Tiffany Setting vs Super Ideal Help!

[Aap922]

All,

I am sure this has been discussed before slightly. But, here it goes. I’ve been researching a lot lately and you all taught me a lot so far, but I need some help for an engagement ring...

Let’s start with what I originally wanted to purchase:
The Tiffany Setting (really love the Tiffany setting so classic and timeless, the diamond seems no different than a nice Astor cut from Blue Nile with crazy markup)
1.51 Carats, I, VS1 price: $24,300
7.32-7.35x4.57mm
Precision of cut: excellent
Symmetry: excellent
Polish: excellent
Fluorescence: none
Total depth %: 62.3%
Table size %: 56%
Crown Height %: 15.5%
Crown Angle: 34.9 deg
Star length %: 50%
Pavilion depth %: 43.2%
Pavilion Angle: 40.9 deg
Lower half length %: 80%
Girdle thickness: med to slightly thick
Girdle Finish: faceted
Culet: None

After looking at this ring multiple times I like it, but then I found price scope and learned about super ideals HPD-CBI, WF ACA’s, and Black Brian Gavin. And realized these diamonds seem to “sparkle” more than a Tiffany diamond and I could go with one of those mentioned vendors ONLY. Cut is most important.

For example: Buy option A or B
A) Go bigger carat weight, better color, same clarity, and save some money
Example 1.72ct, F, VS1 $22,500
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10500

B) Same weight, perfect color, near perfect clarity (is this a heirloom type diamond?)
Example: 1.49ct, D, VVS1 $24,000 or is this a waste of money?
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4137888.htm

Put option A or B in a clone type setting:
It appears that the closest identical match I’ve found to the Tiffany setting is:
-HPD’s New York Classic solitaire Cost unknown?
-Vatche U-113 6prong $1,600
-Go custom (Victor Canera) cost unknown?
-other you educate me

Given the dilemma what would you do? I want the setting as close to identical as possible to the Tiffany setting. As far as the diamond goes I want eye clean, I would love a white diamond , but if you think I couldn’t tell the difference between an E or F in the setting and I should go for more size. Or go for the perfect diamond since the 1.5 size made her really happy already, but she says nothing can be too big haha.

Need help!

 

[nala]

So what I’m understanding is that you want to know how to best maximize your 24k budget for a Tiffany replica with a super ideal cut?

 

[Miss Marple]

Is she expecting a Tiffany ring? If so, don’t get anything else without talking to her first.

If Tiffany was you going for “the best”, and she has no such expectation, then I would go for the 1.72F. Even people who are color sensitive on this board, seem to find F colored stones acceptable. From a distance almost nobody will be able to tell the difference between D and F colored stones.

Only go with the D VVS if you need it for cultural or mind clean reasons. Since you were initially looking at an I color with Tiffany, I’m guessing no cultural issue.

Note that with Whiteflash and HPD, trade ups are easy if she wants a different diamond— or a future upgrade.

 

[Aap922]

Essentially...

-would you go all perfect 1.5ct route?,
-go bigger in size and safe zone in color (e/f)
-go the max in size and push the threshold on color not past G or H?
However, no more than 2ct

Also what setting?

 

[Aap922]

She is okay with not receiving a Tiffany if we can get a very similar setting she loved the Tiffany in person (I, 1.5, VS1). Me personally I’m kind of a OCD person and wasn’t too happy with an “I” as I could tell the difference between I and F. That was just the best I could afford from Tiffany’s. I don’t understand the “cultural” reasons question?

 

[MissGotRocks]

She is okay with not receiving a Tiffany if we can get a very similar setting she loved the Tiffany in person (I, 1.5, VS1). Me personally I’m kind of a OCD person and wasn’t too happy with an “I” as I could tell the difference between I and F. That was just the best I could afford from Tiffany’s. I don’t understand the “cultural” reasons question?

Some cultures value high color/clarity and rather insist on that for their betrothed. If that is not the case for you and your girl, you are free to choose any combination you love.

Some folks really want a Tiffany ring - no ifs, ands or buts. If she wants a beautiful diamond in a similar six prong setting, she will get so much more in terms of value without going the Tiffany route.

 

[headlight]

While I would've loved to have an engagement ring from Tiffany... I would much prefer to have a colorless diamond than an I color stone from Tiffany.
People here can give you every Tiff look-alike setting as options as well as find you a knockout diamond.

 

[Pimberly]

It sounds like she really cares much more about size than color since she was happy with the I. I think getting an I color in a larger size would make her happier. She’s the one who’s going to be wearing it after all.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Example 1.72ct, F, VS1 $22,500
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10500

Put option A or B in a clone type setting:
It appears that the closest identical match I’ve found to the Tiffany setting is:
-HPD’s New York Classic solitaire Cost unknown?
-Vatche U-113 6prong $1,600

Need help!

Here's what I would do...

buy the 1.72ct F VS1 from HPD and set it in one of the two classic setting. HPD can order the 113 Vatche setting or you can go with their New York Classic which is a very high quality setting, but IDK the price difference b/t the two settings.

 

[soxfan]

Here's what I would do...

buy the 1.72ct F VS1 from HPD and set it in one of the two classic setting. HPD can order the 113 Vatche setting or you can go with their New York Classic which is a very high quality setting, but IDK the price difference b/t the two settings.

I was also going to suggest their New York Classic setting if you bought a stone from them. I LOVE that solitaire setting- closest look to the tiffany one.

 

[sledge]

As you have realized, you are paying a pretty stiff price premium for the Tiffany name. A super ideal stone will give you a superior cut and normally larger size, color and/or clarity for the same money. Or if you want to stick with the same size, color & clarity (1.5ct, I VS2) then you can pocket a few dollars.

I might add another thing I dislike about Tiffany is they do their own grading. I have no reason to doubt them; however, we know that color & clarity is a RANGE inspected by humans. IMO, it's a major conflict of interest to do your own grading and I'd prefer an independent 3rd party certification. Granted, you could buy a Tiffany and have it re-certified with AGS or GIA but that is additional expense, time and effort.

While we can point you to many different alternatives and options, the most important question hasn't been answered -- what are HER preferences? Does she "need" a Tiffany branded ring? What is her sensitivity to color, clarity and size? Is I color good enough for her, or YOUR hang up to get her a better color? If given the ability to get a bigger stone, would she do so at the expense of color and/or clarity? Or possibly sacrifice the Tiffany brand for a larger stone?

For instance....

2.383 I VS2 @ $24,830
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4022274.htm

2.06 I VS1 @ $21,098
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2962086.htm

1.947 I VS2 @ $17,790
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4104633.htm


As far as setting costs, much depends on metal types and size. Also, if the ring is hand forged, cast, etc. Alas, if you buy your setting separate from where you purchase the diamond then you need to make sure the person doing the setting will set an outside stone. If so, be prepared to pay a small fee to do so. You can get quotes from people you are interested in working with but I'd expect somewhere between $2.5k to $4k depending on specifics.

 

[lydial]

If size is something she wants to maximize, and she was happy with the T&Co I color, I would seriously consider the WF I VS1 above, or ask Wink for a video comparing the F you posted to this CBI I:

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10704

 

[hypermom]

I saw the 5.12 I color CBI in person and it was very white.
Depending on where you are located, HPD could send the F and I to an appraiser or store in your area so you can view them. They did that for me.
If you are interested, don't hesitate to contact them, they are very helpful.

 

[Miss Marple]

You should also look at G and H colored diamonds...

 

[chamois]

If size is something she wants to maximize, and she was happy with the T&Co I color, I would seriously consider the WF I VS1 above, or ask Wink for a video comparing the F you posted to this CBI I:

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10704

CBI I above in HPD’s New York Classic setting

 

[Aap922]

So she seems to really like the HPD NY setting vs the Vatche as we both agreed that it appears to be the most similar to Tiffany’s. Diamond is really up to me as she likes the size of 1.5 and will let me do my thing on the rest (1.4-2ct, color at-least I, clarity eye clean, sparkles and pops like a Tiffany or better) I really like WF’s D 1.49 checks all the boxes, but it just seems so much easier to go with one vendor so they can do it as a package and makes upgrading so much easier... I’m wondering if I can tell any significant difference in a D vs F/G when it’s in the setting. Thanks for all the feedback!

So far it looks like the 1.72 makes the most sense, but still evaluating. But, also seems like HPD is the most expensive up there with BG with the least amount of stone inventory.

When you see a D color super ideal does it stand out that much more in a super ideal? Bc what it seems like is this: a super ideal is cut so nice the color seems to appear more colorless than they really are. Especially when face up... or am I just fixated on the D color too much?

 

[OoohShiny]

Do drop Wink a line at HPD as he might be able to check if they have new inventory coming in that is not yet listed, one of which might suit exactly what you are looking for

 

[OoohShiny]

Let’s start with what I originally wanted to purchase:
The Tiffany Setting (really love the Tiffany setting so classic and timeless, the diamond seems no different than a nice Astor cut from Blue Nile with crazy markup)
1.51 Carats, I, VS1 price: $24,300
7.32-7.35x4.57mm

Or...

2.11 I VS1 (8.26 - 8.28 x 5.1 mm) from CBI for $23254 wire price?
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10451


The CBI has a 27% larger surface area, and diamonds look noticeably different in size at 0.2mm (generally speaking), nevermind almost a whole mm in diameter!

 

[Miss Marple]

Unless she cares about the D color, and it sounds like she does not, I would go the the F. The difference in color variation between D and F is smaller than the difference in tint between G and I.

 

[sledge]

If you aren't aware, color is graded by looking at the SIDE of the diamond. The more exposed the sides of the diamond, the greater the potential to see tint. As such, when looking face up on a diamond you may not see much tint variation. Lastly, if a diamond is poorly cut, light will not bounce around properly and allows tint to become more visible. Consequently a well cut H may look more white than a poorly cut G.

The above being said, the color sensitivity of the viewer can also have a large impact on the perception of a stone being tinted or not. Females tend to be more color sensitive than males. However, there is no hard & fast rule. Some on here claim they can see the most minor differences. Others claim it takes them several color grades to see a difference. IMO, the only way to know is to go in a store and look at stones that are graded by the same lab, as close to the same size as possible (general theory is the larger the stone, the more tint is visible, which makes sense as you have a larger body) and all stones have a similar cut quality. Preferably do NOT have the jeweler tell you which is which. Just keep eliminating stones until they all look acceptable and then ask what colors are still on the table. Many times people go in thinking D color is a must have and is then surprised to learn that anything H or better is acceptable.

Many believe that a G/H color offers a good bang for the buck as most people still consider that to be very white without the higher cost premiums associated with a D/E/F stone. I understand the need and desire to have "the best" but with color, the "best" is a very subjective term and greatly depends on the viewer, setting, lighting, surroundings, etc. Cut is also crucial as already noted, but HPD, BGD, WF, VC, etc are all ideal cuts so you don't have to worry about that aspect as much.

I bought my wife an H VS2 stone from BGD. I learned after the fact she is extremely color sensitive, yet also color tolerant (meaning she isn't bothered by it). So when it comes time to upgrade her, we will likely look at F+ stones with a preference for D/E. The sacrifice will be that we may dip down to SI1 clarity, not go quite as large and/or boost the budget. It's not wrong to have a preference or desire, just understand with diamonds that those things cost a premium and ensure the quality you are insistent about is worth the premium to you and yours.

A few links that may help better educate you to make the decision that is right for you.

https://beyond4cs.com/reviews/high-performance-diamonds/ (including as it has some good up close photos and comments concerning the HPD NYC setting you are considering)

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/education/education-color

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/the-4-cs-color.htm

 

[OoohShiny]

Those are great pics from @Texas Leaguer, @sledge, thanks for copying them into the thread!

 

[sledge]

Those are great pics from @Texas Leaguer, @sledge, thanks for copying them into the thread!

Haha, no worries buddy.

I agree, they are great pictures. While pictures aren't a replacement to viewing diamonds in the flesh & blood, I believe they really do capture the point pretty well.

 

[Bron357]

My 5 cents and I’m not a diamond guru.
You pay quite a bit extra for the Tiffany name and to many that name, the experience and the pretty packaging are what it is all about.
Others are happier to get a bigger or higher graded diamond in a similar setting.
Tiffany diamonds aren’t “extra special high quality” per see, their grading tends to be generous. A “cut above” H & A will outperform anything else in terms of fire and scintillation.
Cut is King. Diamonds are all about the fire and scintillation. That’s why you are choosing a diamond, you want a little sparkle bomb glinting away like there’s no tomorrow.
Color is subjective. Most people have never seen a D colour diamond and to them an H or even an I looks plenty white. You notice colour more by comparison. Put a D right alongside an H and it “ah, yes”.
Clarity is an assessment done at x10. People viewing your diamond are not going to see clarity issues unless they are black carbon specks or affect the fire and scintillation so even an SI diamond can be eye clean.
Size.
Everyone and anyone recognizes size and trust me, diamonds start shrinking the second they go on the finger.
So for my money, I’d go with a similar setting, a top cut, a colour down to H and clarity down to SI IF eye clean and the biggest size I can get for my $$$$.

 

[lovedogs]

My 5 cents and I’m not a diamond guru.
You pay quite a bit extra for the Tiffany name and to many that name, the experience and the pretty packaging are what it is all about.
Others are happier to get a bigger or higher graded diamond in a similar setting.
Tiffany diamonds aren’t “extra special high quality” per see, their grading tends to be generous. A “cut above” H & A will outperform anything else in terms of fire and scintillation.
Cut is King. Diamonds are all about the fire and scintillation. That’s why you are choosing a diamond, you want a little sparkle bomb glinting away like there’s no tomorrow.
Color is subjective. Most people have never seen a D colour diamond and to them an H or even an I looks plenty white. You notice colour more by comparison. Put a D right alongside an H and it “ah, yes”.
Clarity is an assessment done at x10. People viewing your diamond are not going to see clarity issues unless they are black carbon specks or affect the fire and scintillation so even an SI diamond can be eye clean.
Size.
Everyone and anyone recognizes size and trust me, diamonds start shrinking the second they go on the finger.
So for my money, I’d go with a similar setting, a top cut, a colour down to H and clarity down to SI IF eye clean and the biggest size I can get for my $$$$.

Yes!!!!

 

[distracts]

I’m wondering if I can tell any significant difference in a D vs F/G when it’s in the setting. Thanks for all the feedback!

When you see a D color super ideal does it stand out that much more in a super ideal? Bc what it seems like is this: a super ideal is cut so nice the color seems to appear more colorless than they really are. Especially when face up... or am I just fixated on the D color too much?

Quite frankly, if you can tell the color difference between a D and an F when set or when in Tiffany jewelry store lighting and not against a white background with flat bright lighting, you have more color-sensitive vision than 99.99% of humans, including than of diamond graders. I am VERY color sensitive when it comes to colored stones but I can't tell the difference between D-G diamonds unless they're all lined up and in the right kind of lighting environment. And in regular everyday lighting? I and up all reads as "really white." I personally would go bigger because size is way, way more noticeable than color. Heck, I can see the color at J/K but I prefer those colors in regular viewing environments.

 

[ponyrider]

Heck, I can see the color at J/K but I prefer those colors in regular viewing environments.

The J/K is also my favorite color range. Something about them really makes my heart flutter. Its a very personal preferance. Personally, I would go with a larger stone and a lower color assuming cut grades are comparable. Have you guys looked at a number of stones together? I think that is really important.

 

[distracts]

The J/K is also my favorite color range. Something about them really makes my heart flutter. Its a very personal preferance. Personally, I would go with a larger stone and a lower color assuming cut grades are comparable. Have you guys looked at a number of stones together? I think that is really important.

And looked at them outside of sparkly jewelry store lighting, even if the best you can do is stick your hand under the table or under your other hand. Make sure also you are comparing stones of like cut quality - bad cuts make diamonds appear darker because you aren't getting good light return. A D diamond with bad cut will look darker than an L with a good cut based on light return, not body color.

 

[Aap922]

Here's what I would do...

buy the 1.72ct F VS1 from HPD and set it in one of the two classic setting. HPD can order the 113 Vatche setting or you can go with their New York Classic which is a very high quality setting, but IDK the price difference b/t the two settings.

Dancing Fire and all what do you think about this one?
Need your thoughts on this diamond from HPD I have on hold currently 2.04 I VS2:
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10794

What are your opinions on the inclusions and clarity report? Will it be eye clean?

No IS or ASET available yet... What are your thoughts on the cut?
Here are some of the #'s
Table 56
Depth 60.90
Crown 34.20
Pavilion Angle 40.70
Pavilion Depth 42.90

I originally was looking at higher colors/clarity, but she was okay with an I when we tried it on at Tiffany's so I decided to go with higher ct weight... Clarity still needs to be eye clean. And the 2ct did look stunning on her finger.

Thanks!

 

[yssie]

Here’s the thing.
There is nothing exactly like the “real deal”.
There is nothing exactly like the real Tiffany setting - in mind and in metal.

If you go with a stone from an alternate vendor, you’re compromising on the real tiffany mount.
For most people who want a specific piece from a specific vendor it’s not a zero sum game - getting an extra special super duper stone, or a bigger stone, doesn’t “cancel out” or “make up for” a compromise setting.

So what’s really the most important thing here?
How much will the fact that a lookalike mount is neither identical in aesthetic nor authentic in spirit bother you, or her? It clearly is something that would be bothersome - otherwise you wouldn’t be looking for the closest possible match.
Be honest when you (and she!) answer. No wrong answers - unless the answer is not an honest answer.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Dancing Fire and all what do you think about this one?
Need your thoughts on this diamond from HPD I have on hold currently 2.04 I VS2:
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10794

What are your opinions on the inclusions and clarity report? Will it be eye clean?

No IS or ASET available yet... What are your thoughts on the cut?
Here are some of the #'s
Table 56
Depth 60.90
Crown 34.20
Pavilion Angle 40.70
Pavilion Depth 42.90

Thanks!

VS2??.. My best guess the stone have a 99.9% chance of being eye clean. Ask Wink to "eye it" for you just to be sure.

As for the cut? ...all CBIs are super ideal cuts, so nothing to worry about . It'll easily pass the IS and ASET scope test.