could not sleep; I could not go to work....if I had let anyone know at the time what had happened, I probably would have been hospitalized. In addition, I had been dating this man and had previously been sexually active with him. No one else was there. It would have been "he said/she said" in what was publicly known to others as a dating relationship. There was no hope of any justice, if I had even been capable of seeking it.

To this day, though, there is a voice within me that tells me I should be ashamed of myself - that I was "weak" - that I let other women down - even though I objectively know that I did the absolute best that I could do at the time. It frankly torments me still, and I can barely type this on a thread where I am anonymous for fear of inviting judgement that I didn't do it "the right way" then. I cannot imagine what this women is experiencing bringing this out now. Others, of either side, may have politicized her experiences - which is disgusting - but I don't for a minute believe she herself is doing this now because "it's handy timing" or for some political goal - because, no matter what happens with the nominee, she will lose. She will be judged so harshly.

I beg of those who read my words to search within for some compassion, some empathy for the experiences of others that differ from your own.

You are very brave for writing this. I know it's hard, and I relate more than I'd like to your experience as an adult. It's horrible, difficult, and stays with you (unfortunately). Know that almost all of us on this board read your story with compassion, understanding, and admiration of your strength. You did what was best for you given the circumstances, and NO ONE has the right to judge. If they think they do, they are wrong. Period. I just wanted to respond so you know that I "see" you, your post, and your experience.

 

[Tekate]

Why should he be put aside? Because women have been for time immemorial and it just continues the abuse she felt. I never said it should be put aside, why do you think she is lying? is the same as asking me why I think she isn't. I have considered that fact that she may be crazy to do this and therefore we need an investigation. Anita Hill had women who corroborated her story but yet she was treated horrendously - by men. Why can't the republicans wait?

Why should he be put aside with this single situation? Because you believe her? That isn't how it works. Frankly if she doesn't come forward to testify then the vote should go forward as she was allowed the opportunity but didn't take it.

 

[AGBF]

I wish you strength, OboeGal. I so often find it in women friends, both in my "real life" and in supportive female friends here on Pricescope. I hope you find it here now, too.

Hugs,
(((OboeGal)))
Deb

 

[OboeGal]

And I think this is a fundamental difference between libs and conservatives: feelings vs facts.

You JUST completely contradicted yourself. You just painted something as incredibly complex as the political, moral, and idealogical differences between two enormous groups of people, with all of their individual differences, as coming down to the simplest, most black-and-white, unnuanced representation that you could: liberals care more about feelings while conservatives care more about facts. There is nothing even remotely factual about that statement! That kind of black-and-white all-or-nothing thinking is a perfect example of feelings-based cognitive dissonance.

And it's BULLSHIT!

I'm as liberal as they come, as is my husband. I have several liberal friends and aquaintances. Several, as well as my husband and myself, have called for hearings where both sides can be heard. We all have expressed our desire that all the information come out so that we can deal with facts and try to come to the truth, whether it results in our preferred political outcome or not. I have spent my entire life dedicated to seeking two things: growth and truth. Even if that truth is scary or painful. Even if it goes against everything I was raised to believe, or had spent my entire life believing. My husband is an accomplished scientist. His life has been dedicated to seeking truth as well. The same is true of many, many liberals. We have all revised our conclusions when the facts led us there. We have voted for candidates from both sides of the aisle, on the basis of the best factual information we had about those candidates at the time, rather than straight "party loyalty". Your conclusions about all of us, painted with such a broad brush, are WRONG. They are not factual. And caring about feelings and having compassion and empathy can coexist with caring about facts and seeking truth. Both matter.

And frankly, that kind of painting of others in large groups, besides being incorrect factually, is in my opinion the kind of attitude that is helping to render this country so dysfunctional.

 

[redwood66]

So Tekate is a strong woman and Ms Ford is being used by politicians??? It hasn’t occurred to you that Ms Ford is speaking her truth? Ms Ford and Tekate were a year apart in age when they were assaulted. Do you doubt Tekate?


I’m sorry you went thru this Tekate.

I never said she couldn't speak her truth. The whole point seems to escape you with regard to presumption of innocence and you and Elliot cannot get your mind beyond your own little box. Tekate is not accusing anyone in public and affecting their career without being questioned. Were she doing that I would say the same thing to her that I am saying should happen in this case. All while having empathy for her because I can do both at the same time, respecting the rule of law and empathizing with victims of crime.

 

[redwood66]

Why should he be put aside? Because women have been for time immemorial and it just continues the abuse she felt. I never said it should be put aside, why do you think she is lying? is the same as asking me why I think she isn't. I have considered that fact that she may be crazy to do this and therefore we need an investigation. Anita Hill had women who corroborated her story but yet she was treated horrendously - by men. Why can't the republicans wait?

I have never said she was lying so why would you assume that? Why didn't the Dems bring this forth earlier so it could be investigated during the process? It appears she always intended to come out since she took a polygraph months ago. Who does that if they are not going to go public? There are too many problems with the whole thing to expect him to just drop out, which I am pretty sure they were hoping he would do.

I have a hard time with you saying he should be put aside because women have been for time immemorial. You require a sacrifice on the altar of women and he should be it? Even if we don't know if he is guilty of anything? That sounds quite medieval.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I never said she couldn't speak her truth. The whole point seems to escape you with regard to presumption of innocence and you and Elliot cannot get your mind beyond your own little box. Tekate is not accusing anyone in public and affecting their career without being questioned. Were she doing that I would say the same thing to her that I am saying should happen in this case. All while having empathy for her because I can do both at the same time, respecting the rule of law and empathizing with victims of crime.

When you literally clap like a seal for comments that call not reporting rape "selfish" you don't get to feign empathy for survivors later when people call you out for victim blaming. You might have empathy for survivors of sexual assault, but your actions here show otherwise. It's too bad really because I believe your political views are probably just way more pragmatic than most and that in and of itself is not bad; but to applaud comments that question why a woman doesn't step forward after her assault, call her a pawn when the man who allegedly assaulted her is potentially being placed in a position to overthrow women's reproductive rights is the exact opposite of empathy or pragmatism.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I will address posts where I am directly quoted or my name is mentioned but really this is going nowhere.

 

[OboeGal]

Imagine that you are in a place you know your parents wouldn't want you to be because you were with boys that who were 18 and you were 14.. imagine you go to a parochial school and imagine you have no clue that anything will happen to you except get drunk and have a make out session with your boyfriend and imagine something really terrible goes down and you are slapped a few times and something painful happens.. imagine it's 1967 and you can't tell because somehow some way you know it will be YOUR fault, that YOU shouldn't have been drinking at 14, that you knew you shouldn't be there, YOUR parents would be ashamed in your town and ashamed of YOU, everyone of the kids in your class would know and forever be marked with a scarlet letter W for whore because everyone knows your mom and dad drink say and you are lower class so some how it's YOUR fault.. Let me tell you how lucky you feel when you aren't pregnant, let me tell YOU how horrible, disgusted, sad, depressed, angst written, angry you feel your whole life, forever. I do not think it's possible sometimes to surmount these types of mountains at the time to report, boys and men always have the upper hand because they just do. I'd like to say today seems better but then I don't know everyone's story and I had sons Imagine wanting it all to go away but it never does.

I'm so sorry you had this experience. Thank you for speaking up and sharing. You are not alone.

 

[redwood66]

When you literally clap like a seal for comments that call not reporting rape "selfish" you don't get to feign empathy for survivors later when people call you out for victim blaming. You might have empathy for survivors of sexual assault, but your actions here show otherwise. It's too bad really because I believe your political views are probably just way more pragmatic than most and that in and of itself is not bad; but to applaud comments that question why a woman doesn't step forward after her assault, call her a pawn when the man who assaulted her is potentially being placed in a position to overthrow women's reproductive rights is the exact opposite of empathy or pragmatism.

It's a good thing neither of us cares what the other thinks. You are right speaking with you goes nowhere and is an utter waste of time.

 

[OreoRosies86]

It's a good thing neither of us cares what the other thinks. You are right speaking with you goes nowhere and is an utter waste of time.

Then stop throwing my name around, sweets

 

[redwood66]

Then stop throwing my name around, sweets

You made a comment to Callie that I was addressing. You said you were confused so I attempted to help you out. Won't bother next time.