[Urgent] Sapphire Advice

[jercker]

Attaching more in detail photos from the circled up stones yesterday (only for your reference). It’s always two photos for each stone in slightly different lighting. I think the cut on some of them isnt great tbh while others look ok.

 

[Daze]

@jercker - I’m struggling to find any redeeming qualities about those stones. Each one would be a compromise in all areas, the cut, clarity and colour of each is lacking imo.
I think number 2 could arguably be seen to have the best saturation of colour but the window and inclusions are difficult to ignore.

Did you ask your jeweller whether they had any other more vivid saturated options or were these the best they can offer?

 

[jercker]

Agree - I dont plan to go with these options. If I had to choose form the above it would be the last one probably but I told my jeweler to look for better cut more saturated/ intense stones.

 

[Rfisher]

Just to show how we all have different tastes/opinions and there’s no right wrong

I’d pick the dark one ( if it truly weren’t crumby looking due to surface reaching inclusions or scratches, maybe it’s smudges) from post 11, over these lastest ones. If I had to pick from the bunch.

 

[jercker]

Indeed - I like the dark blue very much but besides the scratches or whatever it is on the table I am a bit concerned of the stone getting blacked out in more indirect lightning (asked for another photo with indirect light). Looking back I also think the second video of my first post has a decent colour saturation as well imo

 

[Rfisher]

Can you go to see these on person next to your diamond, and walk them around to different areas? Are they that local to you?

 

[jercker]

No, unfortunately I cant - that’s one of the key issues which I referred to earlier (logistics).

 

[Rfisher]

Oops. Sorry. I thought they were local to you.

 

[Daze]

I assumed they were local too and this was why you wanted to buy from this vendor only.
Hopefully they will be able to pull out something much livelier for you!

 

[jercker]

My issue is that I live in Latin America where it's hard to find a somewhat trustworthy and capable jeweler. It would be less of an issue if it was just for a simple diamond ring which I can buy online but given I am looking to get a somewhat complex toi et moi ring done with a diamond and a sapphire as centerstones and few more diamonds as side stones, I had to outsource the whole project to a more trustworthy jeweler in the US who also has the resources to get sth like this done. The more parties are brought into this (i.e., buying a stone from A and the other one from B) the more complicated it gets. So with regards to this I am somehow a bit constrained otherwise I would have directly followed all your advise and bought online from one of the platforms you suggested.

 

[Daze]

@jercker - ahhhh I see. Yes I can understand that. Jewellery buying and designing should be an enjoyable experience and not stressful.
I really hope this jeweller is able to find you something spectacular that you adore.
Keep coming back to show us what they find.

@Rfisher - off topic and I’m sure you’ve heard this many times before but I just wanted to say that the Sapphire ring in your avatar is probably my absolute favourite ring on PS!
It’s also the first ring I showed my partner which made her say WOW. As opposed to her usual ‘meh they all look the same to me’ response (doesn’t share my love of jewellery at all).
I’ve seen a lot of lovely flower rings but yours is something special!

 

[Avondale]

Well, jewellers have sources, they visit gem shows, they have access to stones. A jeweller may choose to stock mostly sub-par stones for financial reasons, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re unable to source anything of higher quality.

If I were you, I’d discuss what I want with the jeweller. I’d send them pictures, describe in detail what I envision. They can then give you an idea how much it will cost. And the rest is just giving it time, giving the jeweller time to find the right stone for you. It’s totally doable, just as long as you’re not pressed for time, you’re both on the same page and they understand what it is that you’re after.

 

[Rfisher]

Awww Thank You @Daze
:blush:

 

[jercker]

All - as a follow up to this thread and for your reference, this is the idea for the actual ring.

The diamond here is a OEC. The description mentions a total carat weight of 1.23ct incl. side stones with the sapphire having a ct weight of 1.35. The ring size is apparently US 7.5. As I am looking for a ring size of US 6.5 which is roughly 0.8mm smaller, I was considering a 0.8ct center diamond (round brilliant cut) and a 1.1-1.2ct sapphire (square cushion cut).

Would you agree with these measurements to get the same visual effect? I like that the full finger width is pretty much covered with stones incl. the two larger sidestones.

Also what would you consider for the ideal band width - the description mentions 1.4mm which I am not sure about given the pave setting. However, I feel if it would be increased to 1.8mm, the ring might look bulkier.

Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks so much in advance.

1920s French Sapphire Diamond Gold Toi et Moi Ring at 1stDibs | toi et moi ring sapphire, diamond and sapphire toi et moi ring, moi et toi ring

View this item and discover similar for sale at 1stDibs - Ring in 18 carat white gold, eagle's head hallmark. This splendid antique sapphire and diamond ring features a claw set brilliant antique cut diamond and

www.1stdibs.com

 

[Rfisher]

I would not think a 1.8 shank would look bulky at all for a bypass /toi et moi- far from it.
Diamdb.com is a good resource to plug in your stone diameter, your ring size, your finger length, and the shank width to get a visual approximation and compare different options like the 1.4 vs 1.8 shank.
You can’t do your exact two stone set up, but you can get a good feel imagining it, or you can do a little cut and paste to see how much finger coverage those mm stones will give your finger size.

 

[jercker]

All - following up on this, what do you think of tis stone? Grateful for your comments and thoughts, please. Thanks a lot in advance.

https://imgur.com/a/7mCw6D5

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I think this stone will be very dark in normal lighting.

 

[VividRed]

It will likely look like a black square in most lights…

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Too dark and has too much extinction. It will darken more when set.
Aim for a shade to a shade and a half lighter and as saturated as you can find. It's the best way to get a darker color without having it black out/extinction present as black in most lighting.

 

[jercker]

Thanks a lot for your help - attaching teo more videos of the stone in direct and indirect lightning. Any further thoughts?

https://imgur.com/a/JxhhPYC

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Much much much too dark and this is in full blown sunlight too.

Unless you have a special affinity for this stone I wouldn’t buy it. It is very dark!

 

[Avondale]

I concur with the others. It will be damn near black almost all of the time. Is this something you'd be okay with?

The flashes of colour that are visible are truly beautiful - vibrant, strong, saturated blue. With how dark it is, the price should also be conveniently low. And if you positively adore it and the aesthetic fits you, then sure, get it. Just be sure that you love it and you're not overpaying for it.

 

[jercker]

Thanks all - they just got back to me with a few other options. Conscious of the above advice to take 1-2 shades lighter vs what someone is looking for given a darkening effect once set I believe there should be some decent options within these.

Let me know your thoughts please.

Thanks a lot

https://imgur.com/a/U26jMRl

 

[Avondale]

Okay, so...

First, I'll assume that the directional light doesn't do the stones justice, because in the videos basically all of them look... not the best. But from what I'm able to see...

Box 1
Left round - windowed, greyish
Right round - more grey than blue
Cushion - not sure if windowed, I think I see colour zoning

Box 2
Both cushions are greyish, and I don't know if it's the cut or the light, but for that light colour they somehow still manage to seem almost black even in the box.

Box 3
These two have better colour and I imagine that's why they were paired in a shared box. They seem to be about equal in terms of saturation, but the right one's tone seems to be a smidgen brighter. It still seems very dark in the video, but again, if that's due to the directional light from above, maybe it's better in person.

 

[jercker]

Thanks a lot - I would tend to agree with your assessment. What’s your take on the stone in the tweener (ie last video)?

 

[Avondale]

What’s your take on the stone in the tweener (ie last video)?

I honestly thought it was one of the two stones from the third box, so that says it, I guess.

Were they actually better looking in person than they are in the video?

 

[jercker]

Yes it is the left stone of the last box (ie the left stone of these two in the video here). They are going to cut the stone to make it match the measurements of the diamond center stone. I think both have decent saturation but not sure between the two - also if they further cut the stone to make it match the diamond measurements, do you see any issues with it? Am thinking if there are risks of the stone ending up with windows etc. Grateful for your thoughts.

https://imgur.com/a/EbGEa3l

 

[Avondale]

I don't have experience with recutting. Some people here have had their stones recut, so one thing you could do is just search the forum and browse through the old discussions. From what little I've learned here, it's a bit of a risky business because you never know what the result will be. A recut could affect the colour of the stone and change it. I doubt they would create a window, but I guess it's always possible that the sapphire ends up in incompetent hands. As far as I know, a recut is usually done to fix issues and flaws in the stone and to improve colour, light return, close windowing, fix extinction and so on, and there are lapidaries who take on such projects with great success.

In any case, is it necessary to recut the stone? It's not a requirement for the two stones to be identical for a project like yours, unless that's strictly the vision that you have.

As for choosing between the two stones - go with whichever of the two you like more. The differences are subtle. Both are nicely saturated, they just differ a bit in terms of the specific colour hue. So really, this is a matter of personal taste, and you should go with the one you enjoy more. And if you don't think you'd enjoy either of them, then go with something else or keep searching.

 

[jercker]

Those are great points! Btw conscious of the difference in density between sapphires and diamonds, does a sapphire with same measurements as a diamond look the same size? I am wondering given the high light reflection of a round brilliant cut diamond potentially making the stone look larger vs a sapphire with the same measurements? Any thoughts?

 

[Avondale]

If they have the same carat weight (ex. both 1ct), the sapphire will not just look smaller, it will be smaller. If the dimensions are the same (say, both are 5mm), the sapphire will be heavier. Don’t think the diamond sparkle will create such a significant optical illusion, but I don’t own such a ring. However, I do remember one similar ring being listed for sale here in the preloved section. I’ll try to find it.