Tiffanys: here we go again....

[aljdewey]

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On 5/2/2003 7:34:23 AM jlim wrote:


Mara,
No one has to convince me that I can get a better deal elsewhere. I would shop anywhere but Tiffany's. I'm not trying to change the views of anyone of you. But it seems almost everyone is telling me that my 0.5ct is too small.

It is not just what she wants. It is also what I want. So, it will be a compromise bet. my needs and hers. Not just she wants a bigger st. and I want to spend as little as possible. No. I want good quality diamond and I want to make sure I make an informed decision because I cannot read her mind. I want this to be a surprise. Rather than getting her a 0.33 (small) or 0.75 (big IMO), I decided on around 0.5ct. I've talked to my other Asian friends and we share the same feeling. Maybe because we are of the same built and same cultural background, we feel that something has to look good and of good quality w/o being cheesy. When I walk down the street and see a woman with a big diamond ring (mind you, it could very well be 1.5ct only, a size most of you would say it is medium size), the first thing that come to my mind is "Is that diamond real?". "If it is real, how good of a quality it is?".

I've mentioned that my friend who was in one of the Tiffany store, the salesman told him that his observations are given a constrain budget, the American buyer will always opt for a larger stone sacrificing quality and the Japanese buyer will always opt for the smaller stone of superior quality. The Chinese buyer (I suspect HK buyers) will often buy 0.88ct coz' of the significance of the number 8. To me, to opt for a larger diamond and sacrificing quality is being superficial. Deep down you know it is not the best quality diamond you could have bought but you choose to ignore that and get something that is larger and more noticeable. I thought an e-ring is suppose to be bet. your bf and you and my gf and I.

Anyway, there's another reason also to shop at a store like Tiffany's. Every Tiffany's you go to in this world is the same. I haven't been to all of them nor spend a considerable amount of time in one but I believe it is a good assumption. 10, 20 or 30 years down the road, when we happen to be walking down the street and we see a Tiffany, it believe it will bring back all the memories we had and I can even tell her what I went through getting the e-ring for her 30 years ago. I know my gf. is very sentimental. Even if I get her a 0.5ct ring and 10 years from now we are *rich*, I know she'll never upgrade the ring and get a bigger diamond. We'll buy a bigger diamond, sure but I can confidently say that it'll never be on her ring finger.

With my contrained budget, I'm torn on my personal values (getting the best diamond) or be part of "history" so to speak. However, since coming to this forum, another twist has been thrown in. I get people telling me that I should get a larger diamond and sacrifice quality (albeit quality that can't be seen through the naked eye).----------------

Jim: Given all the posts on this, let's boil it down.

If you really think that the only place to get quality is at Tiffany's, then go there. If you really believe that you don't want to go over .5, then don't.

You came here seeking advice, and lots of helpful people have given you plenty of sage advice. What you do with that advice is completely up to you.

Everyone is telling you that .5 is too small, that's correct. That's their honest opinion. You don't have to agree with it, and the ultimate decision is up to you. Everyone is telling you that the QUALITY of the Tiffany diamond is NOT superior to what is available at other reputable sources, and in many cases the stone quality may be inferior because they don't provide any documentation about the most important factor in quality, CUT. You don't have to agree with that either, and again, the ultimate decision is up to you.

You've asked for opinions, and you've gotten them. If you disagree with them, fine, but then why keep asking? Are you looking for people to validate your viewpoints? If so, it isn't going to happen. You are dealing with people who are among the most savvy diamond amateurs (and professionals) around. The opinions offered are INFORMED ones, and they aren't going to change. I mean this in the nicest way, but you need to make your own decision on this. You just don't want to hear what people are saying...if you don't like the answer, you just ask again.

This is like "The Emperor's New Clothes". If you want to be the emperor and believe the "new clothes" (Tiffany diamond) are great, then do so. But believe me....the rest of the villagers are NOT going to agree.

In short, believe what you wish....but just don't expect that people here are going to validate those beliefs.

 

[jlim]

But don't let me dissuade you....you've both decided that Tiffany is the epitome of quality, and you're just not going to accept hearing anything that contradicts that. You're entitled to think what you wish.
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Aljdeway - let me say it one last time. I DO NOT believe that Tiffany is the epitome of quality. There's no way in hell they can sell an equiv. stone and yet make enough to maintain their staff, stores and marketing budget. If they could, I imagine the profit margin for the internet vendors must be huge then compared to Tiffany.

On the contrary, I am considering Tiffany for the name sake and everything else that comes along with it. Brand marketing works. Otherwise, people won't be buying Lexus over Toyota for example. But I don't want to debate another why a diamond is a piece of carbon and the diamond Tiffany gets it the same one as other piece of diamond someone else gets. It comes as a package. That's all I'm saying.

 

[aljdewey]

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Aljdeway - let me say it one last time. I DO NOT believe that Tiffany is the epitome of quality. There's no way in hell they can sell an equiv. stone and yet make enough to maintain their staff, stores and marketing budget. If they could, I imagine the profit margin for the internet vendors must be huge then compared to Tiffany.

On the contrary, I am considering Tiffany for the name sake and everything else that comes along with it. Brand marketing works. Otherwise, people won't be buying Lexus over Toyota for example. But I don't want to debate another why a diamond is a piece of carbon and the diamond Tiffany gets it the same one as other piece of diamond someone else gets. It comes as a package. That's all I'm saying.


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Jim: When you make a comment like this....."Would you rather have a diamond from Tiffany's or a diamond from Kmart/cheapdiamonds.com, discountdiamonds.com, etc"., that implies that you believe that anything other than TIFFANY is inferior quality. If that implication is incorrect, then my apologies.

If you want the "package", and YOU believe it's worth it, then DO it. But stop asking folks here to tell you that it's the best choice. We don't agree with the same values you place on the package, and that isn't going to change. This is a stalemate discussion, so I'm officially retiring on this one.

You are the only one who can decide what's right for YOU, and if it's the "package", then go for it. Good luck.

 

[giftgoddess]

actually, i completely understand that Tiffany is not necessarily the best quality...but i have simply fallen in love with their setting, and nothing..NOTHING has come close for me. it is the setting that draws me to Tiffany at this point. nothing else. and i don't know how to rectify that issue.

 

[tweddy]

i will stop by at tiffanys next week, and question the cut in detail, i am sure already its ex/ex/ex. And they should be able to let me know all the angles and percentages i want to know, considering the amount i am about to spend.
Does anybody really think that tiffanys sells anything else but superior quality for such a long time? Its not all about the marketing. Well we will find out.

TW

 

[dimsummy]

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On 5/2/2003 11

5:40 AM aljdewey wrote:

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Jim: When you make a comment like this....."Would you rather have a diamond from Tiffany's or a diamond from Kmart/cheapdiamonds.com, discountdiamonds.com, etc"., that implies that you believe that anything other than TIFFANY is inferior quality. If that implication is incorrect, then my apologies.

If you want the "package", and YOU believe it's worth it, then DO it. But stop asking folks here to tell you that it's the best choice. We don't agree with the same values you place on the package, and that isn't going to change. This is a stalemate discussion, so I'm officially retiring on this one.

You are the only one who can decide what's right for YOU, and if it's the "package", then go for it. Good luck.
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[/quote]

Yes...pleeeeease go buy the Tiffany if that's what you want.

Go for the D, IF. Nothing wrong with that if you want the perfect stone.

No one's knocking Tiffany. All your reasons are spot on. They're good cuts, have name recognition, and have unique settings.

And no one here ever knocks the next person's e-ring because they know where it REALLY ultimately came from - someone's heart.

As people here say, buying an e-ring is for happiness and should be fun.

Best of luck.

 

[trichrome]

fire&ice:

"gf" is because she has not the ring on her finger yet.
Besides that, YOU can't judge at all our relationship. So don't
throw arrows directly at me when I'm speaking about people
in general.

One last comment, buying an anniversary ring is like buying a new
item.... it's not at all like changing part of an old item only
because you considered it too small...

Yes... she will have all what she wants..and if it's diamonds..why not...
but God is hearing me today and knows that I will never put 50000$ in
a damn ring.... I was grown poor and I know the value of money..

heheheh.... I'm speaking like Bush today.

Trichrome.

 

[jlim]

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Jim: When you make a comment like this....."Would you rather have a diamond from Tiffany's or a diamond from Kmart/cheapdiamonds.com, discountdiamonds.com, etc"., that implies that you believe that anything other than TIFFANY is inferior quality. If that implication is incorrect, then my apologies.
----------------

aljdewey - if I walk down the street and ask 10 people what do they think of say supercert.com whiteflash.com goodoldgold.com, they'll have no clue what I'm talking about. I am using these 3 names because these are the most mentioned in this website. Another vendor here, dirtcheapdiamond.com. What do you think of the name? I was trying to avoid using a specific vendor name, thus I used names like cheapdiamonds.com, discountdiamonds.com. Basically anything dot com. Say putting Tiffany and another name, whatever the name is, if it is not wellknown, it might as well be K-Mart. At least people know K-Mart or Walmart. Keep in mind, out of the 10 riches people in this world, 4 of them are the Wallys.

Ok... enough of this.

Tweedy - you would offer some useful insight if you can get the specs from Tiffany and post what you find to us.

Or, if we can find 26000 people who are willing to contribute $1/each, we'll setup a fund to buy both diamonds but we'll discard the tiffany setting and do a complete evaluation of both loose diamonds at an independent appraiser.

And we'll see how *bad* the Tiffany diamond is. We'll know how much markup they have to sustain their store, staff, marketing and as a company.

 

[tweddy]

i like this idea,
may i have the setting then

 

[Hest88]

Okay, I actually think I'm really getting the picture here. Jlim hasn't read the tutorials yet and he's still a newbie. He, like most consumers, still thinks that clarity and color are the most important factors and he's not understanding that all of us are saying that *cut* is the most important factor. He's placing a high premium on a D and a IF as the mark of quality without getting that ideal cut is also not only a mark of quality, but contributes the most to the beauty of a diamond.

Also, he's also placing a huge premium on the Tiffany name, which is fine. I have brand names I prefer above all others, and you won't ever get a bad diamond at Tiffany. However, though I think he's on the right path, and he claims to value quality above all else, he's also not understanding that there's a *quality* trade-off with the Tiffany name unless you have a great deal of money.

BTW, I collect fountain pens. All of us know that Mont Blancs are not nearly as well-made as many lesser-known brands, yet the average consumer walking down the street knows only the Mont Blanc name and thus thinks that that means the name is the ultimate sign of quality. So be it. Those of us who have learned more know better.

 

[Mara]

I know that my gf will NEVER want
to upgrade her e-ring because of all the emotions related to it...
and she knows that our relationship is NOT at all related
to the size of her diamond!!! BOTTOM LINE.

How could you, if you were a woman, even THINK about UPGRADING
your ring????? This is another reason why divorce rate is 60% after 6 years...
People are putting their energy in stupid things !!!

------

boy am I tired of this ridiculous Tiffany discussion. So I'll focus on Trichome's post.

Tri--you little devil.

So yes I agree. Your relationship and everyone's relationship is not remotely related to the size of the diamond. In fact, I think of them as distinctly separate. In no way does my ring or my stone represent how much my FI loves me or how much he thinks of me or our relationship. Thank goodness. That is EXACTLY why I will be able to trade in my stone later for something else if we so desire. Because the diamond has really nothing to do with our relationship, or our love. It's just a material item that is not necessary to live, its not food, its not shelter, its just something fun to have and a LUXURY. Yes each piece of jewelry carries some great memories, but I don't know that I will keep them all forever.

I heard something very true recently, but don't recall where..maybe in a book...it was an older woman who mentioned that her memories were not rooted in the material items that others may feel represent stages in her life, but rather her memories lived in her head...where she can relive them all day long.

Personally if you ask me (as a woman who is thinking of upgrading her ring at some point in my life), the divorce rate is so high because people tend to give up on their marriage, it has nothing to do with the size of their stone or the fact that they upgrade. In fact I read an article recently, and posted on it, that said that people who feel strongly about either NOT upgrading (e.g. how can you even THINK that horrendously evil thought) or upgrading (e.g. there is no way in the world I would EVER settle for this little starter ring for the rest of my life) are the ones whose marriages were in danger (they ran some studies over 20 years). Do I really believe this? Not really, obviously you can't condense couples lives together into a 20 year diamond study. But the point of the article was that people who are firmly set in one camp from day one and will not budge from their thought of 'what is right' will have problems in marriage later due to their inability to compromise or budge from their idea of right and wrong. Many people tend to find marriage too hard, so at the first sign of difficulty or 'change' in the other person, decide they are done and move on before its too late and they waste too much time with the wrong person. Right or wrong? Who really knows. But that's why IMO there is so much divorce. Not to mention that people nowadays have so many choices. It's mind-boggling to choose a dinner entree at a restaurant from the 10 page menu..much less a husband you will want forever. Ever heard the phrase 'the grass is always greener on the other side'?

Marriage is hard work, you have to continuously work at it to keep it going. But I run into people all the time who swear that marriage should be EASY, it should be a cakewalk, you've found your soulmate, now you can just relax. You shouldn't fight too much, you shouldn't have differing opinions, you become one whole where there once was two halves. Sounds kind of scary to me!!! I personally like the hard work part...I don't mind putting some elbow grease into something that is worth it, plus where's all the fun and spice if you get along all the time? Some of the best older couples I know are ornery at heart.

So my bottom line is let's not be SOOO incredibly general here..and say that anyone who thinks about an upgrade is evil and must be destroyed..or that their marriage won't last. We all have our own opinions obviously, but I highly doubt that the size of a diamond or an upgrade wish in the future is going to doom a marriage. That thought in itself is very sad, as is the divorce rate year after year.

 

[*Monique]

I am an over 40 year old female.

Color me naive, but I don't get all the debate about Tiffany's. I saw the Audrey Hepburn movie where she loves going in to look at the jewelry. That's it. That's all I know.

I don't recall an ad on TV or in a magazine. I don't give a hoot about Tiffany's, but I am not into "designer" purchases. I am into quality only.

I have no desire to brag about getting a ring from Tiffany's or letting people know I have a ring from Tiffany's.

I don't equate Tiffany's with quality. To me, Tiffany's = expensive.

I have seen so many beautiful settings in jewelry stores and online.

I love my Scott Kay engagement ring but I don't consider it as a designer ring. It happened to be designed by Scott Kay, but if I saw this ring, and it was a no-name ring, I would have liked it the same. I tried it on and it looked good, period. I tried on at least a hundred settings before falling in love with and choosing this one.

Also, my fiance wanted me to help select the setting, since he wanted me to love it and be happy with this as I will be wearing it for such a long time.

 

[hidamari]

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On 5/1/2003 12:51:19 PM jlim wrote:

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1. Ring: 1.33 ct, I, VS2 or better i believe, big rock, round cut $13,000
2. Ring: 0.85 ct, F, VS2, sweet, $9995 or so,

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tweedy - err.. do they even have a 0.5-0.6ct stone in the store. Well, we only have 1 Tiffany in MI. So, it is not like I can drive to another store.

Will I look foolish to ask to see a 0.5ct? It's like going to a LV store and asking to see a $300 handbag.

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HI, I just wanted to back up a bit and answer this question...I hope it's still something that you are interested in...

About 2 month ago, I went to Tiffany's in CA and got following quotes for Classic 6-prong Setting:

1. 0.85ct, G, VS1, $7,990
2. 0.90ct, I, VS1, $7,780
3. 0.65ct, G, VS1, I think it was about $7,000

They didn't have these stones in the store, but the salesperson took us the their computer and did the search for the specifications that we wanted. They shipped over the rings, which took about 2-3 days, and they put the ring on hold for as much time as you need.

I've heard stories that salespersons at Tiffany is sort of intimidating, but my experience with Tiffany's service was really good!

 

[aljdewey]

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On 5/2/2003 12

1:57 PM jlim wrote:

aljdewey - if I walk down the street and ask 10 people what do they think of say supercert.com whiteflash.com goodoldgold.com, they'll have no clue what I'm talking about. I am using these 3 names because these are the most mentioned in this website. Another vendor here, dirtcheapdiamond.com. What do you think of the name? I was trying to avoid using a specific vendor name, thus I used names like cheapdiamonds.com, discountdiamonds.com. Basically anything dot com. Say putting Tiffany and another name, whatever the name is, if it is not wellknown, it might as well be K-Mart. At least people know K-Mart or Walmart. Keep in mind, out of the 10 riches people in this world, 4 of them are the Wallys.

Tweedy - you would offer some useful insight if you can get the specs from Tiffany and post what you find to us.

And we'll see how *bad* the Tiffany diamond is. We'll know how much markup they have to sustain their store, staff, marketing and as a company.

----------------

Jim: Are you serious? WHO GIVES A DAMN ABOUT THE 10 PEOPLE WALKING DOWN THE STREET? The 10 people walking down the bleeping street are NOT educated in diamonds....they are the same people who waltz into Zales, Kay's, or other MAUL jewelers and pay outrageous money for a K colored, I1 stone because THEY DON"T KNOW ANY BETTER.

Is that it.....you're trying to impress the 10 people walking down the street? Then give your GF a Tiffany ring, and make sure you take every single opportunity to tell everyone you see that IT'S A TIFFANY so you'll get the appropriate credit.

If you want to be like them, why don't you purchase a K, I1 stone? If you value their opinions over those of seasoned, educated amateurs and the professionals who are experts here, then why aren't you asking them instead of us?

Your argument is "10 people on the street don't know about (insert vendors here), so they must not be good? Fine; have it your way. Honest to God, I think you just want to have a debate for the sake of debating.

One last thing: No one...and I repeat NO ONE...said the quality of a Tiffany diamond is *bad*. We said that the quality of Tiffany diamonds was perhaps equal but not superior to ideal cuts of other vendors, but we'll never know because Tiffany's won't provide the information needed. You're arguing about something you can't even prove.

I'm truly retiring from this one.....I don't care if your next post is "the world is flat", I'm done. I'm happy to spend time jumping in to help someone learn enough to make an educated purchase, but this is just silliness.

 

[hidamari]

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On 5/1/2003 12:51:19 PM jlim wrote:

Will I look foolish to ask to see a 0.5ct? It's like going to a LV store and asking to see a $300 handbag.

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Also, Japanese people buy 0.3-0.4ct rings from Tiffany's, even 0.2ct (they tend to sacrifice carat for better of other 4Cs), so there shouldn't be any problem getting the 0.5-0.6 range diamond.

 

[jlim]

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On 5/2/2003 12:20

7 PM Hest88 wrote:

Okay, I actually think I'm really getting the picture here. Jlim hasn't read the tutorials yet and he's still a newbie. He, like most consumers, still thinks that clarity and color are the most important factors and he's not understanding that all of us are saying that *cut* is the most important factor.
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Yes, I'm new at diamond buying and I can only hope I have to do it only once in my lifetime. I've read the tutorials though I won't say I understand the science and everything around them but I do know cut is important. The reason why I listed I color, clarity and carat as my criteria is because I am ASSUMING whichever diamond I buy from the vendors here are going to be ABOVE IDEAL cut!!! And one that will get Excellent or Very good in each and every one of the 4 categories in the HCA calculator.

With that out of the way, I can concentrate easier on choosing the diamond. I decided for around 0.5-0.7ct D/E IF/VVSI BECAUSE again, I'm assuming the cut of the diamond is going to be ABOVE IDEAL.

I hope you won't ask me if it is going to be a branded H&A or not coz' I don't know how I feel either way. I asked that question but I don't think anyone has pointed me in any direction.

aljdewey - I am as sick as you debating about my criteria or what I want. You totally miss the gist of my K-Mart comparison. It is in the original Tiffany discussion and what's the point of us bickering like a couple of grumpy old man.

And I say this again. If I buy from the vendors here, I'm going for the absolute best 0.5ct diamond I can get in terms of cut, clarity and color for $4500.

If I buy from Tiffany, I'm going to buy the best $4500 can buy from Tiffany and all the 4c are variables.

These are my criteria. If you wish to help me and point me to various diamonds that fit my criteria (ONLINE criteria) or give me your comment about the diamonds I find, I welcome and thank you.

But please do not try to tell me I'm wasting my hard earned money for buying a Tiffany if I so choose to or anyone else who is considering Tiffany. We might throw our money away on a Tiffany brand but we might be better than you in other areas. I do not spent my money on an LV wallet. I do not wear Omegas or Rolexs but instead rely on my cellphone. I don't buy a fancy German car when I know I'll just be driving it to the junkyard driving to work 65miles each day, every single day. I can go on and on. We don't tell you how you should spend your money. Don't tell us how to spend ours. I especially hate remarks like "You are just wasting your money buying a Tiffany".

 

[jlim]

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On 5/2/2003 1:31

7 PM hidamari wrote:

Also, Japanese people buy 0.3-0.4ct rings from Tiffany's, even 0.2ct (they tend to sacrifice carat for better of other 4Cs), so there shouldn't be any problem getting the 0.5-0.6 range diamond.
----------------

This is interesting. This is exactly what my friend told me when he was at a Tiffany store in Las Vegas. The salesman told him the exact same thing. With a limited budget, the Japanese customer buy the best quality he/she can get even if it is a smaller diamond. The American buyers will opt for a bigger diamond of lesser *paper* quality and the Chinese (HK people I suspect) will buy a 0.88ct diamond

Do you think 0.3-0.4ct looks a)tiny b)small c)nice on a 5' 3" 105lbs women? Are you Japanese by any chance? Some of the Japanese waitress I see in the sushi bar I go to looks more like 5'1" 95-100lbs.

 

[aljdewey]

Tweddy & Giftgoddess:

My deepest apologies....this thread was hijacked, and I want to address your questions.

Tweddy wrote: ..."the sales lady (at Tiffany's) showed me a wonderfull ring, of course with the setting I DO WANT !!!!!, anyway one thing surprised me. The stone she showed me was supposed to be an I color. There was absolutely nothing, nothing, nothing yellowish. So I asked her to show me an icy white E color stone. I could not believe my eyes, even after about 5 mins looking at both, turning, twisting, etc. I could not tell the difference in color...whaaat.
Now, since Tiffany diamonds are cut for brilliance does this explain why. Both sparkled like crazy?

First of all, for both Tweddy & Giftgoddess: If it's the Tiff setting you want, and none of the copies can compare to Tiff's setting, then by all means, get the ring at Tiffs. I've seen many posts where people say that the Tiff knock-off settings just cannot compare aesthetically, and for those who feel that way, I can see why they buy there. Just be aware that you'll have to compromise A LOT on stone quality if you are working within a budget.

Tweddy: Tiffany diamonds are not specially cut different from other super ideals; Tiffany's doesn't cut their own. They purchase their diamonds from the same cutters that many of the vendors here do. Also, there is no way to verify the quality of the CUT of a Tiff diamond because they don't provide the crown/pav angles. If these are out of proportion, then the diamond leaks will light even though it's a D, IF.

The most probable reason why you couldn't see a difference in color is lighting. Jewelry counters utilize lighting that specifically helps the performance of diamonds. If you were able to walk out onto the street with the two diamonds in broad daylight, you'd likely see the difference side-by-side.

Tweddy and Giftgoddess: Contrary to another post here, I NEVER said everyone who buys a Tiffany diamond is wasting their money...that comment, if it came from anyone at all, did not come from me. If you are willing to compromise on the quality of the stone in trade for getting the name or the setting that you cannot get anywhere else, then it's not a waste to you to buy there.

Good luck to both of you!

 

[hidamari]

I think 0.4ct will look nice on her since she is so petite and probably has small fingers. However, in my opinion, 0.3ct is too small for any size woman. My Japanese friend in Tokyo told me to get at least 0.5ct because when you're young, an elegant 0.3ct ring may look good on your finger, but when you're older, it will look too small and you will be too "embarrassed" to wear it outside (and Japanese people usually don't upgrade their engagement rings). This is how Japanes people think and may not apply to you, but if you do not plan to upgrade your ring, I think it's better to get something over 0.4-5ct.

It also depends on her social circle, too...you don't want her to have the smallest stone among her friends. I also didn't want to have the biggest in the group, because then I would be too conscious. I guess it depends on her personality, too, but I think it is important to get her the ring that she feels most comfortable wearing.

Good luck!

 

[Hest88]

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On 5/2/2003 2:49:41 PM hidamari wrote:

I guess it depends on her personality, too, but I think it is important to get her the ring that she feels most comfortable wearing.
----------------

Exactly!

 

[giftgoddess]

thanks everyone.

i am still on a search for the setting i love. if i find it elsewhere (other than tiffanys) i will be thrilled to the core! if i don't...i may have to sacrifice some size, and go to tiffany's. i mean- i think we can all agree that the setting can make or break the ring- so i will continue to search.

 

[Googleman]

Jlim:
To be honest, I think anything under 0.5 would be too small, even if your gf is tiny. 0.5 is not very big. Also, shrinkage sets in for women once you start wearing the diamond, so I would opt for bigger now as it's only going to get smaller every time she puts it on. Besides, why not blow your girlfriend away with a larger diamond than she may be expecting??? Us women love that.

Also, why a D IF stone? You will be spending an awful lot of money for something you are not even going to be able to see or even notice. As it has been said so many times thus far, cut is the most important thing. For example, say you had a super ideal 1 carat G VS2 (or God forbid--even SI1) and another 1 carat D IF stone, not cut as well. I GUARANTEE, not knowing the stats and just looking at the stones alone, you would choose the G colored ideal stone. If you are also going to stay under a carat in size, with an ideal cut stone, you can drop a few notches in color and it will still be colorless and you will get much more stone for your money. Additionally, for the life of me, I can't understand anyone wanting to buy an IF stone. Okay, well maybe if I were Bill Gate's, buy WHY spend a lot more money on something you cannot see on the diamond instead of putting money into some of the other c's that will surely be noticed on a daily basis. I can more readily understand the desire to have a D colored stone, but an IF? If you are a carat or under an SI1 stone in this size should generally be eye clean (in GIA/AGS graded stones). You are never going to see the inclusions in the stone anyway, so why not compromise a little in clarity, something you will NEVER notice on a daily basis unless you plan to permanently attach a loup to the top of your stone.

If there is one thing I have learned in my long crusade to find a diamond, it is that it doesn't matter so much what the paper tells you. It matters what your eyes tell you. If the stone is stunning (back to my G VS2/SI1 ideal cut and D IF avg. cut stone example), does it matter so much what the clarity and color are? Trust your eyes!!!

True side story: In my office, a girl got engaged. It was a Tiffany diamond. Very high in color and clarity. She walked around and told everyone it was from Tiffany's (personally NOTHING could be more unbecoming). Another women in my office has a good sized ideal cut stone. Seeing as we are friendly and I was looking for a diamond, I asked her about her beautiful stone. It is I in color and VS2 in clarity but it is ideal cut. EVERYONE at the office constantly ooh's and aaah's over her diamond as it shoots off sparks in every direction. I don't think anyone gave the Tiffany's ring (of much higher color and clarity) a second thought.

What does your GF want? I will honestly tell you that I have a VERY hard time believing that a female could be turned off by a one carat stone (you get into quite large sizes and women will draw the line, but one carat, while def. good sized, is not huge). If they tell you otherwise, they are lying. They are trying to protect the ego of their significant others, who may not be able to afford a larger stone, or they feel guilty about spending so much money on a diamond. But they would be quite happy with it. You have a good budget. You should be able to get something nice sized and very nice in quality.

Sorry so long.

 

[*Monique]

I don't think Jlim will get larger that a 0.50 ct or 0.60 ct stone because it is cultural.

There is more to quality than cut, color, and clarity, there is size.

D stones are more expensive because they are more rare.

IF stones are more expensive because they are more rare.

Larger carat size stones are more expensive because they are more rare.

Ideal cut stones are more expensive because they are more rare (something like 3-5% of all diamonds are ideal cut).

Is the U.S. culture in general, larger stones are viewed as more expensive, therefore more valued.

It appears in the Asian culture, D,E color and IF clarity are viewed are more expensive, therefore more valued. Larger carat weights (> 0.50) are viewed as gaudy?

You can tell JLim until you are blue in the face that he can get a larger stone, but that is not what he wants or values. He wil continue to debate what we say we think is good because he does not value that.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 5/2/2003 12

1:40 PM trichrome wrote:

fire&ice:

"gf" is because she has not the ring on her finger yet.
Besides that, YOU can't judge at all our relationship. So don't
throw arrows directly at me when I'm speaking about people
in general.

One last comment, buying an anniversary ring is like buying a new
item.... it's not at all like changing part of an old item only
because you considered it too small...

Yes... she will have all what she wants..and if it's diamonds..why not...
but God is hearing me today and knows that I will never put 50000$ in
a damn ring.... I was grown poor and I know the value of money..

heheheh.... I'm speaking like Bush today.

Trichrome.
----------------

But, Tric - generalized or not *you* were making assumptions & judging others. I was judging your choice of words - it's not right either way. *That* was my point. Geez, give the poor girl the ring already.

My then BF waited so long I thought he had changed his mind. Men, can't live with them & ya can't shoot them.

I never traded in a diamond. I still have them all. But, yes, I reset my orginal stone in a very cool moderne setting & I do not wear it on my left hand. My 2nd ring (10th ann.)is a family ring which I enjoyed wearing as my "engagement" ring on my left hand. This is hubby's grandmother's & was my intended engagement ring (long story). I have set that ring aside to pass on to someone in the family. My 20th big rock is what I wear on my left hand now w/ my wedding band.

All that said, basically I did change my e-ring over the years. Only a technicality that I kept the "old" ones. As I stated before, hubby always called my orginal diamond as my "starter" stone. He's cool with it. In fact, unbeknownst to me, he contacted a living artisan jeweler whose work I collected to sketch some designs for my orgin. stone when he gave me the "family" ring. A funny related story ensued. I decided on one of the sketches. The diamond was sent on it's merry way to make the new setting. About a week went by, I broke out into tears. I couldn't do it. Like a women, I can be mellow dramatic. I called the jeweler frantically. The jeweler called my husband. Hubby calmed me down w/ a conference call to the jeweler. The jeweler suggested that I could use my original head oriented the same way (North, S, E & W) in another setting that he does in various forms (I have the bracelet that matches the setting). It's fabulous & I feel it's still orginal. I will have to photograph it. BUT, I do not wear it as my e-ring.

Never say never Tric. But, I concur. I would not feel comfortable wearing a 50k ring on my hand. But, viva la differance!

We haven't started a full fledged thread on upgrades/etc. in a long time. Perhaps we should. I bet people would fall on all sides of the coin. I had one friend who told me she would never not wear her orginal e-ring on any hand but her left. Yet, she completely reset it in a completely different setting. What's the dif?

 

[pyramid]

About 2 month ago, I went to Tiffany's in CA and got following quotes for QUOTE FROM HIDAMARI:

"Classic 6-prong Setting:

1. 0.85ct, G, VS1, $7,990
2. 0.90ct, I, VS1, $7,780
3. 0.65ct, G, VS1, I think it was about $7,000

They didn't have these stones in the store, but the salesperson took us the their computer and did the search for the specifications that we wanted. They shipped over the rings, which took about 2-3 days, and they put the ring on hold for as much time as you need.

I've heard stories that salespersons at Tiffany is sort of intimidating, but my experience with Tiffany's service was really good!"

______________________________________________________


Are you sure those prices were what was quoted. I asked in a post about prices and Richard Sherwood gave prices by percentage increase for color. The percentage increase was very high. Maybe Richard Sherwood can comment.

 

[jlim]

googleman - thanks for taking your time to reply. What you said has a lot of merits for someone who wants a big stone. In your example, the cut was the defining factor. So, even if the clarity and color are great but if it's cut so so, then the diamond will not sparkle as much. So, in your example, it is better to get the lower clarity and color but superior cut.

For me, I've decided that I think around 0.5ct is a good size (based on my limited survey of my Asian circle friends and my own upbringing where bigger usually means to show off).

Since in my case I've decided on the ct. of the diamond and I've decided to get the *best* cut from the vendors here if I choose to buy here and I've been told many times that the diamonds sold here are ideal or above ideal cut. So, that shouldn't be a concern to me.

So, with cut and ct. out of the equation, with the set amount of money to spend, my only 2 variables are color and clarity. If I go lower in these 2, I'm just saving money which is good. But since I've decided to spend $4500 total (including setting), I'm gonna spend what I've budgeted.

Whether 0.5ct is small or not is up to your interpretation and what you are used to. I can tell you I grew up in Asia and most people just buy diamonds that are not certified because we simply cannot afford to get high quality diamonds, let alone a 0.5 high quality diamonds.

She's an engineer and her colleagues are mainly guys. I don't think this will change anytime soon. I can see if she works in a trendy metropolitan area like NYC or San Fran. even Chicago, and you go clubbing a lot, fancy restaurants etc. a 0.5ct. will seem small. But both of us grew up in Asia but obtained our studies here. We live in the Detroit. Almost everyone works in the auto industry. It is definitely not about Gucci/Louis Vuitton/Prada/Cartier/Rolex.

I've mentioned many times why I chose the D/E IF/VVSI criteria even if I cannot see it. The same reason I like mechanical watches and even better if the manuf. of the watch actually makes the movement rather than buying the generic movement almost every watch maker buys from the same source. Rolex is too old for me and Omega is about the only other watch maker that makes their own movement. Also, I like Omega watch designs. You probably wonder why I would care what's inside the watch coz' it is just to show time, right? That's not how I see it. I cannot see the inside, but I know it took some fine mechanical watch maker over hundred years or more to perfect a mechanical device that is able to keep time accurately. No mechanical watch will ever rival a tiny little sand in 90% of the watches these days in terms of keeping time. But I appreciate all the engineering marvel that goes into the watch.

Maybe the same thing goes with diamonds. There aren't many D/FL diamond in this world. In larger sizes of course. But I don't even want to attempt to look for a 1ct D/FL. I wish I can find or afford the best cut D/FL diamond around 0.6ct. I can then tell my gf. this is the absolute best diamond in the world and I got it for you. Instead, I've to settle for a E color IF clarity which is 2 grades lower than D FL. You can just imagine. A flawless diamond. Absolutely flawless and the whitest. Going with the conventional notion, 'if you can't see it, what difference does it make' does not work for me. This is what I want and I hope she'll see why when I give it to her.

 

[jlim]

----------------
On 5/2/2003 4:53:18 PM *Monique wrote:

You can tell JLim until you are blue in the face that he can get a larger stone, but that is not what he wants or values. He wil continue to debate what we say we think is good because he does not value that.
----------------

Monique - you got it 100% right. If I can get a 0.75ct (the max I'll go at this moment) D/IF for my budget I'll buy it. Unfortunately, the best I can get is 0.58ct E/IF. Assume both are ideal or above ideal cut.

You certainly don't see me telling all the people who tell me to go larger and lower quality (coz' you can't see it) to buy a smaller stone but higher quality, do you?

 

[guslik]

----------------
On 5/1/2003 8:14:34 PM Mara wrote:

Sorry as a girl I had always thought purses WERE handbags. Silly me.

LV carries small shoulder bags for around $180+. If when you say handbags you mean big clunky things...yeah those are more pricey...must be more vinyl?
----------------

LOL MARA, that was fanny

, I remember jlim previous post and long LV topic in it.
GOOD ONE!

 

[Googleman]

Jlim:

You wrote:

googleman - thanks for taking your time to reply. What you said has a lot of merits for someone who wants a big stone. In your example, the cut was the defining factor. So, even if the clarity and color are great but if it's cut so so, then the diamond will not sparkle as much. So, in your example, it is better to get the lower clarity and color but superior cut.

YES, I would def. go for a lower color and clarity with an ideal cut (don't get me wrong--there are limits here, I am not endorsing an M colored stone with a clarity of I1 of anything like that

) over a very high/best color and clarity with an average cut. It would honestly look better. I do believe that.

But you are right, if you are set on getting a small stone and have a decent budget, as you do, you can get a very high color/clarity ideal cut diamond. Forgive me for not understanding the desire to have a smaller diamond. You would probably consider me your average materialistic, blue-blooded American that likes to think bigger is better. (And you would probably be right.) But I understand where you are coming from. Whatever you do, just make sure you get sufficient information on the cut to make an informed decision. Also, trust your EYES. View the stones, forget about what is on the paper and pick the one that LOOKS the best, even if it is the E VVS1 over the D FL!!!

 

[pyramid]

Jlim


You do know that if that diamond gets a little chip in its girdle that it could be downgraded from an IF to a VS quality or even lower. Diamonds are the hardest mineral but they can be chipped.

Regarding buying from Tiffany's 'to each his own'. I notice that many of the film stars who have loads o money do not buy from Tiffany or Cartier - therefore is Harry Winston higher class. I am from the United Kingdom and we have Tiffany and Cartier but if people buy from there they do not tell it much. I know people with high quality diamonds but do not know where they were bought from.