Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity
  • PriceScope will be conducting a server maintenance April 13th about @ 1 am CST.

    It will includes bug fixes, and security updates.
    If all goes well, the forum should only be down for about 3 hour.
    We apologize for any inconvenience.

The story of my ring's grading issue

WillyDiamond

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
1,229
TL said he wanted to see the stone himself and check to see what the color was. At least that is how I read his post.

Here is an excerpt from his post:

I agree. Just judging from the picture nobody would suspect this diamond of being anywhere in the near colorless range! It certainly looks nothing like the images of the stone on the website. I am looking forward to inspecting it later today
 

SandyinAnaheim

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
815
You may want to check out my post on this thread. CBI will challenge AGS if a stone comes back at a higher color than they think it should be. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diamond-search-take-2.244742/page-2#post-4444191
I agree with @Wewechew. What some of you may not know is that the Chief Gemologist at CBI is Lieve Peeters. She is acclaimed for her expertise, is a judicial expert with the Belgian Ministry of Justice, and is brought in by Interpol in cases related to diamonds. She is the one that does the grading of CBI stones before they get sent off for grading. I recently purchased a stone she graded a J before sending it off for grading, and it came back an I. So it would seem that neither she, nor AGS, appear to be soft on color.

In the past I purchased a 1.5 ct I VS1 GIA XXX that was dead in all lighting. Why? It had poor cut, yet it was still a GIA XXX. Yes, GIA is the BIG DOG, but I don't trust them as far as I can throw them. Based on my experiences buying various stones, I will trust an AGS report, but not a GIA report. The digital metrics AGS uses are far more accurate in my opinion.

As to this particular stone, I agree that it does not appear to match the AGS report. I wonder if there was a clerical error somewhere at the AGS lab. Mistaked CAN and DO happen from time to time. I think it would be prudent for WF to challenge the color grade with AGS and have it reassessed.

From CBI website:
Lieve Peeters is the Chief Gemologist for Infinity Diamonds and a highly-sought expert in the Antwerp diamond sector. With over 30 years of industry experience Ms. Peeters holds a continuing position as judicial expert with the Belgian Ministry of Justice. Formerly the Diamond-Expert Coordinator for the Belgian Ministry of Finance and Economic Affairs, Ms. Peeters also worked as a sorter for DeBeers sightholder Stieglitz & Grossman and a buyer-grader for Prestige Diamonds. Holding degrees in polishing and gemology, Ms. Peeters is in regular demand as a subject-matter authority in the areas of rough and polished diamonds.
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,959
TL said he wanted to see the stone himself and check to see what the color was. At least that is how I read his post.

Here is an excerpt from his post:

I agree. Just judging from the picture nobody would suspect this diamond of being anywhere in the near colorless range! It certainly looks nothing like the images of the stone on the website. I am looking forward to inspecting it later today
Right, but that doesn't mean he's allowed to specifically comment on a stone that he's selling, if it were to be returned (as that's specifically against the rules, I think).

So yes he's going to inspect it, but my point is that he might not be able to come back and give us his opinion/thoughts.
 

WillyDiamond

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
1,229
what? If TL cannot comment on the stone then who can? He is the face of WF on this forum. I would be surprised if he did not comment. You mean he would inspect and not comment? When we speak to the sales people at the PS vendors they comment to us all the time.
 

WillyDiamond

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Messages
1,229
I could understand if TL did not comment, but he has already given comments and thoughts on this thread. Had he not posted, then I understand, but he did post multiple times.....
 

Julyisjuly

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
125
Hi everyone, Thanks for following up. We were busy on the road and forgot to bring iPhone charger, so limited the phone use to save battery for navigation.

⭐The pictures I took yesterday were definitely impacted by surrounding color, the lights in my place have some yellow tint. See below:
IMG_3215.JPG

⭐The apprisal guy is Steven Jarvis, as several of you mentioned here. His assessment picture showed a yellow tint.

⭐I campared some other stones at WF today, since only 3 stones can be showed together each time. I kinda lost track on which one I was taking picture with.
In this set of 4 pic: the bigger ones on left are H, I, the smaller ones are the G 1.941 and the most far right one is another G1.904.
The differences are very subtle in all 4.
The sales person and I can see the other G 1.904 is slightly slightly whiter than the G1.941.
IMG_3182.JPG IMG_3174.JPG IMG_3175.JPG
IMG_3183.JPG
 

Julyisjuly

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
125
I am so sorry, I didn't really keep track of pictures. Now I looked back in my phone, I can't even tell which is which. All I can remember, The bigger size ones are H and I, the smaller ones are the 1.941G and another G they have in house.
I also saw a GIA G, but can't recall which is it in the picture.....
I think at the end, the color look all very similar to me, I can tell a very subtle difference when I look in person while my fiancé can't tell any difference between these G to I.

IMG_3198.JPG IMG_3211.JPG IMG_3212.JPG IMG_3197.JPG IMG_3193.JPG IMG_3196.JPG
 

Attachments

TreeScientist

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Messages
1,248
I'm pretty sure you got the Gs on the right mixed up. The one on the far right is the 1.941 G. I can easily see the difference between that one and the one right next to it (which I assume is the 1.90 G), even though the side profile pics are pretty terrible.

Would also be interested to hear what you decided to do.
 

TreeScientist

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Messages
1,248
I would like to add that, disliking color is not just about associating it with imperfection. Some people actually don’t like tint. Like me - I think it makes the diamond look like ... pee. Sorry, but you made me say it. I feel almost bullied when it comes to color. Everyone saying oh no you can’t see it face up, it gives character, it’s still white .... no ... I can see tint face up in a .45 GIA G stud, and while I think it is still beaturiful, I prefer the iciest white that my eyes can see. If you love tint in a diamond - go for it! To each their own.
I agree. It's easy to feel bullied on this site if you don't like diamonds that are G or lower. But trust me, you're not alone on here. There are several of us like you who prefer the icy white look.

I hold a similar opinion to your own. I don't like color in colorless (D-V color) diamonds. I do like fancy color diamonds and diamonds that look like fancies (@Rockdiamond has some beautiful Y-Zs that look like vivid yellows in his settings :) ). But to me, a colorless diamond should be icy. I can easily see the difference, even face up, between a properly-graded GIA G and a D. And while I don't think the G looks bad, and I can certainly appreciate why others like them, the D just looks better to my eyes.

Mind you, this is cultural conditioning to associate colorlessness with value aside. Even if I didn't know the D was more expensive, my eye would still go to it. Trust me, I wish D-Es were cheaper. Would save us a lot of money! haha
 

Jimmianne

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
5,913
Treescientist, my fellow scientist, it is not so interesting how we are all different?
Between the cultural and the biological and the who-knows-whatical we all have our special preferences. For some reason my heart beats a little faster when I see color flashes in a diamond with tint. I guess I am one of the lucky ones, funds-wise. : )
But I would not turn down an icey white D, in case anyone is giving them away this holiday season.:lol-2:

Kmoro, funny. Now I will never look at a « P » graded diamond quite the same way. Lol
 

CareBear

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Messages
1,311
I'm pretty sure you got the Gs on the right mixed up. The one on the far right is the 1.941 G. I can easily see the difference between that one and the one right next to it (which I assume is the 1.90 G), even though the side profile pics are pretty terrible.

Would also be interested to hear what you decided to do.
I think you're right! To me the second from the right looks the most colorless.
 

ctsamg

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 25, 2018
Messages
69
My theory based on some research is that any super ideal will face up whiter than others. Why? Super-ideals are cut to have a lot of fire (small pinpoints of light). This causes your pupils to contract. When your pupils are contracted, color discrimination is very poor. So, a range of colors become one color.

A good example is going out to a garden on a sunny day. You pick a handful of flowers that are all the same color. When you go inside and your eyes adjust, you realize that the colors you thought were all purple...vary in shades from purple to pink. Some variation in intensity too. Some are less intense than others. A cool feature of the human eye.

Now, if we were birds, we'd be able to see more UV and that would let us see flour under less intense light. That would be fun.
Sadly, eyes simply do not work like this
 

kmoro

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
1,076
If I had a lot of $$$ I would be sporting an F color stone, but since don't I'm stuck with an H color.
lol ... I can see this is going too far, hahaha :twirl:

DF ... you and everyone else, including me, knows darn well that an H ... or I or J or K ... or G or F or E ... etc etc etc ... are all beautiful!!!! :naughty::wink2: poor you stuck with an H ... lol

This is just PS land, where we get to split hairs and discuss personal preferences ... and no one personal preference is better than another!

What I want to say now is: one person’s trash is another person’s treasure .... but it’s hard to keep a straight face saying that in a diamond forum.

I am forever entertained and grateful that we are all in such a luxurious position to debate diamonds!
 

CareBear

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Messages
1,311
@Julyisjuly Since it doesn't sound like you or your fiance are that color sensitive and the 1.94 is now 'tainted' in your mind, may I suggested you go lower and bigger? H isn't much color difference from the 1.94, which I presume is a borderline H.
 

TreeScientist

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Messages
1,248
@Julyisjuly Since it doesn't sound like you or your fiance are that color sensitive and the 1.94 is now 'tainted' in your mind, may I suggested you go lower and bigger? H isn't much color difference from the 1.94, which I presume is a borderline H.
This is true, but did she look at higher colors as well? Telling the difference between an H and an I is much more difficult than telling the difference between, say, a D and a G...

I think the real question is, did she not like the color in the 1.94 "G" (or H/I) from a visual perception standpoint (because it looked dark or dingy in her home lighting), or did she not like it because she felt that she did not get what she paid for? If it's the former, being that she didn't like the color, then maybe sticking to a "true" G or even an F may be warranted. But if it's the latter, being that she felt cheated by the grading but didn't really mind the color, then yes, going for a larger "true" H or I that is correctly graded would make sense.
 

CareBear

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Messages
1,311
The next time when I'm in a jewelry I'm gonna compare my AGS H to some GIA H and I color stones. It is much easier for me since my ring is on a tension setting. My wife's stone is a GIA H (graded in 2003), but I haven't compare our two rings yet.

Here is my AGS H
2.35i.jpg

AGS VSB I color Octavia.
IMG_2392.JPG
From the photos the I with VSB looks whiter than the H. Does it appear that way IRL? Curious to know how your AGS H compares to your wife's! From the side, my AGS H round, in a six prong platinum solitaire, looks more tinted than my GIA H cushion, in a halo, where the stone is more exposed. Also, the cushion has some fluo. Not sure if the prongs or lack of fluo in my AGS round is making it look more tinted.
 

CareBear

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Messages
1,311
The stone on the right looks like it is brown.
Agreed. It appears to be the most tinted of the 4. I agree with @CareBear that the 2nd from the right is definitely the brightest/least tinted of the 4. It is noticeably brighter face up, even at first glance, compared to the other 3.
I was thinking the same! Could it be a G on a brown scale and not yellow, making it look so much darker than other Gs and even Hs?
 

partgypsy

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
6,332
Did u end up picking a different stone? It might have been good to have in line up even higher color stones (def) to see if you would prefer a more colorless (mind clean) stone even if smaller or more expensive.
 

TreeScientist

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Messages
1,248
You may want to check out my post on this thread. CBI will challenge AGS if a stone comes back at a higher color than they think it should be. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diamond-search-take-2.244742/page-2#post-4444191
As to this particular stone, I agree that it does not appear to match the AGS report. I wonder if there was a clerical error somewhere at the AGS lab. Mistaked CAN and DO happen from time to time. I think it would be prudent for WF to challenge the color grade with AGS and have it reassessed.
I've read this in a few other threads as well. Re: That CBI internally grades all diamonds for color prior to sending them off to the lab, and if it comes back from AGS with a higher grade than their internally-assigned grade, that they'll send it back to be re-graded down. In fact, out of the threads/reports of AGS being "soft" on color, I've never seen any mention of a CBI diamond being appraised lower than expected.

I would hope that WF would do the same, but I've never heard anything about them sending stones back to be re-graded down.

I was thinking the same! Could it be a G on a brown scale and not yellow, making it look so much darker than other Gs and even Hs?
Perhaps. From the appraisal photographs on the first page it does appear to have a brownish yellow tint. Not straight brown or champagne-y brown, but more like a dark/murky yellow or brown-yellow.
 
Be a part of the community It's free, join today!

Need Something Special?

Get a quote from multiple trusted and vetted jewelers.

Holloway Cut Advisor



Diamond Eye Candy

Click to view full-size image.
Top