shape
carat
color
clarity

Troy Davis Executed

iheartscience

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TooPatient|1316798771|3023944 said:
thing2of2|1316785923|3023780 said:
dragonfly411|1316784327|3023768 said:
thing2of2|1316736035|3023435 said:
Dancing Fire|1316734586|3023420 said:
thing2...the NYT is way too left.. :tongue: try watching Fox news... :devil:
btw; you Dems have one good candidate but too bad that she ain't running for President in 2012... :(sad

Funny thing about facts: they're not liberal or conservative-they just ARE. That's something the current anti-intellectual, anti-science, anti-REALITY Republicans seem to forget.

I love how you are talking about facts, but then say that Republicans are anti-reality. Where's the fact in that? Please do tell. :rolleyes:

General Republican Party stances:
1. They deny that climate change is caused by humans. What little scientific evidence there is shows this. The rest of the "data" was falsified.
2. They don't believe in evolution. Says who? All of the people at the conventions I attend do in fact believe in evolution.
3. They push for abstinence-only education, despite the fact that evidence and basic logic show it doesn't work. Not around here we don't. Parents should be able to teach their kids when and how is right for them. Schools should stay out of it. (VERY different from abstinence-only)

Not to mention the other gems such as:
1. President Obama was born in Kenya and is part of a vast conspiracy that began 50 years ago at his birth. Huh? Sure there are some, but I don't think even a majority believe this.
2. President Obama is Muslim. (To which I say, so what if he is? Last I checked, being Muslim is legal in the U.S., no matter what some Republicans would want.) Of course he is a Muslim. He went to a school where they followed Muslim traditions. By Muslim tradition, the mere act of saying the correct prayer (sorry, can't remember off the top of my head what it is called) converts you to Muslim. Is it a big deal? NO. With the exception of a few people who spoke on the tv/radio, I haven't heard anyone with an issue here.

Do you want citations? Because I will gladly provide those as well.

Still waiting on you to explain how President Obama is irresponsible! :wavey:

Answered some "generalizations" in-line in the quote above.

My issue with politics on all sides is that people get so connected with "their side" that facts get blurred and twisted to fit some view of the world or other people. MOST of the time, I agree with the Republican candidate but when I see something that doesn't add up I am quite happy to discuss/debate it with others and (given a chance) will question the politician directly. Facts are facts. Period. They should be as accurate and complete as possible. Neither side should be let to get away with half-truths or lies to suit their politics.

Too lazy to bother with your "answers." But they do nothing to persuade me that Republicans are interested in facts, science and evidence.

ETA Your answer got even better after I quoted you! Darn! But thanks for the LOLZ!
 

iheartscience

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Dancing Fire|1316799720|3023961 said:
[quote="thing2of2|

Any more questions for me?

yes,will Hillary run for President?[/quote]

Ha, doubtful, but I do love Hillary! I wanted her to be the nominee in 2008, although President Obama won me over eventually.
 

Dancing Fire

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Mayk|1316798057|3023933 said:
This thread is a perfect example of why we have the issues in the senate and congree we have... No one can find the middle and everyone is bent on proving the other side wrong and it's their fault. Bottom line... Our country is in trouble we need reform for social security and we need a tax structure where EVERBODY pays not just the rich.. We need jobs and a rescue for housing... Not to mention the needs of our military protecting us or God forbid educating our children the future leaders of our country if there is anything left to run. Our President's approval rating is sinking faster than a diamond in a bucket of water and it is sinking for a reason. Even his own party is bailing. We need someone in the white house from the private sector who understands the basic needs of running a business where you use what's coming in to pay the bills. Everyone should pay taxes nor just the "rich" and ENTITLEMENT programs need to be revamped.
:appl: :appl:
 

Dancing Fire

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thing2of2|1316800078|3023966 said:
Dancing Fire|1316799720|3023961 said:
[quote="thing2of2|

Any more questions for me?

yes,will Hillary run for President?

Ha, doubtful, but I do love Hillary! I wanted her to be the nominee in 2008, although President Obama won me over eventually.[/quote]
too bad b/c she's the best player on your team... ;))
 

TooPatient

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thing2of2|1316800031|3023964 said:
Too lazy to bother with your "answers." But they do nothing to persuade me that Republicans are interested in facts, science and evidence.

ETA Your answer got even better after I quoted you! Darn! But thanks for the LOLZ!

Just wanted to clarify my "answers" and the edit since I re-read and I could see potential for ambiguity.

I have NO problem with a Muslim (or anyone of any other faith for that matter) being president of the US. We have the freedom to follow or not follow the beliefs of our choosing in this country and I think that right extends to everyone. All of the people I have talked with have also had no issue with him being/not-being Muslim.

The quoted bits I added in the edit were just for reference. Since he did attend a school and would have said the prayers every day (including the bit that would convert a person), according to Muslim tradition he is Muslim. Does he believe in those traditions? I don't know and I don't care. It is his choice and his personal life. Does he view himself a Muslim? Again, I don't know and I don't care -- his personal choice.
 

iheartscience

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TooPatient|1316800916|3023981 said:
thing2of2|1316800031|3023964 said:
Too lazy to bother with your "answers." But they do nothing to persuade me that Republicans are interested in facts, science and evidence.

ETA Your answer got even better after I quoted you! Darn! But thanks for the LOLZ!

Just wanted to clarify my "answers" and the edit since I re-read and I could see potential for ambiguity.

I have NO problem with a Muslim (or anyone of any other faith for that matter) being president of the US. We have the freedom to follow or not follow the beliefs of our choosing in this country and I think that right extends to everyone. All of the people I have talked with have also had no issue with him being/not-being Muslim.

The quoted bits I added in the edit were just for reference. Since he did attend a school and would have said the prayers every day (including the bit that would convert a person), according to Muslim tradition he is Muslim. Does he believe in those traditions? I don't know and I don't care. It is his choice and his personal life. Does he view himself a Muslim? Again, I don't know and I don't care -- his personal choice.

Right, but you're just making things up. You have no evidence that he said the Muslim prayers to convert. It's all wild supposition on your part, and the part of whatever tinfoil hat website you got it form.

President Obama has said multiple times that he is Christian, attends Christian church, etc. The whole "I don't know what he believes!"/"I'll take him at his word!" is a ridiculous answer that many elected Republican officials have used in regards to President Obama's citizenship and religion. It's a bigoted, xenophobic, cop out answer designed to impart uncertainty of his "American-ness" and to paint him as an other.
 

MissStepcut

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It's pretty frustrating to watch a nuanced and educated discussion of our criminal justice system and government break down into a birther debate. I guess the lowest common denominator always prevails.
 

iheartscience

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MissStepcut|1316802485|3024004 said:
It's pretty frustrating to watch a nuanced and educated discussion of our criminal justice system and government break down into a birther debate. I guess the lowest common denominator always prevails.

Indeed! This is America, after all.
 

MissStepcut

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thing2of2|1316802794|3024008 said:
MissStepcut|1316802485|3024004 said:
It's pretty frustrating to watch a nuanced and educated discussion of our criminal justice system and government break down into a birther debate. I guess the lowest common denominator always prevails.

Indeed! This is America, after all.
Your strawman arguments led the charge. But I guess that's the discussion you want to have.
 

TooPatient

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thing2of2|1316801338|3023987 said:
TooPatient|1316800916|3023981 said:
thing2of2|1316800031|3023964 said:
Too lazy to bother with your "answers." But they do nothing to persuade me that Republicans are interested in facts, science and evidence.

ETA Your answer got even better after I quoted you! Darn! But thanks for the LOLZ!

Just wanted to clarify my "answers" and the edit since I re-read and I could see potential for ambiguity.

I have NO problem with a Muslim (or anyone of any other faith for that matter) being president of the US. We have the freedom to follow or not follow the beliefs of our choosing in this country and I think that right extends to everyone. All of the people I have talked with have also had no issue with him being/not-being Muslim.

The quoted bits I added in the edit were just for reference. Since he did attend a school and would have said the prayers every day (including the bit that would convert a person), according to Muslim tradition he is Muslim. Does he believe in those traditions? I don't know and I don't care. It is his choice and his personal life. Does he view himself a Muslim? Again, I don't know and I don't care -- his personal choice.

Right, but you're just making things up. You have no evidence that he said the Muslim prayers to convert. It's all wild supposition on your part, and the part of whatever tinfoil hat website you got it form.

President Obama has said multiple times that he is Christian, attends Christian church, etc. The whole "I don't know what he believes!"/"I'll take him at his word!" is a ridiculous answer that many elected Republican officials have used in regards to President Obama's citizenship and religion. It's a bigoted, xenophobic, cop out answer designed to impart uncertainty of his "American-ness" and to paint him as an other.

Simple statement of fact. It is a fact that the only thing needed to convert is a short section of prayer. It is a fact that that short section is in the prayers that are said daily (multiple times). It is a fact that he attended a school that had students recite the daily prayers.

I don't care what religion, color, gender, or whatever he is. I've got friends from all around the world of all sorts of faiths (including Muslims). Really just don't care.
I also don't think that he sees himself as Muslim. The prayers were recited in school where he had no choice to say or not say them. His parents sent him to that school and he had to do as he was told. Period.

The only reason I even mentioned was because of the statement you made. I was attempting to explain why there are people who do in fact think that he is Muslim (and DON'T care) and the reasoning behind it.
Since the rest of my answers to your statements are based on my observations of the people I have personally had contact with, I could not very well link any supporting evidence. The requiremtents for conversion are a fact. As a fact, I did the best I could to provide the supporting evidence so that anyone who is interested can look up the details for themselves.

I like citations wherever possible. Just how I am.
 

iheartscience

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MissStepcut|1316802915|3024011 said:
thing2of2|1316802794|3024008 said:
MissStepcut|1316802485|3024004 said:
It's pretty frustrating to watch a nuanced and educated discussion of our criminal justice system and government break down into a birther debate. I guess the lowest common denominator always prevails.

Indeed! This is America, after all.
Your strawman arguments led the charge. But I guess that's the discussion you want to have.

Ha, I simply asked a question related to dragonfly's post on page 3. There were plenty of other partisan posts prior to mine. (What great alliteration!) I refuse to ignore falsehoods online and in real life.

You can't blame the polarization of this thread entirely on me, sadly. And of course, posts complaining about the polarization of this thread also contribute to it being "off topic." "Off topic" is in quotes because this is a discussion board, and discussions have a tendency to wander. It's the nature of the game.
 

MissStepcut

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thing2of2|1316803356|3024019 said:
MissStepcut|1316802915|3024011 said:
thing2of2|1316802794|3024008 said:
MissStepcut|1316802485|3024004 said:
It's pretty frustrating to watch a nuanced and educated discussion of our criminal justice system and government break down into a birther debate. I guess the lowest common denominator always prevails.

Indeed! This is America, after all.
Your strawman arguments led the charge. But I guess that's the discussion you want to have.

Ha, I simply asked a question related to dragonfly's post on page 3. There were plenty of other partisan posts prior to mine. (What great alliteration!) I refuse to ignore falsehoods online and in real life.

You can't blame the polarization of this thread entirely on me, sadly. And of course, posts complaining about the polarization of this thread also contribute to it being "off topic." "Off topic" is in quotes because this is a discussion board, and discussions have a tendency to wander. It's the nature of the game.
You listed your many grievances with some extreme views held by some conservatives in the U.S. Imagine that, it stirred the pot. The issues you brought up are easy for you to argue from your position, that's why I called them strawmans. They're also intellectually lazy. And boring.

There are lots of difficult issues that the Troy Davis case brings up. Why are our prison costs so high? Why is our recidivism rate so high? Who should be running our prisons? Is the change to public-private partnerships in prisons a bad one? Should we have nationalized prison sentences to combat accusations of bias and racism? Should the Governor of Georgia have had the authority to ultimately pardon Davis, especially since the Georgia State Board of Pardons and Parole is under the umbrella of the Executive Branch in Georgia, according to the Georgia State Constitution?
 

HollyS

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"You can't blame the polarization of this thread entirely on me"


Um, yes, we probably can.

Although, Deb did have a few anti-Republican moments herself. :wink2:



And why is the recidivism rate so high? Care to ponder?

I say "Birds of a feather flock together". We all know the company we keep will either be to our benefit or our detriment.

Change behavior, you'll get lower recidivism. But first you've got to address the cultural imperatives that make people behave so stupidly, all the while believing in their own inate coolness. Once you've figured out that mental illusion, you've won half the battle.

Gee, was that politically incorrect, and motivated by my nasty conservative leanings? Feel free to jump on me like a grackel with a June bug. You will anyway.
 

dragonfly411

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thing2of2|1316797775|3023931 said:
And my commitment is to correcting falsehoods. If that contributes to polarizing the discussion, so be it.


This was the most hypocritical thing you've said I think. No offense. You are trying to correct falsehoods by throwing out falsehoods about other people?

I believe that despite some of those sites being right winged, they did state FACTS.

But, it's pretty obvious that everyone that is not a democrat is wrong to you.

BTW I am not a Republican. I'm undecided at this time.
 

LAJennifer

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I like Obama as President. I am a Republican. People vary.
 

iheartscience

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MissStepcut|1316803773|3024025 said:
thing2of2|1316803356|3024019 said:
MissStepcut|1316802915|3024011 said:
thing2of2|1316802794|3024008 said:
MissStepcut|1316802485|3024004 said:
It's pretty frustrating to watch a nuanced and educated discussion of our criminal justice system and government break down into a birther debate. I guess the lowest common denominator always prevails.

Indeed! This is America, after all.
Your strawman arguments led the charge. But I guess that's the discussion you want to have.

Ha, I simply asked a question related to dragonfly's post on page 3. There were plenty of other partisan posts prior to mine. (What great alliteration!) I refuse to ignore falsehoods online and in real life.

You can't blame the polarization of this thread entirely on me, sadly. And of course, posts complaining about the polarization of this thread also contribute to it being "off topic." "Off topic" is in quotes because this is a discussion board, and discussions have a tendency to wander. It's the nature of the game.
You listed your many grievances with some extreme views held by some conservatives in the U.S. Imagine that, it stirred the pot. The issues you brought up are easy for you to argue from your position, that's why I called them strawmans. They're also intellectually lazy. And boring.

There are lots of difficult issues that the Troy Davis case brings up. Why are our prison costs so high? Why is our recidivism rate so high? Who should be running our prisons? Is the change to public-private partnerships in prisons a bad one? Should we have nationalized prison sentences to combat accusations of bias and racism? Should the Governor of Georgia have had the authority to ultimately pardon Davis, especially since the Georgia State Board of Pardons and Parole is under the umbrella of the Executive Branch in Georgia, according to the Georgia State Constitution?

Yes, I listed them after being asked. You may not have liked the off topic posts, but they weren't straw man arguments. And conservative PSers started the "liberals are impossible!" rallying cry on page 1. But hey-feel free to blame me if you like-I don't particularly care. The bottom line is you can't dictate what people post about on a message board.

As for several of the issues you raise, I have no idea-I'm not a prison or constitutional law expert.

I don't think prisons should be privatized, because then the business who own them have absolutely no motivation to rehabilitate prisoners. And having set prison sentences hasn't seemed to work well in other instances. 3 strikes you're out, etc. And I would imagine that nationalized prison sentences don't address the myriad of other ways defendants can be discriminated against. For example, a prosecutor could offer a better plea bargain to a white defendant, etc.

I did read a good chat on the Washington Post yesterday about capital punishment. http://live.washingtonpost.com/death-penalty-.html The bottom line seems to be that it doesn't save taxpayers any money (in fact, it costs more) and doesn't pose as a deterrent. So what's the point? Seems to me all it does is satisfy the bloodlust many Americans seem to have.
 

iheartscience

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dragonfly411|1316804484|3024033 said:
thing2of2|1316797775|3023931 said:
And my commitment is to correcting falsehoods. If that contributes to polarizing the discussion, so be it.

This was the most hypocritical thing you've said I think. No offense. You are trying to correct falsehoods by throwing out falsehoods about other people?

I believe that despite some of those sites being right winged, they did state FACTS.

But, it's pretty obvious that everyone that is not a democrat is wrong to you.

BTW I am not a Republican. I'm undecided at this time.

When DF posts that Obama spends too much money, pointing out that our deficit is mostly due to Bush's out of control spending, and providing links proving that is not a falsehood. Saying that Republicans are anti-science is my opinion, but it's an opinion supported by the crap potential Republican nominees are spouting on nationally televised debates and interviews. Again, not a falsehood.

And I am not interested in reading opinion pieces from anyone as evidence for anything. My father also loves to send me links to opinion pieces to prove his point, but all that proves is that he likes to read things he agrees with. ;)) I prefer nonpartisan news articles, such as the one I linked to from the NY Times, so I can draw my own conclusions. I don't really read any opinion writers, left or right. Furthermore, links stating that the earth had prior cooling and warming periods (which everyone knows) does not disprove the fact that the current acceleration of global warming/client change is man made.

If you're actually undecided, I would suggest using actual news sources to inform yourself instead of relying on right wing opinion pieces. News articles, journal articles, etc. Even better, check out BBC for an outside perspective on the US news.
 

Dancing Fire

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[quote="thing2of2|
Yes, I listed them after being asked. You may not have liked the off topic posts, but they weren't straw man arguments. And conservative PSers started the "liberals are impossible!" rallying cry on page 1. But hey-feel free to blame me if you like-I don't particularly care. The bottom line is you can't dictate what people post about on a message board.

[/quote]
true,but i still love you liberals...no hard feeling... :lol:
 

iheartscience

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Dancing Fire|1316805452|3024060 said:
[quote="thing2of2|
Yes, I listed them after being asked. You may not have liked the off topic posts, but they weren't straw man arguments. And conservative PSers started the "liberals are impossible!" rallying cry on page 1. But hey-feel free to blame me if you like-I don't particularly care. The bottom line is you can't dictate what people post about on a message board.
true,but i still love you liberals...no hard feeling... :lol:[/quote]

Ha I know you do, DF. And I never have hard feelings-I could fight with you all day! :cheeky:
 

MissStepcut

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thing2of2|1316804802|3024043 said:
As for several of the issues you raise, I have no idea-I'm not a prison or constitutional law expert.

No one has to be an expert in a subject to have an opinion. Pretty much any political discussion on the internet makes that clear.
thing2of2|1316804802|3024043 said:
I don't think prisons should be privatized, because then the business who own them have absolutely no motivation to rehabilitate prisoners.

Do the bureaucrats running prisons now have any motivation at all to reduce recidivism? I would guess reducing the prison population would be working themselves out of a job. I guess it could be possible to set up an incentive structure of bonuses for privately run prisons whose releasees never return, or don't return in some sensible window (determined by the data of when the greatest risk of recidivism is). The first flaw I can think of is that, corporations don't want to work themselves out of a job either, but then, a common criticism of corporations and CEOs is that they rarely think past next quarter, so... maybe we, as the public, would be exploiting their weakness and shortsightedness!
 

Dancing Fire

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[quote="thing2of2|
And I am not interested in reading opinion pieces from anyone as evidence for anything. My father also loves to send me links to opinion pieces to prove his point, but all that proves is that he likes to read things he agrees with. ;)) I prefer nonpartisan news articles, such as the one I linked to from the NY Times, so I can draw my own conclusions. I don't really read any opinion writers, left or right. Furthermore, links stating that the earth had prior cooling and warming periods (which everyone knows) does not disprove the fact that the current acceleration of global warming/client change is man made.

If you're actually undecided, I would suggest using actual news sources to inform yourself instead of relying on right wing opinion pieces. News articles, journal articles, etc. Even better, check out BBC for an outside perspective on the US news.[/quote]
NYT nonpartisan??... :lol: you should watch Fox news... :devil:
 

Dancing Fire

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thing2of2|1316805649|3024064 said:
Dancing Fire|1316805452|3024060 said:
[quote="thing2of2|
Yes, I listed them after being asked. You may not have liked the off topic posts, but they weren't straw man arguments. And conservative PSers started the "liberals are impossible!" rallying cry on page 1. But hey-feel free to blame me if you like-I don't particularly care. The bottom line is you can't dictate what people post about on a message board.
true,but i still love you liberals...no hard feeling... :lol:

Ha I know you do, DF. And I never have hard feelings-I could fight with you all day! :cheeky:[/quote]

like most PS liberals!!... :lol:
 

iheartscience

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MissStepcut|1316806103|3024073 said:
thing2of2|1316804802|3024043 said:
As for several of the issues you raise, I have no idea-I'm not a prison or constitutional law expert.

No one has to be an expert in a subject to have an opinion. Pretty much any political discussion on the internet makes that clear.
thing2of2|1316804802|3024043 said:
I don't think prisons should be privatized, because then the business who own them have absolutely no motivation to rehabilitate prisoners.

Do the bureaucrats running prisons now have any motivation at all to reduce recidivism? I would guess reducing the prison population would be working themselves out of a job. I guess it could be possible to set up an incentive structure of bonuses for privately run prisons whose releasees never return, or don't return in some sensible window (determined by the data of when the greatest risk of recidivism is). The first flaw I can think of is that, corporations don't want to work themselves out of a job either, but then, a common criticism of corporations and CEOs is that they rarely think past next quarter, so... maybe we, as the public, would be exploiting their weakness and shortsightedness!

Okay, let me be more clear: I (and most PSers, I would imagine) have such a low level of knowledge of the state of Georgia's constitutional law that it would be impossible to form an opinion. Same goes for prison costs. :rolleyes:

I think the government would be more motivated to reduce recidivism than corporations would be. If deficit hawks truly wanted to reduce spending, the prison system would be a great place to start. I also don't think a private corporation can be trusted to ensure the welfare of a prisoner in the same way that the government can be. Of COURSE prisoners are mistreated at the hands of the government, but there are so many awful, awful reports of the privately-owned juvenile detention centers/boarding schools out there. I just read an in depth article about one particular boarding school...I forget where the article was (maybe the New Yorker?), but the abuses were appalling.
 

dragonfly411

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thing2of2|1316805380|3024056 said:
dragonfly411|1316804484|3024033 said:
thing2of2|1316797775|3023931 said:
And my commitment is to correcting falsehoods. If that contributes to polarizing the discussion, so be it.

This was the most hypocritical thing you've said I think. No offense. You are trying to correct falsehoods by throwing out falsehoods about other people?

I believe that despite some of those sites being right winged, they did state FACTS.

But, it's pretty obvious that everyone that is not a democrat is wrong to you.

BTW I am not a Republican. I'm undecided at this time.

When DF posts that Obama spends too much money, pointing out that our deficit is mostly due to Bush's out of control spending, and providing links proving that is not a falsehood. Saying that Republicans are anti-science is my opinion, but it's an opinion supported by the crap potential Republican nominees are spouting on nationally televised debates and interviews. Again, not a falsehood.

And I am not interested in reading opinion pieces from anyone as evidence for anything. My father also loves to send me links to opinion pieces to prove his point, but all that proves is that he likes to read things he agrees with. ;)) I prefer nonpartisan news articles, such as the one I linked to from the NY Times, so I can draw my own conclusions. I don't really read any opinion writers, left or right. Furthermore, links stating that the earth had prior cooling and warming periods (which everyone knows) does not disprove the fact that the current acceleration of global warming/client change is man made.

If you're actually undecided, I would suggest using actual news sources to inform yourself instead of relying on right wing opinion pieces. News articles, journal articles, etc. Even better, check out BBC for an outside perspective on the US news.


Saying Republicans are anti reality is YOUR OPINION. That is not FACT. Thanks.

ETA - You claim to not work off of opinion pieces, but you want everyone on your side on what you stated above to be your opinion. Perhaps you should think on that some.

I read actual news sources as well as blogs, scientific websites, this forum, books etc. I posted those links because they best highlighted some of the budgeting examples that I could think of in a short searching period of time. Does that mean that they are wrong? no. Does it mean they are 100% right? no. It means they highlighted certain things that came to mind that I could find when I had the moment. I'll be happy to talk further with you on the subject if you want and hunt down better sources and examples (though some of the environmental stuff came from actual science based websites) when I have more extensive time to do so.
 

iheartscience

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dragonfly411|1316807737|3024099 said:
thing2of2|1316805380|3024056 said:
dragonfly411|1316804484|3024033 said:
thing2of2|1316797775|3023931 said:
And my commitment is to correcting falsehoods. If that contributes to polarizing the discussion, so be it.

This was the most hypocritical thing you've said I think. No offense. You are trying to correct falsehoods by throwing out falsehoods about other people?

I believe that despite some of those sites being right winged, they did state FACTS.

But, it's pretty obvious that everyone that is not a democrat is wrong to you.

BTW I am not a Republican. I'm undecided at this time.

When DF posts that Obama spends too much money, pointing out that our deficit is mostly due to Bush's out of control spending, and providing links proving that is not a falsehood. Saying that Republicans are anti-science is my opinion, but it's an opinion supported by the crap potential Republican nominees are spouting on nationally televised debates and interviews. Again, not a falsehood.

And I am not interested in reading opinion pieces from anyone as evidence for anything. My father also loves to send me links to opinion pieces to prove his point, but all that proves is that he likes to read things he agrees with. ;)) I prefer nonpartisan news articles, such as the one I linked to from the NY Times, so I can draw my own conclusions. I don't really read any opinion writers, left or right. Furthermore, links stating that the earth had prior cooling and warming periods (which everyone knows) does not disprove the fact that the current acceleration of global warming/client change is man made.

If you're actually undecided, I would suggest using actual news sources to inform yourself instead of relying on right wing opinion pieces. News articles, journal articles, etc. Even better, check out BBC for an outside perspective on the US news.


Saying Republicans are anti reality is YOUR OPINION. That is not FACT. Thanks.

ETA - You claim to not work off of opinion pieces, but you want everyone on your side on what you stated above to be your opinion. Perhaps you should think on that some.

I read actual news sources as well as blogs, scientific websites, this forum, books etc. I posted those links because they best highlighted some of the budgeting examples that I could think of in a short searching period of time. Does that mean that they are wrong? no. Does it mean they are 100% right? no. It means they highlighted certain things that came to mind that I could find when I had the moment. I'll be happy to talk further with you on the subject if you want and hunt down better sources and examples (though some of the environmental stuff came from actual science based websites) when I have more extensive time to do so.

Right, which is EXACTLY WHAT I SAID IN THE POST YOU ARE QUOTING. I already posted sources and examples, but if you're interested, feel free to hunt down more on your own.

ETA-no idea what you mean by your ETA.
 

Laila619

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
11,676
thing2of2|1316805380|3024056 said:
dragonfly411|1316804484|3024033 said:
thing2of2|1316797775|3023931 said:
And my commitment is to correcting falsehoods. If that contributes to polarizing the discussion, so be it.

This was the most hypocritical thing you've said I think. No offense. You are trying to correct falsehoods by throwing out falsehoods about other people?

I believe that despite some of those sites being right winged, they did state FACTS.

But, it's pretty obvious that everyone that is not a democrat is wrong to you.

BTW I am not a Republican. I'm undecided at this time.

When DF posts that Obama spends too much money, pointing out that our deficit is mostly due to Bush's out of control spending, and providing links proving that is not a falsehood. Saying that Republicans are anti-science is my opinion, but it's an opinion supported by the crap potential Republican nominees are spouting on nationally televised debates and interviews. Again, not a falsehood.

And I am not interested in reading opinion pieces from anyone as evidence for anything. My father also loves to send me links to opinion pieces to prove his point, but all that proves is that he likes to read things he agrees with. ;)) I prefer nonpartisan news articles, such as the one I linked to from the NY Times, so I can draw my own conclusions. I don't really read any opinion writers, left or right. Furthermore, links stating that the earth had prior cooling and warming periods (which everyone knows) does not disprove the fact that the current acceleration of global warming/client change is man made.

:lol: The NY Times isn't nonpartisan.
 

Ella

Brilliant_Rock
Staff member
Premium
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
1,629
Please keep it civil ladies and gentlemen or I will need to close the thread.

We would like to give more leeway regarding politics but rude posts, including eyerolling, namecalling, etc. are not helping your cause to be able to discuss politics again in a civil manner.
 

iheartscience

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Messages
12,111
Laila619|1316816438|3024208 said:
thing2of2|1316805380|3024056 said:
dragonfly411|1316804484|3024033 said:
thing2of2|1316797775|3023931 said:
And my commitment is to correcting falsehoods. If that contributes to polarizing the discussion, so be it.

This was the most hypocritical thing you've said I think. No offense. You are trying to correct falsehoods by throwing out falsehoods about other people?

I believe that despite some of those sites being right winged, they did state FACTS.

But, it's pretty obvious that everyone that is not a democrat is wrong to you.

BTW I am not a Republican. I'm undecided at this time.

When DF posts that Obama spends too much money, pointing out that our deficit is mostly due to Bush's out of control spending, and providing links proving that is not a falsehood. Saying that Republicans are anti-science is my opinion, but it's an opinion supported by the crap potential Republican nominees are spouting on nationally televised debates and interviews. Again, not a falsehood.

And I am not interested in reading opinion pieces from anyone as evidence for anything. My father also loves to send me links to opinion pieces to prove his point, but all that proves is that he likes to read things he agrees with. ;)) I prefer nonpartisan news articles, such as the one I linked to from the NY Times, so I can draw my own conclusions. I don't really read any opinion writers, left or right. Furthermore, links stating that the earth had prior cooling and warming periods (which everyone knows) does not disprove the fact that the current acceleration of global warming/client change is man made.

:lol: The NY Times isn't nonpartisan.

I won't waste my breath on the "liberal media" argument, but by nonpartisan article I mean one based on actual reporting, not an opinion piece written by a liberal or conservative author.
 

risingsun

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
5,549
I've just finished reading this thread. I've held my tongue and it hurts very badly. Some of the arguments are knee jerk reactions and immature in terms of critical thinking. I'm sorry to say that most of these come from the liberal side of the street. My husband is a republican and I am an independent. We both voted for Pres. Obama and are extremely disappointmented with his performance. My husband has none of the attributes, which have been given to republicans in this thread. Where does this information come from? Not by speaking with intelligent people, who can understand and reason their way through the rhetoric.

One more comment. I keep reading how capital punishment is not a deterrent to [heinous] crimes. We have talked about the issues concerning recidivism. It is very important to look at the rates of reoffending after release from incarceration. If someone has committed a [heinous]crime and has been convicted, without any doubt, you can prevent him/her from reoffending. If that isn't a deterrent, I don't know what is. That individual will never commit another crime. There are crimes against humanity, which cause us to lose our own humanity by looking the other way.
 

HollyS

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
6,105
risingsun|1316825380|3024292 said:
I've just finished reading this thread. I've held my tongue and it hurts very badly. Some of the arguments are knee jerk reactions and immature in terms of critical thinking. I'm sorry to say that most of these come from the liberal side of the street. My husband is a republican and I am an independent. We both voted for Pres. Obama and are extremely disappointmented with his performance. My husband has none of the attributes, which have been given to republicans in this thread. Where does this information come from? Not by speaking with intelligent people, who can understand and reason their way through the rhetoric.

One more comment. I keep reading how capital punishment is not a deterrent to [heinous] crimes. We have talked about the issues concerning recidivism. It is very important to look at the rates of reoffending after release from incarceration. If someone has committed a [heinous]crime and has been convicted, without any doubt, you can prevent him/her from reoffending. If that isn't a deterrent, I don't know what is. That individual will never commit another crime. There are crimes against humanity, which cause us to lose our own humanity by looking the other way.


Finally. A reasoned perspective. How refreshing. Thank you.
 
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