Well, Now Brett Kavanaugh Can Face His Accuser

[Dancing Fire]

"His own case" = trumps own case

What case ?? . , All ya Dimms should stop dreaming.

 

[lovedogs]

What case ?? . , All ya Dimms should stop dreaming.

Yup, you're totally right. There's no case, no guilty pleas, no special council.

 

[Calliecake]

@the_mother_thing , Many of your comments on this thread are the very definition of victim blaming. They feel like a slap in the face to anyone who has experienced sexual assault. You know very little about how the majority of women process a sexual assault and the effects of this type of trauma.

The facts today are that only 310 out of 1000 woman who have been raped, report the crime. Of those 310 rapes, only 6 rapists will be incarcerated.

My guess is even fewer sexual assault cases were reported 35 years ago.

How would you feel if Ms Ford were your mother or your daughter? Would you want this man on the Supreme Court?

 

[AGBF]

Kavanaugh made seemingly playful speeches at both his high school and Yale about heavy drinking, but no one noticed anything amiss.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/18/us/Kavanaugh-binge-drinking-Yale-speech-.html

 

[asscherisme]

This twitter comment sums it up perfectly.

So to summarize, a confessed serial sexual predator nominated a man who is credibly accused of attempted rape to be the key vote to strip women of reproductive freedom.

Perfectly written, and so chilling. He should be removed from consideration

 

[tkyasx78]

I just finished writing both my senators asking them to request the president nominate someone who is not a liar and who may or may not have a very dark past he is currently lying about.

I think the attempted rape will be a he said she said thing. Unless his friend "flips" on kavanaugh there really is nothing more to debate. kavanaugh probably did it. He is not willing to take a lie detector and has hired a lawyer! He may or may not remember doing it. Without hard proof that he was there that night ( since he denied it ) or catching him in some other lie it will just traumatize an innocent woman and show that the republican senators have no ethics. This is nothing new. I do not doubt that kavanaugh would work to protect a criminal president and has already lied in front of the senate.

It is beyond me why kavanaugh is letting trump try to say he is a good guy though. As far as character witnesses go trump would be pretty close to the absolute bottom of the barrel.

 

[cmd2014]

Spare me the usual leftie lingo & labels; I can tune into MSNBC for that nonsense.

Is it WRONG to report a crime? Does it help women if you DON’T report a crime? Does it help keep a criminal off the streets/off the bench if you DON’T report a crime? Does it help prevent a rapist from violating other victims if you DON’T report a crime? I refuse to apologize for feeling that NOT reporting a serious crime such as assault or rape is a selfish decision, for all of the reasons I stated above. Mind you, I’m NOT saying it’s a wrong decision for the victim, but it is a selfish decision, nonetheless.

I imagine you have never been present for a rape kit. Or for the kinds of questions that get asked about your character, your sexual behavior, your credibility - most often with a condescending, dismissive, and disbelieving tone. I imagine you have no idea how humiliating, dehumanizing, and often physically painful the process of reporting an assault is, or how rarely charges are pressed or how rarely convictions are obtained even if women do go forward. I imagine you have no idea how awful and life destroying the act of going through a multi-year trial is, where you can never move on, never find your normal, never forget that you are being attacked and revictimized at every stage along the way. Not to mention the derailment of education, career, family that this represents.

I also imagine that you have no idea of the psychological trauma which is occurring at the same time that you’re supposed to be bravely standing up and doing what people who have no idea what they’re talking about seem to assume is the ‘right’ thing for you to do. Nightmares, flashbacks, feelings of derealization, depersonalization, and dissociated terror. Not to mention the fact that trauma almost universally creates an intense, unreasonable, and intractable sense of guilt and shame. Of having somehow caused this horrific thing to have happened to you. Of wanting nothing more than to try to pretend it didn’t happen to you. Of wanting to protect your family from the pain of learning what has happened to you. Of desperately wanting to go back to being the person that you were the day before: The one who wasn’t violated. The one who isn’t afraid all the time. The one who doesn’t feel gross and disgusting and ashamed. Of desperately trying not to think about it because it is physically painful to do so. I imagine you've never been in a therapy room with someone 20 years later who still can’t speak about the event without retching. Who can’t think about what happened without reliving every sound, smell, bodily sensation, and every physical and psychological violation that occurred.

And in the US, if it’s a wealthy, popular, athletic boy who assaulted you, the reality is that you’ll also face the wrath and scorn and disbelief of people who know nothing about what happened but who will focus more on ‘not ruining the life of an upstanding citizen’ than worrying about the harm done to you, the victim, and your life. Who will think nothing of defaming you and threatening you on the Internet, leaving you constantly afraid that some nut job is going to actually do what terrible thing they've said behind an anonymous username. Because women don’t matter, and sadly, women value each other the least when these things happen. We choose to believe the men. We choose to call the victims liars. We choose to blame them for being drunk, or ‘easy,’ or for being where they shouldn’t have been. And the more socially conservative women are, the worse this gets.

Until women stop being so brainwashed in the cult of men being more credible, more important, more *valuable,* we will keep ourselves down in this muck. You saw it with Trump. Grab her by the pussy meant nothing, the reports of assaults meant nothing, the lecherous behavior towards teenaged girls in the pagents that he owned meant nothing, the grossly indecent way he conducted himself with women meant nothing. Why? Because taking away the reproductive rights of other women was so important? Because removing access to reliable birth control that doesn’t require the consent of a man is such a good idea? Because anyone still believes that abstinence education works? (And who does that hurt? Men? I think not). It never fails to surprise me how far some women will go to vote against their own best interests.

So brave as this woman is, credible as she may be, this will mean nothing. If the kid who was so drunk that he couldn’t stand upright can’t remember anything happening, we should believe him when he says that nothing happened, right? If Kavanuagh is never polygraphed but denies that this happened, we should believe him too, right? Because we shouldn’t ‘ruin’ men’s all important narcissistic pursuit of (insert high status activity of some kind here) because of the inconvenience of there having been women who were hurt and victimized by them. Yeah, that’s right, because they’re men. So they count more.

Feminist rant over. It’s on deaf ears anyway. Enjoy living in Gilead.

 

[tkyasx78]

FWIW @cmd2014
I believe her. I hope everyone will write their senators and demand they stop assuming every woman is a liar and BELIEVE women. I have written mine tonight. My thoughts are with the brave woman who has had to uproot her family. I believe her.

kanvanaugh has not taken a polygraph and he has hired a lawyer. He is trying to follow trumps playbook - deny deny deny. His previous lies and current actions speak so loud I cannot believe a word he says.

 

[cmd2014]

FWIW @cmd2014
I believe her. I hope everyone will write their senators and demand they stop assuming every woman is a liar and BELIEVE women. I have written mine tonight. My thoughts are with the brave woman who has had to uproot her family. I believe her.

kanvanaugh has not taken a polygraph and he has hired a lawyer. He is trying to follow trumps playbook - deny deny deny. His previous lies and current actions speak so loud I cannot believe a word he says.

I actually think everyone believes her. Including the Republicans and every one of those 65 women who wrote the letter of support for Kavanuagh. I also think that it won’t matter. Just like everyone believed the allegations against Trump, and it did not matter. Be wealthy enough, white enough, and male enough in the US, and you can do whatever you want (even shoot someone on 5th Avenue) and people will turn a blind eye.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yup, you're totally right. There's no case, no guilty pleas, no special council.

So, Stormy is Russian? in the Dimms opinion = Russian collusion?.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Be wealthy enough, white enough, and male enough in the US, and you can do whatever you want (even shoot someone on 5th Avenue) and people will turn a blind eye.

Thanks for describing a liberal. FYI, The top 3 richest person in the world is white, male and liberal.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@the_mother_thingHow would you feel if Ms Ford were your mother or your daughter? Would you want this man on the Supreme Court?

Do you really want to know my answers here? I suspect you’ll just repeat the same ‘victim blaming’ accusations no matter what I say, so what difference does it really make. You and others - without knowing the facts - choose to assume a sexual assault accuser is always telling the truth, and - as evidenced in this thread - are ready with torches at the stake to light the man on fire. I choose to wait until I hear both sides of the story before seeing anyone’s life ruined - justifiably or not. And not just for cases of sexual assault, but all crimes. THAT is how our justice system works. And I think this is a fundamental difference between libs and conservatives: feelings vs facts.

IUntil women stop being so brainwashed in the cult of men being more credible, more important, more *valuable,* we will keep ourselves down in this muck.

So brave as this woman is, credible as she may be, this will mean nothing. If the kid who was so drunk that he couldn’t stand upright can’t remember anything happening, we should believe him when he says that nothing happened, right? If Kavanuagh is never polygraphed but denies that this happened, we should believe him too, right? Because we shouldn’t ‘ruin’ men’s all important narcissistic pursuit of (insert high status activity of some kind here) because of the inconvenience of there having been women who were hurt and victimized by them. Yeah, that’s right, because they’re men. So they count more.

You assume I view men as somehow ‘more vaulable’, and that is as far from the truth as it can get. I value FACTS. And in this case - and many like them where the alleged victim waits years, decades to report the crime - there are very few of any facts/evidence to make a fair and true judgement either way. So no - man, woman or purple dinosaur - I do not believe in jumping on some bully pulpit bandwagon that chooses to ignore facts and demonizes someone based on one side of the story. You can details

If Kavanaugh is found guilty in all of this, by all means, toss him off the bench/withdraw his nomination and let another nominee move up on the list. But with each passing news story that comes out about this, and each twist & tweet the left spin on it, it looks more and more to me like a smear campaign against a man because ‘Trump Trump Trump’ with Ford wearing puppet strings. I used to be of the ‘trust but verify’ mindset, but I no longer trust anything that spins out of D.C. nor a group of bloodthirsty misandrists.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Also, regarding this polygraph (since some are hanging their belief in Ford on that tidbit), it’s not clear that Ford ‘passed’. All I have seen was this statement in the WaPo article: "The results, which Katz provided to The Post, concluded that Ford was being truthful when she said a statement summarizing her allegations was accurate."

That does not mean ‘she passed’ to me. It reads to me the test found one statement Ford made to be accurate. What exactly was that statement? What about the rest of her statements, what were those results, and why didn’t WaPo publish them in their entirety since they have them? Or did they publish them somewhere, and I missed them?

We need ALL the facts; not just the ones cherry picked by the accuser’s attorney.

 

[House Cat]

Also, regarding this polygraph (since some are hanging their belief in Ford on that tidbit), it’s not clear that Ford ‘passed’. All I have seen was this statement in the WaPo article: "The results, which Katz provided to The Post, concluded that Ford was being truthful when she said a statement summarizing her allegations was accurate."

That does not mean ‘she passed’ to me. It reads to me the test found one statement Ford made to be accurate. What exactly was that statement? What about the rest of her statements, what were those results, and why didn’t WaPo publish them in their entirety since they have them? Or did they publish them somewhere, and I missed them?

We need ALL the facts; not just the ones cherry picked by the accuser’s attorney.

Liars who fudge polygraphs usually ask the FBI to investigate the case they’re lying about.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I actually think everyone believes her. Including the Republicans and every one of those 65 women who wrote the letter of support for Kavanuagh. I also think that it won’t matter. Just like everyone believed the allegations against Trump, and it did not matter. Be wealthy enough, white enough, and male enough in the US, and you can do whatever you want (even shoot someone on 5th Avenue) and people will turn a blind eye.

No one who voted for Trump cares about the repercussions of sexual asssult, preventing it, or protecting women from men who strip their right to choose away. So none of this will actually matter is correct.

 

[soxfan]

I don't get how anyone can not believe this woman. What does she POSSIBLY have to gain by by coming forward? Fleeing her home because her family has been threatened? Being called a liar by people on the SENATE- the people who run our country? What? TELL me why she would lie?

I hate Trump with every fiber of my being, but I can tell you I am terrified by his supporters and I don't even go up against some of them on facebook. They are truly the dregs of society. The lowest, most backward, revolting people I've ever had the displeasure to listen to. I would protect myself and my family rather than go up against that mob. She has balls of steel.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Liars who fudge polygraphs usually ask the FBI to investigate the case they’re lying about.

I didn’t say she fudged her polygraph results; I asked what the statement was that was noted to be ‘accurate’ and what the rest of the test questions/results were.

As to asking the FBI to investigate, THIS is just one more reason why I see this entire situation and Ford - purposefully or pawn - falling into the political motivation factor. What is there to investigate: she can’t remember key details, and the only other two people who ‘know’ have both denied it occurred. This just looks to me like another stall tactic in the long list of charades the left have played since the nomination.

I don't get how anyone can not believe this woman. What does she POSSIBLY have to gain by by coming forward? Fleeing her home because her family has been threatened? Being called a liar by people on the SENATE- the people who run our country? What? TELL me why she would lie?

I already stated some of the reasons her coming forward now seems sketchy to me up-thread. But if you really wonder why so many lack ‘warm fuzzies’ over her story & truthfulness, look no further than the Dems, who have made no secret of their plan to derail any & every thing this administration does, including Booker’s own shameful ‘Spartacus’ nothing-burger moment during the hearing. If you cannot see how this entire situation looks sketchy as hell, then nothing I say will help. As for the backlash on Ford, SHE chose her ‘moment’, not Trump voters. They’re reacting, just like Dems have done since the election of 2016.

 

[the_mother_thing]

No one who voted for Trump cares about the repercussions of sexual asssult, preventing it, or protecting women from men who strip their right to choose away. So none of this will actually matter is correct.

Keep beating that drum; it’s fared so well the last two years.

Making this about politics like you and Dems do just perpetuates the very thing you complain about, and is exactly why people are skeptical of Ford’s story ... so keep wearing the usual self-righteous flare while casting the usual, hypocritical misandristic drivel.

Contrary to you/dems’ thinking, having a vagina does NOT make you right, better, or more deserving of fairness or equality under the law.

 

[AGBF]

I am glad Dr. Ford asked for an FBI investigation before she was to testify. I hope that she refuses to testify without one being held. I would rather see Kavanaugh pushed through and confirmed than to see her eviscerated by that committee. I feel that the old, misogynist b*stards like Hatch, Grassley and Corker who think that giving a woman the right to speak at all is the chance of a lifetime for her and who do not care a fig for truth or justice, who want to rush this through although they let Merrick Garland twist in the wind for ten months should get their way, should be left with the consequences of their actions. Let the mid-term elections speak.

 

[AGBF]

Keep beating that drum; it’s fared so well the last two years.

Making this about politics like you and Dems do just perpetuates the very thing you complain about, and is exactly why people are skeptical of Ford’s story ... so keep wearing the usual self-righteous flare while casting the usual, hypocritical misandristic drivel.

Contrary to you/dems’ thinking, having a vagina does NOT make you right, better, or more deserving of fairness or equality under the law.

Yes, it did. Many more women will be elected to Congress this year, most Democrats and their being women (having vaginas and empathy, both) will help the country. Women's suffrage helped the country, too.

AGBF

 

[the_mother_thing]

@AGBF I’m glad more women are moving into these positions, but at the same time, the country is MORE divided, not only along ethnic lines, but now also by gender. Maybe you & others relish in that kind of ‘America’, but I do not. I am all for equality, but what you & others here preach is not ‘equal’ at all. It’s clear with every post that you/others view men collectively as scum, and ‘white old men’ as even scummier. Imagine that same sentiment shared about ‘white old women’, which I imagine would comprise many here. My guess is you’d be a little offended.

Let the Garland saga die already ... along with the emails, Benghazi and other historical events.

Ford wanted an opportunity to tell her story; the committee offered her that opportunity on Monday in her choice of a private or public hearing. Not good enough for you that they provided exactly what she asked for. Now she’s pushing for an investigation which she and Dems know (and hope) will delay the nomination. Typical of the left ... SSDD. If she really wants to be heard, she’ll show up and speak. If she doesn’t, it’ll be obvious this is just another typical liberal stunt in a long list of stunts, just further validating why people voted the way they did two years ago, and will fuel them to re-elect Trump in 2020. And it will certainly discredit Ford and likely impact her down the road in many ways that the Dems will quickly forget about once this cloud passes.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Keep beating that drum; it’s fared so well the last two years.

Making this about politics like you and Dems do just perpetuates the very thing you complain about, and is exactly why people are skeptical of Ford’s story ... so keep wearing the usual self-righteous flare while casting the usual, hypocritical misandristic drivel.

Contrary to you/dems’ thinking, having a vagina does NOT make you right, better, or more deserving of fairness or equality under the law.

I've never been warned or banned or had MY comments edited on this site, so I'd say I'm faring quite well!

 

[AGBF]

@AGBF I’m glad more women are moving into these positions, but at the same time, the country is MORE divided, not only along ethnic lines, but now also by gender. Maybe you & others relish in that kind of ‘America’, but I do not. I am all for equality, but what you & others here preach is not ‘equal’ at all. It’s clear with every post that you/others view men collectively as scum, and ‘white old men’ as even scummier. Imagine that same sentiment shared about ‘white old women’, which I imagine would comprise many here. My guess is you’d be a little offended.

Let the Garland saga die already ... along with the emails, Benghazi and other historical events.

Ford wanted an opportunity to tell her story; the committee offered her that opportunity on Monday in her choice of a private or public hearing. Not good enough for you that they provided exactly what she asked for. Now she’s pushing for an investigation which she and Dems know (and hope) will delay the nomination. Typical of the left ... SSDD. If she really wants to be heard, she’ll show up and speak. If she doesn’t, it’ll be obvious this is just another typical liberal stunt in a long list of stunts, just further validating why people voted the way they did two years ago, and will fuel them to re-elect Trump in 2020. And it will certainly discredit Ford and likely impact her down the road in many ways that the Dems will quickly forget about once this cloud passes.

Isn't it convenient to "let the Garland 'saga' die" after your friends got their way and illegally blocked the President of the United States Barack Obama from appointing him to The Supreme Court? You folks sure didn't let Benghazzi die! I bet you would like us to let all the terrible, things you and your crowd have done to the poor and oppressed in the name of the rich and corrupt "die" while you continue on your merry way. Keep separating families at the border, for instance. I don't think so.

 

[AGBF]

I’m glad more women are moving into these positions, but at the same time, the country is MORE divided, not only along ethnic lines, but now also by gender. Maybe you & others relish in that kind of ‘America’, but I do not. I am all for equality, but what you & others here preach is not ‘equal’ at all. It’s clear with every post that you/others view men collectively as scum, and ‘white old men’ as even scummier. Imagine that same sentiment shared about ‘white old women’, which I imagine would comprise many here. My guess is you’d be a little offended.

The country may be more divided, but not along sex lines (gender refers to grammar). The Republican Party is flipping out because women are becoming more and more united against the policies of the current Republican Party. Hadn't you heard? No one told you about their fear of the loss of "suburban white women", Jenn?

The kind of "equality" you believe in is not mine. You want women to be like men. You do not accept women as women. You want women to act like soldiers in the military.

I actually understand men. Having had men in psychotherapy with me for long periods of time, I have been able to understand some of them deeply and care for them. But, yes, I hate what some of them in mobs do.

And by the way, I would be delighted if there old white women in the Senate, but, alas, there have been too few women elected to Congress for there to be any. Maybe Dianne Feinstein qualifies as one. I hope many more women age in the Senate and become legends there, and not only white ones.

AGBF

 

[the_mother_thing]

I've never been warned or banned or had MY comments edited on this site, so I'd say I'm faring quite well!

It’s interesting that you base your idea of ‘personal success’ on what happens on an Internet forum. Most people I know (myself included) have higher standards for themselves ... perhaps because there appears to be a correlation between having low standards for oneself and how their cards typically fall in life.

 

[OreoRosies86]

It’s interesting that you base your idea of ‘personal success’ on what happens on an Internet forum. Most people I know (myself included) have higher standards for themselves ... perhaps because there appears to be a correlation between having low standards for oneself and how their cards typically fall in life.

I don't have the time to get into it at the moment as I am enjoying a nice phone conversation with both my parents, whom I have a great relationship with, about my new job. It's nice to have these conversations as they don't involve repeated hangups!

 

[redwood66]

I've never been warned or banned or had MY comments edited on this site, so I'd say I'm faring quite well!

Yeah. In my opinion you get away with quite a bit. Enjoy it. I see you for what you are.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I'll probably get warned now

Back atcha, Red!

 

[the_mother_thing]

The country may be more divided, but not along sex lines (gender refers to grammar). The Republican Party is flipping out because women are becoming more and more united against the policies of the current Republican Party. Hadn't you heard? No one told you about their fear of the loss of "suburban white women", Jenn?

The kind of "equality" you believe in is not mine. You want women to be like men. You do not accept women as women. You want women to act like soldiers in the military.

I actually understand men. Having had men in psychotherapy with me for long periods of time, I have been able to understand some of them deeply and care for them. But, yes, I hate what some of them in mobs do.

And by the way, I would be delighted if there old white women in the Senate, but, alas, there have been too few women elected to Congress for there to be any. Maybe Dianne Feinstein qualifies as one. I hope many more women age in the Senate and become legends there, and not only white ones.

AGBF

Who says your ‘form’ of equality is right? You? Elliott? The Dem Party? MSNBC? Does that MAKE it right? No. You don’t get to define what is right for everyone; only yourself. I refuse to have your idea of what is right shoved down my throat.

No, I don’t want women to be like men - in the military or otherwise; not sure where you get that. I have never pushed for women to do/be exactly the same as men in the military. Where we can be treated ‘equal’, we should be; but there are also differences in men & women that I value (vs demean, like Dems), and I do not want those differences to be eradicated. I VALUE our differences, and I thought that’s what Dems have said for years ... that we should value differences in people. But perhaps you/they only mean that when it benefits or supports their latest position or platform.

Mob mentality - be it a group of men or women - is bad. But you’re silent to women’s mob mentality. Why is that? To me, it’s sounds like you hate men. I find that sad. I appreciate what women have done to improve things for other women in this country, but it wasn’t a group of gals in pink hats who initially fought for this country to be free in the first place, so yes, I DO appreciate the contributions from men as well. Neither is better or worse; we are different.

The biggest difference between you and I, Deb (and I mean this respectfully, no argumentatively) is that you seem to think I should just accept what you/others think as ‘right’, ‘fact’, and alter my way of thinking to your idea of ‘right’. I don’t expect that of you or anyone else. I share my opinion/views/reasons as a means of sharing a different perspective; not changing your mind.

 

[bludiva]

I wouldn't be surprised if this whole thread gets shut down because it's just devolving I to personal attacks. Can we go back to having a debate?

I wonder the extent to which people on both sides of the issue would react differently if it was a Democratic nominee facing the same accusations btw. How much do we really let party affiliation influence our thinking and doing? I'd hope my reaction would be the same, morality should transcend parties. The amount of lying, cheating, stealing, aggressive and unethical behavior, etc. we put up with from the people who run business and govt in the US is astounding. :roll