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Thoughts on this Padparadscha

jysharma

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Messages
15
Hi,
I am interested in getting a Padparadscha for my wife as a baby gift :angel:

My goals are: To get her the largest Pad for around 10k (max 12k). I would prefer Sri Lanka/Burma origin. I have gone back and forth between treated/untreated and finally decided to accept a heat treated stone to get a better price per carat i.e. larger stone.

Having done some research and looked at stones at a few online jewellers, the color variation and price per carat is huge.
Also, I prefer a higher saturation/tone stone as I think it will look fabulous to my wife's complexion.

With these in mind, I found the following

3.08 Carat Padparadscha Sapphire
$12,000.00

GEM GRADE REPORT

Weight: 3.08 carats
Shape: Rect. cushion
*Color:

Hue: 4.0
Saturation: 5.0
Tone: 3.5

*TOTAL COLOR RATING:
4.0
SCALE OF 1-5
*Cut:

Brilliance: 5.0
Proportions: 4.5
*Clarity:
5.0
*Crystal:
5.0
*TOTAL QUALITY RATING:
9.0
SCALE OF 1-10

DESCRIPTION
________________________________________
Padparadscha is defined as a "delicate" orange-pink color that echoes the hue of the Oriental Lotus. By that definition, this stone is, perhaps, too robust, the color too highly saturated to fit the definition. So...call it orangy-pink! A very rare, unusual and beautiful color.

Exceptionally brilliant. Origin: Mogok Valley, Burma. Dimensions 8.8 x 6.8mm.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have asked the jeweler for a GIA/AGS report to confirm the details of the gemstone independently.
I am looking for your opinion on both the quality of the stone as well as the pricing.

Thank you for your considered opinion.

521.jpg
521_0.jpg
521_1.jpg
fullsizerender_143.jpg
 

pinkjewel

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
2,189
Well, it is too saturated to be called a Pad, so the price in my opinion is high. The description even says it's not a Pad. I think you can do better
 

jysharma

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Messages
15
Hi pinkjewel,
Thank you for your opinion. I had similar thoughts but wanted to get a second opinion.
 

treasurehunter

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
611
Its heated so it is very intense the saturation, if it were that saturated in unheated it which is very rare as generally they are lighter in saturation it would be 10,000 plus per carat i think around that size.
Its deep cut, I would ask libs test on all heat treated padparadcha colors and GIA will call it Padparadcha or not , they might not call it padparacha judged on the photos.
 

qubitasaurus

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
1,118
The seller is charging a premium for that stone on the grounds that it is a pad. I would not buy it unless it was certified as a pad by either GIA or AGL (to be honest the photographs make it look like it has a brown secondary. So I am not sure it'll qualify as a pad).

I think people pay a premium for Pads because they like the delicate peachy pink color

https://www.pricescope.com/forum/co...at-pad-maybe-i-made-a-mistake-t213543-30.html

If you aren't hunting for this color exactly (the one you posted above looked muddy reddish orange to me) then you can save a lot of money and time by not looking explicitly for a pad.

Otherwise there has been a lot of threads on pads recently, containing plenty of options. Pearlmans

http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/ge...lor=padparadscha&minct=&maxct=&min=&max=&sku=

jewels by grace

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/rings/3-62ct-padparadscha-sapphire-halo-ring#.VzFL3Xr-SVA

and gemfix

http://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-pink-468-padparadscha-sapphire-cushion-portuguese-cut-4-01cts

all have pads for sale at the moment.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
10,448
Agreed it isn't a "true" pad--but that isn't necessarily problematic. What I do find problematic is the price per carat given that it isn't a pad--I think it is overpriced and that the vendor may be using the "pad" name to justify the pricing. So overall I think you could do better--if you like that color we can help you find something beautiful :)

ETA: If that is the color you most prefer then I'd suggest looking for pink/red sapphires, since what jumps out most to be about the one you linked is that it's more "neon pink/red" than a pad would be (vs. peach-pink).

Sorry, ETA #2: What about these options: http://www.litnon.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=10841 or http://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-pink-460-oval-portuguese-style-2-43cts??

The first is a certified pad, the second just had nice coloration I thought you would like given the one you linked.
 

treasurehunter

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
611
Could be just the photo, the problem with many heated padparadcha on the market is that they are beryllium diffused always ask for libs
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,365
I believe it is only a matter of time before strongly saturated orange pink sapphires will be officially recognized as a padparadscha. I recall seeing an eye popping vivid padparadscha in a video of the Basel show last year that also had an astronomical asking price.
http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/padparadscha-sapphire.htm

Until that day officially comes and it is redefined, this stands:
http://www.lmhc-gemology.org/pdfs/IS4_18012010.pdf

Padparadscha sapphire is a variety of corundum from any geographical origin whose colour is a subtle mixture of pinkish orange to orangey pink with pastel tones and low to medium saturations when viewed in standard daylight.
The name 'padparadscha sapphire' shall not be applied in the following cases:
– If the stone has any colour modifier other than pink or orange.
– If the stone has major uneven colour distribution when viewed with the unaided eye and the table up +/- 30°.
– The presence of yellow or orange epigenetic material in fissure(s) affecting the overall colour of the stone.
– If the stone has been treated as described in Information Sheets #2 and #3.
– If the stone has been treated by irradiation.
– If the stone has been dyed, coated, painted, varnished or sputtered.
 

soberguy

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 25, 2009
Messages
646
Too saturated?!?! What?!?! Says WHO?

1,000,000.00 pad ring sold by christie's. Looks pretty saturated to me.

_3515.jpeg
 
S

SparkliesLuver

Guest
Personally, with a budget like yours and for such a special gift, I'd want to know what M&W (http://mayerandwatt.com/gemstones/stones-photo-gallery/sapphire/) has as they have a ton of inventory not listed online. However, they only deal with trade members. I'd contact Elle with The Gemstone Project ([email protected]) and ask for her help as she has a great relationship with them.

ETA: She recently helped someone else find this one from M&W! :love:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BCwzUg-Hqq_/?taken-by=thegemstoneproject
 

jysharma

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Messages
15
Hi All,
Thank you for your responses. This forum is a great resource and all of you make it a very pleasant place to come and seek help and guidance.

treasurehunter, I have asked for a GIA report to see if they rate it a pad. I was originally attracted to the intense saturation but only after your response, I realized that the intense saturation was due to the heat treatment. Thank you

qubitasaurus, the larger pads at pearlman are pretty low saturation for my liking, the ring at jewels by grace is on hold (though maybe i should email and ask) and the gemstone by genflix you linked in my opinion looks a little brownish. I looked at these earlier but none jumped out at me.

Chrono, I learnt a ton from the attached article as well as the precise definition. Thank you

sparkliestLuver, that gem you linked to is divine!!!! I will email Elle and see if she can find me one like that. What a beauty!! :clap: :clap: :clap: can you let me know the price per carat as well as the size of that stone.

We have decided to wait for the right pad as we are in no hurry to settle. So if someone spots a beautiful Pad, please let me know.

Thank You
Yogesh
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
10,448
Hi there,
Here's another one that didn't quite make the "pad" grade due to being overly red (as per AGL), but it's untreated and I think very similar in color to the one you liked. It's likely smaller than you want (1.22 ct), but from Wildfish Gems who often has gorgeous un-treated pieces. They are typically very pricey due to no treatments, but maybe worth emailing him with what you're looking for.

soc123-bhs.jpg
soc123-b3.jpg
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,365
S

SparkliesLuver

Guest
Yogesh, it is, isn't it (and I don't typically like pads)?! Yes, please email her. I'm actually going to let her answer those questions as I'd rather not disclose that information on the forum. Keep us posted!
 

GregS

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 5, 2012
Messages
717
I suggest relaxing your size requirement, you can get a beautiful 1.5 ct. Pad within your budget.

I really like the idea of a Mahange Spinel. They often display an orange secondary. Most "Padparadscha" I see are unsaturated pinks with a gray modifier and little to no orange secondary.
 

jysharma

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Messages
15
qubit, that is a beautiful gemstone. My question is, how do you find the right price for a gemstone like that? Also, in the future how will the prices of Mahange spinel hold up. While I love the color, I do not want to spend a lot on a beautiful gemstone which becomes worth only a small amount in the market in a few years.
 

qubitasaurus

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
1,118
I am not entirely sure what you are asking. If you are asking do spinels hold their value like sapphires then this should help

http://www.preciousgemstones.com/gfspring16.html#4

I would also read a few of Yvonne's posts like this one

[url=http://cecileraleydesigns.blo...g/2015/11/what-is-your-jewelry-worth.html?m=1[/url]

Then I would throw my hands up in the air and decide buying gems as investments is an awful idea. There is no way to know for sure whether these trends will continue. It depends on a number of unknown factors-- such as whether a new supply of the stone is found. Even if the prices do continue to rise, it is often difficult to recoop what you spent on a stone as a private seller. The vendor has a reputation and offers a returns policy. As a private seller you may need to price things a lot lower for people to be willing to take a risk. (If it is an engagment ring stone like an expensive pad, then you will also have to contend with the fact that many people are first time buyers, and may not even know about the second hand options and often wont consider them for their engagement stone).

If you are asking does Yvonne sell nice stones and are they fairly priced then I have bought from her in the past and been really happy with what I recieved. If you are not in a hurry then I would look through all the recommended vendors to get a feeling for how rare mahenge spinels are and what is a good price.
 

qubitasaurus

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
1,118
I think the colour is lovely, but personally I would pass because of the checkerboard faceted crown. This is a matter of personal taste for me (plus I would be concerned that it was cut that way because it is just too included to be sparkly with a normal cut, and I would be devistated if my expensive engagement stone wasnt sparkly; but that is just me.).

If this is something that doesn't bother you, then I definitely agree with making the seller get a GIA cert. I would want to see the colour of the stone pictured in the cert before purchasing. I would also want to know if it was heat only. Then i would want to understand the shipping and returns (it looked like you might loose 1000 dollars in my currency just on nonrefundable etsy fees + return shipping? I dont know whether you would also get hit with customs charges?)

I seccond sparkliesluver's recomendation of looking up Elle (I honestly think she will be worth her weight in gold here.)

Funnily enough I was also looking at pads for you. Palagems had one I liked the look of (sorry phone is playing up so i'll need to come back for the link). But you would need to partner with a trade member to get more information. Finewatergems also has one but it is a bit pricey.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,365
I have nothing against checkerboard cuts but it threw up a red flag for me, so I took a closer look at the pictures and it confirmed my suspicions. It was cut this way to minimize the appearance of the numerous inclusions. This stone is probably not eye clean, and is confirmed by the appraisal that it is moderately included. The colour, however, looks very pretty.
 

jysharma

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Messages
15
Hi All,
Thank you once again for helping me out. I didn't even realize the checkerboard cut nor the inclusions. Wow, am I a newbie at this! :roll: :roll: :roll:
I was just attracted to the color but I knew that it would be good to ask for help here!
I have asked for more details from the vendor on that gemstone. Will keep you posted.
I have already contacted Elle and she is on the search for a Pad for me.
Yogesh
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,365
Elle is a veteran on CS and made the move into Trade a while ago; you'll be in good hands.
 

qubitasaurus

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
1,118
Can I make one more unsolicited suggestion before I stop stirring up mischief :angel: ?

For 1-2 weeks I would limit my search to the recommended vendors list pinned at the top of the forum. The reason being: at the moment you are constructing a data set. Later when Elle finds something you will compare it against this data set, in order to evaluate whether it is a good buy (even if you are not aware you are doing this).

I could be wrong but if you start out with a list which sounds something like this: -- greater than 3 ct with nice face up size-- colour similar to the Eidle precious stone you posted above -- high quality (i.e. best chance of retaining value) -- certified pad sapphire by AGL or GIA-- relatively untreated -- less than 12 k. Then my guess is something on that list will need to be sacrificed (in fact I agree with GregS). If you build a data set where many entries are low quality (perhaps without appreciating that this is the case) but quite large, then I imagine you will have a hard time accurately evaluating and comparing this data set to the option Elle digs up.

Anyway good luck :wavey:
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,251
jysharma|1462827732|4029451 said:
Hi,
I am interested in getting a Padparadscha for my wife as a baby gift :angel:

My goals are: To get her the largest Pad for around 10k (max 12k). I would prefer Sri Lanka/Burma origin. I have gone back and forth between treated/untreated and finally decided to accept a heat treated stone to get a better price per carat i.e. larger stone.

Having done some research and looked at stones at a few online jewellers, the color variation and price per carat is huge.
Also, I prefer a higher saturation/tone stone as I think it will look fabulous to my wife's complexion.

With these in mind, I found the following

3.08 Carat Padparadscha Sapphire
$12,000.00

GEM GRADE REPORT

Weight: 3.08 carats
Shape: Rect. cushion
*Color:

Hue: 4.0
Saturation: 5.0
Tone: 3.5

*TOTAL COLOR RATING:
4.0
SCALE OF 1-5
*Cut:

Brilliance: 5.0
Proportions: 4.5
*Clarity:
5.0
*Crystal:
5.0
*TOTAL QUALITY RATING:
9.0
SCALE OF 1-10

DESCRIPTION
________________________________________
Padparadscha is defined as a "delicate" orange-pink color that echoes the hue of the Oriental Lotus. By that definition, this stone is, perhaps, too robust, the color too highly saturated to fit the definition. So...call it orangy-pink! A very rare, unusual and beautiful color.

Exceptionally brilliant. Origin: Mogok Valley, Burma. Dimensions 8.8 x 6.8mm.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have asked the jeweler for a GIA/AGS report to confirm the details of the gemstone independently.
I am looking for your opinion on both the quality of the stone as well as the pricing.

Thank you for your considered opinion.

521.jpg
521_0.jpg
521_1.jpg
fullsizerender_143.jpg
I hate threads like this, and I wasn't going to comment, but the absolute worst gem a person can buy as a beginner to gems is a padparadscha. The classification is too speculative, and it can mean thousands of dollars in difference if a stone is considered a padparadscha vs a orange or pink sapphire. I would only trust AGL to make that determination as well, not GIA and most certainly not AIGS, who is sometimes or sometimes not a bit too vague about how they test for diffusion.

Also, while you want a higher saturation/tone to match your wife's complexion, true padparadscha color, according to the gemology board that defined what a padparadscha is, indicates that they should not be highly saturated, and the finer ones are a lighter tone.

How about a nice pink sapphire? Do you know specifically if she likes padparadschas as well, because that's an awful lot of money to spend on something that she might not like. If you still have your heart set on a padparadscha, I recommend this ELEVEN page thread. There's a lot to learn, as this person was looking to spend $15K on a stone.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-find-a-padparadscha-for-an-engagement-ring.202831/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-find-a-padparadscha-for-an-engagement-ring.202831/[/URL]
 

jysharma

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Messages
15
Thanks TL for your thoughts. I will think about this a little more.
I have contacted Elle. So we will wait and see how it works out.
 
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