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Diamond Search - Take 2

CJMT2018

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
82
Wow! Amazing price points. 1.96 shows faint florescence on PS, but on B2C's site shows strong blue. At such D color, it doesn't truly matter, does it? In my mind, I wanted none-faint, as I'm not keen on any type of blue emitting from the diamond under certain lighting.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,389
Wow! Amazing price points. 1.96 shows faint florescence on PS, but on B2C's site shows strong blue. At such D color, it doesn't truly matter, does it? In my mind, I wanted none-faint, as I'm not keen on any type of blue emitting from the diamond under certain lighting.
Hmmm, that is weird. I see what you are talking about but I'm not sure why. I'm guessing there was a technical error of sorts in the data transfer from the vendor site to the PS site search. I'm not sure if the PS search engine sniffed incorrectly or if the B2C site had a typo in their database that gets sniffed. Obviously the B2C details page got it right, which is what matters.

FYI, not much of a savings but USA Certed has the same diamond for a few hundred less. I noticed the PS search engine reported properly on them.

Capture.PNG

As long as fluor doesn't create a hazy/milky appearance, it is really personal preference. FYI, according to GIA there is about 1% of stones negatively affected by fluor, so most aren't but it's always a good question to ask.

Many people do not like to combine strong or very strong fluor with higher F+ colors so I understand your position. Stones with fluor tend to trade a little cheaper than their none/faint counterparts so that can work in your advantage if budget constraints are a major concern.

I bought my fiancee a super ideal from BGD and it has medium fluor. But it's an H VS2. I've never noticed any blue tints while outside or inside under different lighting conditions. BGD did send a little UV black light and obviously I can tell then.

Really, at the end of the day, it's just preference. If you don't like it or want it, then stay away from it would be my advice.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,389
Haha! Yes, the budget was reduced.

Thank you for all of your responses and links to diamonds! We looked at the 1.92 from B2C and 1.83 from BN that whitewave suggested. I don't know how to upload the video from B2C, but I have attached the image. He was very happy with both, and we'll be sending to our local vendor to see if he can get those diamonds for us.

https://www.b2cjewels.com/dd/11788978/round-diamond-D-color-VS2-Clarity?sku=11788978&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD11287080?refTab=DIAMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab&catalogView=true

In terms of color and clarity, significant other doesn't have the patience or desire to sift through diamonds and search for the the value in G/H/I-SI1's ,etc. D-F-VS2+ makes the process more efficient, on his end.

Then, factoring in the parameters I have learned from PS, ensures that the performance of the diamond is top notch.

So, a HPD, G/SI1, may be a project I will take on, on my own, in the future. :twisted2:
View attachment 657941
I understand and respect your SO's desires; however, when it comes to diamonds and especially those that get placed in engagement rings I think it's wise to take it slow. While you had a bad experience with one SI1, there are lots of glory stories where SI1's are completely eye clean and will give some VS2's a run for their money. Same thing can be said for color. Remember, G is still colorless and most people honestly cannot tell a difference between an F and G colored stone. Lastly, you have to consider the vendor. In particular you mentioned HPD/CBI who has a stellar reputation for great cut quality, above average colors for the reported color grade and hand selecting rough and cutting to minimize inclusions and ensure they get eye clean products. You will be hard pressed to find a guy more dedicated to making sure you have warm fuzzies before pulling the trigger than @Wink at HPD. He's an enthusiast and will shoot you straight even if it's detrimental to his sale. He is NOT driven by dollars, but rather the client's happiness. He is a very rare bird in today's world and one that makes this community better as such.

I did look back over HPD/CBI's inventory and just didn't see a good fit for the criteria you have listed. Perhaps they have something in the pipe line or can do a custom cut.

Regarding the B2C and BlueNile stones I would like to offer a few comments:

B2C 1.92ct D VS2 @ $Price Unknown - Says Out of Stock (did you reserve?)
https://b2cimages.s3.amazonaws.com/images/diamond/473/11788978/certificate/11788978.pdf

The stone has great proportions. Small 56 table, steep 35 crown (15.5% height) paired with shallow 40.6 pavilion is very complimentary and will throw lots of fire. Also 75 LGF's which will yield fat arrows. Additionally clarity plot looks very good for a VS2. Color is amazing.

I'd love to see the video. My suggestion would be to upload to YouTube and then hot link the YT web link back here.

I always encourage an idealscope and/or ASET image, if available. Also would love to see a H&A image to verify symmetry but again, it's based on availability and it seems advanced imaging is very hit & miss in the virtual inventory world.

BN 1.83ct F VS2 @ $20,202
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD11287080

Your link above didn't work properly and took me to the B2C stone, which is why I'm reposting.

This stone also has ideal proportions. Table is a little larger at 57, and here we are pairing a shallower 34 crown (14.5% height) with a steeper pavilion of 40.8. This stone also has 75 LGF's which will result in fatter arrows which many find desirable. Again the angles are complimentary and within ideal parameters. Again, I'd want to confirm by requesting for the same light return & symmetry images I mentioned above for the 1.92ct stone.

If you could compare the stones side by side, I think you will see two different personalities. A smaller table allows larger upper facets which can reflect more rainbow colored light and produce more fire. A high crown will also throw more fire than a shallow crown. Lastly, the 75 LGF's help produce bigger bolder rainbow flashes as opposed to the splintery flashes you get with 80 LGF's. So with a larger table and shallower crown we see slightly more white light return as opposed to rainbow light.

Consequently I believe this 1.83ct stone will provide a little more white light return, and the 1.92ct stone will have a little more rainbow light return (fire). Again, both are within ideal parameters and very acceptable and beautiful but will likely exhibit slightly different personalities. For me, I would lean more towards the 1.92ct as I prefer that personality better.

FYI, I should add that the methodology above is based on 2D proportions. CBI utilizes 3D technology to match angles, proportions, etc so they are able to produce the same fire and light return on all the diamonds they sell with disregard to these traditional 2D guidelines. This is sort of their magic sauce that makes their stones so special.
 

Wewechew

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
1,971
CBI...above average colors for the reported color grade
To expand on this to hopefully give a bit more clarity into CBI's color grades:

Per @LaylaR when I asked if the J I was considering purchasing was a high or low J:

"With CBI, they grade the diamonds in house and their color grader is one of the best in the world (she is used by the top auction houses, museums and the FBI, Interpool, etc. as an appraiser and advisor). So when they send a stone to the lab and they have internally graded it a J, if it comes back an I-- CBI will challenge that grade DOWN to a J. Why? Because their brand integrity means more to them than some gratuitous bump in color. Crafted by Infinity is the only cutter in the world that does this-- challenges the grades down. And their grader is more accurate than the labs. All of them.

So whether it is a high J or a low one-- it's confidently a J and when it's face up the high and low isn't going to be discernable."
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
30,807
@Wink[/USER] at HPD. He's an enthusiast and will shoot you straight even if it's detrimental to his sale. He is NOT driven by dollars, but rather the client's happiness. He is a very rare bird in today's world and one that makes this community better as such.
So true:!:...Wink is here to make friends not :$$):. :bigsmile:
 

CJMT2018

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
82
Sorry for the delay!

FF finally sent the diamond from B2C to our vendor to source for us. FF was convinced he and our vendor could find a comparable diamond within the parameters I specified, but after pushing him to just look into this specific one for purchase, he's finally done it! I'm checking B2C's site every day to see if the availability changes.

At the end of the day, even if I may be comfortable going lower in color or clarity, FF wants the “best” “on paper” as well as IRL. The B2C diamond satisfies both of our wants! Thank you so much for showing me this diamond, @whitewave.

@sledge, thank you for your comparison of the 2 diamonds (although, I believe the BN has been purchased). It is much easier for me to comprehend the performance in layman’s terms. Here's the video of the B2C diamond! Because we are not purchasing through B2C, we don’t have the ASET images.

 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,389
]@sledge, thank you for your comparison of the 2 diamonds (although, I believe the BN has been purchased). It is much easier for me to comprehend the performance in layman’s terms. Here's the video of the B2C diamond! Because we are not purchasing through B2C, we don’t have the ASET images.
You're very welcome, I'm glad I could help make it easier! I am excited for both you and cant wait to see pics of the actual stone on your hand!!
 

CJMT2018

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
82
Hi! Resurrecting this thread... While the vendor we are working with agrees that the B2C 1.92 is a great find, he wants us to look at the diamond he's sourced. I only have the GIA cert at the moment. Can you please vet and let me know your thoughts? I believe we are being quoted 25-26k for the diamond alone. I found it on one other site for 28k. Is there concern of durability with the cluster of imperfections right on the edge?

Please don't get on me about WF ACA and HPD CBI! I would love to go that route, but it's been a tough road convincing the FF to buy online! o_O:lol:

upload_2018-11-30_14-3-15.png
 

CJMT2018

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
82
I see that the 1.92 is superior in terms of performance and the price difference between the two is significant. It seems like it's no brainer that the 1.92 is better than the 2.0?

For me, I don't have much experience looking at diamonds IRL, but I think I would prefer a "fatter" diamond. Which means it is a touch spready and a touch shallow? Due to wanting a low set diamond and avoiding at all costs a narrow and tall head. I think that makes sense...

upload_2018-11-30_14-20-38.png
 

Attachments

kmoro

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
1,076
Yup I like the 1.92 better ... nice try, Mr.
Vendor, lol.
Once a person has been on Pricescope ... poor vendor.

Also, I think HCA takes a rather shallow stone to get excellent spread rating - so a very good still means excellent spread, imo I believe the risk of a shallow stone is light leakage under the table.

0.7 seems excelled - but I keep hearing that less than 1 is not so desirable for rings ... maybe someone knowledgeable can comment on that.

Good luck!
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
6,870
+1 to kmoro's comments.

No worries with a 'very good' Spread on the HCA if all others are Excellent and the score is under 2!

The 2.0 is shallow crown (so less coloured fire) but overly deep pavilion, hence the HCA nearing 3. I would stick with the 1.92.

The jeweller can, of course, charge more for hitting the magic 2.0 mark... but the point of a well-cut stone just under the 'magic' round numbers (or half numbers) is that it will have good brightness from edge-to-edge and look as big as the round-number stone, but it won't have the price tag to match!

If he has the 1.92 in hand, have you seen it yet? If so, what do you think of it?

FWIW I don't think you'd have any issues with a 35 crown versus a 32 crown - the difference must be 1mm or fractions of a mm, so it will make barely any difference with regards to how much diamond is standing proud of the setting. Also, don't forget that the overall depth of both the diamonds is very similar, so both will still be the same sort of overall height off your finger if the setting is adjusted to set both as low as they would go.
 

CJMT2018

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
82
Thank you both, @kmoro and @OoohShiny! Your advice is re-assuring and helpful. I am having a really tough time convincing FF to wire $20,000+ to an online retailer for a diamond he's not seen IRL. I have inquired with B2C if they'll ship to a store in our area for viewing, or what fee our vendor wants to charge in order for him to bring the stone in for us.

FF is meeting him tomorrow at 11am. I asked if I could tag along! Hopefully we can get this sorted tomorrow.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
6,870
I totally get the concerns over sending vast amounts of cash to people or companies on the internet - in some ways the internet seems a lot like the Wild West, in that there isn't really a 'Police Force' looking after everything, so opportunities are taken by those with nefarious intentions!

However, he can read the Returns policies on their website to be reassured (do check the process and costs of returning a stone), pay with a Credit Card (so he has an extra layer of protection), and of course, @Diamond_Hawk on here is the owner of B2C, so you have the opportunity for direct contact with him regarding any questions or concerns :)


I think it would be a great idea if you could compare the two stones under consideration side-by-side, but I appreciate there may be added fees by the jeweler to bring the 2.0ct in.

Either way, make sure to check out any stones you are looking at in a range of lights, not just the 'magic lights' that make frozen spit look amazing!

If there is a large window to stand by, place your hand over the stone to shield it from the store lights and look at how much edge-to-edge brightness there is with the flat lighting coming in through the window (assuming it's not bright sunlight beaming straight into the store lol).

Another way to look at edge-to-edge brightness is to hold the stone under the table, to shield it from the magic lights - make sure to tell the jeweller you are doing this before you do it, though, so he doesn't think you are trying to swap it or steal it!


It is difficult assessing diamonds 'in real life', though, especially when one is new to them (which I still consider myself to be!). I know how well my good lady's Crafted by Infinity stone performs, but the 'magic lights' in stores obfuscate the poor performance of many average stones by blinding you with sparkle created by using a multitude of point-source lights, and it is difficult to get a 'flat lighting' environment to undertake a more realistic assessment.

Don't forget - you don't have to commit to anything tomorrow. Choose in haste, repent at leisure, or however that phrase goes! lol

Also don't fall into the trap of 'today only' pricing tactics - that sort of thing sees me walk away. You can fire up your phone and use the PS search bar to see what good stones should be costing - this link should work (hopefully!) as I've used PS-recommended parameters in the Advanced Filters section, and selected only 'Excellent' HCA scores. You could play with the sliders in the Filters to look at a tighter/wider range of colour/clarity/carat/budget as required :)
https://www.pricescope.com/diamonds/search?vendor=-1&branded=None&inhouse=-1&shape=1&minprice=20000&maxprice=30000&mincarat=1.9&maxcarat=2.1&mindepth=60&maxdepth=62.3&mintable=53&maxtable=58&mincut=1&maxcut=2&mincolor=1&maxcolor=3&minclarity=2&maxclarity=8&minsymmetry=1&maxsymmetry=2&minpolish=1&maxpolish=2&min_cut_gia=1&max_cut_gia=6&min_cut_ags=1&max_cut_ags=7&minflourescence=1&maxflourescence=6&checkbox_panel1=,02,03&checkbox_panel2=&sort=&page=1&pageview=24&adv=true&days=100&cert_number=
 

kmoro

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
1,076
Thank you both, @kmoro and @OoohShiny! Your advice is re-assuring and helpful. I am having a really tough time convincing FF to wire $20,000+ to an online retailer for a diamond he's not seen IRL. I have inquired with B2C if they'll ship to a store in our area for viewing, or what fee our vendor wants to charge in order for him to bring the stone in for us.

FF is meeting him tomorrow at 11am. I asked if I could tag along! Hopefully we can get this sorted tomorrow.
Totally understand FF .... but probably most if not all of us on here have dealt with these vendors ... and had that fear at one time.

For what it’s worth, I believe all of the trusted vendors here can be trusted. Personally, I have received the best customer service of my life from a couple of these vendors - and I’m not exaggerating. I had a diamond appraised and it was exactly as described on the certificate. And really, if FF is not an expert, seeing it in person is no reassurance as he is likely not to understand the lighting ... a jewelry store lighting will make all diamonds look good ... and imo, the local jewelry store has more motivation to lead you astray, depending on the people and circumstances of course.

I’m not meaning to push anyone to do something they don’t want to do! Just a couple of things to consider ... it’s a lot of money and not mine, lol ...I would just like to see you get the most for your money.
 

Diamond_Hawk

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
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Apr 8, 2014
Messages
1,193
and of course, @Diamond_Hawk on here is the owner of B2C, so you have the opportunity for direct contact with him regarding any questions or concerns :)
Thanks OoohShiny - I really appreciate the mention. But, for the record, I am the Director of Consumer Education (aka PriceScope and consumer relations and education) for B2C. That said, I am happy to respond to any queries or questions and help resolve any concerns for people dealing with B2C- especially for the 'first time' internet jewelry purchasers.

I am here only to serve :)
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,634
The vendor stone is vastly inferior to the 1.92 from b2c. I totally get FFs concerns, but these aren't random people online. They are trusted buisiness with clear return policies. They wouldn't still have good reputations if they weren't trustworthy.
 

CJMT2018

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
82
We saw the 2ct this morning and I just wasn't impressed. It wasn't a disco ball, and in the absence of light, I did not find it to have any personality. In total, the diamond and setting would be just a touch over budget and I can't seem to find the justification in going over budget for this diamond. I have a few photos and a video, but I don't think it's worth sharing.

I have no doubt that these vendors are reputable and trustworthy! The very likely scenario is to have our vendor pull the diamond for us through his channels. B2C's partner that has the stone in hand doesn't have the tools to provide ASET or ideal scope images.

Does anyone mind sharing why a RB scoring below 1 on HCA may be less desirable for a ring?

I watched a brief video comparing 2 similar diamonds and the diamond that scored 1.0 on the HCA outperformed, very clearly, the diamond that scored 1.4 (
). Because I don't have ASET or ideal scope images to look at, and HCA "assumes a diamond is optically symmetrical," and I don't have confirmation that the 1.92ct is symmetrical- coupled with the <1 HCA and crystal right on the table, I am starting to get nervous asking FF to drop $21k on the diamond.

Here's the 1.92 picture and video I found online, for reference again: https://segoma.com/v.aspx?type=view&id=CAKY2ISR40
 

jp201845

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
279
We saw the 2ct this morning and I just wasn't impressed. It wasn't a disco ball, and in the absence of light, I did not find it to have any personality. In total, the diamond and setting would be just a touch over budget and I can't seem to find the justification in going over budget for this diamond. I have a few photos and a video, but I don't think it's worth sharing.

I have no doubt that these vendors are reputable and trustworthy! The very likely scenario is to have our vendor pull the diamond for us through his channels. B2C's partner that has the stone in hand doesn't have the tools to provide ASET or ideal scope images.

Does anyone mind sharing why a RB scoring below 1 on HCA may be less desirable for a ring?

I watched a brief video comparing 2 similar diamonds and the diamond that scored 1.0 on the HCA outperformed, very clearly, the diamond that scored 1.4 (
). Because I don't have ASET or ideal scope images to look at, and HCA "assumes a diamond is optically symmetrical," and I don't have confirmation that the 1.92ct is symmetrical- coupled with the <1 HCA and crystal right on the table, I am starting to get nervous asking FF to drop $21k on the diamond.

Here's the 1.92 picture and video I found online, for reference again: https://segoma.com/v.aspx?type=view&id=CAKY2ISR40
If you are having any doubts about spending money on a diamond with questionable performance I would look at the super ideal vendors recommended on PS
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
6,870
Thanks OoohShiny - I really appreciate the mention. But, for the record, I am the Director of Consumer Education (aka PriceScope and consumer relations and education) for B2C. That said, I am happy to respond to any queries or questions and help resolve any concerns for people dealing with B2C- especially for the 'first time' internet jewelry purchasers.

I am here only to serve :)
Ah, I didn't know that (as is clear from my post! :lol: lol) - thank you for your assistance! :)


re: Lower HCA scores being preferred for earrings and pendants rather than rings, I think the lower score indicates a shallower stone, which could mean too much obstruction (contrast) in the stone when face-on and quite close to the eyes viewing it, which could make it look darker than desirable.

FWIW my good lady's stone is HCA 0.8 (IIRC!) and I don't find it has any issues :)


EDIT: This thread is very useful!
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hca-score-under-1.240799/
 
Last edited:

kmoro

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
1,076
[QUOTE="OoohShiny, post: 4457828
EDIT: This thread is very useful!
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hca-score-under-1.240799/[/QUOTE]

From that thread, I found this:

by TreeScientist » May 14, 2018
“To answer your question as briefly as possible, the under 1 score is most likely due to the Pavilion Angle of 40.6. It seems that most combinations with a PA of 40.6 return an HCA score under 1 except for when the Crown Angle is 35.5. I believe this is due to the potential obstruction issues (meaning diamond going dark when viewing up close) that can be caused by lower pavilion angles at around 40.5 degrees, combined with the fact that GIA rounds the average of the pavilion angles to the nearest 0.2 degrees. Thus, a 40.6 pavilion angle could actually be closer to an average of 40.51 degrees, and some of the individual pavilion mains may dip below 40.5. This is why some prefer to select only GIA stones with 40.8 Pavilion Angles. Even so, I don't think that a 40.6 pavilion angle in a GIA graded diamond is really ever an issue unless it's combined with a lower crown angle as well (like a 40.6/34.0 combo).

The "HCA under 1 is best for pendants/earrings" argument is based on avoiding these shallow combos like 40.6/34.0 or something like 41.0/32.5 (which can be a very bright combo for earrings/pendants) for stones that will be viewed up close in rings. But not every stone with a HCA score under 1 will suffer from this obstruction. The 40.6/35.0 combo also typically scores under 1, but I've never seen a case on here where someone has reported obstruction in a well cut 40.6/35.0 diamond.

Furthermore, the stone you are considering is an AGS stone, which means that the 40.6 Pavilion is actually an average of 40.6 (or pretty darn close). And with an ACA stone, I wouldn't worry about what the HCA says in this case. A 40.6/34.9 combo is going to be beautiful. :)
 

CJMT2018

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
82
It’s 3am and I’m just waiting for the sun to come up so I can fawn over my ring some more! :kiss2:

Thank you to @whitewave for finding the diamond and thank you to @sledge for explaining the performance in a way that was very easy for me to digest!

The diamond is a freaking DISCO BALL!!! :dance: It is full of personality and the center of attention!

We are so incredibly thrilled with the diamond and the execution of the setting. :love:

3303F29C-0502-4F80-9255-679698E50466.jpeg F91A3736-3190-43ED-ADE5-685756F50484.jpeg B95D45B1-F0AA-4905-B589-1674B1CF309F.jpeg
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,389
You are very welcome, glad I could help! Also thank you for the kind words.

More importantly....wowsas, look at that sparkle bomb!! Totally happy for you! Congratulations!!!
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
6,870
Congratulations! That looks lovely :))
 

mrs-b

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
6,404
Btw, the only vendors in NYC we recommend, I think, are ID jewelry and Diamonds by Lauren. Someone correct me if I am missing someone.
@whitewave -

I know this info is irrelevant now for this particular poster, but just for your own info - Good Old Gold should never be overlooked for diamonds. And they have a very nice brick and mortar set up with highly skilled sales people.
 

kmoro

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
1,076
@whitewave -

I know this info is irrelevant now for this particular poster, but just for your own info - Good Old Gold should never be overlooked for diamonds. And they have a very nice brick and mortar set up with highly skilled sales people.
Isn’t JA in NYC as well ?
 
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