Tell me about your Ideal/Super Ideal diamonds

[the_mother_thing]

Thought this view might be easier to compare the ES (top row) & ACA (bottom row) images.

 

[Slickk]

@the_mother_thing Thank you so much for starting this thread. Very informative for me as well as my DS will be purchasing a diamond soon, so I'm following very closely the differences.
So exciting for you to be able to add an ideal RB to your already beautiful "repertoire.." What a guy!

 

[the_mother_thing]

Threads like this kill me. It's making me want another H&A diamond!!!!

Please, live vicariously through my wallet instead, and I promise to shower you with tons of pictures and videos if we nail a winner here!

 

[gm89uk]

The only defect I can see in this ES is the one area of crown only digging (always a bad thing), but isolated one small area. It's probably visually insignificant unless you were trained and had a long time in a variety of lighting to compare the two.

Best way is to ask WF if the ES is visually inferior as they can compare both stones.

For some people it might bother them having an ASET like that, particularly if they are paying a premium for H&A. If performance is your priority, it looks like a great compromise.

 

[the_mother_thing]

The only defect I can see in this ES is the one area of crown only digging (always a bad thing), but isolated one small area. It's probably visually insignificant unless you were trained and had a long time in a variety of lighting to compare the two.

Best way is to ask WF if the ES is visually inferior as they can compare both stones.

For some people it might bother them having an ASET like that, particularly if they are paying a premium for H&A. If performance is your priority, it looks like a great compromise.

THANK YOU for chiming in ... can you point out what you mean by the ‘crown only digging’? I’m not familiar with the term/reference to know what that is/equates to.

Also, what is it about the ASET that you think would bother some? I haven’t studied a bunch of them, but was reviewing it against this to get an idea of if it seemed like a good choice: https://www.pricescope.com/journal/what-aset-reveals-ideal-scope-does-not

 

[the_mother_thing]

I’ve reserved the diamond until Monday when the diamond expert/sales staff are back in. The person I did speak to (to put the diamond on hold) said the only thing she sees that would have kicked it out of ACA specs is the med-blue fluorescence, which - so long as it doesn’t impact performance (hazy/cloudy) - I’m not afraid of. I’ve read it actually can help a diamond face up whiter, and I noted in looking at the two still images that the K actually looked whiter (to me) than the J/ACA. When comparing the two videos side by side, I see no discernible difference in color.

In the mean time, here is the one I’m considering: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3949677.htm

And here is the ACA I’m comparing it to: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3947709.htm

Thoughts (now that you can view all specs)?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think that ES is fine. It's still in the top tier of diamond cut, just not as perfect as ACA. Do I think you could see the difference in real life viewing, probably not. But I'll be honest, I would not go with K in a modern cut stone.

I'd go with this one over the K assuming it's truly eyeclean. Better ASET, too.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3826685.htm

or this if you want VS2

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3947700.htm

 

[the_mother_thing]

I think that ES is fine. It's still in the top tier of diamond cut, just not as perfect as ACA. Do I think you could see the difference in real life viewing, probably not. But I'll be honest, I would not go with K in a modern cut stone.

I'd go with this one over the K assuming it's truly eyeclean. Better ASET, too.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3826685.htm

or this if you want VS2

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3947700.htm

Thanks so much, DS! Both of the ones you posted are beautiful diamonds, and do appear to have better ASETS given the K’s “8:00 green light”, but the 1.42 J has inclusions right on/under the table (whereas the K only has a couple minor ones near the girdle where they’d likely be hidden by the setting). And the 1.38 J is $2K+ than the K, but does appear whiter in the picture, though I’m not sure if that is because it IS a whiter-facing J, or if it’s just the picture. But nevertheless, that’s $2K more that I’m not sure my mind & eyes would feel was justified. I think my order of priority here would be: 1) Cut 2) Cost 3) Clarity/Carat (tied); and 4) Color.

For me, color is last for a few reasons (all of which of course could be tossed out the window if/when I see the diamond in person - I will ask the SA on Monday if she thinks it’s a high or low K in person). But I’m really not color sensitive, and actually like some tint in a diamond vs a stark ‘white’; I think that’s just my preference given my skin tone and how they look to my eyes. My 3 stone (posted earlier) has J/Ks, and I cannot discern the difference - my jeweler was surprised when I showed it to him as well - could be a perk of them having great cut, which this K also has. My OEC is an M, and I’m fine with what I see there, and it has faint flouro - albeit OECs & RBs are apples and oranges. I took a spin through a few of the “show me” threads with lower color diamonds and read commentary about them, especially compared to other diamonds PSers had. This one thread was super helpful to me and made me feel even more comfortable considering a K - RB: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/photographic-death-match-f-versus-k.116295/

So for those reasons - in this case for this particular diamond, I feel like I may be fine with it. And honestly, yes - there is a part of me that feels like there is a bit of a deal to be had with it (which I’m not gonna lie - is very attractive as well) to get near-ideal specs for less than ideal pricing, and that appeases my frugal side.
This kinda feels reminiscent of when I bought my alexandrite a few years back ... on paper, it wasn’t “ideal”, but in hand, it’s just gorgeous! I think part of me is hoping this one may turn out the same - if for no one else but me.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

As long as you like it, that's all that matters! Once you go below J, the stones are going to be slightly more champagne than white. It might be less noticeable set in platinum prongs but a yellow or rose gold setting. All H&A stones will be beautiful. It's just that they'll appear brighter in higher colors, and they'll show more color in environments that add tint such as in a car with tinted windows. As long as those things aren't issues for you, then that's good!

 

[the_mother_thing]

@diamondseeker2006 Thank you! I am used to the ‘moodiness’ aspect of my OEC, so I’m pretty sure (if it checks out otherwise), I’ll be fine with it’s environmental swings.

Setting-wise, I’m thinking WF’s keystone half-bezel in 18K WG (unplated) so it matches my wedding band color-wise. I LOVE a nice semi-bezel, and being able to see the pavilion, and almost went with a custom one I sketched out for my e-ring, but changed my mind at the last minute.

 

[marcy]

I think you have some great options and selections there. While I don't have an ES I did a lot of research and reading here on PS when i was looking and they are very nice diamonds too. It sounds like you have someone you are working with already. I worked with Brittany and would recommend her without hesitation. I had Brittany pull the diamonds I was considering and had her compare them giving me her feedback. They can send you comparison images and videos and I completely trusted her opinion. How exciting for you!

 

[Dancing Fire]

And below is the most comparable ACA I could find to the diamond above specs-wise; the only difference I see is this one is 1 color grade higher and .01ctw bigger - neither of which I think my eyes would discern the difference. There is a $2800 price difference. I’m NOT saying it’s not worth it; I just don’t know enough to discern the difference, and hope someone here CAN show me because that’s what I hope to understand. Because if that one issue in the above-stone’s ASET is it, then to me, this is a no-brainer. But I don’t know what I don’t know.

I think you have the image reversed? the first pics is ACA and the bottom is ES?..

 

[Dancing Fire]

In the mean time, here is the one I’m considering: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3949677.htm

And here is the ACA I’m comparing it to: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3947709.htm

Thoughts (now that you can view all specs)?

TBH, neither! ...IMO the 2nd stone doesn't belong in the ACA category. The hearts are off.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Thought this view might be easier to compare the ES (top row) & ACA (bottom row) images.

What are the specs on these two stones?

 

[the_mother_thing]

I think you have the image reversed? the first pics is ACA and the bottom is ES?..

Nope .... The first group I posted was the ES & the second (that you quoted) is the ACA. I’ve since posted links to both diamonds as well.

What are the specs on these two stones?

Those are the same two diamonds - the top row is the ES and the bottom was the ACA that I was comparing it to specs-wise. The ACA wasn’t one I actually had in my “originally consider” list. Rather, when I ran the search to try and find an ACA to see how far off from ACA specs the ES might be, that one came up, and - to me - it looked almost like it could be a twin ... but again, keep in mind, I am NOT the RB guru around these parts. I just know what my eyes (and wallet) like.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I like your John Adams quote. He was quite right.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Those are the same two diamonds - the top row is the ES and the bottom was the ACA that I was comparing it to specs-wise. The ACA wasn’t one I actually had in my “originally consider” list.

$2800 difference? ...in this case I'd pick the ES stone.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I think you have some great options and selections there. While I don't have an ES I did a lot of research and reading here on PS when i was looking and they are very nice diamonds too. It sounds like you have someone you are working with already. I worked with Brittany and would recommend her without hesitation. I had Brittany pull the diamonds I was considering and had her compare them giving me her feedback. They can send you comparison images and videos and I completely trusted her opinion. How exciting for you!

Thank you, Marcy! I didn’t realize WF was closed on weekends, so I guess they have reps who take calls over the weekend. She was able to put the diamond on hold for me until Monday when the SAs are back. I’m hoping they can do the same for me - look at both and provide feedback of what they see in person. If it “duds out”, oh well. But if it is a great performer and just got the ACA-miss b/c of the medium blue flouro, I’ll be pretty happy to have stumbled upon it, I think.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I like your John Adams quote. He was quite right.

Indeed! I love the John Adams series HBO did; not sure if you ever saw it. I have it on Blu-Ray, and usually watch it twice/year.

$2800 difference? ...in this case I'd pick the ES stone.

Yes, that’s what I was thinking ... considering the only differences appear to be the flouro, that mark on the ASET which is probably prong-able, and the one-color grade ... all of which I KNOW my eyes would never really discern, and I consider reasonable compromises for the $2800 price difference. It IS still an ideal cut diamond, after all. Thank you!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

You know, I don't think I have seen it, and I love historical dramas. We are watching The Crown on Netflix now. I can get John Adams on Amazon Prime and have saved it to my watch list! Thanks for the recommendation!

 

[marcy]

The Mother Thing, I just compared the stats on that ES to my ACA and they are so close to mine it's not worth mentioning. Also, I am a big fan of florescence. I bought a UV light from Amazon and had fun searching my jewelry box for florescent stones. I have an EC RHR that is med blue.

 

[SimoneDi]

Just dropping in to say that I also prefer the ES stone! Fluorescence is a plus in this case and will definitely help the color

 

[the_mother_thing]

You know, I don't think I have seen it, and I love historical dramas. We are watching The Crown on Netflix now. I can get John Adams on Amazon Prime and have saved it to my watch list! Thanks for the recommendation!

Then you will likely really enjoy it! It goes through the entire history of declaring our independence from England, drafting of the Declaration, etc. I love historical series’ when I have a rainy weekend with no plans and a ton of popcorn. Plus, watching them makes me really appreciate just how good we have it today compared to ‘back then’. I’ll be curious to know what you think after you see it.

The Mother Thing, I just compared the stats on that ES to my ACA and they are so close to mine it's not worth mentioning. Also, I am a big fan of florescence. I bought a UV light from Amazon and had fun searching my jewelry box for florescent stones. I have an EC RHR that is med blue.

Thank you so much! That’s more reassurance that I might have a winner, and that’s exactly why I pulled up ACA stones after finding it ... to see how it compared spec-wise to them. I’d love to see a pic of your ED with flouro, or the link to your SMTB thread if you don’t mind.

Just dropping in to say that I also prefer the ES stone! Fluorescence is a plus in this case and will definitely help the color

Thank you! That was my thought about the flouro as well, and from what I gather from the WF associate I spoke to, that seems to be the only thing that knocked it out of ACA-specs. I’m really rather excited to talk with WF on Monday and hear what they have to say about it, and (hopefully) place the order to see it for myself.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Funny how quick this thread went from “I’m thinking about dipping my toes in ...” to picking one out and possibly placing an order 3 days later.

 

[marcy]

Here is the thread to the EC diamond ring. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/upgraded-ec.218302/

 

[the_mother_thing]

@marcy Your EC is really very stunning! And what a find considering you went in for sapphires!!

 

[TweetyBird23]

I am tossing around the idea of mayyyybe dipping my toe into the ideal/super ideal pool. I don’t have a budget or timeline in mind yet ... just doing some ‘due diligence’ for now to help me decide if - for me - it’d be worthwhile. I’d probably be looking at something around the 1-1.25 ct mark. It’s not something I’d likely be upgrading because while I love looking at big beautiful diamonds, anything over 1.5ct just isn’t really practical for my lifestyle.

I’ve never seen an ideal or super ideal diamond in person, but the usual white flashes in RB diamonds never really did anything for me (but to be fair, I probably was just not seeing well cut RBs). I like colorful flashes (thus why I love OECs). But the colorful flashes and fire in the videos I’ve seen on the PS vendors’ sites are kinda giving me the itch since my OEC is more pastels and some days I kinda want some primary color flashes.

Performance: I’m curious how they perform in every day lighting. Do they put out the fireworks flashes in normal indoor lighting like I see in some of the videos online? What about outdoors/natural daylight? Or is that only seen really in LED lighting? Do you need to hit a certain size to be able to appreciate the visual difference between an ideal/super ideal vs. a ‘standard’ XXX? If so, what is that size, do you think?

Inclusions: I browsed a few ACAs just to see what is out there, pricing, etc., and I was curious about something I saw on one that was a VS2, but has a ‘blotch’ of small inclusions toward the center under the table (noted on the AGS report as crystal, cloud & feather with additional clouds, surface & internal graining not shown on the plot). Does the brilliance/fire of an ideal/super ideal usually disguise any small/minor inclusions - such as this example - or are they still visible close-up in normal lighting in about a 1 ct sone? I could see them in the pic & video, but are the pics/videos so magnified that I’d probably not see something like that in normal viewing? I’m *thinking* I wouldn’t see them, as my OEC is about 7mm, an SI1 and has the same inclusions (but not graining), and I can’t see them in my diamond unless I get right up on the table with my eye.

Color: I’m not color sensitive, so I think that I would probably be comfortable going down to a J/K to get a little more spread. How noticeable is the body color from the side in an ideal/super ideal cut? When viewing ACAs, the background video is black so it’s hard to tell how noticeable the color is from that angle, but I see a lot of rainbows from the side, which I kinda love.

I don’t know what I don’t know, so if you have/had one, please feel free to share your perspective on the above questions, what it is you love about it at it’s best as well as what (if anything) you dislike about it at it’s ‘worst’ (if there is such a thing). Of course, please feel free to post pictures and videos of your diamond performance (and specs) if you don’t mind. I am a visual person and will ultimately (and literally) need to see the difference to decide if I want to take the plunge.

Thanks - in advance - if you made it through all that!

Thank you for asking these questions. I am in the process of getting an ACA and would love to know these things myself.

 

[marcy]

Thank you The Mother Thing. I really like it. I am very anxious to see what you get.

 

[december-fire]

Love this thread!

You've asked great questions, listened to the responses, and considered everything in terms of your own priorities! Wonderful

I'm hoping that the stone you've got on hold is a perfect match for you!
I'm so excited for you!

 

[the_mother_thing]

Love this thread!

You've asked great questions, listened to the responses, and considered everything in terms of your own priorities! Wonderful

I'm hoping that the stone you've got on hold is a perfect match for you!
I'm so excited for you!

Thanks so much! I hope so as well, but I’m also keeping in mind to keep my expectations realistic to/in line with my specs & priorities.

I so appreciate ALL of the feedback provided by everyone who has chimed in, and hope more do as well ... especially with any specific questions I should be sure to ask the WF SA on Monday to further vet the diamond before pulling the trigger. Obviously feedback on a visual comparison between the two stones; confirm the flouro doesn’t negatively impact the performance; whether the color appears to be a high/medium/low K and how - with the flouro - it faces up compared to the J (I expect some tint from the side & that is ok for me) ... what else?