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vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom piece

arjunajane

Ideal_Rock
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Jan 18, 2008
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9,758
Hi fellow PS'ers

I am going to attempt to keep this as succinct as I can, but being verbose by nature, please excuse me if I don't achieve it!

In August/September 2009 I embarked on a new custom project with Julia Kay Taylor. It was originally supposed to be a 3 gem stone bezel ring, but ended up being a 5 gem stone ornate bracelet. Why I ended up with an ornate bracelet 3 times the cost of the basic ring I had really wanted, is difficult to explain..

Regardless, the piece was eventually finished and ready to ship by 9 Nov 2010.
The background of this lengthy custom project is involved, very rocky, detailed and, well...lengthy - so I am not choosing to post about any of these details.
However, I do not have any objections to posters asking me any questions they like - my post here, and any made subsequently, are not based on memory or emotions - I have painstakingly gone back through almost 15 months of emails, paypal transactions, and so on, so that I can be 100% confident I am presenting factual info and not conjecture.


I would also like to briefly pre-face by saying this was an *extremely* difficult thread to decide to write, not the least as I'm aware JKT has some passionate fans here.
But please, before anyone automatically flames or judges me, please do look back into my threads and posting history - at my long and overwhelmingly positive relationship with Julia on these boards. I understand being a fan, as I was the original 'fan-girl' for JKT - some may recall I was one of the very first (maybe the first?) PSer to commission Julia for a custom project.
The designs of my first two commissioned pieces have since become 'standard offerings' in JKT's stores, baring my namesakes, and which many more PSers have purchased the same or similar pieces.
Since her intro to PS, I have been one of Julia's most vocal and sincere supporters and advocates, encouraging others to make the most of her excellent craftsmanship and amazing customer service.

Which, with all of this mentioned, is all the more baffling why Julia now refuses to acknowledge my concerns, or to offer any kind of followup or customer support what so ever with regards to my most recent project (completed with her at the end of 2010 and received by me a couple of months ago here in Australia.)
I feel I have followed my own advice which I've given to consumers in earnest many times on PS : "do everything you can to resolve your issue with the vendor behind the scenes before taking it onto PS". Only do so as a final last resort
With a number of my emails to JKT outlining my concerns with her product going simply ignored, I am now feeling left without many more options, hence this thread.

Yep, I will not BS - this is, in part, a vent thread. I have also said on here many times that I believe negative as well as positive reviews of any vendor, no matter how popular, should be shared with the community.

But it is also a thread asking, what would you do in my situation? I have a very expensive piece, which I invested over a year of time and effort and some of my best gemstones into, which is literally of no use to me, due to a number of errors of the jeweller.

In detail, my concerns and related complaints with my custom five gem stone, argentium and 18k yellow gold bracelet are as follows:

1. The shape. Look at high jewellery (or in fact just most jewellery) for bracelets - they are almost always constructed with an Ovoid shape that matches the natural shape and curve of the human forearm or wrist. They aren't exactly round, as our arms aren't. But they have an ovoid shape, from east to west, for fit and comfort.
For an un-determined reason, Julia decided to create this bracelet with a north-south Ovoid orientation. Effectively, this aspect of the construction makes the bracelet un-wearable, and as such, is a non-functional piece of jewellery. Due (in large part) to this shape, it is very uncomfortable, and will not stay on the arm for more than a second or two before falling to the wrist.
This was not the shape that was agreed to, nor was it shown in any of the sketches or designs created and approved for my project (these designs actually show the traditional / accepted standard of east-west ovoid orientation).

2. The Fit. The bracelet is that much too large for me, I can easily slip it on and off my hand with the clasp closed. Along with the issue mentioned at 1), this further contributes to the bracelet simply not being functional. Of course, being a custom project, fit and size were discussed significantly and at length. As per the vendor's request, I provided photos of my arm, with corresponding measurements, and instructions for where I would like the bracelet to sit.
Due to the design, the bracelet was intended to sit on the forearm, a detail discussed at length - as the size is, I can push it up almost to the elbow before it "fits" - but it quickly falls back down.

3. The size - as in, the measurements of the piece and actual shape and bulk and heaviness of the bracelet.
The bracelet is significantly larger in person than I had either requested or anticipated, or had been discussed. The measurements are also larger than the measurements I agreed upon via email. Some folks may say here 'but you're getting more bracelet, that's good!". However, if the measurements, bulkiness and heaviness of the piece make it literally un-wearable, well than in this case, bigger certainly is not better ;))
Issue 3), combined with the factors of issue 1) and 2), work in conjunction to make this bracelet...certainly a pretty ornament to look at...but that's it. :(sad By no means can it be considered a functional piece of jewellery as it is at the moment - which was what I ordered and paid for - not an ornament.

This was by no means a cheap or easy project for me (and I know for certain it was not easy for Julia).
It has five of my own gemstones that I'd collected over time set into it, a couple being real favourites.
Since it has arrived and I immediately discovered the inherent faults, I have not attempted to wear it, even inside the home. To do so would be foolish and risk damaging the gems, which are bezel set along the top of the bracelet.

I have emailed Julia twice over a number of weeks, politely outlining my concerns just like above, and asking for her suggestion of an amicable resolution. Than asking for just any reply at all. To date I've been ignored.

And so...what do you think?
What would you do if you were me?

I know my post is lengthy, so thank you to those who read and reply, in advance.
Your advice, input, questions, comments, are all welcome.

Sincerely
AJ.
 

davi_el_mejor

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Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

AJ- I'm very sorry your experience with JKT has turned unpleasant. I remember the story of this bracelet well, along with the pictures of the beautiful ornament/"bracelet". I sincerely hope she replies to your emails and the two of you can come up with some sort of agreement.

You asked what I would do. I would give her until the end of the month to at least get back to you, better yet, have a solution that reconciles all your concerns. Custom pieces by JKT are not cheap and should be perfect for the premium paid. If there is no amicable resolution that can be made, I would have to insist on a full refund and return all materials minus the gemstones to her.

Good luck, and I hope there's a reply to your emails today. Have you checked your other folders in your email? Something may have tripped a spam filter and it was kicked there.
 

Novel

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1,199
Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

AJ, that's awful. I'm so sorry that your relationship with JKT has turned into this and that you have an unwearable piece. If it were me, I'd write one last email letting her know that if you continue not to hear back from her, given emails of date x, xy, and xyz (or how ever many you've sent and she hasn't responded to), you're going to file a dispute with paypal by date (end of May perhaps?). The item is not only unsatisfactory, but it isn't the item you ordered, in essence.

Good luck. Keep us updated.
 

JewelFreak

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Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

I'm so sorry to hear that, AJ. After all the work on both your parts. Novel's and Davi's suggestions sound very sensible to me, good way to go. Start w/PayPal first, maybe, & see if they can help resolve anything. I do hope it comes out with something to your satisfaction.

--- Laurie
 

Lovinggems

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Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

AJ just want to say hi :wavey: and I hope you'll get a satisfactory resolution from JKT. I wonder if the bottom half of the bangle could be reshaped to east-west so the bangle will fit you better. I don't know how the top part of the bangle fits on your wrist though, whether this is a workable idea.
 

VRBeauty

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Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

AJ - I'm so sorry to read of your disappointment with the bracelet that you waited so long for. I remember the pictures from our earlier thread - it does look like a spectacular piece, and I'm very sorry to hear that it's not wearable.

The design you describe - a bracelet that is to be worn on the forearm and that should stay there - sounds to me to be inherently problematic. Of course I have no idea what your arm looks like, but looking at my arm, any bracelet worn up that would have to be so large that it would also be large enough to slip off my wrist. Also, you to be able to see the front of a bracelet worn as high as you've described, the "front" would have to be on the pointy end of the ovoid - if the design elements were on the flat side, they'd either have to be worn on the inside, where only you would be seeing them, or on the outside in which case everybody else would be able to see them but it would be very, very difficult for you to see them without bending your arm at the elbow and raising your arm. There's no way for a bracelet worn like that to "face forward" with the design elements on the smooth side of the ovoid. Plus a bracelet sitting up that high will be sitting on a muscle, which would make the fit very difficult. So to me it seems that part of the question is... who decided that the bracelet should sit up that high? Did you and Julia discuss the possibility of your sending or tracing a bracelet that fits the way you wanted this one to fit?

Of course, none of that excuses the lack of communication on JKT's part. I've purchased from her in the past so I'm on her mailing list, and I'm aware that she has her daughter helping her now, taking care of much of the communication. Again not an excuse for her, for the lack of communication, just another possible complicating factor.

Do you have a resolution in mind? Perhaps giving her a specific option to react to would help get the discussion going.

I hope this works out well for you - good luck.
 

Circe

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Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

What kind of a resolution would you find acceptable? Do you simply want your money back, or do you want JKT to redo the work?

I went back to look at the thread you posted about the bracelet, and it's definitely beautiful ... but I can see how it would pose a challenge to wear. Making it wearable, due to the shape and the intricacy of the piercing would mean remaking it completely, I think. Is that something that would satisfy you? Because it sounds like you're disenchanted with the project overall now, and not just with its execution ....

ETA: Cross-posted with VRBeauty, and I have to say that you hit the mail on the head in terms of physiology: I was staring at my forearm, trying to figure out the fit. Those all seem like relevant questions/issues that would have definitely influence the design process, and that should be taken into account in the resolution ....
 

VRBeauty

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Aoife

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Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

I'm so sorry that your beautiful bracelet is unwearable, AJ. I sincerely hope that you and JKT can come to some kind of settlement that is mutually agreeable. It would be a real shame is something that is such a work of art became a source of anger every time you look at it, rather than something you enjoy and feel pride in.

Having said that, VRBeauty pinpointed what I think may be the issue with this particular piece. Any bracelet that is meant to be worn partially up the arm is problematical in terms of design, and I am wondering if part of why you haven't heard back from Julia is because she has no idea of how to solve the problem. When you (generalized "you") wear a heavy bracelet that far up the arm, it is not only the weight of the piece that becomes an issue, it is also the fact that the shape of the arm changes as you flex the muscles of your wrist and forearm. Creating a rigid bracelet that can stay in place as you move would be a real challenge, I think. The other issue is the one VR pointed out, which is that what constitutes the front of your forearm/wrist changes as you rotate your forearm. I used to wear a gold V-shaped bracelet halfway up my arm, and while it stayed in place if I held my arm still, as I moved it either dug into the flesh of my arm, or slid down around my wrist. Unlike fingers, forearms not only move vertically and horizontally, they twist. Quite the design headache.

Good luck, I hope you hear back from Julia soon. I'm so sad that this has turned into such an unpleasant process for you.
 

arjunajane

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Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

davi_el_mejor|1306075018|2927725 said:
AJ- I'm very sorry your experience with JKT has turned unpleasant. I remember the story of this bracelet well, along with the pictures of the beautiful ornament/"bracelet". I sincerely hope she replies to your emails and the two of you can come up with some sort of agreement.

You asked what I would do. I would give her until the end of the month to at least get back to you, better yet, have a solution that reconciles all your concerns. Custom pieces by JKT are not cheap and should be perfect for the premium paid. If there is no amicable resolution that can be made, I would have to insist on a full refund and return all materials minus the gemstones to her.

Good luck, and I hope there's a reply to your emails today. Have you checked your other folders in your email? Something may have tripped a spam filter and it was kicked there.
Hi davi - thanks for commenting. I hope so too, but we'll see.

Your recommendation of asking for a reply by deadline has already been tried, to no avail. I didn't outline a specific resolution, I will keep that in mind.
Nope, definitely no spam or other issues like that - and Julia was replying to some emails from me about shipping around 2 - 3 weeks before I sent my 'issues' email..


Novel said:
AJ, that's awful. I'm so sorry that your relationship with JKT has turned into this and that you have an unwearable piece. If it were me, I'd write one last email letting her know that if you continue not to hear back from her, given emails of date x, xy, and xyz (or how ever many you've sent and she hasn't responded to), you're going to file a dispute with paypal by date (end of May perhaps?). The item is not only unsatisfactory, but it isn't the item you ordered, in essence.

Good luck. Keep us updated.
Thanks Novel. This is the first complaint thread I've ever started about a vendor on PS, and it feels a real shame, but it is what it is.

Unfortunately, as I trusted Julia so inherently and due to our previous friendship, Paypal is not an option.
For one - as I paid a large deposit very early on, and the project delivery deadline was extended numerous times, my claim period is well expired.
I am looking into it with my final deposit, which could still be eligible - however this is still less than a third of the costs..

Thanks for your post.


JewelFreak said:
I'm so sorry to hear that, AJ. After all the work on both your parts. Novel's and Davi's suggestions sound very sensible to me, good way to go. Start w/PayPal first, maybe, & see if they can help resolve anything. I do hope it comes out with something to your satisfaction.

--- Laurie
Thanks Laurie - please see above re Paypal :(sad
I hope so too - it is too much $$ and too nice a group of gems to have it sit in a draw never to be worn.!
 

arjunajane

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Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

Lovinggems|1306077927|2927743 said:
AJ just want to say hi :wavey: and I hope you'll get a satisfactory resolution from JKT. I wonder if the bottom half of the bangle could be reshaped to east-west so the bangle will fit you better. I don't know how the top part of the bangle fits on your wrist though, whether this is a workable idea.
Hey LG, nice to see ya ::)
cheers for the thoughts - I was hoping just the plain bottom could be done too, however other jewellers tell me this is nigh on impossible.
I've consulted a well trusted premium jeweller and he is just simply baffled why someone with JKT's apparent talent would make a bracelet like this..
The top and bottom halves are the same - kind of like handcuffs, but perhaps more oval..sorry, I would add a pic but don't have any saved on this laptop.
 

junebug17

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Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

I too am sorry about all of this - a very frustrating situation to say the least!

I think Davi and Novel had some good suggestions. And as Davi said, check your spam folder - you never know. I just find it so odd that JTK would ignore your emails - makes me think maybe she's not getting them, or you're not getting hers for some reason.

I too never noticed the orientation of the bracelet when first looking at your pics. And I would think the bracelet would have to be very light-weight and tight in order to stay up on your forearm, or else the law of gravity kicks in. Maybe the bracelet could be re-worked so that it at least sits on your wrist comfortably? I know it's not what you initially wanted, but it might be a compromise. All of this is a moot point if you can't communicate with her though! I hope you can get in touch with her soon. If not, I'd go with Novel and Davi's suggestions.

I too am curious on how you would like this resolved. Would you prefer a full refund, a new bracelet, or for JTK to re-work this one somehow?

ETA: We must have been posting at the same time - just read your response to you can just basically ignore my post! Again, sorry you are dealing with this and I hope you can at least get in touch with Julia soon!
 

arjunajane

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Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

VRBeauty|1306078353|2927746 said:
AJ - I'm so sorry to read of your disappointment with the bracelet that you waited so long for. I remember the pictures from our earlier thread - it does look like a spectacular piece, and I'm very sorry to hear that it's not wearable.

The design you describe - a bracelet that is to be worn on the forearm and that should stay there - sounds to me to be inherently problematic. Of course I have no idea what your arm looks like, but looking at my arm, any bracelet worn up that would have to be so large that it would also be large enough to slip off my wrist. Also, you to be able to see the front of a bracelet worn as high as you've described, the "front" would have to be on the pointy end of the ovoid - if the design elements were on the flat side, they'd either have to be worn on the inside, where only you would be seeing them, or on the outside in which case everybody else would be able to see them but it would be very, very difficult for you to see them without bending your arm at the elbow and raising your arm. There's no way for a bracelet worn like that to "face forward" with the design elements on the smooth side of the ovoid. Plus a bracelet sitting up that high will be sitting on a muscle, which would make the fit very difficult. So to me it seems that part of the question is... who decided that the bracelet should sit up that high? Did you and Julia discuss the possibility of your sending or tracing a bracelet that fits the way you wanted this one to fit?

Of course, none of that excuses the lack of communication on JKT's part. I've purchased from her in the past so I'm on her mailing list, and I'm aware that she has her daughter helping her now, taking care of much of the communication. Again not an excuse for her, for the lack of communication, just another possible complicating factor.

Do you have a resolution in mind? Perhaps giving her a specific option to react to would help get the discussion going.

I hope this works out well for you - good luck.
Hi VR - thanks for the post and your thoughts.

Just a clarification -perhaps I did not explain fully in my initial post when describing how the bracelet should be worn, let me explain further:
I did not ask for it to be worn high up on the forearm, in fact the opposite. If you imagine your forearm, from the inside of your elbow to the slimmest part of your wrist, and divide that into quarters :
the first quarter, starting closest to your wrist, is where it was agreed the bracelet would be made to fit - around 3" up the arm in my case (and I was told numerous times before and after fabrication that it fits great and stays put - it doesn't).
Considering the sizing has been made incorrectly, currently the bracelet sits up in the "quarter" closest to my elbow - clearly not desirable nor practical, as you mention. I understand this is perhaps how you believe I had asked for the bracelet..?

Furthermore, this is a hinged bracelet - not a bangle. Of course if it were a bangle of an open cuff, you could expect it to slip on and off your hand - but this is not the case with a hinged bracelet.

I hope this clarifies things a bit more?

I took detailed photos of my arm wearing a bangle on that represented the placement I was after. It also was very close to the size/width I was seeking. All of this was put in detailed Ppts for Julia, and Julia never mentioned any of the concerns you have described above - from the very start and for (almost) all of the process, she was very excited and enthusiastic about this piece. We exchanged hundreds of emails, for the finest details.

If at any time J had raised concerns with the functionality of my design requests, I would have happily gone in a different direction ;))
I feel that form, function and wearability are really the entire realm and responsibility of the jeweller or other professional, especially with a custom project; as consumers, we can purvey ideas, likes, concepts, influences etc - but in the end I don't look to micro-manage - I look to my jeweller to know their techniques, and to advise me on all the technical aspects and functional limitations of what I'd like made, kwim?



That also feeds into one of the main issues in this transaction I feel I should mention - that for a couple of years now, J and I had become essentially friends. You would perhaps be surprised by the casual nature of most of our correspondence! So, if Julia made a technical or functional- based design suggestion, and asked my opinion - well, its kind of like the master asking the pupil ::) Of course, I would always defer to her judgement calls, trusting her not only as the great jeweller I knew her to be, but also as a 'friend'.

That part has certainly been a major lesson.

You're correct, perhaps there could be a concern with her daughter being responsible for emails now.
It has been weeks, not days - but perhaps a call is the only way to know for sure.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts VR.
 

arjunajane

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Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

Aoife|1306081068|2927759 said:
I'm so sorry that your beautiful bracelet is unwearable, AJ. I sincerely hope that you and JKT can come to some kind of settlement that is mutually agreeable. It would be a real shame is something that is such a work of art became a source of anger every time you look at it, rather than something you enjoy and feel pride in.

Having said that, VRBeauty pinpointed what I think may be the issue with this particular piece. Any bracelet that is meant to be worn partially up the arm is problematical in terms of design, and I am wondering if part of why you haven't heard back from Julia is because she has no idea of how to solve the problem. When you (generalized "you") wear a heavy bracelet that far up the arm, it is not only the weight of the piece that becomes an issue, it is also the fact that the shape of the arm changes as you flex the muscles of your wrist and forearm. Creating a rigid bracelet that can stay in place as you move would be a real challenge, I think. The other issue is the one VR pointed out, which is that what constitutes the front of your forearm/wrist changes as you rotate your forearm. I used to wear a gold V-shaped bracelet halfway up my arm, and while it stayed in place if I held my arm still, as I moved it either dug into the flesh of my arm, or slid down around my wrist. Unlike fingers, forearms not only move vertically and horizontally, they twist. Quite the design headache.

Good luck, I hope you hear back from Julia soon. I'm so sad that this has turned into such an unpleasant process for you.
Thanks Aoife. I agree, it is such a shame as the bracelet does look so lovely, the bezel and gold work is extremely pretty.

This is also compounded for me, as I had expressly discussed with J on a number of occasions that this being such a different and ornate / feminine piece, out of my ordinary style - I was so excited about it that I had planned to only wear it for the first time on my wedding day. :blackeye: (I do not have a date set at this time - engaged 5 yrs). But I feel the outcome was just that bit more disappointing as I'd attached meaning and special anticipation to it....plus, who couldn't help working up their expectations when something that was originally supposed to take 3-4months ends up taking 14months to complete, lol! ::)

Aoife, I do see your point about bracelets on the forearm - however, please do read my response to VR above, I hope that clarifies a little?
I have never purchased a bracelet, Julia knew this. As mentioned, I had originally really wanted my 3 stone bezel ring, which would have saved me at least couple K (!)..but Julia was not comfortable producing that ring for me, for a couple of reasons. Hence, she suggested pendants or bracelets, and I chose bracelet as I've never owned a nice one, and don't ever wear pendants.

I completely appreciate the 'design headache' you've outlined, and you've explained it very well - but again, is this not the sole responsibility of the jeweller to anticipate these potential issues and advise the customer??! :confused:
I would never offer to publish any private correspondence with vendors, but I can assure you - a conversation like your main paragraph above never occurred, in 12 months of design and fabrication.
Julia would always express happiness and excitement over creating the project (for the most part) - but looking back with 20/20 vision, I now recognize a few of her emails earlier in the process do perhaps hint that she was not really confident in how to tackle the whole thing..

Being someone who didn't own as much as a charm or tennis bracelet, I wasn't able to anticipate any of the issues you describe myself, but trusted my jeweller and her positivity.
Hope that makes sense, and again cheers for the post.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

Wow, I see what you mean about the shape. The wider part of the oval should go across the wrist.

Has anyone else here had correspondence with her since you sent your recent emails? Could there be illness or some other emergency that has kept her from responding?
 

arjunajane

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Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

Circe|1306078731|2927749 said:
What kind of a resolution would you find acceptable? Do you simply want your money back, or do you want JKT to redo the work?

I went back to look at the thread you posted about the bracelet, and it's definitely beautiful ... but I can see how it would pose a challenge to wear. Making it wearable, due to the shape and the intricacy of the piercing would mean remaking it completely, I think. Is that something that would satisfy you? Because it sounds like you're disenchanted with the project overall now, and not just with its execution ....

ETA: Cross-posted with VRBeauty, and I have to say that you hit the mail on the head in terms of physiology: I was staring at my forearm, trying to figure out the fit. Those all seem like relevant questions/issues that would have definitely influence the design process, and that should be taken into account in the resolution ....
hey circe, thanks for posting.

In all honesty, and without going into all the details, Julia and I had a pretty significant falling out at the end of this project.
Without posting more info, I'm guessing folks will likely assume it was due to my behaviour - but I really shouldn't go into all the exchanges.
Suffice to say, things turned from casual, friendly, happy and supportive - to mean-spirited, aggressive and overly 'business-by-the-book' in a Very short time. I'm sure JKT has a different version of events - perspectives always vary when there's disagreements.
We ended the project on agreement I would not seek patronage from JKT in future, which I was happy with - however, that does not absolve the current responsibilities due to this piece, imho.

Disenchanted does kind of sum things up atm - I can still look at the bracelet and appreciate its appearance, but it by no means makes my heart go 'pitter-patter', like when I first saw the completed photos. And I could not imagine wearing it to my wedding, even if it were re-done..
I can't help but feel this has more than a bit to do with the negativity that the whole saga ended on, and my subsequent treatment by the vendor.
In order to create this thread, I spent almost a full day going throgh all of our emails from this project, to ensure I got my timelines, statements, facts, numbers etc very straight..and again, with hindsight, there are a number of occasions reading some emails when I really should have realized my patience and trust were pretty much being taken advantage of :(sad

I have tried to phone Julia just now, and I left a voicemail.
I know a number of folks have asked, but I think at least at this stage, before I know Julia's stance and mindset on the whole thing, I won't be presumptuous enough to make statements about an ideal resolution.

At this stage, I'd be more than happy with just a simple line of communication being re-opened. ;-)
 

klewis

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Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

Hi AJ,

I'm sorry this project has turned out this way, it's just a lovely design and I know how long you have waited for its completion but as you say, what use is it as an ornament.
if I were in this situation, and at this late stage - 14 months! - I would certainly not want the piece to be reworked. I would rather want to have the stones removed by a local jeweler and to return the bracelet to JKT for a full refund . If JKT had wanted to make this right she would have done so, or at least offered to, earlier than this and so now any reworking of the piece by her would seem less than willing and for me would change the way I felt about the finished bracelet.

K :wavey:
 

arjunajane

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Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

klewis|1306091351|2927847 said:
Hi AJ,

I'm sorry this project has turned out this way, it's just a lovely design and I know how long you have waited for its completion but as you say, what use is it as an ornament.
if I were in this situation, and at this late stage - 14 months! - I would certainly not want the piece to be reworked. I would rather want to have the stones removed by a local jeweler and to return the bracelet to JKT for a full refund . If JKT had wanted to make this right she would have done so, or at least offered to, earlier than this and so now any reworking of the piece by her would seem less than willing and for me would change the way I felt about the finished bracelet.

K :wavey:
hello my NZ friend! so good to 'see' you again I know this sounds lame, but I really have been meaning to catch up with you :wavey:

Thanks for the support - you know me and what I'm like..so if anyone really wants to know what's in my head, see above ☝ ::)
♡ cheers K. catch up soon, ya?
 

Novel

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
1,199
Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

klewis|1306091351|2927847 said:
Hi AJ,

I'm sorry this project has turned out this way, it's just a lovely design and I know how long you have waited for its completion but as you say, what use is it as an ornament.
if I were in this situation, and at this late stage - 14 months! - I would certainly not want the piece to be reworked. I would rather want to have the stones removed by a local jeweler and to return the bracelet to JKT for a full refund . If JKT had wanted to make this right she would have done so, or at least offered to, earlier than this and so now any reworking of the piece by her would seem less than willing and for me would change the way I felt about the finished bracelet.

K :wavey:
I have to agree with this. Especially since you've described the situation further, both the logistics of the bracelet itself and the manner in which business was done, I wouldn't want her to remake it and I wouldn't feel comfortable wearing it to my wedding, either.

I simply cannot understand why she would have made the bracelet oriented that way. It is boggling my mind.
 

arjunajane

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
9,758
Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

diamondseeker2006|1306091169|2927843 said:
Wow, I see what you mean about the shape. The wider part of the oval should go across the wrist.

Has anyone else here had correspondence with her since you sent your recent emails? Could there be illness or some other emergency that has kept her from responding?
Thanks DS.

You're right, illness or some other emergency could certainly have transpired over the last month..
As mentioned, I did just leave a voicemail, so we'll see where that goes..
 

junebug17

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
12,397
Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

I suppose the way the relationship ended may have something to do with her not getting back to you - I agree that doesn't absolve her of responsibility in this current issue, but unfortunately she may not hold the same opinion - she may have a moral obligation to resolve this, but I'm not sure she has a legal one. At any rate, I'm putting the cart before the horse, the first thing is to make contact with her. I hope she responds to your phone call, and that it's a productive response.
 

VRBeauty

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
10,271
Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

AJ - I really wasn't pointing fingers, just pointing out some of the challenges with a "push up" bracelet design. I do think the story of the evolution from the original request for a ring to the finished design has some bearing here, but ultimately yes, I also think a jeweler has a responsibility to let you know if you're requesting (or in this case, converging on) a design that just won't work.

I'm sorry that you've gone through a falling-out. I hope you hear from Julia soon, and that the two of you are able to reach an agreement. If not, I'd consider taking it up with your credit card company.

Just musing here... looking at the pictures it seems like it might be possible to have a jeweler "unweld" the face from the under-structure and then re-shape it into a more workable cuff or hinged bangle shape. A "push-up" cuff or bangle might be difficult though because of the flare on the top and bottom of the central motif - I think the flare could get uncomfortable pushed up on your arm. It might be possible though if the back was re-shaped to be convex, so that the flare part is raised up off your arm and doesn't interfere with the fit. The design work on the bracelet is beautiful and unique, and I hope you don't end up having to scrap it.
 

hawaiianorangetree

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
2,692
Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

klewis|1306091351|2927847 said:
Hi AJ,

I'm sorry this project has turned out this way, it's just a lovely design and I know how long you have waited for its completion but as you say, what use is it as an ornament.
if I were in this situation, and at this late stage - 14 months! - I would certainly not want the piece to be reworked. I would rather want to have the stones removed by a local jeweler and to return the bracelet to JKT for a full refund . If JKT had wanted to make this right she would have done so, or at least offered to, earlier than this and so now any reworking of the piece by her would seem less than willing and for me would change the way I felt about the finished bracelet.

K :wavey:

Hi AJ

I'm sorry that you are not happy with the bracelet. I agree with everything that klewis has said and if it were me, and possible, I would take out the stones and return the rest for a full refund and start again elsewhere.

I'm also sorry that she took advantage of your kind nature and that your relationship has soured. For me, there would be no rectifying this and I would just want to find an amicable solution and move on instead of trying to fix something that looks pretty unfixable anyway.

Good luck, I hope you get something sorted soon.
 

Aoife

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
1,779
Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

AJ, thank you for taking the time to describe your process with JKT, and how the bracelet was intended to be worn. Like you, I would have depended on the experience of the craftsman/woman to help me keep my design preferences within the range of what was technically doable, or to at least keep me informed of the challenges as they arose. Again, I'm so sorry that something that should have filled you with pleasure has been made so negative, and I truly hope for a resolution that is, if not agreeable, at least tolerable to both of you.
 

arjunajane

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
9,758
Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

VRBeauty|1306103791|2927949 said:
AJ - I really wasn't pointing fingers, just pointing out some of the challenges with a "push up" bracelet design. I do think the story of the evolution from the original request for a ring to the finished design has some bearing here, but ultimately yes, I also think a jeweler has a responsibility to let you know if you're requesting (or in this case, converging on) a design that just won't work.

I'm sorry that you've gone through a falling-out. I hope you hear from Julia soon, and that the two of you are able to reach an agreement. If not, I'd consider taking it up with your credit card company.

Just musing here... looking at the pictures it seems like it might be possible to have a jeweler "unweld" the face from the under-structure and then re-shape it into a more workable cuff or hinged bangle shape. A "push-up" cuff or bangle might be difficult though because of the flare on the top and bottom of the central motif - I think the flare could get uncomfortable pushed up on your arm. It might be possible though if the back was re-shaped to be convex, so that the flare part is raised up off your arm and doesn't interfere with the fit. The design work on the bracelet is beautiful and unique, and I hope you don't end up having to scrap it.
Hey VR,

I know you weren't - any my apologies if my reply came across a little terse.
Since I received the bracelet a number of weeks back, I was immediately disappointed, put it in a drawer out of sight - and have tried not to think about it again until now. So the whole issue, especially reading back through the emails, does have me simmering a bit - of course, none of that is directed at you or any other poster, so I apologized if a lil simmered over into my reply last night ;))

Thank you for the thoughts, I do appreciate them.

From what I understand, with the gems being set in those bezels, any major work is going to be very difficult.
I haven't looked into anything like what you've described, which could seem feasible - however at the moment the piece is still brand new and I don't feel I should have to throw good money after bad with a new jeweller - If you KWIM.
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

AJ I am not sure what to say but I hope you can get it resolved. I definitely noticed that the bracelet is shaped incorrectly...I would have noticed that even if you had not said it. It really looks like a lovely design though and beautiful gemstones so I hope it all works out for you.
 

arjunajane

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
9,758
Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

What is perhaps the most frustrating in all this, and if I can say so, really quite unprofessional behaviour - is that Julia is directly contravening her own shop Policies, as published online.

From JKT etsy store: http://www.etsy.com/shop/juliakaytaylor/policy

"Refunds and Exchanges

Returns: Returns will only be accepted for faulty craftsmanship. If this is the case, the item may be returned for repair or replacement only. (This does not include minor imperfections characteristic of handmade jewelry.)
Buyer must notify me within 2 days of receipt of item of any issue in this regard.

Re-sized rings are customized and non returnable.
In the event an issue arises that cannot be resolved by other means, a refund may be given minus labor and restocking fees.

Refunds will not be given due to damage or loss during shipping."

I am baffled as to how someone whom prides themselves on their (well-earned) reputation will not adhere to their own published policies in this situation.
 

VapidLapid

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
4,267
Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

I am so sorry to read this post. More than that I am sorry the relationship has already deteriorated so badly. It sounds like you had left things with Julia in such a way that you had agreed not to persue any further professional work with her, but that then later you started to seek a further re consideration of the bracelet. Im not saying that I think you are wrong to do so, actually I dont think that, but from her point of view, after agreeing to have no furthers, to come back at her about the bracelet could seem to her just harassment. That may be why she is not responding, she may see your emails as only baiting her.
Undoubtedly, the orientation of the oval shape of the interior of the bracelet is off by 90º. With your arm outstretched on the table before you the oval should be horizontal, in line with the cross-section of your arm (were one to cut it through there) and certainly not vertical. I would think Julia would have caught that long before the fabrication stage began. However, I can imagine situations where a designer and a customer work TOO closely. the designer wants to do the job and humors the customer, trying to give them everything they ask for, and the customer expects the designer to give them all that they ask for, but still to guide them away from the folly of their ideas before it is too late. I know that I would be very afraid to become a professional goldsmith taking on custom projects simply because I cannot do someone else's idea. I am not nor have I ever been a team player. Of course that is me as a hypothetical goldsmith; Julia is a professional and opens her doors to customer's enquiries. I think my point was too much collaboration with each side relying on the other to know what is and isn't right. Almost makes it into a scenario like a no-fault auto insurance claim where neither party is exactly guilty nor innocent either.
It sounds too, like many harsh things have been said on both sides, none of which can be taken back. Klewis's solution sounds most viable and fair to me. have the stones removed by a qualified local jeweler, send the bracelet back for refund and part ways.
Or if you want to be whimsical and absurdist about the whole thing, have her make another exactly like this one and connect the two with a few links at the bottom to make it into the pair of handcuffs it soooo wants to be! Then I guess you could still wear them on your wedding night?
 

TravelingGal

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
17,193
Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

Geez AJ, what a bummer.

I remember seeing the photos of the bracelet when you posted them. My thought was "pretty, but that doesn't look very wearable." And at the time, I had completely MISSED the N/S ovoid orientation of the bracelet. As another poster said, it boggles my mind that she would have made it that way. I mean, it looks like it would flip to the "natural" curve of your wrist causing it to sit completely incorrectly.

Did you notice this orientation before she sent it? I can understand if you missed it, because I certainly did.

Always two sides of the story, as we all know, but the basic orientation of the bracelet unless you specifically asked for it (which you say you did not) makes me think it's actually a defective product. A bulky bracelet like that simply should not have been made that way. It didn't have a prayer, even if it didn't slide off your wrist.

I'm curious as to why she couldn't do your 3 stone ring.

And I felt that there might be some disillusionment with JKT around here since Freke did a hit and run on the jewelry trends you hate thread saying she didn't like anything by JKT (if she responded, I missed the response, so apologies if I'm being blind.)

ETA, edited to correct "cents" to "sides"
 

TravelingGal

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Messages
17,193
Re: vent/request for advice-real problems with JKT custom pi

AJ, I went to look for the original thread I remember...

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/jkt-5-stone-bracelet-finally-completed.152020/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/jkt-5-stone-bracelet-finally-completed.152020/[/URL]

I still think the bracelet is very pretty - but I remember why I had thought it wouldn't be very wearable. JKT took a photo of the bracelet on her arm and it was HUGE (the bracelet, not her arm)! It was hard to grasp scale it was until I saw that photo, and the bracelet is sitting quite far up her arm. Did this give you pause at all?
 
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