[Urgent] Sapphire Advice

[jercker]

Hi all -

I am currently in the process of selecting a sapphire for a „toi et moi“ ring in combination with a diamond.

The diamond is a 0.81 G VS2 (round cut) no fluorescence and the plan is to pair it with a rounded square cushion sapphire with similar measurements (~5.9mm).

While I am a bit more proficient with diamonds this will be the first sapphire I‘ll buy. Having spoken with friends and read through some threads I am looking to get a ~1.1 eyeclean sapphire from Ceylon with a nice cornflower blue colour.

However, given the combination with the diamond I am wondering if a more intense royal blue would be more appropriate here for contrast reasons. I am adding videos of two different stones my jeweler sent me - any thoughts?

Also given this will be the first sapphire I will buy, any general advice & things you would recommend me?

Thanks a lot in advance.

Link to videos of two stones

https://imgur.com/a/aikjX9N

 

[Rfisher]

I’m not quite sure if ‘more appropriate’ applies?

Some people like darker blue, some like lighter, some like medium. Some only want vivid saturation, or nothing at all. Some only like major scintillation in their sapphires - some like the sleepy ones, some like those that do both.

Buy what your eye enjoys, and your wallet approves.

Sappphire and diamond toi et moi

Your two photos are of the two sapphires, correct?
Hard to comment opinion much as it looks that different lighting has been used on each.
Typically sapphires are known to behave differently/ color shift/ desaturate in different lighting sources/environments.
Not that many don’t. Some can be pretty dramatic and be lovely. Some can be dramatic and depressing.

Pick the one that you like it’s look of in most of multiple lighting environments. Have them shown to you with the sapphires sitting close to each other on the hand.

 

[Daze]

Your ring idea sounds lovely.

Regarding your question over royal blue vs cornflower, I would almost always suggest a nicely saturated medium blue cornflower over a royal blue.

Royal blues tend to suffer the dreaded ‘black out’ effect far too often for my taste.
Would you be comfortable with a stone that goes dark and loses its colour in less than optimum lighting conditions? For example indoor light. If no then definitely don’t go for royal blue - a true cornflower blue stone really knocks a royal blue out of the water in my humble opinion.

Although of course both would still look lovely.
It’s all about which speaks to you the most and which you find the most attractive.

 

[jercker]

Thanks both - agree with both of you. Is it just me or does the first stone have a window and a bit of a purple touch rather than a pure blue? Even though it shouldnt be the case I feel everyone has a bit of a different understanding/ perspective on what a true cornflower blue looks like. For me the second stone looks like a medium vivid blue/ intense cornflower with a slight lack of transparency vs the first one - thoughts?

 

[Avondale]

Of the two you're showing I prefer the royal blue for the superior colour saturation. The cornflower one shows too much grey and such dark areas on a light coloured stone is a huge pet peeve for me.

Aside from the two stones you're considering, the choice between cornflower (or lighter) and royal (or darker) blue is a matter of personal preference. There are many gorgeous shades of blue and I find them all beautiful, so I think your ring will look great with any of the two.

As for general advice, I'd say drop the origin requirement. No reason to limit yourself, Sri Lanka isn't the only place that produces breath-taking sapphires.

 

[Daze]

As for general advice:

• As Rfisher has already suggested, ask to see the stone in various lighting conditions, this is very important due to the nature of corundum being shifty!
• Decide whether you are okay with heat treated stones or whether you would rather it be untreated (nothing wrong with heated at all if you’re not a purist but be sure you aren’t paying untreated prices)
• If untreated make sure the stone comes with a reputable certificate stating it is indeed untreated.
• Ascertain whether the stone has any eye visible inclusions or inclusions that may affect the durability of the stone when being set and in the future.
• Shop around. Look at a variety of stones and see how they compare.

Did the seller say these were both examples of cornflower? I’m not sure I would class either of those stones as ‘cornflowe blue’’ but of course that definition varies from person to person.

I favour the second a lot more as it looks more vibrant on my screen and less grey but that could be due to the different lighting environments used. I echo what Rfisher said about needing to see them in the same environment.

 

[Daze]

And yes I do see a ever so slight tilt window with the first stone but that may close up when set. Lots of sapphires have tilt windowing.

I also see a purple undertone. This is quite common though and unless you are seeking a pure blue it wouldn’t really bother me. I actually quite like a purple tint in blues.
I still think the second has more ‘life to it‘ though. But again this may be the environment.

Do you have anymore photos or videos of stones?

 

[jercker]

Thanks all - attaching another photo of the first one for reference.

To me the second stone looks more high quality in terms of blue, saturation, cut, etc. - both are heat treated. In terms of pricing what do you think is a fair prixe tag for both - they are 1.07 and 1.04 ct.

 

[Daze]

That picture helps a lot. I completely agree with you about that stone. It doesn’t have the quality you would want for your beautiful ring.

It’s a big nope from me.

The colour is drab and whilst I am not opposed to colour zoning and extinction in all stones (my own beloved imperfect sapphire has both to a degree) I think the underlying colour is not great. It just doesn’t have any sort of wow factor and to be not at all technical for a moment - the stone lacks ‘heart’ if that makes any kind of sense haha

I would pass on that one for sure.

Would be interested to see how the second stone looks In the same lighting?

 

[Daze]

As to what a fair price would be for it I think a more experienced PSer would need to chime in on that. Are you buying direct from a Sri Lankan seller?

 

[jercker]

Any thoughts on these stones here?

Video of the single stone on the hand as well for reference.

https://imgur.com/a/pF1JhuE

 

[Daze]

@jercker The majority of those stones appear to suffer from quite significant windowing and I don’t think most of them are tilt windows either.
How sensitive are you to windows?

The hand shot stone from the video doesn’t appear to have one though but its showing darker, more royal blue to my eyes and not very transparent. I worry it would look darker still when set. I do find the colour pleasing if darker more royal blue is what you’re now leaning towards though.

Have any of the stones you’ve seen really grabbed you and said they are the one?

 

[jercker]

Fully agree with you - that’s my key concern with the one on the video. I like the blue tone quite a lot but i‘d like some more transparency tbh. From the other stones i agree most of them don’t convince me but I think the ones circled up are worth further exploring.

 

[Daze]

@jercker I like the shape of the circled stones but the two on the bottom row give me pause because you can see a lot of the container through the stone (see my red circles) and I’m not sure that level of window would close up once set.

The one above those might possibly have an eye visible inclusion where I circled.
Not a deal breaker for some as I do like inclusions but not to the point that they are distracting. Can’t tell whether that would be the case with this stone, i agree you’d need to see more photos/videos to decide that.

It’s 3.30am here so am off to bed but am invested in this now hahaha so I will be back to see what you decide and what others think tomorrow.

 

[lovedogs]

Honestly I'm not a fan of either option.

 

[Daze]

@lovedogs - agreed! @jercker - I still think you can do better! moi et toi ring’s are special and you want a stone that really sings and compliments the diamond. Colour is king! Definitely do not compromise on a grey undertoned stone you do not completely adore.

Before I found PS I made such terrible choices, and since I can’t afford to purchase jewellery for myself very often I do so wish I had found this forum sooner and had done what you are doing now by asking advice before buying.
……live and learn!

 

[lovedogs]

These are much nicer options (just as examples). I think the choices you have are grey/dull

Round Natural Blue Sapphire Modified "Roulette" Cut | 1.06cts - Gemfix

Royal Blue Natural Sapphire Round Modified Brilliant Cut 1 carat

gemfix.com

Natural Royal Blue Sapphire Round "Roulette" Cut | 1.27cts | #11-1347 - Gemfix

Round Natural Blue Sapphire Modified Brilliant Cut

gemfix.com

 

[Daze]

@lovedogs - i saw these when I had a quick look and agree they are swoon worthy and beautifully cut. No grey and no windowing. Chefs kiss. But the price made me wince. Good examples of you get what you pay for.

@jercker - it would help if you could tell us a budget for the stone as the members on here are like wizards and could help find something beautiful.
I highly recommend taking a look at Dana’s stones at mastercut gems aswell. Not sure if he has anything close to what you’re looking for at the moment but it’s always worth an ask as his stones are lovely and very well priced.

Ha so much for going to bed. I think it was safer when I just spent years lurking and soaking up the knowledge. Now that I‘ve gathered courage to start posting I can‘t seem to stop.

 

[Bron357]

Trust me, buy the best sapphire you can, wait and save more if you have to.
The gemfix sapphires are superb and worth the money.
All your other examples are drab, lacking in intensity. If they look drab under store lighting, they look worse in office or normal “at home” lights.
and remember the difference in specific gravity.
For a sapphire to look around the same size as a diamond it needs to weigh 20% ish more.

 

[jercker]

Thanks all - really appreciate your input here. Agree with you, that none of these stones is actually really appropriate for this project. As some of you already mention sometimes we are pressured by time and make wrong decisions which might seem good in the moment. I will tell my jeweler to keep looking for better, more saturated options and keep you all updated! The gemfix stones seem to be next level in terms of color saturation and cut but a bit on the higher end in terms of pricing. Will however try to find similar options at a slightly lower price.

 

[jercker]

Trust me, buy the best sapphire you can, wait and save more if you have to.
The gemfix sapphires are superb and worth the money.
All your other examples are drab, lacking in intensity. If they look drab under store lighting, they look worse in office or normal “at home” lights.
and remember the difference in specific gravity.
For a sapphire to look around the same size as a diamond it needs to weigh 20% ish more.

Agreed re the difference in size/ carat weight - that's why I am looking for c.1.1ct sapphires in order to match the 0.8ct diamond.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

I always have to budget and I think this source is a good one.
They have some nice stones very close to what you're looking for for half the price. Very reasonable and nicely cut.

Adamant Gems: High quality sapphires and other natural gems

Fine quality gemstones from Sri Lanka and East Africa. Ceylon blue sapphires, pink sapphires, yellow sapphires, fancy sapphires, chrysoberyls, spinels, tourmalines, zircons, garnets and other natural gems.

www.adamantgems.com

Adamant Gems: High quality sapphires and other natural gems

Fine quality gemstones from Sri Lanka and East Africa. Ceylon blue sapphires, pink sapphires, yellow sapphires, fancy sapphires, chrysoberyls, spinels, tourmalines, zircons, garnets and other natural gems.

www.adamantgems.com

Adamant Gems: High quality sapphires and other natural gems

Fine quality gemstones from Sri Lanka and East Africa. Ceylon blue sapphires, pink sapphires, yellow sapphires, fancy sapphires, chrysoberyls, spinels, tourmalines, zircons, garnets and other natural gems.

www.adamantgems.com

 

[lovedogs]

Thanks all - really appreciate your input here. Agree with you, that none of these stones is actually really appropriate for this project. As some of you already mention sometimes we are pressured by time and make wrong decisions which might seem good in the moment. I will tell my jeweler to keep looking for better, more saturated options and keep you all updated! The gemfix stones seem to be next level in terms of color saturation and cut but a bit on the higher end in terms of pricing. Will however try to find similar options at a slightly lower price.

What is your budget? We are happy to help!

 

[Daze]

@jercker - the stones ItsMainleyYou has posted are really beautiful and very well priced for their quality.

I’m getting the impression that you seem intent on using that specific jeweller to source your stone. Is there a reason for this? because you truly will get a much better stone elsewhere and the ladies and gents here will be able to help you find it.

Honestly please don’t settle. I’ve done so before and almost always regretted it!
Don‘t let a jeweller cajole you into using one of their inferior stones just because they are making the setting.

 

[lovedogs]

@jercker - the stones ItsMainleyYou has posted are really beautiful and very well priced for their quality.

I’m getting the impression that you seem intent on using that specific jeweller to source your stone. Is there a reason for this? because you truly will get a much better stone elsewhere and the ladies and gents here will be able to help you find it.

Honestly please don’t settle. I’ve done so before and almost always regretted it!
Don‘t let a jeweller cajole you into using one of their inferior stones just because they are making the setting.

This!!!!! I remember the same thing happened w OPs diamond and I don't want to see it happen w the sapphire too

 

[jercker]

Thanks - I already expressed to the jeweler that I need a much better sapphire with a more intense and saturated blue. I understand your concern and I might indeed be better off by buying the stone separately but there are a number of logistical issues for me when doing so (especially if the vendor is outside the US in this case) which is also why I bought the diamond through him (took me a while given I rejected a lot of triple xxx stones) - @lovedogs might be right that the diamond isn't the perfect TIC cut but I believe it has good enough proportions and strong light performance for me to suffice. I will not rush this and keep you updated on the various stones that will be offered to me

 

[Daze]

@jercker - I understand that buying internationally can be daunting. But don’t let apprehension stop you from purchasing a fabulous stone. Local shops usually just do not have access to the same type of quality stones. And they often charge silly prices for poor quality.

My past experience and disappointments are strongly urging you to listen to @lovedogs, @ItsMainelyYou and @Bron357 as they have been here a long time and know what they are talking about!

Also as @Avondale already mentioned, does it have to be from Sri Lanka? Other places have incredible sapphires too. I’ve recently seen some fabulous blues from Madagascar. Burma blues are stunning too but too rich for my blood price wise. Don’t limit yourself I guess is what I am trying to say. Gorgeous sapphires come from many locals.

However if you really are insistent on purchasing from this store then I’m sure we will be able to help you choose the best one they have to offer.

 

[Rfisher]

@jercker
If you want to online price compare within USA with what you are being offered locally
Go to ‘the natural sapphire company’
Look up their loose blue sapphires
Filter to your desired shape and carat weight.

I’m not saying you should definitely buy from them. But they have (usually) multiple pictures/videos. It’s all laid out concisely to see sometimes easily why one stone is priced higher to one the same size. Whether it’s a wonky shape, uneven color, not so performing faceting, tone & saturation. You can see windows (and inevitable tilt windows) as well as zoning and off center pavilions in action. The videos are usually a bit more true to color than the studio shots - but still be aware color shifting /desaturating in different lighting is common. Most are taken in the most flattering lighting. And, indeed, sometimes cameras/monitors just don’t capture the real color. On purpose or not.
A learning tool. To help point out some plusses and minuses for your own taste. To help you help your jeweler find/source what you have in your minds eye?

note that places like TNSC pad their prices to reflect multiple planned %off sales a year. Like 10-15 if not even higher (20) at times.

Only you can guess if your local jeweler might get snippy or charge you more for setting a stone you don’t buy from them. One way to bridge the gap is to possibly find a stone you like on Pearlmans Jewelers, and see if it’s also listed at gem2000, who only sells to the trade. If it is listed there- then your local jeweler should be able to source that same stone as well.

Most of us here make concessions in one parameter or another with budget in mind. Very few of us have perfect trade ideal ones.

Happy hunting!

 

[Daze]

@Rfisher - this is really fab advice.

I have negative feelings towards TNSC because I find them overpriced and a wee bit shady but you’re right that it’s a good source of comparison within the US and they have such a large inventory and multiple videos.

Couldn‘t agree more about having to make concessions. I am cursed with size 10 baby carrot fingers but have never and will never have the money to furnish such large finger
real estate with the trade ideal big blueberry i would like.
I own the wonkiest sapphire, farrr from ideal.

I hope OP doesn’t think I am being negative about their choices thus far. I just want to make sure they get the best for their budget regardless of how big or small!

 

[Gloria27]

sapphirecorner - Etsy UK

Shop Sapphire Jewelry & Natural Ceylon Sapphires by sapphirecorner located in Colombo, Sri Lanka. Top shop for gifts. Buyers bought gifts from this shop and gave them 5-star reviews!

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