Well, Now Brett Kavanaugh Can Face His Accuser

[the_mother_thing]

Yeah. In my opinion you get away with quite a bit. Enjoy it. I see you for what you are.

Ditto!

I don't have the time to get into it at the moment as I am enjoying a nice phone conversation with both my parents, whom I have a great relationship with, about my new job. It's nice to have these conversations as they don't involve repeated hangups!

That’s wonderful! I also have great relationships with my parents, and they are proud of my decades long job stability ... probably because of those higher standards I set for myself that I mentioned upthread coupled with making smart choices in life to not get mixed up in situations with people that typically lead to trouble. But this thread isn’t about your job situation or your parents - or mine. So let’s get back on topic, shall we?

It’s about a woman who is making allegations against a man with (to date) no credible evidence, proof or witnesses, decades later, and the left’s expectations that she be believed “just because”. Nope, not buying it ... but I’ll hear them both out if they both show up. If she doesn’t, then I say - move on. It’s already creating a mockery of the whole ‘me too’ movement with a new slogan: “#metoolate”.

 

[OreoRosies86]

You're right bludiva, and sometimes I forget about that sweet, sweet IGNORE button (it's glorious). I'd agree that the pattern of behavior in politics we have been conditioned to tolerate on all sides is depressing.

 

[redwood66]

I wouldn't be surprised if this whole thread gets shut down because it's just devolving I to personal attacks. Can we go back to having a debate?

I wonder the extent to which people on both sides of the issue would react differently if it was a Democratic nominee facing the same accusations btw. How much do we really let party affiliation influence our thinking and doing? I'd hope my reaction would be the same, morality should transcend parties. The amount of lying, cheating, stealing, aggressive and unethical behavior, etc. we put up with from the people who run business and govt in the US is astounding. :roll

Yep, personal attacks suck.

As far as a Dem nominee, I have never seen the Rs get so invested in derailing a Dem nominee at all costs. That said, Congress is full of people who do all of the above from both sides of the aisle. Which means they are not doing the job they were elected to do.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I wonder the extent to which people on both sides of the issue would react differently if it was a Democratic nominee facing the same accusations btw. How much do we really let party affiliation influence our thinking and doing? I'd hope my reaction would be the same, morality should transcend parties. The amount of lying, cheating, stealing, aggressive and unethical behavior, etc. we put up with from the people who run business and govt in the US is astounding. :roll

Personally, I don’t even consider the politics of the nominee in an equation like this; but the politics of those who are making a mockery of the entire process is what speaks volumes to me. In this case, assuming Ford is entirely truthful in her story & allegations, I feel bad for her choosing to come forward in this climate because any ‘truth’ she has to share will be overshadowed by the politics and politicians (as is happening now).

ETA (as I forgot to specifically address the nominee, allegations aside): As for the nominee, it’s the same as it is for any other job - I want the best person for the job - period. I don’t care what their politics, gender, hair color, etc., is so long as they do not allow those variables to influence how they do their job. In this case, I hoped for a nominee who would honor the constitution, and I feel Kavanaugh will do so.

As to Ford herself and whether I’d fairly consider her or a similar ‘accuser’, I don’t care about his/her politics either; rather, I look at the situation in its entirety - her ‘story’, what are the facts, is he/she ‘credible’ or is there a possible motive, etc. - when deciding whether the accuser is ‘believeable’ or not. I don’t care how he/she votes. I do not just take what a person says/alleges as ‘fact’ because that is now how our justice system works. And when coupled with all of the other ‘variables’ I noted up-thread, the entire situation looks sketchy. And that’s why I advocate reporting a crime when it happens; that would have gone a long way in how Ford’s story is accepted and considered in this situation today. But that was her choice; not mine.

 

[JPie]

I wouldn't be surprised if this whole thread gets shut down because it's just devolving I to personal attacks. Can we go back to having a debate?

I wonder the extent to which people on both sides of the issue would react differently if it was a Democratic nominee facing the same accusations btw. How much do we really let party affiliation influence our thinking and doing? I'd hope my reaction would be the same, morality should transcend parties. The amount of lying, cheating, stealing, aggressive and unethical behavior, etc. we put up with from the people who run business and govt in the US is astounding. :roll

If it were Garland in this position and not Kavanaugh, I would expect the claims to be investigated. I don’t want a possible sexual predator to be in the highest court of this country regardless of which president chose him.

 

[Matata]

Kathleen Parker's column in my morning paper postulates that this could have been a case of mistaken identity. I suppose it's plausible that all white teenage boys look alike....

 

[bludiva]

As for the nominee, it’s the same as it is for any other job - I want the best person for the job - period. I don’t care what their politics, gender, hair color, etc., is so long as they do not allow those variables to influence how they do their job.

Yes to this. I disagree Kavanaugh is that person, but that's a debate we can have. If we put the accusations aside, there have been worse nominees (anyone remember Harriet Miers?).

Another thought experiment I indulge in sometimes: what would the country look like if all the people we elect were dedicated to the public good and not their own careers/ambition/glory? We may disagree on the steps to take but if everyone in government were working to make this country a better place and were able to collaborate to get things done imagine where we would be. This see-sawing back and forth between ideologies and ignoring practical reality (infrastructure, healthcare and education costs and quality, aging population, debt and fiscal abuse, on and on and on) is detrimental to us all except for the very wealthiest who are insulated from the effects. I really think as a nation we're all being played and we need to stop fighting with each other and start working together to get the government working for the people again.

 

[Ellen]

I imagine you have never been present for a rape kit. Or for the kinds of questions that get asked about your character, your sexual behavior, your credibility - most often with a condescending, dismissive, and disbelieving tone. I imagine you have no idea how humiliating, dehumanizing, and often physically painful the process of reporting an assault is, or how rarely charges are pressed or how rarely convictions are obtained even if women do go forward. I imagine you have no idea how awful and life destroying the act of going through a multi-year trial is, where you can never move on, never find your normal, never forget that you are being attacked and revictimized at every stage along the way. Not to mention the derailment of education, career, family that this represents.

I also imagine that you have no idea of the psychological trauma which is occurring at the same time that you’re supposed to be bravely standing up and doing what people who have no idea what they’re talking about seem to assume is the ‘right’ thing for you to do. Nightmares, flashbacks, feelings of derealization, depersonalization, and dissociated terror. Not to mention the fact that trauma almost universally creates an intense, unreasonable, and intractable sense of guilt and shame. Of having somehow caused this horrific thing to have happened to you. Of wanting nothing more than to try to pretend it didn’t happen to you. Of wanting to protect your family from the pain of learning what has happened to you. Of desperately wanting to go back to being the person that you were the day before: The one who wasn’t violated. The one who isn’t afraid all the time. The one who doesn’t feel gross and disgusting and ashamed. Of desperately trying not to think about it because it is physically painful to do so. I imagine you've never been in a therapy room with someone 20 years later who still can’t speak about the event without retching. Who can’t think about what happened without reliving every sound, smell, bodily sensation, and every physical and psychological violation that occurred.

And in the US, if it’s a wealthy, popular, athletic boy who assaulted you, the reality is that you’ll also face the wrath and scorn and disbelief of people who know nothing about what happened but who will focus more on ‘not ruining the life of an upstanding citizen’ than worrying about the harm done to you, the victim, and your life. Who will think nothing of defaming you and threatening you on the Internet, leaving you constantly afraid that some nut job is going to actually do what terrible thing they've said behind an anonymous username. Because women don’t matter, and sadly, women value each other the least when these things happen. We choose to believe the men. We choose to call the victims liars. We choose to blame them for being drunk, or ‘easy,’ or for being where they shouldn’t have been. And the more socially conservative women are, the worse this gets.

Until women stop being so brainwashed in the cult of men being more credible, more important, more *valuable,* we will keep ourselves down in this muck. You saw it with Trump. Grab her by the pussy meant nothing, the reports of assaults meant nothing, the lecherous behavior towards teenaged girls in the pagents that he owned meant nothing, the grossly indecent way he conducted himself with women meant nothing. Why? Because taking away the reproductive rights of other women was so important? Because removing access to reliable birth control that doesn’t require the consent of a man is such a good idea? Because anyone still believes that abstinence education works? (And who does that hurt? Men? I think not). It never fails to surprise me how far some women will go to vote against their own best interests.

So brave as this woman is, credible as she may be, this will mean nothing. If the kid who was so drunk that he couldn’t stand upright can’t remember anything happening, we should believe him when he says that nothing happened, right? If Kavanuagh is never polygraphed but denies that this happened, we should believe him too, right? Because we shouldn’t ‘ruin’ men’s all important narcissistic pursuit of (insert high status activity of some kind here) because of the inconvenience of there having been women who were hurt and victimized by them. Yeah, that’s right, because they’re men. So they count more.

Feminist rant over. It’s on deaf ears anyway. Enjoy living in Gilead.

I wanted to comment on your post. I tried to very early this morning, but I was not awake enough to adequately express my thoughts.

I have never been assaulted physically, so I have no idea what that is like. Sure, I had imagined in my limited capacity what it might be like, but what I imagined came nowhere near where your post took me this morning. Thank you for making it "real", in the sense that I came away with a much more vivid, and compassionate view of just what all one goes through/experiences when they have been physically violated.

This is not to say that I ever blamed the victim (I haven't), nor that I was not sympathetic to victims (I am). It simply means I could not know what it meant, really meant, as much as I do now, until I read your very eloquent post. I am so glad you wrote it, and I am so very glad I read it. Because I am a better person now, than I was before.

Again, thank you.

 

[redwood66]

An observation - Hillary Clinton is the last person that Dems should want on TV shows speaking on this issue.

 

[Matata]

Hillary Clinton is the last person that Dems should want on TV shows speaking on this issue.

Speaking on ANY issue. She has become, imo, irrelevant on the political scene and should concentrate on filling her time with humanitarian causes that keep her out of the spotlight.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Yes to this. I disagree Kavanaugh is that person, but that's a debate we can have. If we put the accusations aside, there have been worse nominees (anyone remember Harriet Miers?).

Another thought experiment I indulge in sometimes: what would the country look like if all the people we elect were dedicated to the public good and not their own careers/ambition/glory? We may disagree on the steps to take but if everyone in government were working to make this country a better place and were able to collaborate to get things done imagine where we would be. This see-sawing back and forth between ideologies and ignoring practical reality (infrastructure, healthcare and education costs and quality, aging population, debt and fiscal abuse, on and on and on) is detrimental to us all except for the very wealthiest who are insulated from the effects. I really think as a nation we're all being played and we need to stop fighting with each other and start working together to get the government working for the people again.

Truthfully, I don’t want to further debate Kav being the right or wrong guy for the job until this other issue is behind us. It IS a potential case that he could have done this, in which case, yes, my support for him would change if he is proven to be ‘guilty’. If he is innocent, then my support for him as a S.C. Justice won’t change (barring some other allegation coming to light and being truthful).

On your second point - I feel like I have had a chance to see exactly that in my state this last week amidst the hurricane devastation. I did not vote for nor support my Governor, but I would stand with the many people who feel he and other elected officials and agencies (state and Federal) have done an outstanding job of putting ‘the people’ first in their preparation, coordination & response vs playing politics, as sadly happens at times like this. Young, old, black, white, rich, poor, male, female ... our officials have come together beautifully in the wake of this tragedy for so many to do the right thing, at the right time, for the right reasons. We NEED more of that in this country, and not just by our elected officials, but by the citizens who vote for them as well.

 

[Calliecake]

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your post @cmd2014 . I wish I could write as eloquently as you do.

The_mother_thing , I pray your daughters or you never have to know what having this experience feels like, although I honestly believe that is the only way you would ever even begin to understand. Your lack of compassion and empathy is truly unbelieveable.

You and countless other women like you is why I worry about the world my nieces will grow up in. Why you yell and scream about this being political, there are many women who are being reminded of the ugliest, most hurtful time in their life.

Ms Ford has taken and passed a polygraph test. Not one word about has been issued or mentioned about Kavanaugh taking one. The other person in the room has openly said he doesn’t want to testify. And yet you come to the conclusion the woman is lying.

No one here has said there should not be an investigation. People are questioning Kavanaugh’s integrity, as they should. I would want an investigation if Obama had picked him.

 

[AGBF]

No, I don’t want women to be like men - in the military or otherwise; not sure where you get that.

...​

To me, it’s sounds like you hate men. I find that sad.

Why I speculated that you wanted women to be like men (and of course, since I do not know you, it was mere speculation): because you are so counter-aggressive. I know that as the poster, Jenn, you were in the military. I suspect that choosing that field was so that you could prove you were not a weak woman with a mere vagina, but the equal of a man with a penis like his. I see you as putting down women who do not "defend" themselves by "acting like men" and standing up to the world by facing their accusers when they are raped. In other words, you will not allow them to go soft. You must make them hard because you are afraid to be soft. You are always trying to be stronger than the big men and have the biggest swinging dick. Is it armchair psychoanalysis? Of course. I never met you. But you asked where I got it. That was my thinking.

You think I hate men. I don't. I had the most wonderful relationship in the world with my father and that is where the bonds of love start between an infant and a child.

But if I did hate men why would you find it sad? Why can't a woman hate men in a happy world?

AGBF

 

[redwood66]

I worry for my sons in a world where women think it is appropriate to make allegations anonymously that might egregiously affect a man's life without due process and presumption of innocence. Especially if the accusation is completely opposite of long decades of known exemplary character.

How exactly will this be investigated when the alleged victim does not remember details that would allow facts to be found? Like where and when.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@Calliecake Your first mistake is assuming you know what I - myself - and/or people close to me have or have not been through. You don’t. Not everyone feels the need to join in a collective kumbaya sharing session or disclose personal details of their lives on a public forum, to the Senate, or WaPo, of all places.

Second, I didn’t say Ford lied; I said many aspects of her allegations, timing, chosen ‘forum’, etc. are highly suspect, and perhaps her judgement is poor given the medium she chose to use to ‘come forward’. I also said I want to hear what she (and Kav) has to say and will hear both objectively - IF she shows up.

Third, Ms. Ford didn’t ‘pass a polygraph’; one statement (during the polygraph) she made summarizing her allegations to be true was noted to ‘pass’. That’s it; nothing else about the ‘test’, questions, her otherresponses, etc. have been made public.

Fourth, the other person alleged to be in the room said he did not recall what Ford alleged to have occurred, and he chooses not to participate further. That is his right, and I don’t blame him. He didn’t ask for this mess and seems to just want to go about his life.

Lastly, Kavanaugh doesn’t have to take a polygraph, though he is free to do so if he wants to. You may forget that - in this country & in our justice system - the burden is NOT on the accused to prove his innocence (much to Dems’ dismay); it’s on the accuser/prosecution to prove their allegations. Ford has had 36 years (+/-) to do this, so yes, I’m of the mindset now that - to use Sen. Hirono’s words - Ford should "show up or shut up" on Monday.

 

[Tekate]

All judges follow the law Red. What makes you think any judges wouldn't? I can't imagine that, if they did they would be thrown off the bench.. I have never seen a judge not follow the law.

Now I have seen judges interpret the law in a way that is not what I think is correct. Take Citizens United, as I see it, extending the law to include super pacs is interpretation, the judges who felt it was 'speech' extended its meaning and these judges were all on the right side more than moderate or 'liberal'. The law could easily be changed if at some point in time a case comes to the court and the current court felt the United decision stepped too far then it could be overturned.

What social 'justice decision stepped too far by judges who 'feel they are right'? The original laws would not even be recognized by the original framers, who took most of the rules from English law.

As for Kavanaugh, if he is confirmed it will be a rallying point to get democratic and independent women voters to vote. Bad for the republicans.

Since we are being honest here, millions felt the exact same same way about possible nominees from Clinton who would make rulings based on what they feel is right and some sort of social justice rather than following the laws as written. It is one of the main reasons we have Trump instead of Clinton, even though many of them cannot stand his antics. It's nothing about a "team" for me that's for sure. This is the fate of our country and not everyone wants the same outcome. As for Kavanaugh we will see what happens, but if he is not confirmed before the election this will be a rallying point for Republicans to get out and vote.

Edit - as for him letting Trump off on any charges there has to be more judges than him in agreement for that to happen.

 

[Tekate]

I have sons too, I don't worry about them because 1) I taught them from when they were very young if a girl says no she means NO. If my sons did things similar to what Trump/Kavanaugh have alleged to have done, I would expect my sons to go to jail. If a girl just accuses my son(s) of a rape then I expect a trial. If by a due process you mean a charge and trial I am all for it, but at that time he should step aside, it isn't as though Trump is going to nominate a moderate judge like Merrick Garland, who was praised by republicans and demorats. But conservatives want Kavanaugh so badly it is scary. So let's put aside Kavanaugh and get another nominee.

I have never known anyone who was accused of rape, attack. I don't know the stats on how many of them are lies, but I would venture a guess, not many.

I worry for my sons in a world where women think it is appropriate to make allegations anonymously that might egregiously affect a man's life without due process and presumption of innocence. Especially if the accusation is completely opposite of long decades of known exemplary character.

How exactly will this be investigated when the alleged victim does not remember details that would allow facts to be found? Like where and when.

 

[lovedogs]

I worry for my sons in a world where women think it is appropriate to make allegations anonymously that might egregiously affect a man's life without due process and presumption of innocence. Especially if the accusation is completely opposite of long decades of known exemplary character.

How exactly will this be investigated when the alleged victim does not remember details that would allow facts to be found? Like where and when.

Red, I respect that we don't agree on this/other issues. But this is a viewpoint I will truly never understand. I can't wrap my head around any of it. How is the man anyone's first concern? Barring the obvious edge cases (mental illness, misplaced "revenge") people don't just make up sexual assault accusations.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Why I speculated that you wanted women to be like men (and of course, since I do not know you, it was mere speculation): because you are so counter-aggressive. I know that as the poster, Jenn, you were in the military. I suspect that choosing that field was so that you could prove you were not a weak woman with a mere vagina, but the equal of a man with a penis like his. I see you as putting down women who do not "defend" themselves by "acting like men" and standing up to the world by facing their accusers when they are raped. In other words, you will not allow them to go soft. You must make them hard because you are afraid to be soft. You are always trying to be stronger than the big men and have the biggest swinging dick. Is it armchair psychoanalysis? Of course. I never met you. But you asked where I got it. That was my thinking.

You think I hate men. I don't. I had the most wonderful relationship in the world with my father and that is where the bonds of love start between an infant and a child.

But if I did hate men why would you find it sad? Why can't a woman hate men in a happy world?

AGBF

You’re entire assumption of me, why I joined the military, how I view “vaginas and penises” and men & women is laughable at best. It’s easier for me to say, “Deb, just go ahead and hang up your psychoanalysis clipboard” because it’s just all so wrong and in left field (no pun intended).

I would find it sad that anyone would hate any person who has not caused them harm or given them a direct reason to; that is not my definition of a happy world at all, and it puzzles me why you would think it is.

 

[redwood66]

Red, I respect that we don't agree on this/other issues. But this is a viewpoint I will truly never understand. I can't wrap my head around any of it. How is the man anyone's first concern? Barring the obvious edge cases (mental illness, misplaced "revenge") people don't just make up sexual assault accusations.

The man is not the concern. The law is the concern because rape and sexual assault is not a special kind of crime that follows different rules if the accused denies it.

 

[soxfan]

@Calliecake Your first mistake is assuming you know what I - myself - and/or people close to me have or have not been through. You don’t. Not everyone feels the need to join in a collective kumbaya sharing session or disclose personal details of their lives on a public forum, to the Senate, or WaPo, of all places.

Second, I didn’t say Ford lied; I said many aspects of her allegations, timing, chosen ‘forum’, etc. are highly suspect, and perhaps her judgement is poor given the medium she chose to use to ‘come forward’. I also said I want to hear what she (and Kav) has to say and will hear both objectively - IF she shows up.

Third, Ms. Ford didn’t ‘pass a polygraph’; one statement (during the polygraph) she made summarizing her allegations to be true was noted to ‘pass’. That’s it; nothing else about the ‘test’, questions, her otherresponses, etc. have been made public.

Fourth, the other person alleged to be in the room said he did not recall what Ford alleged to have occurred, and he chooses not to participate further. That is his right, and I don’t blame him. He didn’t ask for this mess and seems to just want to go about his life.

Lastly, Kavanaugh doesn’t have to take a polygraph, though he is free to do so if he wants to. You may forget that - in this country & in our justice system - the burden is NOT on the accused to prove his innocence (much to Dems’ dismay); it’s on the accuser/prosecution to prove their allegations. Ford has had 36 years (+/-) to do this, so yes, I’m of the mindset now that - to use Sen. Hirono’s words - Ford should "show up or shut up" on Monday.

Where did you see that she said that? She said the "men of this country need to shut up and step up." I never heard her say that about Ford?

 

[the_mother_thing]

But this is a viewpoint I will truly never understand. I can't wrap my head around any of it. How is the man anyone's first concern? Barring the obvious edge cases (mental illness, misplaced "revenge") people don't just make up sexual assault accusations.

Unless you are a witness, the alleged victim, or accused, why would you immediately rush to either ‘side’ and just believe what they say? That is the point, that people accused of crimes in this country are innocent until found guilty in court by a judge or jury.

I hope to God - if you feel differently - that you are NEVER called to Jury duty.

 

[Tekate]

Why is the timing suck? Feinstein received her letter from Ford on 7/30/18. I think it's in the realm of total possibilty that Feinstein would check out Ford and the information vehemently before she would go to republicans with the letter, Feinstein isn't a idiot and doesn't want to portrayed by the republicans as one. I don't find it too strange that the time frame from 7/30 to 9/12 that outrageous. I am never sure anything is a win for democrats anymore because of republicans gerrymandering, not vetting Judge Garland, Citizens United, tax break for the uber rich, democrats have no power since 2010 little own a win.

The timing of the whole dang thing is what sucks and is causing fence sitters to question it. Feinstein's waiting until the last minute is pure politics. This should have come out when the info was received in July, not one week before the vote, to allow time for review. This view has nothing to do with the validity of her story.

It is a win-win for Dems to have played this card now because Repubs look like crap for pushing him through or if they wait and lose the Senate after the election Dems will hold shit up forever and cry that the nominee must wait until the new Senate is seated. Politicians being politicians.

 

[Calliecake]

Red, I respect that we don't agree on this/other issues. But this is a viewpoint I will truly never understand. I can't wrap my head around any of it. How is the man anyone's first concern? Barring the obvious edge cases (mental illness, misplaced "revenge") people don't just make up sexual assault accusations.

+1,000

I can’t begin to wrap my head around your viewpoint either Red.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Where did you see that she said that? She said the "men of this country need to shut up and step up." I never heard her say that about Ford?

Re-read what I posted and how I stated & quoted it. I didn’t say Hirono said that about Ford; I said I was using Hirono’s words (today, to ‘men’) about how I feel about Ford and this situation.

 

[Tekate]

+1 and a #me too

I've never told anyone. ever.

I think it's really unfortunate that whether an accusation of this nature is "too convenient to be true" depending on politics. Because the same thing was said about Roy Moore and Al Franken. It must be nice for men to be able to get away with this stuff as long as it's politically expedient.

Something similar to the Kavanaugh alleged assault happened to me. Why didn't I report it to the police? Because rape is taken seriously, but run of the mill sexual assault is NOT, and I wasn't even aware that what this boy did was a crime. I imagine this boy, now a man, coming up for a position for the Supreme Court. If I say something, will it be "too convenient"? Will I be accused of being a liar because "I didn't say something earlier," as if I was supposed to stalk this guy throughout his whole life and warn every possible employer or else lose my right to ever speak out? Is what he did ok because he was 17 and I was 18? Will people be wondering if I was drunk just because he was drunk? Is his being drunk an excuse, even though if I drank it's my fault for drinking and I should have known better?

This woman has serious balls for coming forward publicly. And for Kavanaugh's side, I'm glad he's getting the chance to face his accuser. I'm glad he hasn't attacked this woman, but I wish everyone else would knock it off.

No way am I watching the hearings though. I'm pretty emotional about this. We need a surrogate to have a child, and women are not wanting to be surrogates with a SC that might over turn rowe. And of course I got the idea to flap my mouth and announce to family and close friends that we were perusing this avenue literally an hour before Kennedy resigned. I have the very best timing.

 

[Calliecake]

Unless you are a witness, the alleged victim, or accused, why would you immediately rush to either ‘side’ and just believe what they say? That is the point, that people accused of crimes in this country are innocent until found guilty in court by a judge or jury.

I hope to God - if you feel differently - that you are NEVER called to Jury duty.

Everything you write shows your true feelings. You wrote the “alleged victim”.

Some of your comments make my blood boil Jenn.

 

[Tekate]

I think Ellison should have a full investigation too. I thought they werel

Ok. Let's try the left leaning SF Chronicle editorial board. Does this work for you?

https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion...-disturbing-11th-hour-allegation-13230890.php


I expect a full investigation into allegations against Keith Ellison to be forthcoming otherwise Dems are hypocrites.

 

[Calliecake]

Where did you see that she said that? She said the "men of this country need to shut up and step up." I never heard her say that about Ford?

You are correct @soxfan . Jenn took her comment and twisted it against Ms Ford.

 

[redwood66]

Everything you write shows your true feelings. You wrote the “alleged victim”.

Some of your comments make my blood boil Jenn.

Alleged is the legal term and he has denied it so he is also alleged. She is making allegations.